Fate of Afghanistan, Taliban resurgence

[Orange Joe]

Child rapists.

I mean I was pretty sure you aren't for death for homosexuals but you did read what you replied to right?

[Shadowferal]

I mean I was pretty sure you aren't for death for homosexuals but you did read what you replied to right?

*blinks*
Ouch...yea...that doesn't connect well...a little late but fixing...

[draynay]

This is extremely damning to the entire stated purpose of the war in the first place. There was never any nation-building going on. It was colonialism from the start.

No way, I refuse to believe the Bush administration would mislead us.

[omeomorfismo]

I always wondered since we were so afraid of the Soviets why we didn't bomb them and invade, after the war it was the most opportune time and we could have made enough cover stories given they were allied with Germany. It's an interesting what ifs since we were the only ones with nukes at the time.

you really think that invading the urss after yalta could somehow not making the USA the nastiest state for diplomacy relations? i mean, USA is pretty famous to have a very bad diplomacy, but come on, that would be too stupid...

[Gaidax]

I always wondered since we were so afraid of the Soviets why we didn't bomb them and invade, after the war it was the most opportune time and we could have made enough cover stories given they were allied with Germany. It's an interesting what ifs since we were the only ones with nukes at the time.

You and what army? Banged up and exhausted Europe? Couple hundred thousands of Yankees you'd send over the pond? That against massive Soviet war machine by 1945?

I'm almost amused you don't ask the reverse question - why USSR didn't just say "why have half of Europe when we can have all of it". Or what you think you'd drop some few more bombs and send Rambo to kill Stalin and it would be done?

After half a decade of bloodiest war Earth ever seen, everyone, even Soviets just wanted some peace.

[zealo]

you really think that invading the urss after yalta could somehow not making the USA the nastiest state for diplomacy relations? i mean, USA is pretty famous to have a very bad diplomacy, but come on, that would be too stupid...

It wouldn't just be incredibly dumb diplomatically, but also strategically in a more military sense.

The red army of 1945 wouldn't have taken that just sitting down, and it's an enormous underestimation of just how competent of a fighting force they had become by then.

[bowchikabow]

Ok, so from what I gathered from this (and other sources) is that the regime military what fully dependant on the US military infrastructure for day-to-day operations of their defenses.

Here's the thing: that means the regime itself was fully dependent on the US, rather than the US helping build an independent armed forces. This is extremely damning to the entire stated purpose of the war in the first place. There was never any nation-building going on. It was colonialism from the start.

More like: We taught their military how to conduct operations, but we taught them to do it our way.. With our resources. Then we took the resources away without them having the independent training to conduct such things on their own.

Another way to look at it would be a race driver learning to drive daytona in a Toyota, practiced every lap and ran every race in that Toyota.. Then, when the big race came.. BAM now he is in a Chevy, with a Chevy crew.. and no practice time.

[JohnBrown1917]

I’m talking about the holocaust vs Stalin’s death count.

And im talking about Hitlers death count in general.

[Gaaz]

I’m talking about the holocaust vs Stalin’s death count.

A bit of a side step on my part.
I find Stalin's death count to be extremely exaggerated. Every time someone talks about it, they either can not state where they got that info from, or (very rarely) site a source from Khrushchev time period and post that, by people who actually benefited, financially or otherwise, from such myths. Case in point Solzhenitsyn memoirs that got published during late 1960s. He was writing them under the protection of Khrushchev, a person so closely resembling Boris Johnson in appearance as well as spirit, that I honestly would find it hard to distinguish between them if a blond wig would have been thrown into the equation. Both, Solzhenitsyn and Khrushchev, were extremely biased in their views towards Stalin. One for being sent to prison for 8 years for criticizing government and superior officers in writing (I should mention that at the time it was seen completely normal to jail even a civilian for being of a wrong national descent, let alone open criticism that could be interpreted as hostile propaganda. Japanese-Americans can confirm), during war time, while being in active military service. The other because he basically fought for power in the USSR after Stalin's death, had to destroy any opposition and rise above the rest of Stalin's subordinates (who he very much was, being a member of NKVD troikas, taking a very active role in purges in Ukraine during late 1930s as a head of Ukraine SSR. Basically, you can find his foot prints near every questionable position that was available at the time).
Works by Glantz and House paint a rather different picture compared to what is considered mainstream. And these two had direct access to Russian military archives and spent many years shuffling tons of paper there. IIRC it is these two managed to list every general in USSR Army, Navy and Airforce that were in service during 1930s and into WW2, to find that these famous military purges that allegedly decapitated USSR armed forces, ended in execution of 20 generals... out of 1200. And by the time the war started in 1941, around 90% of those convicted were reinstated in military forces. Total number of all military officers (Junior Lieutenant and up) that were removed from their posts ranged from 24000 to 28000, depending on a source. Out of about 240000 (having one officer for 6 non officer positions was bloated beyond all reason and many were demoted). Most arrests were for crimes not related to politics.
Long story short, Stalin's reputation, or I should probably say presentation, seems eerily similar in terms of general vibes that I got from Taliban, whenever their military capabilities were mentioned by Bush, Obama, Trump or Biden. It was all "totally defeated", "not a threat", "free country", "we are prepared" and so on. At some point I found myself doubting if I am simply clueless, Uncle Sam has a plan and Taliban is not totally destroyed only because those kind souls in the Pentagon and Military Industrial Complex are such humanitarians. But reality hit like a freight train and everything returned to its usual self, namely war profiteering, lies and incompetence. The usual.

[kamuimac]

You and what army? Banged up and exhausted Europe? Couple hundred thousands of Yankees you'd send over the pond? That against massive Soviet war machine by 1945?

I'm almost amused you don't ask the reverse question - why USSR didn't just say "why have half of Europe when we can have all of it". Or what you think you'd drop some few more bombs and send Rambo to kill Stalin and it would be done?

After half a decade of bloodiest war Earth ever seen, everyone, even Soviets just wanted some peace.

ye espceially the nations that got sold in Jałta and "enjoyed" 40 years of soviet occupation

those wanted some peace too

it was no different that was happened in Afganistan now or in Ukraine couple of years ago with Crimea which is now under Russian occupation

western world sold their supposed allies for oportynity to enjoy peacefull money manking. both 80 years ago and now.

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More like: We taught their military how to conduct operations, but we taught them to do it our way.. With our resources. Then we took the resources away without them having the independent training to conduct such things on their own.

Another way to look at it would be a race driver learning to drive daytona in a Toyota, practiced every lap and ran every race in that Toyota.. Then, when the big race came.. BAM now he is in a Chevy, with a Chevy crew.. and no practice time.

you did .... or you pretended to do so - in order to laundry bilions of $$$$

[gondrin]

Here is a good take of all the mess that is going over on in Afghanistan. This show does its homework regardless of who is the one talking.

[Gaidax]

ye espceially the nations that got sold in Jałta and "enjoyed" 40 years of soviet occupation

those wanted some peace too

it was no different that was happened in Afganistan now or in Ukraine couple of years ago with Crimea which is now under Russian occupation

western world sold their supposed allies for oportynity to enjoy peacefull money manking. both 80 years ago and now.

And who really cares?

Or what you think because some people pretend to be more woke than they really are, things will ever be different?

Like look at US, everyone and their mothers approve bailing. Something akin to 3/4 of the populace. And that's right, because after all you "put your own oxygen mask fist". That's how it always is and will be. Even some of the "wokier" people here are only too happy to repeat Biden's "it's the brown people's fault" when it suits them.

Weak will suffer and strong will flaunt their "might is right" and some pretty fresh clothes on top of the same old body.

[Gaidax]

The population supports leaving AFG. They don’t approve of the way it happened. It’s weird you think being “woke” requires supporting the endless occupation of a foreign nation.

You made me chuckle. Some nice copium there.

Reality is you and plenty other bleeding hearts know full well what will happen next day to the populace there, but hey lets put the concerned "occupying foreign nation" face to try and salvage whatever is left of our fake pretenses about human rights and what not.

Morals and ideals only seem to be in effect when it suits, as I said. Population supports it not out of concern for the "occupied" nation, but because they foot the bill and bury their dead soldiers who died for hell knows what thousands miles away for 2 decades now.

[JohnBrown1917]

ye espceially the nations that got sold in Jałta and "enjoyed" 40 years of soviet occupation

those wanted some peace too

it was no different that was happened in Afganistan now or in Ukraine couple of years ago with Crimea which is now under Russian occupation

western world sold their supposed allies for oportynity to enjoy peacefull money manking. both 80 years ago and now.

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$

Yeah, its only bad when the USSR occupiers countries, unlike our grand and masterful US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio was also totally fine

[Breccia]

Biden's CIA chief apparently met with the Taliban, most likely to discuss fleeing/surrender terms.

Probably a necessity of the devolving situation, but, can't say I'm a fan. They're terrorists.

[KrayZ33]

Biden's CIA chief apparently met with the Taliban, most likely to discuss fleeing/surrender terms.

Probably a necessity of the devolving situation, but, can't say I'm a fan. They're terrorists.

Are they terrorist if they are in power?
At some point in time, everyone will accept them as the new regime, and then they are no longer terrorists.
Give it 3 more months.

[Gaidax]

Biden's CIA chief apparently met with the Taliban, most likely to discuss fleeing/surrender terms.

Probably a necessity of the devolving situation, but, can't say I'm a fan. They're terrorists.

Sometimes reality check is good. Sure they are terrorists, but they have all the cards now and you don't want some disaster like plane with 700 people being shot down on take off or all the scores of foreigners still around being taken hostage.

[Biglog]

Biden's CIA chief apparently met with the Taliban, most likely to discuss fleeing/surrender terms.

Probably a necessity of the devolving situation, but, can't say I'm a fan. They're terrorists.

Media outlets on the right have conveniently not given it much coverage, but the "fleeing/surrender" (lol) terms were set long ago by Trump as part of the Doha Peace Agreement during his 1-term. The deadline date per that agreement that Trump and Pompeo made with the Taliban is August 31, 2021. That is why we are in this situation currently. So a departure that was planned over a year in advance as part of a peace agreement is hardly fleeing or surrendering, a poor choice of terms.

China has already said that they will recognize the Taliban government (they announced this weeks ago) because they are very interested in exploiting Afghanistan's mineral resources and have mining deals already in-place. Probably surprising to those that like to bash the West for such activity. It's not oil that Afghanistan has, but it has rare earth minerals, copper, etc. which are becoming just as important especially as the world transitions to battery-powered vehicles. China knows this and is more than happy to recognize the Taliban in order to gain mining access to it's resources.

And the Taliban are more than happy to accept that deal with China, which will give them a much-needed cash infusion as well as what they really need which is recognition by a major power. Once China recognizes the Taliban as the government in power in Afghanistan, the debate is over. Much of the world will follow-suit after China does even if parts of the West do not.

[Corvus]

Biden's CIA chief apparently met with the Taliban, most likely to discuss fleeing/surrender terms.

Probably a necessity of the devolving situation, but, can't say I'm a fan. They're terrorists.

I think it is likely an attempt to extend the evacuation timeline. The Taliban have said the end of the month is it but that won't be long enough.

The CIA are seemingly up to other stuff as well. On the flight tracker a few days back, a CIA plane was spotted circling for a few hours some distance north of Kabul, up near the Panjshir valley. Conjecture is they were communicating with some one on the ground up there, like an asset still there, or the Northern Alliance.

[BronzeCondor]

Just saw that Congress wasn't notified about the CIA meeting until after it happened, oof.

I think it'd be wise at this point to treat the Taliban as an extension off Chinese Foreign Policy, rather than an entity acting strictly in its own self interest. When we were providing overwatch for the egress out of Iraq at the end of 2011, the clerics/militias mostly left the US alone so that we'd finally leave the country. The way things are developing in Afghanistan should have been similar, but this is just ridiculous. And it's getting out of control.

Whoever is directing policy for the Biden Administration is doing a horrible job right now. And China wants to make sure we have a black eye, which is why they are capitalizing on this moment with propaganda targeted at Taiwan, prompting a recent visit from Kamala to re-assure US allies in the region.