1. #5701
    Quote Originally Posted by Polybius View Post
    If investors haven’t cared now they should. Specifically, MAUs that are active and not merely subbed. It’s easy to let a sub run, streaming services prey on this. But customers eventually cancel their service. Inactivity is a good measurement to predict how many players they keep, and how to proceed in keeping them active for the next quarter.

    Right now they’re in a bit of a pickle. Stars are aligned against their favor.
    Consistent subs is what you would be looking for. In cases where the game does not automatically renew, which I believe is true for WoW, what players actually do with the time is irrelevant, what matters is whether they buy consistent subscriptions, and going by the many 6-month sub promotions I doubt Blizzard is likely to get many people that stop playing. Afterall, you get a 6-month sub, you play maybe a month or two, then you play something else, then finally you return when a new patch rolls around, and coincidentally right around that time you get another 6-month sub promotion.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  2. #5702
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiradon View Post
    I honestly think the big problem of Shadowlands in 9.0 was going for the raid/m+ log kind of scenario or say "seasonal log in" things like Timeless isle are very important to keep players engaged for at least 2-3 months say the least.

    Like Korthia is a big step in the right direction but I hope next patch we get something along the lines of Timeless Isle.

    I mean I do love Korthia and logging in every day to kill some rares in an open world alongside farming some rep + archivist codex.
    People are sick of daily chores and systems, and you think putting more chores is going to help?

    The reason way Timeless Isle was so popular was because was filled with events and rewards that were all either cosmetic or catch-up gear, the only mandatory activity in Timeless Isle was the World Boss Ordos, no crap reputations behind player power, no sockets, no arbitrary currencies. We literally finished our lego cloak questline the moment we get there. Everything else available there was just for fun.

    Korthia and the Maw is a big step in the WRONG direction.

    For some weird reason, Blizzard also decided a couple of expansions ago that getting BiS gear is bad and so they decided to create Warforged/Thunderforged and in Legion decided to double down on it creating Titanforged, but now that Warforged was removed in Shadowlands instead of going back to how loot worked back in Wrath of Lich King, they decided that getting BiS gear is still bad so they removed/reduced loot drops from many sources... and guess what? People hated it! What a surprise!
    Last edited by Luck4; 2021-08-22 at 09:35 PM.

  3. #5703
    I feel like a big part, if not all, gear-related issues that we have right now come from Mythic+. The game having two endgame gearing paths through PvP and Raiding was fine, but M+ being pushed into the mix just made it really really messy. It wasn't quite as bad with Titanforging, but with it being gone, it really rears its ugly head.

  4. #5704
    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    People are sick of daily chores and systems, and you think putting more chores is going to help?

    The reason way Timeless Isle was so popular was because was filled with events and rewards that were all either cosmetic or catch-up gear, the only mandatory activity in Timeless Isle was the World Boss Ordos, no crap reputations behind player power, no sockets, no arbitrary currencies. We literally finished our lego cloak questline the moment we get there. Everything else available there was just for fun.

    Korthia and the Maw is a big step in the WRONG direction.

    For some weird reason, Blizzard also decided a couple of expansions ago that getting BiS gear is bad and so they decided to create Warforged/Thunderforged and in Legion decided to double down on it creating Titanforged, but now that Warforged was removed in Shadowlands instead of going back to how loot worked back in Wrath of Lich King, they decided that getting BiS gear is still bad so they removed/reduced loot drops from many sources... and guess what? People hated it! What a surprise!
    No, the reason why Timeless Isle was popular is that it came at the end of easily one of the worst patches in the game's history, Escalation, and was not-dailies at the end of an expansion of endless dailies. It was also the first iteration of "effortlessly gear your alts via endlessly dropping tokens" which made its otherwise redundant and boring content extremely rewarding to the majority of the playerbase. Realistically it WAS mandatory for most players because most players had an alt or six for whom the gear was an upgrade and by far the easiest method of getting better gear.

    Warforging was born out of iterative development on secondary gear systems. I'm not sure why you think Blizzard decided on it "a couple expansions ago" when it is literally a system from mid-MoP, but also it was not implemented to void BiS, but rather so that people in BiS for a raid wouldn't feel like running a raid was completely worthless to them because there was nothing of value able to drop, since instead they'd have a small chance at getting and even better version of their equipped BiS item.

  5. #5705
    Epic! Pheraz's Avatar
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    On my 40th LFR sod run I just that about that first ones object talking about the sepulcher.
    Maybe the first ones just died or transfered their souls info artificial robots but left their powers in their sepulcher?
    Zorn | Vynd | Pheraz | Sylwina | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - Plus 20 more...

  6. #5706
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    I feel like a big part, if not all, gear-related issues that we have right now come from Mythic+. The game having two endgame gearing paths through PvP and Raiding was fine, but M+ being pushed into the mix just made it really really messy. It wasn't quite as bad with Titanforging, but with it being gone, it really rears its ugly head.
    The problem mostly stemms from the archaic system of raiding though. As you could see, gearing in 9.0 was many times easier via PvP, which also uses a different approach to Raids with their weekly lockout and rigit (large) group requirements. If m+ wouldn't exist the alternative to that would just be shitty PvP grinding. The problem is simply that all these gearing systems are fundamentally different and having them in the same design space results in conflicts.
    Last edited by Cosmic Janitor; 2021-08-22 at 10:32 PM.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  7. #5707
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    No, the reason why Timeless Isle was popular is that it came at the end of easily one of the worst patches in the game's history, Escalation, and was not-dailies at the end of an expansion of endless dailies. It was also the first iteration of "effortlessly gear your alts via endlessly dropping tokens" which made its otherwise redundant and boring content extremely rewarding to the majority of the playerbase. Realistically it WAS mandatory for most players because most players had an alt or six for whom the gear was an upgrade and by far the easiest method of getting better gear.
    I played MOP from end to start, and dailies were only mandatory until you reached exalted. Valor could be earned through many means, raids included. Isle of Thunder, Escalation Barrens, and Timeless Isle were all mostly optional content with cosmetic stuff on them, these zones were meant to tell the story behind the upcoming raid, not keep the players like hamsters running inside the wheel endlessly. But changing topics to the catch-up mechanic, back then we had the nerf on old raids and I remember doing Mogushan, Heart of Fear, and Throne of Thunder to gear alts, sure Timeless Isle was a more efficient way to gear alts but wasn't the only way, but back to main I couldn't care less about Timeless Isle.

    Now tell me, can I get Valor from raids in Shadowlands? There's any nerf mechanic to encourage people to run old raids for gear? Can I get done with dailies in a month or two like in Mists of Pandaria?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Warforging was born out of iterative development on secondary gear systems. I'm not sure why you think Blizzard decided on it "a couple expansions ago" when it is literally a system from mid-MoP
    Yeah, it was from Mists of Pandaria.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    it was not implemented to void BiS, but rather so that people in BiS for a raid wouldn't feel like running a raid was completely worthless to them because there was nothing of value able to drop, since instead they'd have a small chance at getting and even better version of their equipped BiS item.
    If there's a better version of the item you're using available then what you're using isn't the BiS. Warforged-Titanforged versions were the BiS gear, and Blizzard made it because they hated the fact that many people only did raids until their teams were full BiS, which happened most of the time before the next patch was released making sub dropping. So, to avoid this in Shadowlands, now that Warforged is gone, they removed/reduced many loot drop sources to make sure people will take longer to get the BiS gear anyway.

  8. #5708
    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    I would absolutely rethink this decision if so. While I understand not wanting to have another mouth to feed & that a new class means permanent extra work to figure out abilities/balance, I feel that without a new class the game somewhat tends to stagnate. A new class brings in new playstyles, new options for how to run content, new strengths/weaknesses to look at in PvP & PvE, as well as a lot of player excitement. Imagine a pet-based healing class or something along the playstyle lines of Spellblade Aluriel which has both melee & ranged parts to the spec. There is a reason IMO that the expansions most fondly remembered (BC, WotLK, Mists, Legion) all featured a new class for each faction to play with.
    I can understand that Blizzard might not want to add a new class in times like these, but at the same time new gameplay is also great. I think it might be good to focus the resources that would go towards a new class towards balancing/reworking some of the underperforming classes in the game, seeing that class balance issues are a big deal right now (though this isn't unique to SL). A reworked class can be as good as a new class, especially to the people who have had to main a broken class for an expansion or more.

  9. #5709
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Yes, they do.
    Everyday when you go and return from work.
    Ok
    That’s on me
    I should have seen that coming

    - - - Updated - - -

    Reprinting some books
    Including those with dragon lore

    Tinfoil hat
    10.0 dragon isles

  10. #5710
    Thank you. I haven't sat in on any pitch meetings myself, but from what I hear it is impossible to sell an idea without being able to tie them to metrics / KPIs. Player engagement matters because engagement can be measured and really for no other reason. Unfortunately, "fun" cannot be quantified.

  11. #5711
    Epic! Pheraz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    Ok
    That’s on me
    I should have seen that coming

    - - - Updated - - -

    Reprinting some books
    Including those with dragon lore

    Tinfoil hat
    10.0 dragon isles
    My problem is why should we need the help of the dragons? Now after we dealt with Freezer of the Afterlife on Titan level? They totally messed up the power scaling with shadowlands. We killed a titan-level eternal one in castle nathria. And the jailor will prbly be killed in the last pacth who is also an eternal one, prbly also with a huuuge power boost now that he has the orb.
    Dragon isles only if they do some sort of planet reshaping/world revamp.
    Zorn | Vynd | Pheraz | Sylwina | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - Plus 20 more...

  12. #5712
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    My problem is why should we need the help of the dragons? Now after we dealt with Freezer of the Afterlife on Titan level? They totally messed up the power scaling with shadowlands. We killed a titan-level eternal one in castle nathria. And the jailor will prbly be killed in the last pacth who is also an eternal one, prbly also with a huuuge power boost now that he has the orb.
    Dragon isles only if they do some sort of planet reshaping/world revamp.
    Yeah, Legion and BfA made sense killing these Old Gods and Titans because we were empowered by an external source, essentially.

  13. #5713
    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    Yeah, Legion and BfA made sense killing these Old Gods and Titans because we were empowered by an external source, essentially.
    to be fair, that still applies to SL as well, even though it's a tiny bit more subtle now. Soulbinds and anima are essentially a super power that strengthens our souls beyond what mortals should have and the same is true for legedary powers, which is practically the remanants of souls forged into armor that buffs us. Edit: Not to mention domintion shards or even just the gear of shadowlands, which would in theory be beyond mortal means as well (even though I doubt Blizzard thought that far...)
    Last edited by Cosmic Janitor; 2021-08-23 at 01:39 PM.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  14. #5714
    Cue fake expansion logo time!



    (From here)

    In my spare time I may put together something like what ercarp did that I linked before. No promises, though.

    Anyway yeah this is fake of course, if nothing else the B being obscured like it is is pretty bad. But still, fun.

  15. #5715
    So they confirmed another 9.1.5 feature on the forums today (soloable Island Expeditions in BFA). I am guessing they're doing this to show they are in fact reading the forums.

  16. #5716
    Certainly getting the feeling 9.1.5 is a "break the glass" sort of thing.

    Let's see if we get a mage tower thing in it. That'd be a sure sign.

  17. #5717
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    So they confirmed another 9.1.5 feature on the forums today (soloable Island Expeditions in BFA). I am guessing they're doing this to show they are in fact reading the forums.
    This is a correct assumption

  18. #5718
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Lol at the obscured B.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  19. #5719
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Lol at the obscured B.
    It's a reference to the Balliance, the new name for the Horde in 10.0.

  20. #5720
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    So they confirmed another 9.1.5 feature on the forums today (soloable Island Expeditions in BFA). I am guessing they're doing this to show they are in fact reading the forums.
    These features drop every 3 days it's starting to annoy the hell out of me honestly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Firedemon View Post
    No. On these forums any updates mean an expansion hint.
    Wrathin comes back? Dragon expansion clearly!
    LK part of a quest? Wotlk 2 clearly!
    Sylvanas working with a death master? Shadowlands clearly!

    At the point we're headed for Wrath of the Shdowlands Dragon Isles Lich and tinkers.

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