Why were Kul Tirans added, but Ogres are still not playable?

[DatToffer]

Idk man, the longer I look at this the more I feel like the dimorphism isn't really restricted to the monstrous races. Apart from that the image you posted is very much exaggerated. Draenei males are broad but they're not this huge. If you place a human male next to a human female the difference in size and shape is actually very similar to that of Orcs/Tauren or Draenei. It's just that all males in Warcraft (with a few exceptions) are body building hulks that are twice the size of their female counterparts.

Oh well. I guess I was wrong and the outdated mentality that brings this sexual dimorphism affects all races, then.

Males can't be anything but muscley, so it's not sexism. Both genders of every race are stuck with stock views, not just the females. It's a really old game engine and sliders won't work with the game at all because of how the legacy code works, would require them to rebuild the entire engine, redo every armor set, etc.

You can't say to me that every male isnt also in their most genric "sexy self".

Okay. I'll have to reformulate.

It's a videogame made mostly by boys, for boys. It has become very obvious since that interview resurfaced with a girl saying "Can we have females that are not out of a Victoria Secret magazine ?" and the team responding "lol which magazine do you want them to be out of ? lol"

So it has to appeal to boys right ? So, sexy women and cool monsters. Sexy women and cool monsters are what we have.

And no, every male is not in the most generic sexy self. Ask your girlfriend maybe, but I doubt the hunched orcs and trolls are the most appealing to girls. I doubt that the very obese pandarens are the generic beauty standard for men.

At most, the orcs and humans are like He-man, what men think men should look like. This is where the sexism lies. The vision of a male team aiming at a male audience and dictating the design. As I said, it is not the most terribly harmful form of sexism.

It's just the dying hard frustrating habit of the industry and IMO the reason why female ogres have yet to be made ingame. Blizz just can't make an honestly decent ugly woman, because they think the playerbase won't play it.

And apparently, given the popularity of the Kul tiran females, the playerbase is proving them right.
(Although I don't know what would have happened if they actually had the balls to make a big angry woman design instead of what we have here, some girls that look neither buffed nor fat and looking quite bland instead of tough.)

[Ivarr]

Well they did model the absolute terror that was the Beta Female Troll before they were changed into essentially human females with troll hands and feet with tusks on their face.

Way better than what we currently got.

[username993720]

They are too big.

Actually, they are not. Rexxar is just a bit taller than an Orc. Just like a Tauren. That would be the solution.

Maybe but I think it's also mentioned in John Staats book on WoW development that ogres were not made playable in vanilla because no one wanted to model theire females.

They were considered for Cataclysm instead of Goblins.

2) Ogres were literally the enemy, not an allied race to us.

Well, in BfA a faction of them joined the Horde alongside the Mag'har.

I mean, there would have even been a lore reason for some of the Vrykul to join the Alliance since the Warchief of the Horde literally tried to enslave the leader of the Valarjar.

Kyrian use a modified female Vrykul skeleton. So, you might get playable Vrykul in the future.

Ogres, centaurs, and many other races SHOULD have been added in years ago over the lazy and cheap reskins we were given.

Centaurs are four legged creatures and therefore cannot be added as a playable race.

I thought one of the main reasons they haven't been added is that they are simply too big and wouldn't fit through most doors of the game and scaling them down would look straight up stupid.

Rexxar is just a bit taller than an Orc. So, that size would be a perfect solution.

Also they have only been portrayed as dumb brutes in WoW and honestly, why would you want to play as that?
I'd prefer to play something with more than 2 braincells, and no, having two heads sharing said braincells doesn't help.

They were given intelligence in WoD. They are no longer dumb brutes.

Kul Tirans are just reskinned humans. Vulpera are just reskinned goblins.

Kul Tirans are not reskinned Humans. They have a totally new skeleton, which makes you think why they put so much effort into an allied race in a feature that reuses skeletons.

Ogres probably require too much work to reskin a Tauren and still look acceptable...besides they already reskinned Tauren.

Ogres would not use the Tauren skeleton.

The only hope for playable "ogres" is Mok'nathal, using Rexxar's new model.

Blizzard has never introduced a hybrid race before as a playable race. Only as customization.

Females, yes. Males, no. At most, they may have started with vrykul skeletons, but they're so heavily modified, they may as well be considered their own thing.

The females are completely new, as well. They are not modified Vrykul skeletons.

Ogres don’t bring anything new to Horde.

Ancient Rome culture?

Kul'tirans aren't ogres. Cmon now. It's not like you could give the model to the horde and call them ogres with a new paint job.

They did it with Rexxar and with the Maldraxxian Gladiators.

Horde got Vulpera, instead of those sea goblins

We'd probably get them in the future, because there is no reason for them to add a female model and have them wait in Durotar to join the Horde.

If you want Ogres, well... i want Sethrak on the alliance. It is what it is.

Highly likely, as a lot of effort was put into their model and animations.

Ogres were not an allied race on Draenor so they are not an "allied race". I hope that makes sense, I can't put it any simpler.

The Alternate Stonemaul Ogres joined the Horde alongside the Mag'har in BfA.

Not even mentioning how you would even make that big a race playable.

Rexxar is only slightly taller than an upright Orc, like a Tauren.

Sorry. Its pretty hard to spin that into playable race that represents men and women when ogres can ONLY make other male ogres.

Unlikely that this is the case today.

i think there is 3 issues with it.
1 The only Orges in the horde are the Stonemaul i believe and they are very few in numbers lesser then the void elves(lore wise)

Blood elves were introduced with 10% of their population remaining. It doesn't really affect gameplay or story.

2 in all of wows lifetime, we have not seen a single female

Outside sources did.

3 This is regarding classes, because Mana users, IE mages, Shamans warlocks, which id guess they all have,Orges skilled with magic, tend to have 2 heads so like how do you work that in for the PC? A special racial? a chnce for spells to double cast? Double Intellect?

Just animate the two heads. That's it.

High elves? pff no, you get these totally new elves no one asked that robbed you of your chance of getting krokul

What makes you think that?
The Krokul got the Draenei skeleton, which could potentially make them playable in the future.

IMO they should just have a male only option even if it means that girl players might miss out on playing their own gender.

Unrealistic and wouldn't happen. All playable races have a male and a female. So would the Ogres. They would simply use the female Kul Tiran skeleton and would be based on outside sources of the race.

Could you imagine the armor stretching? Kul'tirans are bulky but they're not fat. Ogres are fat in all capital letters.

Are you sure about that?

For the same reason people have been asking for High Elves for the last 15 years but Blizzard only continues to mock and insult their playerbase for daring to ask for it: because Blizzard doesn't care and has contempt for their fandom.

High elves were the same race as Blood elves. Ogres are a totally new race.

Which faction would benefit from introducing ogres to their midst?

Ogres were, literally, members of every Horde incarnation: the Old Horde, the Dark Horde, the Horde of Draenor, the Fel Horde, the New Horde and the Iron Horde. I think that alone justifies their addition to the Horde.

[Soulwind]

The females are completely new, as well. They are not modified Vrykul skeletons.

No, male Kul'Tiran are (maybe) modified vrykul (the stance, mostly), the females are definitely built on female humans.

[Nagawithlegs]

Ancient Rome culture?

Not only do Highborne already have Ancient Rome culture but Highmaul was a sad excuse for a "zone" that didn't have any interesting culture for the Ogres besides a colosseum and some pillars. So calling it a "culture" is a bit much.

[Ivarr]

This is my point. I know that the cartoonish style of warcraft allows for stylisation, but don't you think that there's in general more gap between the male and female of a same race, than in females of different races ?

The males aren't submissive and breedable enough for you?

[Daedius]

Kul'Tirans as a 'race' of hardy sea faring people made sense because of it's direct relation to Jaina and the Proudmoores in BfA who owned the largest fleet.

[DatToffer]

The males aren't submissive and breedable enough for you?

I am not a Twitter artist !

[Nagawithlegs]

Kul'Tirans as a 'race' of hardy sea faring people made sense because of it's direct relation to Jaina and the Proudmoores in BfA who owned the largest fleet.

Well the large ones are hinted at being a sub-race of Vrykul/Human half-breeds, thus actually being a new race. But they should have let you be both human and half-Drust as a KT.

[Nerovar]

Kyrian use a modified female Vrykul skeleton. So, you might get playable Vrykul in the future.

Because they reccyled some assets? Doesn't seem likely.

[Bodakane]

Screw ogres. Give us mogu.

[username993720]

No, male Kul'Tiran are (maybe) modified vrykul (the stance, mostly), the females are definitely built on female humans.

Pretty sure they are both original.
You have any source for that?

Not only do Highborne already have Ancient Rome culture but Highmaul was a sad excuse for a "zone" that didn't have any interesting culture for the Ogres besides a colosseum and some pillars. So calling it a "culture" is a bit much.

Highborne are not Ancient Rome, but Greece.

Because they reccyled some assets? Doesn't seem likely.

Because they modified a race's skeleton to be almost on playable terms.

Screw ogres. Give us mogu.

Why not both?

[Bodakane]

Why not both?

Ok, but mogu should be priority.

[DatToffer]

Here you have it guys. Reasons for no ogres. With a bonus on why we didn't get nagas, demons and goblins in vanilla.

[qwerty123456]

They specifically said they made Kul'tirans big and fat so they would have a big fat base for future races(ogres). I'm sure when an expansion needs em they will make em playable.

[Nerovar]

Oh well. I guess I was wrong and the outdated mentality that brings this sexual dimorphism affects all races, then.



Okay. I'll have to reformulate.

It's a videogame made mostly by boys, for boys. It has become very obvious since that interview resurfaced with a girl saying "Can we have females that are not out of a Victoria Secret magazine ?" and the team responding "lol which magazine do you want them to be out of ? lol"

So it has to appeal to boys right ? So, sexy women and cool monsters. Sexy women and cool monsters are what we have.

And no, every male is not in the most generic sexy self. Ask your girlfriend maybe, but I doubt the hunched orcs and trolls are the most appealing to girls. I doubt that the very obese pandarens are the generic beauty standard for men.

At most, the orcs and humans are like He-man, what men think men should look like. This is where the sexism lies. The vision of a male team aiming at a male audience and dictating the design. As I said, it is not the most terribly harmful form of sexism.

It's just the dying hard frustrating habit of the industry and IMO the reason why female ogres have yet to be made ingame. Blizz just can't make an honestly decent ugly woman, because they think the playerbase won't play it.

And apparently, given the popularity of the Kul tiran females, the playerbase is proving them right.
(Although I don't know what would have happened if they actually had the balls to make a big angry woman design instead of what we have here, some girls that look neither buffed nor fat and looking quite bland instead of tough.)

I don't really get what you're arguing for here. Somehow characters need to look less "sexy" and more androgynous (?) even though - as you said yourself - barely anyone wants to play the already existing non-sexy characters. At the same time you're giving Blizzard flack for not being able to make ugly female character models and then list and example of an ugly female model?

I don't really get what you would like to see changed in the game.

[username993720]

Ok, but mogu should be priority.

Why, when Ogres were part of the Horde since its inception?

Still, no need to fret. The Rajani Mogu would most likely join us.

Here you have it guys. Reasons for no ogres. With a bonus on why we didn't get nagas, demons and goblins in vanilla.

And yet Ogres were considered for Cataclysm and Goblins were added in that expansion.

I don't see the reason for focusing on its attractiveness so much. It's a monstrous race. It should be fearsome and repulsive.

They specifically said they made Kul'tirans big and fat so they would have a big fat base for future races(ogres).

Exactly. That's why Maldraxxus Gladiators got them as well.

[Triceron]

Women are attracted to men with layers. And ogres have layers.

I can see it now - Blizzard gives players what they have been asking for - playable Ogres.

Cept instead of looking like the traditional WoW Ogre, they all look like Shrek and Fiona.

[HateTrain]

Rather have Mok'nathal.

[Pakheth]

Screw ogres. Give us mogu.

Heck yes!

They even have both male and female models so shouldn't be too hard?