Rage quitters in m+ deserve a massive penalty

[Rageonit]

Get held hostage by terrible players that want to finish a key that takes three hours?

No, for sure not in those circumstances. Any player should be able to leave with no consequences as soon as the timer expires. You could still feel "held hostage", but god, not for three hours.
Anyway, always check the group you're in before you start. Takes less time than slogging through the key. There's probably some solid evidence out there that the boomkin shouldn't be playing on this level.

[Morae]

Im not sure why I'm even taking part in this discussion, but there should be commitment when you are part of m+ group.

Leavers leave because its waste of time or they are trolls?
You can't join another m+ or group until the remaining time left on the m+ dungeon you left has passed? So no matter what you do, you waste your time at least the equal amount if you were to leave or stay.
Also counter how many m+ you left that were not completed? No matter whether you were the one who left first or later. You are inside the m+ group and you dont complete it, a number grows by one. It should show something like sum of week or month. Legitimate players should have lower number than troll or ragequitter.

You still waste time whether you stay or leave.
You still get marked that you left early too many times whether it was for legitimate reasons or not.

Any problems with this?

[kamuimac]

At what point should someone be penalized? Any leavers, under any circumstances? Have to put splitting the group up to a vote like a kick? Get held hostage by terrible players that want to finish a key that takes three hours?

I was in 9 mists earlier tonight. I was doing low end of appropriate dps (around 4.5k), the tank was just below me for most of the run, and we had a mage doing 2k flat and a boomkin doing 800 dps. First boss took four cycles. Second boss killed both other dps on the first set of balls, with seven minutes left on the timer.
I only didn't leave because I expected somebody else to do it first, and I was right.

Ended up getting immediately invited to a 10 key that we two chested, and I was probably out of there faster than if we'd have stuck in the 9.

similiar for me - joined joined ToP18 where dps was atrocious low , left joined PF18 almost instantly timed it without slightest problems .

statisticks would should that i have 50% leave ratio there - it wouldnt show abysmal low dps of group .

[Rageonit]

similiar for me - joined joined ToP18 where dps was atrocious low , left joined PF18 almost instantly timed it without slightest problems .

statisticks would should that i have 50% leave ratio there - it wouldnt show abysmal low dps of group .

No, statistics don't work like that. Statistics do not look at a single person & his/her last two runs (or are you implying you only ever do two runs in a given season?). Statistics compare all runs of all players and let you know if you are below or above the average (or somewhere in the middle). If you are well above average of hundreds, if not thousands of players doing m+, there has to be a reason for that.

[kamuimac]

it's kind of useless system for anyone that plays a lot... i've played closer to 2000 runs of m+ in SL at this point... even if i would leave 100 in a row it would barely register...

it takes 1-3 pulls in most cases and then you know if it's worth saying with the group or if you should just leave...

agreed 100 %.

if you do enough groups you very very fast see if it will be failure or not.

im sure people will claim that it isnt so - but its true in 95% of cases.

[Morae]

People legitimately DCing would be harmed by this, but you can't exactly extrapolate between someone who legitimately loses power and someone who throws a power switch at their house or pulls a power cable out of a router... I don't think, anyway, unless they ping the in-between connections like their ISP/DNS to verify the disconnect...? Maybe that could work?

It would also have to be an account-wide timer when it was done, so that people don't just jump to an alt to skip the timer restrictions.

If a person is DCing in m+, do you want that person in m+?

Reason doesn't matter. If you cant stay and/or repeatedly leave it, you shouldn't be in there.

[Specialka]

lol... how the fuck would you know if you're going to dc or not?

If you know that your internet is unreliable ? But true enough that sometimes, even good internet can crash down.

[Jervaise]

I have an outrageously ridiculous idea: Make some friends, and do dungeons with them. You can find them in game; you know, playing the game.

[Cuppy]

Penalty sure is needed. Blacklisting is useless because no one is willing to run 100 000 dungeons to get 50 000 leavers out of their system.
I’d say lock the dungeon, and make the player unable to join any other dungeon until they finish that dungeon. EG: Person leaves after 3rd boss. They now have to finish that dungeon with any group they can find, so they propably don’t want to leave because... well, they can finish it right away or waste time and just go again.
I wouldn’t mind. Not even when I have to leave in the middle due to some IRL thing, I can run it again.

[LanToaster]

lol... how the fuck would you know if you're going to dc or not?

Not saying that "Leave Statistic" would be any good. But if you once in ages loose Connection, this wouldnt be an Issue, and get drowned in the statistics.
Dunno how the Internet is elsewhere, but I almost never get people randomly DC and have outages. The people I know who actually have problems with their Internet Provider can almost set their Clocks to when the Problems occur, and choose to not do stuff where a lost connection screws it up.

If you get DCed every other Run, you should fix your connection and not bother everyone else with that to be honest.

[Rageonit]

it's kind of useless system for anyone that plays a lot... i've played closer to 2000 runs of m+ in SL at this point... even if i would leave 100 in a row it would barely register...

it takes 1-3 pulls in most cases and then you know if it's worth saying with the group or if you should just leave...

No, it's not useless, because after 2000 runs we already know if you're a leaver or not, since your leaver % is well established. So the system already did its job, and that's the whole point. If you're not a leaver, you probably won't leave 100 runs in a row just for shits and giggles. I mean, maybe you would, who knows, there are people in the world doing most idiotic things you could ever imagine, but the vast, vast majority of players wouldn't. And statistics are based on vast majority, not on Sugarcube and her idea to drop 100 runs in a row.

[Specialka]

No, it's not useless, because after 2000 runs we already know if you're a leaver or not, since your leaver % is well established. That's the whole point. If you're not a leaver, you probably won't leave 100 runs in a row just for shits and giggles. I mean, maybe you would, who knows, there are people in the world doing most idiotic things you could ever imagine, but vast, vast majority of players wouldn't do that. And statistics are based on vast majority, not on Sugarcube.

You can have your % of leaves IF we get a system to cancel a key once it has started if 3 or 4 people out of 5 vote for it. In 18+, people do not want to bother with a key if they do not make the timer.

[Rageonit]

i drop runs in a heartbeat if it looks like it's going to be a rough run lol...

That's completely fine - it's your right to do that. And I just want to know you do that; no punishment required, I only want to know this simple little fact.

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You can have your % of leaves IF we get a system to cancel a key once it has started if 3 or 4 people out of 5 vote for it. In 18+, people do not want to bother with a key if they do not make the timer.

A system like that would be an absolute necessity. Players need the right to vote their way out of a bad run with no consequences.

[Specialka]

That's completely fine - it's your right to do that. And I just want to know you do that; no punishment required, I only want to know this simple little fact.

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A system like that would be an absolute necessity. Players need the right to vote their way out of a bad run with no consequences.

Then we are in agreement. But until it is implemented, I will leave keys if we do not make it in time or if I see that the tank is doing stupid stuff, though I am rarely the first to leave in my group.

[Lolites]

Yes, and on average, we all get similar numbers of good and bad runs.

statisticaly speaking, sure
in reality? hell no

[Rageonit]

Then we are in agreement. But until it is implemented, I will leave keys if we do not make it in time or if I see that the tank is doing stupid stuff, though I am rarely the first to leave in my group.

Do not take my idea for criticism aimed at players who leave bad runs. I do that too, and I would do it still after the implementation of the system. I also believe that most players do it, and that most of us would be firmly ranked somewhere close to the average leaver % (that's how averages work, anyway).
But it's still valuable knowledge to see that a certain player has a well above average leaver % (or well below for that matter). Says something about both.

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statisticaly speaking, sure
in reality? hell no

For a large sample of runs? Yeah, I think we do, so the most important question to answer would be: what's the reasonable threshold of runs to start showing the leaver %? If we both do 3 runs, I might get 3 good and you - 3 bad. But what if we do 30...?
Of course, there's also the so-called "common denominator"

[Huzzaa]

Why is this even a topic?

Like 1st page, someone says, non-issue.

Exactly that, non-issue.

Bad groups have this problem of people leaving, because the folks in there are baad.
A smooth run doesn't experience this by default.

The odd-ball DC and other problem doesn't mean that we need to start changing the entire system so that they get pUnIsHed.

[Xorzor]

Just a stray thought: how about resetting their M+ score to zero?

[Rageonit]

statisticaly speaking, sure
in reality? hell no

Oh, and one more thing. The onus is on you to check who you group with. If you sign blindly to any key, you will, on average, get more bad runs, true - but you are partly to blame. Do your research - doesn't take much time - and granted, you will have more succesful runs.
That's why information is important. Warcraftlogs, raider.io - make use of it. If they ever implement this leaver % thing (doubtful) and you invite a guy with above average % - who will be to blame if he scrams?

[Lolites]

No, quite on the contrary. It is actually the truth: good players drop runs sometimes, and most of all, good players KNOW that sometimes you have to do it. And those are the players you want to group with, for a smooth and nice experience. So good (and sane) players will always have some leaver % and understand the reasons behind it. Do I (as a healer) drop group sometimes, because I don't want to carry DPS who have zero regards for mechanics and take insane amount of damage? Sure I do! Any decent player understands why. People who expect you to have 0% leaver are unrealistic, I very much doubt if I'd lose anything by not being invited by them.

But if your leaver % is notably higher than that of an average player, you have to understand that - by law of average numbers - you somehow got yourself into a minority. And if you're a minority, it means you've maybe lived in the realm of fantasy, thinking that everyone around you drops runs all the time. Or maybe you're like the guy above who destroys random people's keys in petty revenge.

lets look at the situation, person have 95% completition rate in your system
how the HELL would you know if he left those dungeons bcs he is idiot, or bcs he wasnt willing to carry idiots?
the system only tells you he left, not if there actualy was good reason behind it...
not to mention, morons who can barely play their class who invite good players to carry them would RARELY left first, so person having high completition rate might be dead weight as much as asset, that % system tells you absolutely nothing about that...