Do Healers have to DPS now during down time in between heals?

[Kyanion]

It could mean (and I mean could) that he was just missing one dungeon and he did it all from 0 to 15 that day.

And it is far more likely that there was a carry involved. Either way that season started in like December and they didn't get the achievement until Feb, not exactly pushing top tier shit there.

[Specialka]

And it is far more likely that there was a carry involved. Either way that season started in like December and they didn't get the achievement until Feb, not exactly pushing top tier shit there.

I kind of disagree in the sense where i also got the KSM on the 6th of february. And i was pushing at my rythm because i have a work and a family to take care of. I also mostly pugged my run.

[Kyanion]

I kind of disagree in the sense where i also got the KSM on the 6th of february. And i was pushing at my rythm because i have a work and a family to take care of. I also mostly pugged my run.

Sure and there is nothing wrong with taking your time in doing it, but you're not trying to come off as a know it all expert on the game like kenn is. You're not trying to use 10 year old experiences on your server as what it was like for all players either. All I'm saying is that getting the 5/10/15 done on the same day is very fishy.

[Specialka]

Sure and there is nothing wrong with taking your time in doing it, but you're not trying to come off as a know it all expert on the game like kenn is. You're not trying to use 10 year old experiences on your server as what it was like for all players either. All I'm saying is that getting the 5/10/15 done on the same day is very fishy.

That is true. You would prefer to do all the dungeon step by step to raise your io so you would not get rejected as much by pug group.

On the other side, most people do not even try to read and understand arguments as soon as they do not like the poster. That goes both side.

[Diaphin]

[QUOTE=kenn9530;53349272]The perception you have on how something works is not actually how it works, you have not proved anything you have said. I have proved what i have done in WoW when you have not even done the content itself.[quote]

You haven'T done the content properly either, you bought it with real life money. For a game you don't care about.

You dont even know what you are saying, skill floor and skill ceiling have nothing to do with content in WoW it has to do with the class itself and how well you play the class, we were talking about the actual content itself not the individual class so you just like to put out irrelevant things to make it look like you are smarter than you are. Content is designed around the capabilities of the classes a game has.

Actually yes. The Skill Floor for a certain class is always determined by the current content. Like, you know that the skill requirements are lower in LFR than in mythic? And especially with healers they are hughly determined by content because, yet again, healing is pure reactive.

[Temp name]

healing is pure reactive.

Disc and resto druid isn't since they need their shields/hots on people when the damage hits

But yeah, by and large it's reactive

[Diaphin]

Disc and resto druid isn't since they need their shields/hots on people when the damage hits

But yeah, by and large it's reactive

You are right in this regard, those these mechanics also increase downtimes because they make players heal without further input or give them additional effective health which doesn't needs to be healed, so I guess Kenny hates them.

[Galluccio]

Not really, healers have pretty much one AoE button and one ST button. But yes, damage is expected.

Also, FFXIV is kinda different in that on most fights upwards of 80% of the damage is avoidable, so really you have a lot more downtime if your DPS are onto it.

No. I disagree. I expect no damage from healers. The fact is I’m the best player in the world that I know about. So, my ego is massive and my statements are final.

[kenn9530]

snip

You can think i got carried all you want, but the truth is i just did the bare min mythic plus dungeons that guildies were doing, was in no rush to get KSM because the content just bores me, plus shaman was not my first main char i switched from paladin to shaman because it was boring and didnt even decide to do any raiding until a few months into the expansion. The groups i did all the M+ with are the same ppl over and over i raid with so just a sad attempt to insult me.

The statement just means that a WF raider is not really more skilled than any other that is capable of clearing all the content, all a WF raider has is the time to invest in doing it and the motivation to do tedius things like have several chars all at the same level.

I played new patch for 1 week or so jumped into a raid and was too bored to even continue playing. I completed 24 15s and did very few keys lower than that on the shaman, i dont have the gold or real money to waste on paying for a boost, but if it makes you feel better then feel free to believe what you want.

I didnt even decide to start raiding until the 7th raid week and that was starting on a paladin that was not enjoyable to play.

snip

If it makes you feel better feel free to think that i paid for a boost, just because you have lost the argument and dont have the skill to do any of the content yourself. You can clearly see the groups i was in everytime and it was the same ppl i was raiding with so your logic of it being boosted is just a sad attempt at an insult.

Skill is determined by the player/class not the content, the content is always designed around what the actual classes can do, but currently healers have no fights where they are actually pushed to the limit. Healing is also not purely reactive yet another thing you have no idea about.

snip

100% healing uptime with no damage uptime does not mean the fight changes all that much it just means healers have just enough strain to be required to heal all the time, with enough damage incomming to make it difficult to do damage as a healer, not every fight has to be a healing check but currently there is no fights that actually push a healers limits.

That is true. You would prefer to do all the dungeon step by step to raise your io so you would not get rejected as much by pug group.

On the other side, most people do not even try to read and understand arguments as soon as they do not like the poster. That goes both side.

He just doesnt understand that you can level an alt and play with friends/guildies and go straight to 15s for the actual reward you are aiming for in the first place, raiderio means nothing if you dont need to pug.

[Empower]

Raid bosses die too fast as it is, it should take weeks of gearing for even the best players to clear current content, not getting cleared in a week but thats another problem WoW has.

I don't think that is possible anymore... the high end of wow has gotten better and better as time has gone on. As much as I hate to personally admit it even your average lfr player has progressed skill wise.

I don't think we will ever see those slow clears unless they make gear gains from raids astronomical. I am talking 30 ilvs between heroic and mythic levels of crazy.

[Temp name]

I don't think that is possible anymore... the high end of wow has gotten better and better as time has gone on. As much as I hate to personally admit it even your average lfr player has progressed skill wise.

I don't think we will ever see those slow clears unless they make gear gains from raids astronomical. I am talking 30 ilvs between heroic and mythic levels of crazy.

And then it'll be boring progress.
Cue the "mathematically impossible" memes.

Seriously, if you need x amount of dps, but you only have 90% of x, and won't get that last 10% for another week or two, then that feels awful. You have literally 0 chance of killing the boss, so you'll just stop raiding for the week.. And then who cares about coming back next week if you still don't have the dps
And just like that, you probably have a dead guild.

And if he means so mechanically complex it'll take weeks/months? Cool, no one outside of world top 50 will ever have even a chance, and then you have a *lot* of dead guilds and players unsubbing

[Rubim]

And then it'll be boring progress.
Cue the "mathematically impossible" memes.

Seriously, if you need x amount of dps, but you only have 90% of x, and won't get that last 10% for another week or two, then that feels awful. You have literally 0 chance of killing the boss, so you'll just stop raiding for the week.. And then who cares about coming back next week if you still don't have the dps
And just like that, you probably have a dead guild.

And if he means so mechanically complex it'll take weeks/months? Cool, no one outside of world top 50 will ever have even a chance, and then you have a *lot* of dead guilds and players unsubbing

He has proven time and time again that he does not understands what he asks.

Even if its an unpopular opinion. It's the same for people wanting Tier Sets back without understanding how that will affect your weekly chest, aka, it will make some slots useless, similar to how Domination Sockets make some slots useless. Diminishes the value of Mythic+ as well.

[kenn9530]

He has proven time and time again that he does not understands what he asks.

Even if its an unpopular opinion. It's the same for people wanting Tier Sets back without understanding how that will affect your weekly chest, aka, it will make some slots useless, similar to how Domination Sockets make some slots useless. Diminishes the value of Mythic+ as well.

I do understand everything i would want in a game, i want a challange with actual meaningful content, if you are happy with a mediocre game and gameplay then thats up to you. So it is you who doesnt understand anything or actually want the game to be better.

[Specialka]

I do understand everything i would want in a game, i want a challange with actual meaningful content, if you are happy with a mediocre game and gameplay then thats up to you. So it is you who doesnt understand anything or actually want the game to be better.

In your opinion. I find the current gameplay satisfying. If you tuned the game for 100% heal uptime, a slight fucked up by the healer would mean a wipe.

[kenn9530]

In your opinion. I find the current gameplay satisfying. If you tuned the game for 100% heal uptime, a slight fucked up by the healer would mean a wipe.

100% healing uptime wouldnt mean too much damage always coming in, it would mean healers would have those extra 50-70 gcds to spend on actually healing instead of doing damage, it would just mean less chances for healers to be able to actually do damage instead of doing it every chance they get, there can be balanced fights where there is always steady damage coming and fights where healers might struggle.

[Rubim]

I do understand everything i would want in a game, i want a challange with actual meaningful content, if you are happy with a mediocre game and gameplay then thats up to you. So it is you who doesnt understand anything or actually want the game to be better.

We discussed this. You dont want challange content.

You want challange raid content. There's a big difference on that.

---

What you're talking is not objectile better. You failing to understand that is actually pretty weird.

[Dropakeg]

Thing is, in mythic raiding there already exists challenging content.

We're working on mythic Soulrender currently, have a few 10% wipes, and that is a fight with constant aoe damage and huge raid damage spikes - we need every bit of 5 healers for it, and you better believe we expect as much dps as possible from our healers, while they are also putting out 12-14k hps.

This thread is pretty silly.

If you don't want to dps as a healer, then don't. It's not bad game design, you just won't be pushing 20s any time soon. Oh and BTW, 20s give you nothing over 15s in terms of gearing, so it's not a required thing to do extra damage.

You can absolutely complete 15s while standing around in between healing needs.

Also saying "RWF players aren't good they just have time to dedicate" is specious nonsense. There are plenty of no-life basement dwellers who play for 60 hours a week that will never be good enough for RWF. Imagine saying, "I'm better at basketball than Michael Jordan, but I just don't have the time to dedicate to practicing lay-ups." Max and Scripe and Sco have literally the pick of the world when setting up their raid teams, so why would they settle for garbage players who happen to have lots of time on their hands?

[kenn9530]

We discussed this. You dont want challange content.

You want challange raid content. There's a big difference on that.

---

What you're talking is not objectile better. You failing to understand that is actually pretty weird.

I want actual content that challenges a healers actual healing ability, that would then make mythic plus possibly more fun also not just raid content so it is you who doesnt understand, as it stands most of the time players do the bare min of mythic plus as required, then there is a very very small number of players that actually push keys or do more keys than they need to because the content just doesnt reward players for doing it.

Thing is, in mythic raiding there already exists challenging content.

We're working on mythic Soulrender currently, have a few 10% wipes, and that is a fight with constant aoe damage and huge raid damage spikes - we need every bit of 5 healers for it, and you better believe we expect as much dps as possible from our healers, while they are also putting out 12-14k hps.

This thread is pretty silly.

If you don't want to dps as a healer, then don't. It's not bad game design, you just won't be pushing 20s any time soon. Oh and BTW, 20s give you nothing over 15s in terms of gearing, so it's not a required thing to do extra damage.

You can absolutely complete 15s while standing around in between healing needs.

Also saying "RWF players aren't good they just have time to dedicate" is specious nonsense. There are plenty of no-life basement dwellers who play for 60 hours a week that will never be good enough for RWF. Imagine saying, "I'm better at basketball than Michael Jordan, but I just don't have the time to dedicate to practicing lay-ups." Max and Scripe and Sco have literally the pick of the world when setting up their raid teams, so why would they settle for garbage players who happen to have lots of time on their hands?

If you actually read what i said, a WF raider is not better than any other mythic raider that is capable of clearing CE content, i didnt just say any player with too much time on thier hands, they have to have a baseline of ability to clear all the content. WF raiders make just as many mistakes as everyone else.

Also the fights only use about half of a healers actual full potential, the fights are just not designed about actually test a healers healing skill at all. Healers are already overhealing 50-60% on average and dont even have full 252 gear.

[Dropakeg]

If you actually read what i said, a WF raider is not better than any other mythic raider that is capable of clearing CE content, i didnt just say any player with too much time on thier hands, they have to have a baseline of ability to clear all the content. WF raiders make just as many mistakes as everyone else.

Also the fights only use about half of a healers actual full potential, the fights are just not designed about actually test a healers healing skill at all. Healers are already overhealing 50-60% on average and dont even have full 252 gear.

I read what you said, I just disagree. They may not be more capable, but they are, by nearly every metric, better, even if only because they have more familiarity with their classes.

If you're asserting that you're in the same league, prove me wrong by joining Limit, or at least show us your logs.

[kenn9530]

I read what you said, I just disagree. They may not be more capable, but they are, by nearly every metric, better, even if only because they have more familiarity with their classes.

If you're asserting that you're in the same league, prove me wrong by joining Limit, or at least show us your logs.

They are not any more skilled than any other mythic raider capable of clearing CE, they just have more time and motivation to do tedious things like having several chars available for mythic raiding, playing a class to a suitable level is easy, the hardest part in WoW is how long will it take someone to learn what they need to do in a boss fight and can pay attention long enough for it to die.