Do Healers have to DPS now during down time in between heals?

[Rubim]

The only challenging content im interested in was mythic raiding, mythic plus is just boring, scaling difficulty doesnt really mean its more challenging, it just comes down to math at the end of the day if your able to time it or not, because the tactics mostly stay the same regardless.

Bingo.

Now its better. So for your content, a healer doing DPS is only needed if you`re trying to beat a timer. If you aren't, you're safe to AFK.

Examples: Lady Ashvane on the first weeks.

But all depends on the boss.

[Rubim]

The only challenging content im interested in was mythic raiding, mythic plus is just boring, scaling difficulty doesnt really mean its more challenging, it just comes down to math at the end of the day if your able to time it or not, because the tactics mostly stay the same regardless.



They have already been debunked because that type of healing was done in past expansions where healers had to focus on healing 100%

That was never the case. And still its not on Private Servers with 30~40% increased HP and Damage from Raid Bosses.

As you see, there's a few changes. You can also check the changelog for more changes regarding specific Ulduar bosses. However, due to the large number of Hard Mode changes, the more difficult version of bosses won't be available in the first week (25-Man version of Hard Modes, 10-Man HM is available from release). Why is that? We want to give you the best Ulduar possible, we're working day and night for weeks and our changes regarding the Hard Modes have now crossed the number of 200. And that's for 25-Man only.
To bring the highest Hard Mode quality and due to the fact that many of the spells require custom code for the client to handle it (which limits us), it will be available the next week after more testing on the closed Development realm.

Thats the Lich King Hard Mode from Private Servers.

[Diaphin]

Spoiler Alert: He Cant.

Is it only me or is he unable to understand terms like downtime, uptime, skill floor and skill ceiling even if explained to me? Like, he constantly talked about how back in the day he did LK heroic. Like, not even mentioning LK 1o or 25 heroic which is an important difference because nobody gives a fuck about your LK heroic kill if you didn't got a 100% Invincible drop and starts to act all toxic, aggitated and irritated, so I got the feeling I'm argueing with somebody who doesn't understands even basic theory of that game.

And he made weird arguments about how people leave WoW because healer have to dps, when most of them leave for FF14 where healer dps is actually much more established, central and has a higher uptime.

[kenn9530]

like when?

WotlK, Cata, MoP, bosses like sinestra where 1 missed heal and the tank would possibly die even with the buff healers got that could spam holy light as a paladin as fast as the gcd would allow.

[Diaphin]

That was never the case. And still its not on Private Servers with 30~40% increased HP and Damage from Raid Bosses.


Thats the Lich King Hard Mode from Private Servers.

It ignored that argument as well.

- - - Updated - - -

WotlK, Cata, MoP, bosses like sinestra where 1 missed heal and the tank would possibly die even with the buff healers got that could spam holy light as a paladin as fast as the gcd would allow.

MAybe your tanks were just shit? Or dks? Like, in cataclysm there was never a reason not to bring a Paladin if you want to play optimally.

[Rubim]

WotlK, Cata, MoP, bosses like sinestra where 1 missed heal and the tank would possibly die even with the buff healers got that could spam holy light as a paladin as fast as the gcd would allow.

On Cataclysm only Ultraxion if you wanted to bring one Healer.

Are you impling that the tank was in danger of dying every single GCD trough the whole fight?

[Diaphin]

i don't believe that at all lol...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yDtX8HUEU

It looks so slow and comfy <3

[Rubim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yDtX8HUEU

It looks so slow and comfy <3

Dude even has Crusader Strike and Judgement TELLMEWHEN.

But even so, he's full of shit.

[kenn9530]

It ignored that argument as well.

- - - Updated - - -



MAybe your tanks were just shit? Or dks? Like, in cataclysm there was never a reason not to bring a Paladin if you want to play optimally.

I was in the top 3 day raiding guild back in early cata with ex method players so tanks were not shit just a hardcore 3 day guild.

[Rubim]

I was in the top 3 day raiding guild back in early cata with ex method players so tanks were not shit just a hardcore 3 day guild.

Are you implying that:
The tank was in danger of dying between each GCD on the ENTIRE FIGHT?

[kenn9530]

Are you implying that:
The tank was in danger of dying between each GCD on the ENTIRE FIGHT?

Especially if more than 1 healer had to kite the balls, a tank could easily die, there was a 100% haste buff later on in the fight, back then mana actually mattered more and healers did very little damage anyway. In Cata if you were not disc you didnt do damage and paladins would only use judgement not and then, look at some old skada pics and healers are lucky to even do 1% overall all together.

[Diaphin]

I was in the top 3 day raiding guild back in early cata with ex method players so tanks were not shit just a hardcore 3 day guild.

Didn't you started that argument with just being the top guild of your server? Like, I'm honest, I was willing to give you the benefit of a doubt of just being a boomer who couldn't move with the time, as many players who were very good in older iterations of the game couldn't keep up with its increasing difficulty. I was questioning your skills because you seemed deaf or unable to discuss the topic on a mechanical and theoretical level instead of waving around your perceived archievements tbh.

But like now you have thrown away your credibility. If you are on this level, what is it that you can't grasp about the issues of skill floor and skill ceiling on healers?

Like, thats the entire argument. Healers inheritly will creat more down times and less time spend casting heals as they move closer to the skill ceiling, which means that they either stand arround contributing nothing in that downtime, which makes improvements in their skills basically useless just as if a higher skilled dps player would constantly stop dpsing to remain on the level of a player on the skill floor, or they will use the freed up time to use dps spells.

Your alternative would require skill floor and skill ceiling being near identical for healers, as otherwise healers will always creat downtimes with increased skills.

What is the problem of understanding that issue and if you disagree, to debunk it with a simple argument? I mean, I think we should at least be able to agree that healers shouldn't just stand around doing nothing, right?

- - - Updated - - -

lol and i play with naowh every day...

I actually gave some kid drawing lessons back in the day, he never became as good as I but I think he became well known as a mangaka in japan. I think that kids name was Takehiko Inoue or something like this. I feel ashamed that I couldn'T teach him to draw as well as I can, really.

- - - Updated - - -

Are you implying that:
The tank was in danger of dying between each GCD on the ENTIRE FIGHT?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPmsUrC8e_E

[kenn9530]

snip

you wont even link a character you have no credibility, you have already be debunked as in several expansions healers didnt do dps they just healed, that alone proves you wrong since its worked in the past it would work again. There are plenty of pictures of top guilds where those healers only did damage that was essential for the class, ie judgements and disc priest.

[Kyanion]

Until you provide a character you play i will not be entertaining you further, its obvious you dont play mythic raiding content so stick with doing your low keys and heroic raids.

Says the person not mythic raiding and not doing keys?

- - - Updated - - -

forgot to address this...

https://youtu.be/iUFZzs7ddl0?t=540

does that tormented mob look like pride to you? "last season mythic plus in probably the best gear available" 13th july? lol...

Like he knows what is going on in m+ lol.

- - - Updated - - -

you can't complain about the game lacking challenge when you won't do the challenging content lol...

But he claimed he totally did them last season...oh wait. Let's see here, his armory shows that he got the feat of strength for keystone explorer/conqueror/master all on the same day, wow I wonder why that happened. Feb 5th 2021, I wonder how much the carry cost on his realm to get all the 15's done at once. Lolz.

- - - Updated - - -

I was in the top 3 day raiding guild back in early cata with ex method players so tanks were not shit just a hardcore 3 day guild.

Just because you may have been IN this raiding guild does not mean you were you know, raiding with said guild back in early cata.

[Thestrawman]

I see Kenn got bored of lying over in the Star Citizen thread and jumped to lying over here. Just a tip for the thread, anything coming out of Kenn's mouth is bullshit.

[KrayZ33]

It's just Kenn guys, his whole existence is a lie, don't bother. You'll see the sun explode before he starts admitting his failures and lies.

[Diaphin]

you wont even link a character you have no credibility, you have already be debunked as in several expansions healers didnt do dps they just healed, that alone proves you wrong since its worked in the past it would work again. There are plenty of pictures of top guilds where those healers only did damage that was essential for the class, ie judgements and disc priest.

1. Because i don't do logs i play very casually.
2. I don't base my arguments on alleged ingame feats but on discussing the game on a mechanical level as opposed to you
3. Every modern healer could would squeeze in some dps during the fights i posted and you claimed to have not allowed for dps, the incoming raid damage isn't that high most of the times
4. Times change old man


You can't reverse developments in the playerbases mentallity and general skillset. Players discovered that they can do dps in between downtimes where they don't need tp heal. So they do it. You can't reverse this mentallity Shift.

See WoW Classic. Old Game, old mechanics the modern retail mentallity and skillsets.

[DechCJC]

I don't even know which post of Ken's to quote because it baffles me so much.

I can't think of a single fight in the game where DPSing as a healer isn't possible. Even if you were able to solo heal some of the hardest fights of the game, you would STILL find periods where there's nothing to do but DPS.

No one's forcing you to do it, but you're objectively not playing healer up to a high standard if you choose not to. Anyone that disagrees with this is acting akin to a flat earther; it's not a debate. Perhaps there were points in time where DPSing as a healer was more hassle than it was worth due to mana constraints, but you can bet that the top players did it anyway.

[potis]

I don't even know which post of Ken's to quote because it baffles me so much.

I can't think of a single fight in the game where DPSing as a healer isn't possible. Even if you were able to solo heal some of the hardest fights of the game, you would STILL find periods where there's nothing to do but DPS.

No one's forcing you to do it, but you're objectively not playing healer up to a high standard if you choose not to. Anyone that disagrees with this is acting akin to a flat earther; it's not a debate. Perhaps there were points in time where DPSing as a healer was more hassle than it was worth due to mana constraints, but you can bet that the top players did it anyway.

He seems like this stereotype i keep seeing and talking about, that delusional wotlk/Cata raider, that cleared "HC raids" 6 months after they were relevant, with full gear + nerfs/buffs that come back into the game, and cant even play at 5% of someone that didnt quit the game even after a year or two after coming back.

Had a few of those join and disappear eventually because they simply cant handle the speed/actual difficulty (There isnt any for the stuff we do HC/+15s, but for them its hard) of WoW the last few expansions.

And no matter how hard you try to make them improve by pointing things, they simply cant and keep grapsing at straws from the past about how good they are and the game is at fault.

[Diaphin]

He seems like this stereotype i keep seeing and talking about, that delusional wotlk/Cata raider, that cleared "HC raids" 6 months after they were relevant, with full gear + nerfs/buffs that come back into the game, and cant even play at 5% of someone that didnt quit the game even after a year or two after coming back.

Had a few of those join and disappear eventually because they simply cant handle the speed/actual difficulty (There isnt any for the stuff we do HC/+15s, but for them its hard) of WoW the last few expansions.

And no matter how hard you try to make them improve by pointing things, they simply cant and keep grapsing at straws from the past about how good they are and the game is at fault.

Also old man, not going with the times being left behind.

Like, he is just unable to comprehend that the game evolved and the playerbase did too and that his heroes from back when Sinestra was the tough shit would suck ass if transported to 2021 and being expected to raid SoD Normal.