What's so good about FFXIV?

[KrayZ33]

Not regarding classes. Male Hrothgar only. Male furry-bunnies only added recently i think.

Both of these races were technically "only added recently" as well, with Shadowbringers. So there is a single race that will get the female version later anyway, as they already confirmed it.

[TheRevenantHero]

Not regarding classes. Male Hrothgar only. Male furry-bunnies only added recently i think.

Ok but that doesn't impact gameplay at all. Do you also criticize WoW when certain armor looks like a bikini on female models but completely covers the torso of a male model in the same exact armor piece?

[VinceVega]

Both of them were technically "only added recently" as well. So there is a single race that will get the female version later anyway.

Meh. Havent played since mid 2020. Only follow news a little bit. So they are back in. whoop di dooo^^ Just ignore that point then.

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Ok but that doesn't impact gameplay at all. Do you also criticize WoW when certain armor looks like a bikini on female models but completely covers the torso of a male model in the same exact armor piece?

Yes i do/did. The look of a game (armor, freedom of choice) is important. Otherwise all games would look like dwarf fortress (great game with ascii graphics)

[TheRevenantHero]

Meh. Havent played since mid 2020. Only follow news a little bit. So they are back in. whoop di dooo^^ Just ignore that point then.

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Yes i do/did. The look of a game (armor, freedom of choice) is important. Otherwise all games would look like dwarf fortress (great game with ascii graphics)

There are lore reasons for the genderlocks on Hrothgar and Viera. I don't entirely agree with it but it's not gamebreaking. The rest of the game is fine. I personally don't see it as a negative aspect but I guess I can see why others would. And as someone else pointed out, Viera are getting male options in the next expansion.

[KrayZ33]

Meh. Havent played since mid 2020. Only follow news a little bit. So they are back in. whoop di dooo^^ Just ignore that point then.

No you are technically right - right *now* in this minute, there are genderlocked races. I totally confused it with classes because I didn't even think about races being genderlocked.
It's just that these 2 races are a recent addition themselves, and the other gender for one gets added at Endwalker release and the other a bit later, or maybe a lot later, but it will get added and is already confirmed (so it's not like they said "yeah, maaaaybe we add it if we feel like it, maybe, probably, we are looking into it" or anything)

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Everything you just said about FFXIV is wrong and I'm convinced you've never played the game. The least amount of people I've encountered in an out of the way zone was a dozen. so your "proper presence in the world and playing mostly with 3-7 other people" comment is an outright lie.

Rogalicus is correct in his assessment.

If you compare FFXIV as a JRPG to prior FF games and to other JRPGs, then FFXIV has very lacking customization. You can't do fancy character building where you acquire different skills to make some ridiculously awesome builds or team comps. If you compare FFXIV to other MMOs, then FFXIV is easily beaten by FFXI and WoW. In FFXI you could combo different classes and items to make really cool, unintended builds like Ninja tanking (by using shadow clones). And in WoW you can do straight up more fun stuff, like Priests mind controlling enemies and getting to use their cool abilities or mind controlling them off cliffs, or Shamans being able to see half way across the continents, or Hunters being able to tame almost any beast in the game, or Warlocks being able to summon hundreds of demons and solo a world boss. Hell, FFXIV has rogues/Ninjas that can stealth, but stealth is absolutely useless in FFXIV as you can't stealth past enemies in dungeons or raids, nor can you pop in and out of stealth during combat. Summons in FFXI felt truly powerful, but in FFXIV you forget they even exist because they hit like a wet noodle. FFXIV combat and customization is very basic.

probably the most oversensitive crowd you will ever see in a game. This is the game equivalent of a safe space. You cannot tell someone if they play like shit. I can do zero damage and noone is allowed to tell me or i can report them. Like... wtf?

Yeah the cult of FFXIV is pretty bad. I'm not sure if it's worse than the cult of Nintendo.

I tried to join a group and they asked me if i have played another MMO in the last month. I said yes but i cancelled my subs and they did not want me anymore.

Holy crap that is a first

There are lore reasons for the genderlocks on Hrothgar and Viera.

I don't recall there being a lore reason for female Hrothgar. Male Viera had the lore reason being that they're actually these super badasses who are silently dealing with threats you don't even know about and are secretly guarding the forest from the shadows, so the female Viera were the only ones who were visible out and about doing normal things. AFAIK Hrothgar women in lore are just like the females of other races: out and about doing normal things. This may have been why we never got to visit any civilian settlements in Bozja, because without a female Hrothgar model there would be an obvious lack of female Hrothgar NPCs (but then again Shadowbringers already had glaring problems with the lack of post-launch content, and we didn't even get to see the capital city of Werlyt despite how us going there was hyped up for the entire storyline).

As for genderlocks, I am going to take the contrarian position and say I like them. I think genderlocks wind up bringing more variety to a game, not less, as the devs wind up creating new designs that fill untapped niches that they otherwise wouldn't have done had the devs been mandated to make sure everyone can do everything and wear everything. Take Black Desert, for example: if genderlocks weren't a thing, you wouldn't get unique stuff like giants or the Shai, and every player would look like some generic young woman/bishounen man and you wouldn't get more rugged looking men or older looking women, because those aren't as popular as the bishounen men and young women looks.

Graeham has touched upon this before, but you have this problem right now in FFXIV, where you hardly ever get male exclusive gear that looks really great on guys, because all gear has to now be designed to be wearable by everyone, so you get gear that just looks okay, not great. Similarly, the hairstyles we get now are all mid length haircuts that can be used by men and women. You don't get really short, masculine hair for the guys, or really long, feminine hair for girls.

[Echo of Soul]

Not regarding classes. Male Hrothgar only. Male furry-bunnies only added recently i think.

They don't have the same resources as WoW does. They could only deliver half of each race with the other halves to come later.

[vallixas]

There's a lot of passive aggressiveness going around concerning FFXIV mainly due to some of the bigger content creators exodus, and them being very vocal and critical about WoW, but also i've noticed from some other MMO fans who feel their favored mmo is the one that deserves the current support. If those mmos provided quality, they would get that treatment, it's as simple as that. FFXIV is not the first mmo these content creators have tried. Most of them have played loads of them, they just didn't like them. There is no "cult", I feel like people don't like people disagreeing with them. Just because you see a problem with something someone else doesn't see, doesn't make them a cultist. For example there is no comparing FFXI to XIV, they are completely different games, and the way FFXI is would never work in XIV's model. There is a reason Summoner can't just sit in place and use summons in FFXIV. You'd have to change the very structure of XIV from the fast paced mechanic heavy theme park MMO that it is now to actually have a functioning FFXI summoner. They are not the same MMOs and FFXI classes do not fit XIV's mold. Square have found ways (still are finding apparently) to make SMN be a summoner and still fit in XIV, the different trances was a brilliant idea, having different summons come out and change your actions is a GREAT idea (if they double down on it even further from phoenix) and I prefer that than spamming a bunch of clones to attack a boss for me. That's not engaging, it's boring, and certainly does not fit XIV's model of fast paced rotation heavy combat. THAT feels more badass than having minions do everything for me as with the Warlock. So it's subjective.

I'm actually on the team of wanting to get rid of the Egi's entirely, and just have the Summoner doing different Summon rotations akin to the phoenix where the summon would change the summoners abilities. That's engaging for me, and THAT fits into XIV pretty well. Damn the pets, i'm all in on the different Demi stands that come out, it's what SMN should have been since ARR.

They don't have the same resources as WoW does. They could only deliver half of each race with the other halves to come later.

That makes zero sense when you take into account WoW has been out longer and yet FFXIV holds the record for most original music compositions in a game. That's right, FFXIV in less expansions than WoW, surpassed it in original pieces. Music cost money, lots of it, almost as much as voice acting. If they can surpass a game older than them with more expansions than them in raw compositions, providSo that's nonsense lol

[Jazzhands]

That makes zero sense when you take into account WoW has been out longer and yet FFXIV holds the record for most original music compositions in a game. That's right, FFXIV in less expansions than WoW, surpassed it in original pieces. So that's nonsense lol

Surpassing them in a single aspect doesn't immediately mean they have the same amount of resources for everything. Music has always been a massive part of Final Fantasy in general, no one cares about WoW music. FF14 likely puts more resources into music than WoW, but it definitely doesn't have the over all resources that WoW does.

[Dastreus]

The story is "incredible"...

Trying to imply it's not? If you've at least finished ARR and HW, you'd be saying otherwise. Especially after Shadowbringers.

[Graeham]

I haven't played WoW in years, but still listen to some of the music. So I wouldn't say 'nobody cares' about it.

That aside, FFXIV seems to suffer from questionable resource distribution. We're constantly told that we can't have X, Y or Z and then the development team bend over backwards to commit to whatever a vocal minority of the FFXIV happen to be complaining about on Twitter at any given time.

Which, in itself, is a bizarre stance for a Japanese company to be taking. There's a considerable amount of constructive feedback posted over on the official forums and yet so little of it seems to be reaching the development team. For example, there's always been a healthy demand for masculine hairstyles for male characters and yet Yoshi-P expressed surprise in an interview that people wanted facial hair as an option.

[vallixas]

Surpassing them in a single aspect doesn't immediately mean they have the same amount of resources for everything. Music has always been a massive part of Final Fantasy in general, no one cares about WoW music. FF14 likely puts more resources into music than WoW, but it definitely doesn't have the over all resources that WoW does.

Never said that, but if they can put resources into outperforming a game from 2004 in less expansions while being consistent on their patches (pre-covid), a different gender of a race doesn't seem to pose much of an issue seeing how they have done more with less before. Music cost money, they have a lot of it, day and night cycles of it. That's not even taking into account they have to do voice acting in two different languages. We're in Shadowbringers, and crafters/gatherers still have content, they still matter. Side classes like that have all but been abandoned in MMO's actually struggling with resources (lol swtor) and others never even had them to begin with much less stories written for them or entire instanced areas created for them (eso). Most of these other mmos can't even give us a new class per expansion and yet Square gives us atleast 2 every one. So resources are not the problem here. They did not intend to create them, they only caved due to demands.

[VinceVega]

They don't have the same resources as WoW does. They could only deliver half of each race with the other halves to come later.

yeeeaaaahh.... i did not believe that whole "ressource" excuse for one second^^

FF14 was allready huge back when they started developing it. Bigger than most other MMOs save for wow at least.

[Echo of Soul]

yeeeaaaahh.... i did not believe that whole "ressource" excuse for one second^^

FF14 was allready huge back when they started developing it. Bigger than most other MMOs save for wow at least.

The team themselves have stated that they don't have anywhere near the budget that WoW does.

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That makes zero sense when you take into account WoW has been out longer and yet FFXIV holds the record for most original music compositions in a game. That's right, FFXIV in less expansions than WoW, surpassed it in original pieces. Music cost money, lots of it, almost as much as voice acting. If they can surpass a game older than them with more expansions than them in raw compositions, providSo that's nonsense lol

I don't think you'd get particularly good results if you put the sound designers on designing character models tbh.

[Katchii]

That makes zero sense when you take into account WoW has been out longer and yet FFXIV holds the record for most original music compositions in a game. That's right, FFXIV in less expansions than WoW, surpassed it in original pieces. Music cost money, lots of it, almost as much as voice acting. If they can surpass a game older than them with more expansions than them in raw compositions, providSo that's nonsense lol

Masayoshi Soken, the music guy for FFXIV, is a savant. He's done some amazing work with not many resources sometimes. Music doesn't HAVE to cost a lot of money if you have people who are trained and know how to do it all themselves and just...make shit up, lol.

See this interview for a few examples. https://twinfinite.net/2020/08/final...sayoshi-soken/

He uses a trash can in his office as a bass drum sound in one of the songs, and an empty cup noodle cup filled with pills and stuff as the maraca sound in the Costa Del Sol theme.

And as @Jazzhands already stated, FFXIV as a whole doesn't have the amount of resources WoW has.

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Never said that, but if they can put resources into outperforming a game from 2004 in less expansions while being consistent on their patches (pre-covid), a different gender of a race doesn't seem to pose much of an issue seeing how they have done more with less before. Music cost money, they have a lot of it, day and night cycles of it. That's not even taking into account they have to do voice acting in two different languages. We're in Shadowbringers, and crafters/gatherers still have content, they still matter. Side classes like that have all but been abandoned in MMO's actually struggling with resources (lol swtor) and others never even had them to begin with much less stories written for them or entire instanced areas created for them (eso). Most of these other mmos can't even give us a new class per expansion and yet Square gives us atleast 2 every one. So resources are not the problem here. They did not intend to create them, they only caved due to demands.

Part of the challenge is that in order for FFXIV to keep up with it's pretty rigorous patch schedules is that they have to focus on that content at the expense of pretty much everything else. They purposely choose and dedicate resources for all of the things you're talking about and they use them quite effectively. But that doesn't mean they have infinite resources that can tackle anything. They've already allotted their resources according to their plan and can't deviate from it without impacting everything else.

If anything, this just shows how much more effective FFXIV is at project and resource management than WoW who seemingly does the same amount, or less, with more resources.

You're likely right about the gender locked races and the fact that they caved to get the other genders of them in-game. But the reason those new genders were delayed by an entire expansion is because they couldn't dedicate the resources to them prior to when they did. They accounted for the player feedback and made them part of the plan for the new expansion.

[Wrecktangle]

I have a question about this - I'm personally not interested in it, so I never really tried to get one:
But is it really difficult to get a house? Because literally *all* the guys and girls I play this game with (and other games) and wanted one, have a house (not an apartment inside a guild building or whatever, but a house on their own)
The last two who decided to get one didn't even have to "line up" or anything and got the house they wanted as well.
At least one of them got the actual house he wanted, didn't even bother to ask the other one tbh.

I read this often, but it's so alien to me that I start to question myself if it's just people exaggerating

It's not super hard to get A house. It's near impossible to get the house you WANT. Server population and housing distract has a lot to do with it too.

Did you not get your chocobo or attune to aetherite until 50? Even in the zones youre just walking theres teleports to the quest givers or near them.

Honestly, kinda irrelevant to the point. While true, doesn't mean that the first 50 levels aren't a lot of pointless back and forths, especially with linkpearls existing.

Sure, lets forget the short cooldown defensives such as sheltron, blackest night and the warrior and Gnb ones i forget the name. They exist. They are active mitigation.

But, perhaps what you mean is you want a buff to upkeep? That is tanking according to you, and that is a reductive view of tanking.

Also, tanking is a dps if you consider non FF dps. There is a lot more going on in FF dps and tank is a lot simpler in comparison. But, alas, bringing pre-conceptions from other mmo's ends in that.

I'd honestly love more involved tanking. Faster resource generation, faster incoming damage, and a lot more oGCDs to help mitigate it dynamically (not if then statements).

Sheltron and it's counterparts are super binary boring abilities for the most part. Sheltron in particular being a significantly larger offender and may as well not even have a gauge cost with how irrelevant it is.

WoW is Mythic BRF, FFXIV is Ulduar. Someone will get the comparison

Never thought of it this way, but surprisingly accurate.

Also hard disagree on thinking classes are just there to hit potency. If you had of played something at endgame, I don't see how you could come to that conclusion. All the jobs I've played are very thematically well done, none really playing like any other. If you find them uninteresting, well that's your opinion.

I've played a lot at end game and I agree most jobs are just potency bots, but that's the encounter design paradigm that causes this, not the jobs IMO.

Ok but that doesn't impact gameplay at all. Do you also criticize WoW when certain armor looks like a bikini on female models but completely covers the torso of a male model in the same exact armor piece?

Yes I do.

They don't have the same resources as WoW does. They could only deliver half of each race with the other halves to come later.

We don't know that for sure, and I'd be genuinely surprised if Yoshi P was intimately aware of the WoW teams budget. All we do know is that FF14 and WoW both have massive dev teams similar in size, with FF14 actually having more devs at some points in the cycle.

Surpassing them in a single aspect doesn't immediately mean they have the same amount of resources for everything. Music has always been a massive part of Final Fantasy in general, no one cares about WoW music. FF14 likely puts more resources into music than WoW, but it definitely doesn't have the over all resources that WoW does.

How do you know this so matter of a fact though? It's not public information. All we do know is that FF14 and WoW both have massive dev teams similar in size, with FF14 actually having more devs at some points in the cycle.

[Schmittay]

I'm not even doubting current 'MMO' players want game equivalent of comfort food that goes out of its' way to not bother them with absurd concepts like having to think about anything or having to travel anywhere.

Jobs have no utility (+% damage is not utility), no synergy, no gameplay variety because it's all hard to balance and FFXIV designers don't like to work hard.

FFXIV devs are like bad algorithm. They found local maxima and are content with it without being aware there is global maximum somewhere else, if they were eager to risk.

Yeh just hard disagree. I've played endgame and it doesn't match your view. At all. I would say it's just your opinion, but I'd venture further and say you're just outright wrong. The jobs I've played felt like their job description. I don't give a crap about the mathematical component, but how it feels.

You obviously have a predetermined outlook, and you don't go into specific details, rather very general thoughts that you apply to the whole game, which is simply wrong.

You don't like it, we get it. Thanks for your opinion, what are you still doing here?

[Lawlhero]

FFXIV has better slutmog. Thats about where my extensive knowledge in these games start and end.

[Daffan]

During one of the fan fests someone asked the dev if they could add a feature for i think color blind people, it wasnt huge but they said yes. Two weeks later it was added. Several other instances including the aoe indicators, mechanics, and even class design has been changed based on player feedback. Even males being able to now wear previously female only items was changed becausd of feedback.

I was talking about internal problems, like the time Yoshi-P raged at his whole staff saying KMS in 2017 during that live stream lmao.

[Schmittay]

I was talking about internal problems, like the time Yoshi-P raged at his whole staff saying KMS in 2017 during that live stream lmao.

I just rewatched it. Talk about overblown. Dude was upset, sure, but everyone around him was laughing and in high spirits. WTF are you talking about? To class that as "internal problems" is mind boggling.