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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Chelly View Post
    Except he does play WoW.

    Some massive amount of copium in this thread.
    Careful, already got an infraction for saying something similar - guess one of the mods still has the Copium syringe stuck in their arm.

  2. #182
    Coming soon: WoW APIs to be temporarily closed for a spurious "security reason" and never opened again.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazmalak View Post
    I suspect his numbers are a rough estimate, but not totally inaccurate. No one I know plays the game anymore. Anectdotal? Sure. How many of you have a lot of gray names in your guild and friend lists?
    Dead friends list except for three people playing TBC on and off.

    The game has been losing players for years, just in small numbers over a long time with the occasional big drop. It doesn´t matter if these numbers are not 100% accurate. The original peak in WotlK wasn´t accurate either, claiming you have 12m subs when half of your playerbase doesn´t have a sub option should be quite obviously bs. It has been a trend for long time proven by Blizzards own MAU numbers, who are dropping like flies.

    It just has reached a point where enough players where fed up. The magic is gone for them, and I don´t think many will come back. The old fanboy saying “they always come back” has been proven wrong in the light of constantly diminishing active players.

    The next quarterly report will be interesting. Maybe they manage to shove out fresh classic servers before that to make the numbers look better. Not to mention long time subs who will still count into their numbers. Give it 2-3 quarter reports and it will get really interesting.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Some of his data also includes being part of a covenant.
    Is choosing a covenant in SL now considered "optional"?

    Most peope just don't watch the video, see a Yotubuer / Streamer and basically go "fuck that shit", hence most replies are a weird mixture of pure copium and deflections.

    I'm not saying those numbers are accurate, but they certainly show a not so good trend, especially the "cyclical game has a cyclical playerbase" argument is damn stupid in the light of the fact that this data includes 9.1 release.

    Imagine how those numbers will look by the end of the year, because 9.2 will certainly not come out until early 22.
    Lol I guess technically. DoubleAgent is level 60 without even leaving the Panda turtle.

    And yes, you cant dismiss these numbers because they use the same data method. If over time it trends down, then most likely the general story is trending down. The copium in this thread is hilarious.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    I'm seeing people keep saying that player numbers don't matter when "WoW is increasingly focused on whales".

    Well, you said it yourself, didn't you? If a game has to become dependent on whales, then the game isn't truly popular anymore. It's being subsidized by a small group of wealthy addicts. It's like saying comics are still popular because a few hundred comic addicts keep buying the super collectors edition covers and such. ​X-Men was cancelled for "low sales" in 1969 but it was still selling almost 250,000 copies per issue per month. Marvel was selling a million books a month. Today, a "good run" is selling 5,000 books total. We're talking a 95% reduction in sales compared to the good 'ole days. That's where WoW is at right now. This game used to have 12 million subscribers! And now it likely has 1.2 million or less (class WoW and retail WoW players combined). And Shadowlands' launch barely made a blip in the gaming news, unlike prior expansions. There is no way to spin that as "so what? My the game I worship is still doing fine! Bobby Kotick is smarter than you!".
    I saw a video where someone compared sub and income from ActiBlizz's quarterly reports. Even though the amount of subs has fallen to nearly half, Blizz's income has stayed relatively the same in terms of quantity.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    And Shadowlands' launch barely made a blip in the gaming news, unlike prior expansions.
    Imagine writing this and believing it to be true. Or you're just dishonest.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/world...140000053.html

    Just the highest selling PC game by launch day, ever.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by cirdanx View Post
    The old fanboy saying “they always come back” has been proven wrong in the light of constantly diminishing active players.
    i would say sales numbers of expansion breaking records both with BFA and SL (not sure if legion too) proves them right...
    and given we have literaly no other official numbers, im not sure what "proves" them wrong, except your anecdotal "Dead friends list"... but i guess if someone wants to find "evidence" of whatever he already believes reality seldom gets in his way...
    Last edited by Lolites; 2021-08-22 at 08:21 PM.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmist View Post
    Coming soon: WoW APIs to be temporarily closed for a spurious "security reason" and never opened again.
    Nah they are going to earn insane amounts of money, i heard they are going to start selling tinfoil hats on the gear store.

  9. #189
    High Overlord Fiacla's Avatar
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    As others have pointed out earlier in the thread, Bellular is indeed a clickbait merchant, who barely plays WoW or the other MMOs he advertises.

    Though I would like to highlight something others in this thread have touched on.

    Bellular has had co-ownership of a company Coffee Box Games, since Aug 2015. The primary source of funding for this venture comes from patreon (since 2017 anyway). Bellular often plugs his patreon in his vids, promoting his "upcoming" game The Pale Beyond. Trouble is, with the exception of a website with half a paragraph of text, Coffee Box Games have produced nothing. No trailer, no clips, no alpha footage, no playable demo, no level artwork, nothing...in 6 years.

    I have brought this up on Bells stream before, why Bellular is raking in an estimated $11k per month on just patreon, yet Coffee Box Games has nothing to show for it. All it got me was a shadow ban. Echo chambers and such I guess .

    Anyway, can't wait for Bells "masterpiece" to come out, hopefully it's before the heat death of the universe.

  10. #190
    I hear a lot of deflection but not evidence.

    If you think his numbers are wrong, get on and show us yours. No one cares about word salad.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    i would say sales numbers of expansion breaking records both with BFA and SL (not sure if legion too) proves them right...
    and given we have literaly no other official numbers, im not sure what "proves" them wrong, except your anecdotal "Dead friends list"... but i guess if someone wants to find "evidence" of whatever he already believes reality seldom gets in his way...
    You know people coming back for expansion start is nothing new. There are a lot of reasons for that, just as there are a lot of reasons people leave.

    I have bought past expansions as well...because there was nostalgia, the hope that Blizzard can turn the game around, curiosity etc. For a short time profit this is good, but when the players leave in droves after a short time then no, it doesn´t prove them right. The players would stay if the game would be good for them and obviously it isn´t.

    The friends list had nothing to do with the rest and was an answer to someone else. I know, reading is hard. And you don´t need any official number other then their MAUs, which show they have lost almost half of their player base in just 4 years. And that was before the dissatisfaction with the latest (beta) patch and content creator/player flight that followed that and their little PR problem with the law suit. That number proves that they DON´T come back.

    You of course can believe otherwise and indulge in your cognitive dissonance that seems to ride so many die hard Blizzard defenders. Because that´s better than taking criticism to heart and actually try to persuade Blizzard in improving the game. But hey at last new cosmetics am I right? Ha. Can´t wait for the next out of place store mount with another 6 month sub just right before the next quarterly report.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    Imagine writing this and believing it to be true. Or you're just dishonest.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/world...140000053.html

    Just the highest selling PC game by launch day, ever.
    A year long presale heavily pushed by cosmetic incentives with consoldiated global lunch to the minute and preloading and pre-access to the game for everyone a month in advance certainly helps with that metric as well.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    this time there is actual clear data that shows the player base is gone in scary numbers
    1. "actual clear data"....addon download numbers are not clear data

    2. people have been doomsaying "WOW IS DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" for literally about 15 years now, to claim that "this time they're right!" is just lunacy.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    i haven't played 'retail' in 2 years, and i haven't played 'classic' in 1 year, please tell me as someone who has played the game at the highest levels, and as a casual player on and off for the lifespan of this game, how am i 'uninformed' when i have said 'WoW is dying/dead' for years now, and the trend has just kept going, it's not rocket science to see a trend, identify that it will get worse, and here we are, it got worse, and now everyone is surprised to find out that (not counting china) worldwide the game has barely 1 MILLION total unique players assuming an avg alt count of 2-3/person.
    People have been going on about WoW dying for more then 15 years, and it is especially those that are not playing it propagating this opinion because - and here is the secret - they WANT it to be true. With "uninformed" I mostly meant that people who aren't playing do not know what is happening ingame and getting all their information from people like our beloved Bellular, who clear have an agenda against the game.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiacla View Post
    As others have pointed out earlier in the thread, Bellular is indeed a clickbait merchant, who barely plays WoW or the other MMOs he advertises.

    Though I would like to highlight something others in this thread have touched on.

    Bellular has had co-ownership of a company Coffee Box Games, since Aug 2015. The primary source of funding for this venture comes from patreon (since 2017 anyway). Bellular often plugs his patreon in his vids, promoting his "upcoming" game The Pale Beyond. Trouble is, with the exception of a website with half a paragraph of text, Coffee Box Games have produced nothing. No trailer, no clips, no alpha footage, no playable demo, no level artwork, nothing...in 6 years.

    I have brought this up on Bells stream before, why Bellular is raking in an estimated $11k per month on just patreon, yet Coffee Box Games has nothing to show for it. All it got me was a shadow ban. Echo chambers and such I guess .

    Anyway, can't wait for Bells "masterpiece" to come out, hopefully it's before the heat death of the universe.
    Seems like you’re quite anticipated for his game xD
    DRAGONFLIGHT BETA CLUB

  16. #196
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr View Post
    Less than optimal when the business model relies on monthly subscriptions.
    That's arguable. The business model seems to rely more on expansion sales to pay for the game. Monthly subscriptions are gravy on top of that.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Chelly View Post
    Except he does play WoW.

    Some massive amount of copium in this thread.
    Just because he makes 14 videos of a week about a game he actively dislikes for money doesnt mean hes still playing it. Hes getting money from a largely former WoW audience who have WoW living rent free in their heads and need another dose of Bellular to validate their opinion that WoW is bad. He even said about 69% of his audience via a twitch poll did not currently play WoW -- as they watch two men talk 90-95% about WoW.

    Get over it. He's a smart business man -- but he's not playing WoW. Like how he isnt playing FF14.
    Last edited by TidalConflux; 2021-08-22 at 08:49 PM.

  18. #198
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    It surprises me that WoW still performed bad during a freaking pandemic.
    I don't know why you would say that. People lost jobs. There was a ton of economic uncertainty (still is). Video game subscriptions are an easy thing to stop in those kind of circumstances. Not everyone did that of course but it seems logical that quite a few households cut back on expenses so it doesn't seem all that surprising.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I don't know why you would say that. People lost jobs. There was a ton of economic uncertainty (still is). Video game subscriptions are an easy thing to stop in those kind of circumstances. Not everyone did that of course but it seems logical that quite a few households cut back on expenses so it doesn't seem all that surprising.
    The gaming industry overall saw a MASSIVE increase. So, yeah.. People didn't cut expenses on games - they cut expenses on WoW.

  20. #200
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    The gaming industry overall saw a MASSIVE increase. So, yeah.. People didn't cut expenses on games - they cut expenses on WoW.
    You're not taking into account Blizzard's rather archaic notion that $15/month is required to play. It would be interesting to see just exactly where the growth lies during the pandemic. My guess it was in FTP stuff. I could be wrong. I've seen some articles here and there but nothing that breaks out different revenue models. Another MMO generated a lot of growth by opening up the entire game minus the latest expansion to play free. It's different scenarios is all. No doubt, WoW is in a less-than-good place right now. I've posted about how the game has become over-engineered and too fiddly.

    As with all things, it's not black and white. That $15/month bill though is a different thing psychologically than FTP and buying stuff occasionally from a game store.

    If you have some links about how different revenue models performed over the last 18 months I'd be interested.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

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