About Galakrond and Deathwing

[darkoms]

Because it could rise him into a new being totally different.

In life he was ever growing consuming things and becoming stronger, as an undead he could still retain that characteristic and multiple how many times his strength and his potential.

How??? Why is he so special?

The Lich King grew stronger the more undead he controlled. It was the same with Galakrond. How will he continue to grow stronger if he himself is under the control of the Lich King and has no undead of his own? Also, how will it grow if Deathwing knows about it? Think he won't notice and just let him grow? Not to mention the fact that you have not even brought a single proof that he can even reach the level of Deathwing. For some reason, it seems to me that reaching the level of the Titan buff is not so easy.

[Syegfryed]

How??? Why is he so special?.

How? did you miss his portray in the books? dude was devouring dragons and raising then as undead of his body

if that is not special nothing it is.

Also "titan buff" is just overated, didn't stop then from dying or getting killed

[darkoms]

How? did you miss his portray in the books? dude was devouring dragons and raising then as undead of his body

if that is not special nothing it is.

Also "titan buff" is just overated, didn't stop then from dying or getting killed

Sooooooooooooo? Does that make it special? Once again, the Lich King also gained strength from raising undead, Galakrond will not grow stronger because there will be no undead under his control, he himself will be under Arthas's control.

Oh yeah, raising undead is much cooler than the Titan buff.

[Otaka]

I have noticed that many people believe that Galakrond is stronger than Deathwing and their whole argument is that Galakrond is just... big and can eat or step on Deathwing if the Lich King resurrects Galakrond. Do I understand correctly that according to your logic, any dinosaur or kraken is stronger than Sylvanas? Malfurion? Azshara? Illidan? That is, if i ask you who will win - King Krush or Azshara, you say that King Krush can just have a snack or step on Azshara? I mean, Mannoroth was bigger than Azshara and he chose not to fight her. Am I correct in understanding that, according to your logic, size is a more important advantage than enormous magical power?

Those characters never fought what you want so we can never know if they could handle them or not.
Mannoroth chose not to fight Azshara because Azshara was working with them...

Also theres a reason why players always kill everything in raids rather than us sending Malfurion or Azshara or other major power character after them. :P
Even tho they always steal the kill its still the players doing the heavy lifting to weaken said creatures.

Look at Sargeras, hes bigger than anything weve ever fought... and hes one of the greatest threats in the universe.

Let's talk about magic. Galakrond knows how to raise the dead. Cool. Deathwing is the master of arcane, earth and fire and void. He knows how to literally lift and destroy mountains, in ancient times he changed the landscape of Azeroth to help the younger races. He is such a powerful mage that he was able to cast a powerful spell on Korialstrasz (a powerful mage in himself) under Malygos's nose and Malygos did not even notice it. And Deathwing also has such a powerful spell as

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Endless_Hunger

Galakrond literally has nothing to do against such magic, even Korialstrasz barely survived.

Deathwing is not master of arcane and never was... Malygos is the aspect of arcane magic so hes the guy who could be titled as such. The reason why Deathwing is so good with magic is the same reason why all other aspects are, they have practiced for centuries and deathwing in particular also has the advantage of being empowered by the old gods.

And malygos has been mad for thousands of years, he doesnt care... thats why he couldnt notice or didnt care to notice. Being powerful doesnt automatically mean you can sense everything that happens everywhere, even to sense magic you need some sort of a spell to detect illusions and stuff... just like what Korialstrasz used and the fact that Korial survived means the spell clearly wasnt that powerful to begin with. :P
(and if you dont remember: all aspects except Deathwing were weakened since the war of the ancients... so their powers are only a fraction of what they used to be. They regained their powers back when Rhonin destroyed the demon soul, a few years after the opening of dark portal which occurred many years after this Korialstrasz incident)

If you read the spell you linked then youd realize it was a spell already known in the world... Korialastrasz knew about it and had a way to counter it. So clearly Deathwing didnt come up with? But he used it because he knew it was efficient.
Doesnt make Deathwing look like a magical genius if he used someone elses spell, using banned spells is like going to the forbidden section in Hogwarts Library and using something from those books that someone created long time ago.

Another ridiculous argument is that it took 5 Aspects to defeat Galakrond. Actually, it took 5 proto-dragons and a weakened Tyr(The Chronicle indicated that the Titan Keepers became weaker after the war with the Old Gods and the ordering of Azeroth) to defeat Galakrond. They weren't Aspects back then (and in terms of size, they got MUCH bigger after they became Aspects). Or that if the Lich King resurrects Galakrond, Galakrond will become even stronger for receiving the icy and necrotic powers of the Lich King. It won't help. When Khadgar confronted Deathwing, he noticed that ice spells did not work at all against Deathwing due to the fact that his body is filled with lava, he literally cannot be frozen (or chilled). Necrotic breath (Galakrond possessed it when he was alive, but not the fact that he would have possessed it after death) also does not help, since Kalecgos noticed that even an extreme amount of arkaina, which should have simply blown up any living creature, will not help against Deathwing from- for its incredible regeneration. Therefore, the Dragon Soul was needed. Indeed, Deathwing can be killed with massive physical damage, as we saw in the End Time. The problem is, we have no idea what happened there. Blizzard stated in an interview that after the victory, the Old Gods simply abandoned Deathwing as he did what they wanted and ordered him to kill himself. Most likely in this future, Nzoth simply took the powers he gave him and allowed Deathwing to kill him. And in the vision of Ysera, he was generally killed by Chromatus (who is clearly stronger than Galakrond).

It wasnt just 5 proto-dragons, it was the 5 smartest proto-dragons to exist. Also some of the biggest... Neltharion was described to be the biggest of their kin.

Deathwing can actually be killed relatively easily by a powerful mage. I bet Medivh or Aegwynn in their prime couldve dealt with him considering Khadgar used a simple spell on him in Outland and that hurt Deathwing so bad he immediately turned tail and flew back into Azeroth to prevent his inevitable death... ever since Cataclysm we know he went into hiding to Deepholm and had to have his body literally bolted together so as not to fall apart.

Grommash's grandfather killed 6 very powerful gronns, and this despite the fact that he did not even have magical abilities, he simply killed them because he was a good warrior. Or this ogre https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Gorgog_the_Gronnslayer. He used magic to kill the Gronns, although he was much smaller than them. Still think size in Warcraft means something?

Well, we humans can kill anything on our planet... even blue whales and elephants and we dont have magic. Even then it takes a bit more than one spear to do it... and one man probably cant do it without modern guns.

But the size difference between us is not as big as Deathwing and Galakrond.

Ive never actually heard that Galakrond couldnt fly... ive read the books aswell but i dont remember it saying Galakrond cant fly. I always assumed he could despite being so large... its the very fact that his death destroyed mountains which further tells me he was able to fly even before his death.

Not saying Deathwing cant beat him because intelligence always beats strength... as we saw done by the proto-drakes, cant beat him in a straight fight then make him choke on a rock!
But all it takes is one chomp or a smash and deathwing is done. It most certainly takes more than a few spells or breaths to take care of Galakrond, or one spell specifically crafted to deal with him. (in which case intelligence wins)

[Triceron]

Well, Arthas didn't give the power of frost to dragons who weren't originally a blue dragons.

But DKs are able to use the power of Frost magic despite not having that in life. Could this not be the case for magical constructs? We don't know because we've never seen him raise or empower a non-Blue dragon skeleton with Frost powers. Either way, it's just assumed right now.

Or even more useless, because in his final form, Deathwing was more elemental than living being. Necrotic breath causes the living to decay, but is unlikely to affect the elemental.

Necrotic still works on Dragon, and despite being 'elemental', the Dragon Soul still worked its power on him as a Dragon. He is still of flesh, as the Old Gods are.

What do you mean by what force? How should Galakrond's resurrection differ from everyone else's resurrection?

Ritual and purpose of narrative.

Consider the difference in creating an Abomination compared to a Flesh Titan. The difference between a regular Frost Wyrm, and a raid boss like Sindragosa or Sapphiron. Arthas only tapped into Frostmourne as a means of raising Sindragosa. If (for example) the story necessitated Galakrond being ressurected for the purpose of fighting Deathwing, then Arthas could have employed more rituals, more bindings and a higher source of power to create a more powerful super-weapon, similar to how he used the Sunwell to ressurect Kel'thuzad as opposed to just using Frostmourne to do so.

Of course, this does play into the 'well Deathwing could just get more boosted by Old Gods' discussion, but my point is if you're presenting a what-if scenario, then we can't really start limiting the what-ifs on the basis that 'well thats never happened before', because the whole premise of ressurecting Galakrond as a Frost Wyrm simply has never happened before either. And how that would even be done would be completely up in the air, since we could assume there could be a more empowered method than simply sticking Frostmourne into the ground. Again, it's tied to the purpose of the Narrative. Is this Galakrond just a minion, or is he a super weapon? The range is very wide on what he could be in this what-if scenario.

Yes, but the whole point of my topic is to debunk the stupid myth that Galakrond can defeat Deathwing 1 by 1. Galakrond, not Galakrond and a thousand ice serpents (although, obviously, even they will not succeed). I mean, I can think of a thousand what-if options too. Was Arthas able to lift Galakrond and empower him so he became a problem? Okay, now the Old Gods see the threat and strengthen Deathwing even more or order Murozond to deliver the Dragon Soul for Deathwing from the past. You assume that Arthas is the master planner and will do everything to win Galakrond, and you forget that behind Deathwing are real master planners, who are both much smarter and much stronger than Arthas.

All valid points.

All points which circle around to one single answer - it all depends on who is writing this, and what purpose of the narrative it is intended to serve. There has never been a case where Arthas has fought any other super power in the world other than Illidan, and for that he trumped him by getting empowered by a benefactor. It's the circumstance that decided the victor, not the simple power comparison between Arthas and Illidan.

Deathwing in Cataclysm was a super weapon of the Old Gods. He was no longer a manipulator or a schemer, he was presented as a pure force of destruction that was empowered by the Old Gods to destroy the world. If we're talking about Galakrond being used in a similar way by Arthas, then the question goes to how far Arthas is willing to seek greater power to empower this super weapon, and what purpose he intends to use it for. Because Arthas existed in a very odd point in time, where he is considered all powerful in Wrath, but very weak in comparison to all the threats that came after him. Yet it's also the existence of all those new sources of power that would allow a what-if scenario for Arthas to tap into new powers. That's the whole point of the What-if, and you can't really put an arbitrary limit on what has never happened before. Kinda like if Legion's story never happened and I asked 'is Gul'dan powerful enough to summon Sargeras?' and the obvious answer is no, he would not have. Legion is the 'what if' come true, where an alternate universe Gul'dan shows us that yes, he is actually capable of that, by using the power of the Nightwell. The purpose of the story is to have Gul'dan powerful enough to summon Sargeras. The result is providing him a means to do so, the Nightwell. Those are ways the narrative reaches the goal of making the 'what if' scenario be considered legitimately achievable.

If we're talking about Galakrond being resurrected, then there's more to the 'what if' than just assuming Arthas plunges Frostmourne into the ground to do so. The narrative range spans from 'Tie Fighter' to 'Starkiller base'. If Sindragosa was ressurected just from the plunge, and is arguably powerful enough to be one of the ICC Wing bosses, then it may be possible that creating a super weapon out of Galakrond could be orders of magnitude stronger than Arthas himself; like if Vader were to command a Death Star that is (as a super weapon) more powerful than himself. Or perhaps the narrative doesn't treat Galakrond as a super weapon at all, and just as a standard, run-of-the-mill World Boss, like some of the Frost Giants that roam the landscape. His power is directly tied to his purpose.

[darkoms]

Those characters never fought what you want so we can never know if they could handle them or not.
Mannoroth chose not to fight Azshara because Azshara was working with them...

Also theres a reason why players always kill everything in raids rather than us sending Malfurion or Azshara or other major power character after them. :P
Even tho they always steal the kill its still the players doing the heavy lifting to weaken said creatures.

Look at Sargeras, hes bigger than anything weve ever fought... and hes one of the greatest threats in the universe.


Deathwing is not master of arcane and never was... Malygos is the aspect of arcane magic so hes the guy who could be titled as such. The reason why Deathwing is so good with magic is the same reason why all other aspects are, they have practiced for centuries and deathwing in particular also has the advantage of being empowered by the old gods.

And malygos has been mad for thousands of years, he doesnt care... thats why he couldnt notice or didnt care to notice. Being powerful doesnt automatically mean you can sense everything that happens everywhere, even to sense magic you need some sort of a spell to detect illusions and stuff... just like what Korialstrasz used and the fact that Korial survived means the spell clearly wasnt that powerful to begin with. :P
(and if you dont remember: all aspects except Deathwing were weakened since the war of the ancients... so their powers are only a fraction of what they used to be. They regained their powers back when Rhonin destroyed the demon soul, a few years after the opening of dark portal which occurred many years after this Korialstrasz incident)

If you read the spell you linked then youd realize it was a spell already known in the world... Korialastrasz knew about it and had a way to counter it. So clearly Deathwing didnt come up with? But he used it because he knew it was efficient.
Doesnt make Deathwing look like a magical genius if he used someone elses spell, using banned spells is like going to the forbidden section in Hogwarts Library and using something from those books that someone created long time ago.


It wasnt just 5 proto-dragons, it was the 5 smartest proto-dragons to exist. Also some of the biggest... Neltharion was described to be the biggest of their kin.

Deathwing can actually be killed relatively easily by a powerful mage. I bet Medivh or Aegwynn in their prime couldve dealt with him considering Khadgar used a simple spell on him in Outland and that hurt Deathwing so bad he immediately turned tail and flew back into Azeroth to prevent his inevitable death... ever since Cataclysm we know he went into hiding to Deepholm and had to have his body literally bolted together so as not to fall apart.



Well, we humans can kill anything on our planet... even blue whales and elephants and we dont have magic. Even then it takes a bit more than one spear to do it... and one man probably cant do it without modern guns.

But the size difference between us is not as big as Deathwing and Galakrond.

Ive never actually heard that Galakrond couldnt fly... ive read the books aswell but i dont remember it saying Galakrond cant fly. I always assumed he could despite being so large... its the very fact that his death destroyed mountains which further tells me he was able to fly even before his death.

Not saying Deathwing cant beat him because intelligence always beats strength... as we saw done by the proto-drakes, cant beat him in a straight fight then make him choke on a rock!
But all it takes is one chomp or a smash and deathwing is done. It most certainly takes more than a few spells or breaths to take care of Galakrond, or one spell specifically crafted to deal with him. (in which case intelligence wins)

Mannoroth literally realizes that Azshara is much stronger than him and can whip him into committing suicide. Have you read the book at all? In the next one, I advise you to actually read it before answering. Yes, the reason is that the players are HELPS. Players have no chance against Deathwing without the help of the Aspects, no chance against Illidan without the help of Maiev, no chance against Archimonde without Khadgar, Yrel and Grommash. Nobody steals murder. You are simply helping some powerful characters against other powerful characters. Sargeras literally knows how to change his size and I do not think that he will be weaker than Deathwing if he shrinks to the size of a common man.

Deathwing in the War of the Ancients was not endowed with the power of the Old Gods and is a master of arcane. I'm not trying to say that he is an Aspect of Magic, I'm trying to say that he is a super cool magician. Do I have to explain everything as simply as possible? Lol stupidity again. Have you read any books at all? It was IN THE WAR OF THE ANCIENTS at a meeting of the Aspects. Malygos was then completely healthy. Lol is it true? Malygos' task is to literally watch out for the use of magic, and he does not see Deathwing casting a spell against Korialstrasz under his nose. The spell was not supposed to kill Korialstrasz (that would be suspicious), but only silence. No seriously, have you read the book at all? Or are you confusing two completely different spells - from the War of the Ancients and from the Dragon of the Day? Do I need to retell you the whole plot? I have no idea why you mention this if it was BEFORE the Aspects gave up their powers.

Korialstrasz is a magical genius himself, and if I remember correctly, he notes how powerful a mage Deathwing is.

Oh yeah, that changes everything. Not really. Smartest or not, these are still just proto-dragons, with no Titan buff.
And again, you are saying absolute stupidity because you read books with one eye or simply read retellings on wopedia. Khadgar could not do ANYTHING against Deathwing and he himself noticed that his spells (especially ice ones) were useless and the only thing left for him was to use telekinesis on Deathwing's plates so that he began to fall apart due to his own strength. After that, Deathwing ordered the goblins to put adamantium plates on him so that this would not happen again. Khadgar couldn't do that against Deathwing in Cataclysm. So no, Medivh and Aegwynn have no chance against him either. At the same time, Galakrond died simply because he choked on a stone. Do you know the Aspect of which Deathwing is? Yes exactly. Aspect of the EARTH.

You can kill an elephant with a weapon. Deathwing can kill Galakrond with magic. I also don't understand how you figured out the size difference between Galakrond and Deathwing. I think their difference is less than between a man and a blue whale. I also don't understand where you got the idea that it takes one bite or blow to kill Deathwing. Kalecgos said that Deathwing's regeneration is too strong so they need the Dragon Soul. At the same time, it will be enough for Deathwing to simply fly and breathe fire (and Deathwing's breath is hotter than lava, Galakrond will be killed very quickly) or use Endless Hunger or kill Galakrond using the landscape, and so on.


God, there were so many mistakes in your post that I will have nightmares about it. I have not seen such a terrible ignorance of lore for a long time.

- - - Updated - - -

But DKs are able to use the power of Frost magic despite not having that in life. Could this not be the case for magical constructs? We don't know because we've never seen him raise or empower a non-Blue dragon skeleton with Frost powers. Either way, it's just assumed right now.



Necrotic still works on Dragon, and despite being 'elemental', the Dragon Soul still worked its power on him as a Dragon. He is still of flesh, as the Old Gods are.



Ritual and purpose of narrative.

Consider the difference in creating an Abomination compared to a Flesh Titan. The difference between a regular Frost Wyrm, and a raid boss like Sindragosa or Sapphiron. Arthas only tapped into Frostmourne as a means of raising Sindragosa. If (for example) the story necessitated Galakrond being ressurected for the purpose of fighting Deathwing, then Arthas could have employed more rituals, more bindings and a higher source of power to create a more powerful super-weapon, similar to how he used the Sunwell to ressurect Kel'thuzad as opposed to just using Frostmourne to do so.

Of course, this does play into the 'well Deathwing could just get more boosted by Old Gods' discussion, but my point is if you're presenting a what-if scenario, then we can't really start limiting the what-ifs on the basis that 'well thats never happened before', because the whole premise of ressurecting Galakrond as a Frost Wyrm simply has never happened before either. And how that would even be done would be completely up in the air, since we could assume there could be a more empowered method than simply sticking Frostmourne into the ground. Again, it's tied to the purpose of the Narrative. Is this Galakrond just a minion, or is he a super weapon? The range is very wide on what he could be in this what-if scenario.



All valid points.

All points which circle around to one single answer - it all depends on who is writing this, and what purpose of the narrative it is intended to serve. There has never been a case where Arthas has fought any other super power in the world other than Illidan, and for that he trumped him by getting empowered by a benefactor. It's the circumstance that decided the victor, not the simple power comparison between Arthas and Illidan.

Deathwing in Cataclysm was a super weapon of the Old Gods. He was no longer a manipulator or a schemer, he was presented as a pure force of destruction that was empowered by the Old Gods to destroy the world. If we're talking about Galakrond being used in a similar way by Arthas, then the question goes to how far Arthas is willing to seek greater power to empower this super weapon, and what purpose he intends to use it for. Because Arthas existed in a very odd point in time, where he is considered all powerful in Wrath, but very weak in comparison to all the threats that came after him. Yet it's also the existence of all those new sources of power that would allow a what-if scenario for Arthas to tap into new powers. That's the whole point of the What-if, and you can't really put an arbitrary limit on what has never happened before. Kinda like if Legion's story never happened and I asked 'is Gul'dan powerful enough to summon Sargeras?' and the obvious answer is no, he would not have. Legion is the 'what if' come true, where an alternate universe Gul'dan shows us that yes, he is actually capable of that, by using the power of the Nightwell. The purpose of the story is to have Gul'dan powerful enough to summon Sargeras. The result is providing him a means to do so, the Nightwell. Those are ways the narrative reaches the goal of making the 'what if' scenario be considered legitimately achievable.

If we're talking about Galakrond being resurrected, then there's more to the 'what if' than just assuming Arthas plunges Frostmourne into the ground to do so. The narrative range spans from 'Tie Fighter' to 'Starkiller base'. If Sindragosa was ressurected just from the plunge, and is arguably powerful enough to be one of the ICC Wing bosses, then it may be possible that creating a super weapon out of Galakrond could be orders of magnitude stronger than Arthas himself; like if Vader were to command a Death Star that is (as a super weapon) more powerful than himself. Or perhaps the narrative doesn't treat Galakrond as a super weapon at all, and just as a standard, run-of-the-mill World Boss, like some of the Frost Giants that roam the landscape. His power is directly tied to his purpose.

DK is DK, it is a special kind of undead, as opposed to forst wyrms which are simply skeletons of dragons.

What does the Dragon Soul mean acting on him like a dragon? If you shoot a Soul Dragon beam at anyone, an undead, demon, or elemental, he will die. The Dragon Soul does not only work on dragons.

Sindragosa and Sapphiron were originally super powerful dragons. I have no idea why you are talking about them. They were stronger than ordinary dragons in life, and remained so in death.

Who is Deathwing considered? Superweapon? Well then, the Old Gods will just make him even stronger. That's why this is a stupid argument, we can endlessly say what if instead of a real comparison.

[Triceron]

DK is DK, it is a special kind of undead, as opposed to forst wyrms which are simply skeletons of dragons.

Why couldn't Galakrond be raised as a special kind of undead?

What does the Dragon Soul mean acting on him like a dragon? If you shoot a Soul Dragon beam at anyone, an undead, demon, or elemental, he will die. The Dragon Soul does not only work on dragons.

To illustrate that he is still mortal, despite his empowering. Thus Necrotic energy would still affect him, and he is not *immune* simply because he is powerful.

Sindragosa and Sapphiron were originally super powerful dragons. I have no idea why you are talking about them. They were stronger than ordinary dragons in life, and remained so in death.

And Galakrond is immensely powerful and capable of being imbued with more power than in life. Even if not canon, we have multiple examples of this in Descent of Dragons Hearthstone. He is typically portrayed as a vessel for empowerment, to be used as a super weapon. And in certain cases, these dragons are actually *stronger in death* than they were in life, due to the empowerment received in resurrection.

Who is Deathwing considered? Superweapon? Well then, the Old Gods will just make him even stronger. That's why this is a stupid argument, we can endlessly say what if instead of a real comparison.

Which is why I said you shouldn't have opened that can of wyrms (kek). You are the one who what-if'd the scenario by implying Galakrond could be resurrected by Arthas and nothing changes. Well no, that's not how what-ifs work, and you know it. It's exactly the scenario you list here. You can't just make it a passing comment and expect the scenario to play out in the least-effective-possibility as a means of discrediting Galakrond's power.

As soon as you what-if any scenario, you are dealing with an immeasurable power increase.

[mickybrighteyes]

DK is DK, it is a special kind of undead, as opposed to forst wyrms which are simply skeletons of dragons.

Not sure why this matters since Arthas basically just raised whatyever he wanted. Normal mortals came back as ghouls and DK depending on never explained reasoning.

bolvar even just went around picking up random corpses for his new generation of DK while arthas' last generation seemed a smattering of war veterans.

Also weren't the Sanlayne all just a group of blood elves that got raised? Not even a particularly powerful bunch even...

[Otaka]

Mannoroth literally realizes that Azshara is much stronger than him and can whip him into committing suicide. Have you read the book at all? In the next one, I advise you to actually read it before answering. Yes, the reason is that the players are HELPS. Players have no chance against Deathwing without the help of the Aspects, no chance against Illidan without the help of Maiev, no chance against Archimonde without Khadgar, Yrel and Grommash. Nobody steals murder. You are simply helping some powerful characters against other powerful characters. Sargeras literally knows how to change his size and I do not think that he will be weaker than Deathwing if he shrinks to the size of a common man.

Deathwing in the War of the Ancients was not endowed with the power of the Old Gods and is a master of arcane. I'm not trying to say that he is an Aspect of Magic, I'm trying to say that he is a super cool magician. Do I have to explain everything as simply as possible? Lol stupidity again. Have you read any books at all? It was IN THE WAR OF THE ANCIENTS at a meeting of the Aspects. Malygos was then completely healthy. Lol is it true? Malygos' task is to literally watch out for the use of magic, and he does not see Deathwing casting a spell against Korialstrasz under his nose. The spell was not supposed to kill Korialstrasz (that would be suspicious), but only silence. No seriously, have you read the book at all? Or are you confusing two completely different spells - from the War of the Ancients and from the Dragon of the Day? Do I need to retell you the whole plot? I have no idea why you mention this if it was BEFORE the Aspects gave up their powers.

Korialstrasz is a magical genius himself, and if I remember correctly, he notes how powerful a mage Deathwing is.

Oh yeah, that changes everything. Not really. Smartest or not, these are still just proto-dragons, with no Titan buff.
And again, you are saying absolute stupidity because you read books with one eye or simply read retellings on wopedia. Khadgar could not do ANYTHING against Deathwing and he himself noticed that his spells (especially ice ones) were useless and the only thing left for him was to use telekinesis on Deathwing's plates so that he began to fall apart due to his own strength. After that, Deathwing ordered the goblins to put adamantium plates on him so that this would not happen again. Khadgar couldn't do that against Deathwing in Cataclysm. So no, Medivh and Aegwynn have no chance against him either. At the same time, Galakrond died simply because he choked on a stone. Do you know the Aspect of which Deathwing is? Yes exactly. Aspect of the EARTH.

You can kill an elephant with a weapon. Deathwing can kill Galakrond with magic. I also don't understand how you figured out the size difference between Galakrond and Deathwing. I think their difference is less than between a man and a blue whale. I also don't understand where you got the idea that it takes one bite or blow to kill Deathwing. Kalecgos said that Deathwing's regeneration is too strong so they need the Dragon Soul. At the same time, it will be enough for Deathwing to simply fly and breathe fire (and Deathwing's breath is hotter than lava, Galakrond will be killed very quickly) or use Endless Hunger or kill Galakrond using the landscape, and so on.


God, there were so many mistakes in your post that I will have nightmares about it. I have not seen such a terrible ignorance of lore for a long time.

Wow you seem triggered. maybe you shouldnt discuss lore when you get angry so easily?
You think insulting others makes it fun to discuss anything with you? i can only imagine what it was like with you in school.

Literally noone has called Deathwing a master of arcane, because he isnt, being able to silence a mortal who is not even at his full power is not really a big feat for someone whos clearly a master of deception (incase you conveniently forgot krasus + korialastrasz were weakened by being alive at the sametime in the same timeline, dragons are also weaker in their mortal form and that was the krasus he silenced, and deathwing is known for his skill at deception throughout the history, clearly something like that is old god related since they are also all about deception)... and clearly you havent ReAd tHe bOoKs either since you dont remember that Deathwing was already mad by the time war of the ancients began. Its not like he whipped up the idea for demon soul during the war... hes probably been mad for decades waiting for the right moment to get all other aspects under his thrall, he cant fight against them when they are at full power. (as proven by the novel: Night of the Dragon)

You insult others of "terrible ignorance of lore" yet you vastly underestimate galakrond's size by not even knowing lore. (not to mention the other parts i already mentioned you seemed to have conveniently forgot. things i hadnt despite not reading the books in a few years)

From the quest Audience with the dragon queen, straight from alexstrasza's mouth: "His size alone was greater than all of the Aspects combined!"
Read it? it said "aspects" and as you mentioned they werent aspects yet when they fought galakrond so clearly galakrond was significantly larger than what they were before becoming aspects (probably double or triple atleast). The skeleton in dragonblight is just a skeleton, it doesnt show muscles or other fleshy bits that galakrond grew when eating.

Also you conveniently forgot how Deathwing himself literally claimed he would never willingly face Medivh in combat(Day of the Dragon) and had similar views of Thrall.
So yes strong mages could deal with him... Khadgar wasnt exactly a strong mage but he was very smart, perhaps even a "genius mage" like your favorite Krasus.
Khadgar most likely couldnt do it in Cataclysm because Deathwing isnt stupid... he 100% had prepared for such spells by... i dont know... adding WARDS to protect himself from such small spells he deemed insignificant earlier? thats literally what mages in the lore do all the time. Wards to protect vaults, wards to protect themselves, wards to prevent people from getting in your tower and snooping around (*cough* Medivh *cough*).

And what regeneration? Deathwing has regeneration? Ive never heard of it...care to elaborate? and without insults because its really cringe considering how badly you know the lore. I might have mixed up the hunger and meeting silencing but atleast im not being a b*tch about it when YOU massacre the lore. Regardless of that i doubt silencing some mortal requires more magical prowess than using endless hunger, one of the most dangerous spells in the world.

Literally the only thing i know for a fact from the books is that Deathwing has more like degeneration... thats why he had to give up demon soul and thats why he had to have goblins bolt plates onto him, because it was literally tearing him apart. Thats not regeneration, thats the opposite.
If theres a sentence where Kalecgos says that lemme know, theres not alot of books where he is in so you cant expect me to remember.

Regeneration doesnt help much if youre smashed... its not deadpool we are talking about here. Where was his regeneration when Khadgar split him apart? why did he run away if he had such powerful regeneration that only demon soul could kill him?

[darkoms]

Wow you seem triggered. maybe you shouldnt discuss lore when you get angry so easily?
You think insulting others makes it fun to discuss anything with you? i can only imagine what it was like with you in school.

Literally noone has called Deathwing a master of arcane, because he isnt, being able to silence a mortal who is not even at his full power is not really a big feat for someone whos clearly a master of deception (incase you conveniently forgot krasus + korialastrasz were weakened by being alive at the sametime in the same timeline, dragons are also weaker in their mortal form and that was the krasus he silenced, and deathwing is known for his skill at deception throughout the history, clearly something like that is old god related since they are also all about deception)... and clearly you havent ReAd tHe bOoKs either since you dont remember that Deathwing was already mad by the time war of the ancients began. Its not like he whipped up the idea for demon soul during the war... hes probably been mad for decades waiting for the right moment to get all other aspects under his thrall, he cant fight against them when they are at full power. (as proven by the novel: Night of the Dragon)

You insult others of "terrible ignorance of lore" yet you vastly underestimate galakrond's size by not even knowing lore. (not to mention the other parts i already mentioned you seemed to have conveniently forgot. things i hadnt despite not reading the books in a few years)

From the quest Audience with the dragon queen, straight from alexstrasza's mouth: "His size alone was greater than all of the Aspects combined!"
Read it? it said "aspects" and as you mentioned they werent aspects yet when they fought galakrond so clearly galakrond was significantly larger than what they were before becoming aspects (probably double or triple atleast). The skeleton in dragonblight is just a skeleton, it doesnt show muscles or other fleshy bits that galakrond grew when eating.

Also you conveniently forgot how Deathwing himself literally claimed he would never willingly face Medivh in combat(Day of the Dragon) and had similar views of Thrall.
So yes strong mages could deal with him... Khadgar wasnt exactly a strong mage but he was very smart, perhaps even a "genius mage" like your favorite Krasus.
Khadgar most likely couldnt do it in Cataclysm because Deathwing isnt stupid... he 100% had prepared for such spells by... i dont know... adding WARDS to protect himself from such small spells he deemed insignificant earlier? thats literally what mages in the lore do all the time. Wards to protect vaults, wards to protect themselves, wards to prevent people from getting in your tower and snooping around (*cough* Medivh *cough*).

And what regeneration? Deathwing has regeneration? Ive never heard of it...care to elaborate? and without insults because its really cringe considering how badly you know the lore. I might have mixed up the hunger and meeting silencing but atleast im not being a b*tch about it when YOU massacre the lore. Regardless of that i doubt silencing some mortal requires more magical prowess than using endless hunger, one of the most dangerous spells in the world.

Literally the only thing i know for a fact from the books is that Deathwing has more like degeneration... thats why he had to give up demon soul and thats why he had to have goblins bolt plates onto him, because it was literally tearing him apart. Thats not regeneration, thats the opposite.
If theres a sentence where Kalecgos says that lemme know, theres not alot of books where he is in so you cant expect me to remember.

Regeneration doesnt help much if youre smashed... its not deadpool we are talking about here. Where was his regeneration when Khadgar split him apart? why did he run away if he had such powerful regeneration that only demon soul could kill him?

God, how many mistakes. Again. Also, trying to joke about school will make you look even more pathetic.

Oh yeah, using arcane under the nose of someone whose duty to FOLLOW ARCANE is not arcane skill. If it is not, then I do not even know what then. Krasus was not mortal, I have no idea what you are talking about. By that time, Krasus was hardly weakened because Korialstrasz had given him his scales. Are you just talking random nonsense or trying to convey a message? In the first post you said that MALIGOS was insane and therefore did not notice anything, I told you that at that time MALIGOS was not insane and now you are telling me that DEATHWING was insane by that time. Don't you remember what you wrote? Did you make a mistake in the first post? Or are you just trying to sound like someone who knows something? No, really, on this forum I argued many times with a person who has dyslexia and he explains his thoughts 100 times better than you. Are you at least trying, or will it make no difference to you whether I understand you or not?

Once again, how do you know the exact size of Galakrond? Did someone tell you his height? Weight? Otherwise, it is not clear how you determined that I underestimate him. Because I'm just pointing out that size is unimportant, not stating that Galakrond is small.

Yes it is. Only at that moment the Aspects were not Aspects, they were proto-dragons. The Chronicle clearly states that after they received the powers of the Titans, they became huge. We have no idea how the size of the Aspects and Galakrond NOW relates.

That doesn't mean he's weaker than Medivh, lol. No, really, you are now in all seriousness trying to prove that KALECGOS, being an ASPECT OF MAGIC, could not defeat Deathwing without the Dragon Soul, but Medivh could? Are you seriously trying to tell me now that Medivh is stronger than Kalecgos or Malygos? He feared Thrall because it was predicted that Thrall would kill him. And he did it (with the help of the Dragon Soul). Also, since we are talking about the old lore (Dragon Day) where it says that Deathwing would not want to fight Medivh, let's remember the lore of Warcraft 2, where it directly says that Deathwing is the second strongest creature on the planet after Alexstrasza.
Khadgar was not a powerful mage. Khadgar. Was not a powerful mage. AHAHPAHPHAVHPVAHPHAVHAPHAVHHHAPHAVHPHVAH. Sorry, it escaped. Yes, Khadgar is a genius mage.
This is precisely why the only reason Khadgar could defeat Deathwing at all is because at that moment Deathwing did not have normal plates. Khadgar has no chance against Deathwing from Cataclysm.

Enjoy
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/st...of-the-aspects
There are only 5 pages here, so read this in full.

It amuses me very much how you continue to demonstrate that you know absolutely nothing, and to assert that I do not know knowledge. Apparently I really touched you, you are not used to being shown how poorly you really know lore. Am I destroying lore? What? He not only silenced them, he made it so that they cannot say that Deathwing is evil. They can talk about anything, but when they try to say it, they start to faint. Deathwing was so powerful that he was able to cast this spell on Malfurion even when they simply met as astral projections in the Emerald Dream.

His regeneration was not at this moment, it appeared after the Second War, when N'zoth decided to arrange a Cataclysm and for this he filled Deathwing with the energy of the Void.

And so, you are talking about the size of Galakrond and that he will win because of this. So can you finally refute my argument about Mannoroth and Azshara? Come on, super lore expert. Why was Mannoroth several times larger than Azshara, but still decided not to fight her? He bluntly stated that she was much stronger than him and she could force him to strangle himself. He was larger than her (and yet a powerful user of the Fel), but much weaker. So the size does not solve anything with the difference in magical power? Or another example. Your Medivh. You are assuming Medivh will defeat Deathwing (which is complete nonsense, but let's believe it for a second to show the absurdity of your claims) because he is a super cool magician. But Deathwing is 100 times the size of Medivh. How can Medivh win? No, you really prove to me AT THE SAME TIME that Medivh is stronger than Deathwing because of cool magic, and that Galakrond is stronger than Deathwing simply because he is bigger. How can these two thoughts exist in your little head at the same time? My whole argument boils down to the fact that magical power is much more important than size and that Deathwing will defeat Galakrond because of magical power. You come and say that Deathwing is weak because Medivh can defeat him. Do you see any contradictions here? Or are you just kidding me? Or do you just hate Deathwing?

- - - Updated - - -

Why couldn't Galakrond be raised as a special kind of undead?



To illustrate that he is still mortal, despite his empowering. Thus Necrotic energy would still affect him, and he is not *immune* simply because he is powerful.



And Galakrond is immensely powerful and capable of being imbued with more power than in life. Even if not canon, we have multiple examples of this in Descent of Dragons Hearthstone. He is typically portrayed as a vessel for empowerment, to be used as a super weapon. And in certain cases, these dragons are actually *stronger in death* than they were in life, due to the empowerment received in resurrection.



Which is why I said you shouldn't have opened that can of wyrms (kek). You are the one who what-if'd the scenario by implying Galakrond could be resurrected by Arthas and nothing changes. Well no, that's not how what-ifs work, and you know it. It's exactly the scenario you list here. You can't just make it a passing comment and expect the scenario to play out in the least-effective-possibility as a means of discrediting Galakrond's power.

As soon as you what-if any scenario, you are dealing with an immeasurable power increase.

What kind of special undead? Make him DK? Make him a lich? What kind of super undead can be made from a dragon? And why didn't he do the same to Sindragosa? Didn't make her a super weapon against the Aspects?

Once again, a shot from a dragon soul at ANYONE, even an elemental, even a demon, even an undead, will destroy this creature. How is his mortality shown here?

AND? No, really, what does it have to do with it? The Lich King also strengthened Sindragosa, but she did not become a demigod at the Aspect level. Let's do without Hearthstone, or I'll start asking you who will win the battle between Fel-infused Galakrond or Light-infused Ragnaros.

No, you started it. Your argument boils down to the fact that Arthas will not just raise Galakrond (which was possible), and strengthen him. Your argument boils down to the fact that Arthas is super smart and he will find means, some artifact or come up with something else (you are not trying to indicate possible scenarios, you are just saying that in theory there is something that we do not know about and Arthas can find it ) to make Galakrond a Deathwing killing machine and now forbid me to come up with the same scenarios with the Old Gods because we can argue about it endlessly and come up with increasingly stupid scenarios. But the Magic Mud Crab told you at the very beginning that it will be so. Why didn't you immediately stop doing this, and now you are unhappy that we are doing this?

[Syegfryed]

Sooooooooooooo? Does that make it special?

Very special, unless you point how many things coud do that

Once again, the Lich King also gained strength from raising undead, Galakrond will not grow stronger because there will be no undead under his control, he himself will be under Arthas's control.

that is again, your headcanon, you don't know how things will unfold, just assume, there is plenty of undeads who broke free from hiim

Oh yeah, raising undead is much cooler than the Titan buff.

i mean, yeah, but that is not the point

[ArenaDk]

So why not make it simple. Compare what they have and see first if any auto win abilitys exist.

For Galakrond to win , he needs to check the list of :

Being able to withstand Fire/Lava

Must be able to reach deathwing

Must be able to hurt deathwing through his armor and healing

Must be able to resist high level magic like endless hunger which is a auto win spell

Must be able to resist mind controll

Must be able to resist physicall attacks like earhn/ elementium


What Deathwing needs to defeat Galakrond :

Must be able to harm a target of his size

Must be able to not be eaten / survive when being eaten

Must be able to withstand physicall atacks if Gala can reach him

Must outlast Galakrond who hasnt shown fatigue if he cant apply mayor damage.


Now lets check all this boxes and see who has the edge.

In my personal opinion Galakrond loses most likely because of him being primitive and has evolved in a way to make him the top predator in the protodragon time, but deathwing evolved and adepted to modern standarts were physicall strength alone isnt enough. Deathwing wearing armor alone shows the difference in progress.

Also it would be important to know if we take a deathwing who remebers the previous fight, because copying the strategie from last time shouldnt be an issue.


And to come back to an earlier comment about Chromatus, I think to remember that Chromatus statded the only dragon more powerful than himself was deathwing, however he was an infant at the time so its hard to say.

[defibrillator]

He could fly and proto-dragons even fought him in the air at the beginning and middle of the book, but if I remember correctly during the final battle, he was already too huge to fly.

- - - Updated - - -

He was never too huge to fly, he died mid-flight.

[darkoms]

He was never too huge to fly, he died mid-flight.

Hmm, isn't it? Could you please provide a quote? I hardly remember this battle

- - - Updated - - -

Very special, unless you point how many things coud do that


that is again, your headcanon, you don't know how things will unfold, just assume, there is plenty of undeads who broke free from hiim



i mean, yeah, but that is not the point

Your whole argument is literally based on your headcanon and the fact that POTENTIALLY Galakrond can become super strong. I wonder how many galaxies Arthas needs to capture for the buff from him to be equal to the buff from Titan?

[Aucald]

Hmm, isn't it? Could you please provide a quote? I hardly remember this battle

Galakrond takes flight in parts IV and V of Dawn of the Aspects, specifically:

The vast wings flapped once. Funneled by the curve of the landscape, the gust they created threw the smaller proto-dragons and also Tyr in every direction. With another beat, the wings lifted the incredibly huge beast high above the ground. As that happened, it became apparent that Galakrond had increased in dimension and had become more distorted. His head was longer and thinner, and his snout stretched half again the length of that of any normal proto-dragon. His sharp teeth were wickedly curved, so much so that they greatly protruded whenever he clamped his jaws shut.

Chapter V demonstrates that his flight is ungainly and slow compared to the proto-drakes fighting him, he has a tendency to collide with mountaintops and cause landslides, and flying seems to labor him greatly. But all the same, he was definitely capable of it.

[Syegfryed]

Your whole argument is literally based on your headcanon and the fact that POTENTIALLY Galakrond can become super strong. I wonder how many galaxies Arthas needs to capture for the buff from him to be equal to the buff from Titan?

No, my argument is based on possibilities, real ones, taking account the being Galakrond was, you are assuming something else, that is your problem, i never said it was canon.

[Inoculate]

Do I understand correctly that according to your logic, any dinosaur or kraken is stronger than Sylvanas? Malfurion? Azshara? Illidan? That is, if i ask you who will win - King Krush or Azshara, you say that King Krush can just have a snack or step on Azshara?

Op... you strawman in your opening statement, what hope of a civil discussion do you think can come of this topic?

[darkoms]

No, my argument is based on possibilities, real ones, taking account the being Galakrond was, you are assuming something else, that is your problem, i never said it was canon.

Oh yes, rise undead>>>>>create and destroy mountains

- - - Updated - - -

Galakrond takes flight in parts IV and V of Dawn of the Aspects, specifically:

The vast wings flapped once. Funneled by the curve of the landscape, the gust they created threw the smaller proto-dragons and also Tyr in every direction. With another beat, the wings lifted the incredibly huge beast high above the ground. As that happened, it became apparent that Galakrond had increased in dimension and had become more distorted. His head was longer and thinner, and his snout stretched half again the length of that of any normal proto-dragon. His sharp teeth were wickedly curved, so much so that they greatly protruded whenever he clamped his jaws shut.

Chapter V demonstrates that his flight is ungainly and slow compared to the proto-drakes fighting him, he has a tendency to collide with mountaintops and cause landslides, and flying seems to labor him greatly. But all the same, he was definitely capable of it.

Thank you
10 symbols

[Syegfryed]

Oh yes, rise undead>>>>>create and destroy mountains

i can't see why its impossible, know how obnoxious warcraft lore can get.

[darkoms]

i can't see why its impossible, know how obnoxious warcraft lore can get.

Compare the number of those who can raise undead (any random necromancer) and those who can destroy and create mountains. Then tell me which one is more difficult.
Galakrond was not some super cool necromancer, he raised mindless undead, I don’t understand why you are trying to portray him as such a powerful creature if the only thing he excelled at was his enormous size. The huge size will not help against someone who can breathe lava and use the elements, arcane and void. You still haven't told me what Galakrond will do against a spell like endless hunger.