[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[StrawberryZebra]

How are they getting your info? Is there something in game I need to be aware of to disable?

In the case of Discord, it's been people that I've been on the same server with for one reason or another. They've got your Discord username by default and they're able to link you to the character you're playing with minimal effort. I use a public server when I pug M+ sometimes and they decided to follow me in and message the people in the channel about what I "shitlord" I was. One of those happened to be my Sister - She thought it was funny, go figure.

Reddit is the same story, they already know your username and you're just a DM away if people want to contact you.

I've got no idea how they got hold of the email, but it's the one I use almost exclusively for FF14, so it was in the inbox for 12 months before I even noticed it. My account has TFA enabled, so I'm not overly concerned about it's security for the moment, but it's still a loose end I've not tied up.

The zero tolerance policy is helping to take the abusing messaging out of the game, but it's pushing it into another channel instead. One where Squenix have little to no control. I'm not saying that's a bad thing - It's almost certainly doing more good than it is harm. But a situation like this in any other game would be one where player A calls player B a "Shitlord", player B tells them to "Fuck off!" and they both ignore each other and go about their business.

"Aggressively Righteous" or something to that effect. Like a very vocal part of the community wants to put forth this image of being so good and pure and kind...and they'll beat you over the head with it if you step out of line at all.

I think some of this is FF14 being positioned as the rival to WoW - Every other game that's been in that position has always tried to push that their community was so much better than WoW's. If the players think the main draw is that they're, in some vauge and undefined way, better than WoW's player base then they hold that as a twisted badge of honour. WAR did it, Rift did it, even Wildstar tried it.

Anyone who gives off the impression of being less than a fantastic and wonderful human being is told to "go back to WoW!" and brow beaten for it.

It's a strange concept to try put into words for certain.

It's a situation I've seen go both ways though. I've seen so many eager and enthusiastic people wanting to help newcomers in almost every setting. I've seen players in the FGC have fights over who gets to teach the new player, 6 guys crowding around a power rack trying to show the new guy how to squat in the gym and people crowding around kids with instruments all wanting to teach them how to play.

I think that can be just as off putting as complete indifference.

Based on the way you speak, and your own self admittance, I can almost guarantee that the reason you're having so many issues is because of your word choice when discussing these things.

I try to keep things matter of fact. I won't wrap players in cotton wool or dress things up in RP, I'll just tell it as it is. You run in for the purple eyes, run away for the blue eyes. It may not always come across that way in text form and I appreciate that people reading it are going to put their own spin on it.

It's an issue I'm aware of, but I need to communicate quickly and clearly to people for work and it's a hard habit to break.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I don't see this as a particular problem of the game honestly. When I'm playing the game I'm absolutely overjoyed that chat isn't overflowing with negativity, politics, arguing and other stuff like WoW chat is. That kind of thing completely detracts from my enjoyment of my play session. I'm playing the game to get away from that shit. The fact that game chat is almost entirely about the game and chat is typically filled with innocuous , fun, silly, or helpful stuff is a GOOD thing IMO.

A point well made, though I rarely see any in game chat at all in either game so I can't really comment as much as I'd like to. The last time I saw a conversation in public chat in WoW it was about Die Hard 4.0. All I tend to see in FF14 are FC adverts, peppered with the occasional direct whisper and unsolicited invite.

I very rarely go to a city in FF14 though so I probably miss most of the chit chat.

I agree that having to tiptoe around performance issues that hinder a group is REALLY frustrating, but the number of times that I encounter situations that are SO bad that I feel the desire to speak up about it are very few and far between. It puts the focus entirely on the gameplay, which I like.

I accept that sometimes mistakes happen and those cause wipes. When someone is constantly making the same mistake which is leading to a wipes at the same point of the encounter, thats when I jump in with a quick once over of what needs to change.

I don't tiptoe around issue and thats what lands me in trouble. I am who I am though, faults and all.

I agree here. But, I don't think this is a GAME problem, though. I would agree that the zero tolerance policy supports it, to a degree, but this mentality/ issue isn't something FFXIV created.

It comes back to the point I made earlier about risk. The person who's offering up feedback is potentially risking a ban for giving another player some help. That creates such a one sided power dynamic that it's often safer to keep quiet than make yourself a target.

The fact that you can't send people a private message in a dungeon is a huge barrier here too. Any discussion has to be done in public, where everyone can see and that's not always the best place to give feedback. Even if the person you're trying to address is receptive to the feedback others may not see it that way.

As for it not being game specific, I 100% agree on that point. People seem to have forgotten that constructive criticism is a thing that can exist. It means people want things to be better, and that's always from a place of personal investment rather than negativity.

[Frostfred]

It comes back to the point I made earlier about risk. The person who's offering up feedback is potentially risking a ban for giving another player some help. That creates such a one sided power dynamic that it's often safer to keep quiet than make yourself a target.

The fact that you can't send people a private message in a dungeon is a huge barrier here too. Any discussion has to be done in public, where everyone can see and that's not always the best place to give feedback. Even if the person you're trying to address is receptive to the feedback others may not see it that way.

As for it not being game specific, I 100% agree on that point. People seem to have forgotten that constructive criticism is a thing that can exist. It means people want things to be better, and that's always from a place of personal investment rather than negativity.

Have there really been cases like this? It seems to me more like an "urban legend" or "you want it to be true, but it isn't", like that "the community now is much more toxic with all the WoW influx players". I can't imagine a case where just explaining some mechanic leads to a ban. I've explained some / reminded thanks about enmity stance etc some times now when I was in the leveling roulette, and not once was the reaction to it negative.

Of course, the choice of words may impact this. If people go (just to show an extreme possible case): "Ey, noob, haven't you seen a guide? How can you fail like this, you idiot? Just don't stand in that corner when the boss does this, and stop waisting my time!" - I can see how people would react negatively to this type of "feedback". Does it warrant a ban? Imo not, but I could understand people arguing that it does.

[e] Just a small clarification: I agree that in some cases people can be too defensive or take even simple suggestions and constructive criticism personally. However, there's a major difference between inadvertently offending someone and a ban from the game.

[Lane]

Reddit is the same story, they already know your username and you're just a DM away if people want to contact you.

I use Reddit on mobile through a browser, I just don't feel the need to have the app, and I've no idea how to send or receive DMs. I could have a dozen DMs and wouldn't know it, probably for the best. :P

I never got into Discord, but I'm usually purposefully vague with anything I do online. I was 'scared straight' as a teenager when someone online tracked me down to my house, scared my mother and I, and the police had to get involved. It's a little trickier in FFXIV with DCs, but I don't think I've ever said what server(s) I play on and I never tell anyone my character names. Though the latter is more because I used to heavily PvP and got into a few unpleasant conflicts with people on the forums.

Anyway, thanks for letting me know what else I need to be mindful of when interacting with people.

[Katchii]

I try to keep things matter of fact. I won't wrap players in cotton wool or dress things up in RP, I'll just tell it as it is. You run in for the purple eyes, run away for the blue eyes. It may not always come across that way in text form and I appreciate that people reading it are going to put their own spin on it.

It's an issue I'm aware of, but I need to communicate quickly and clearly to people for work and it's a hard habit to break.

You don't have to wrap it up in cotton candy and ooze insincere pleasantness, you just have to not come across as an asshole. Adding a few more words to soften the directness goes a LONG way.

I work in a similar environment, you need to be succinct. But succinct doesn't mean you have to be blunt or so direct as to be abrasive or offensive.

A point well made, though I rarely see any in game chat at all in either game so I can't really comment as much as I'd like to. The last time I saw a conversation in public chat in WoW it was about Die Hard 4.0. All I tend to see in FF14 are FC adverts, peppered with the occasional direct whisper and unsolicited invite.

I very rarely go to a city in FF14 though so I probably miss most of the chit chat.

Same experience with FFXIV, but my experience with WoW is VERY different. I'm in cities a lot, and therefore see Trade and General chat, and every time I've played it's filled with some stupid political chat and people being general trolls and asshats for no other reason than to stir the pot and cause drama. I read chat consistently to see if there's something I'm interested in doing, buying, or a question I can answer or am also interested in knowing. Because of this I see all that garbage and it significantly impacts my enjoyment of the game.

I accept that sometimes mistakes happen and those cause wipes. When someone is constantly making the same mistake which is leading to a wipes at the same point of the encounter, thats when I jump in with a quick once over of what needs to change.

I don't tiptoe around issue and thats what lands me in trouble. I am who I am though, faults and all.

While I can understand and empathize with people just being themselves, this kind of "it's just who I am, deal with it" mentality really rubs me the wrong way, because it's not a valid excuse, long term. People aren't immutable, and shouldn't be. If you're told, several times, that the way you speak and the way you act is offensive, abrasive, blunt, etc... it's a personal choice to stay that way and make no effort to change.

It comes back to the point I made earlier about risk. The person who's offering up feedback is potentially risking a ban for giving another player some help. That creates such a one sided power dynamic that it's often safer to keep quiet than make yourself a target.

I don't agree with the risk part, not for offering feedback. It's HOW you offer feedback that causes the risk. Don't be an abrasive asshole or act like their boss about it and you should be fine. In my time playing FFXIV, which has been since the Beta for 2.0, the ONLY times I've ever seen issues with giving players feedback is when that feedback is "aggressively" delivered as some kind of "hey you're doing this wrong, you need to be doing X instead." That's not going to be taken as helpful feedback, that's someone telling you you're doing something wrong and then giving you directions, like they're your boss.

This isn't a job, it's not a competition, or some life changing thing...it's a game. Any kind of "helpful" feedback needs to take that into consideration. High level duties are another story, as the expectations are different.

The fact that you can't send people a private message in a dungeon is a huge barrier here too. Any discussion has to be done in public, where everyone can see and that's not always the best place to give feedback. Even if the person you're trying to address is receptive to the feedback others may not see it that way.

Again, it's almost entirely based on how you frame it. I've given, received, and seen feedback given thousands of times and only a few handfuls of them were ever problematic all because of word choice. You will of course come across the dipshit "you don't pay my sub!" clowns, but they're not the norm.

That said, unless the person is significantly impacting your groups ability to complete the content, I just don't see the point in commenting. Because, I will agree, that it's just not worth the effort otherwise.
.

As for it not being game specific, I 100% agree on that point. People seem to have forgotten that constructive criticism is a thing that can exist. It means people want things to be better, and that's always from a place of personal investment rather than negativity.

The desire to help may not come from a negative place, but I've seen plenty of "feedback" given in a very negative manner. Barking orders like a drill sergeant doesn't help, and neither do acting like someone's boss or otherwise giving directions or orders. It needs to come across as guidance, suggestions, help or support. As I said before, this is not a job, a performance evaluation, a competition or anything super serious...it's a game. Even as someone who's open to criticism and willing to accept help whenever it's given, if someone were to come at me like changing my playstyle were some sort of requirement for continued employment in the party (for non high end content) when the party is moving along just fine, I'd get pretty pissed.

[StrawberryZebra]

Have there really been cases like this? It seems to me more like an "urban legend" or "you want it to be true, but it isn't", like that "the community now is much more toxic with all the WoW influx players". I can't imagine a case where just explaining some mechanic leads to a ban. I've explained some / reminded thanks about enmity stance etc some times now when I was in the leveling roulette, and not once was the reaction to it negative.

I don't know if anyone has been outright banned for it, but I know that I've been pulled out of a dungeon into GM Jail on more than one occasion after offering up some suggestions for other players that were taken the wrong way. That's never resulted in anything more serious for me than 15 minutes in the cell and a chat with the GM, but that doesn't mean it's always going to be that way.

As you say, it was inadvertently offending another player so wasn't something the GM's felt was worth more than a short time out. I'd imagine that being difficult with the GM would probably have them being less lenient. It's a situation where you're on thin ice, a bad reaction from the player could end up with much worse than a short break in play.

The times its happened are when all of the other 3 members of a 4 man group reported me for it (always premades, in case you were wondering), I can't say if it's applied for less, but it does seem to have quite a high bar.

I've also had a short stay in GM Jail for responding to people whispering me asking to join their FC with a simple "No." which was taken the wrong way. Again one that the GM didn't seem to think was anything wrong, but it got me over the report threshold. I got my longest stay in there when they added instruments to the Bard and I decided to play Fur Elise in Gridania. Apparently people reported me for playing Copywrited music, but again a bit of GM discression and a quick google search got me off the hook.

@Lane Safety first is always the best policy.

Due to how Discord works, they already knew who I was in game which made it much easier to contact me there. Its the kind of tool which gets used a ton by gaming communities of all kinds, so I don't think too much about joining a server for a pug run. A mistake in hindsight, but hindsight is always 20/20.

[Granyala]

I've always been paranoid on the internet regarding identity and such. I always wonder when I see someone just exposing their "real" social media or contact information in a gaming sphere.

Same here.
Only a handful people have been told my name in private chats.

[Kyriani]

I really appreciate the Trust system, primarily because I can use it for my first time in a dungeon, get the lay of the land, and see the boss mechanics at my own pace. And if I mess up, no one else has to suffer for my mistakes. I also get some RP flavor from the NPC dialogues.

Then when I end up in that dungeon with a real group, I already know what to do and am less likely to miss something and slow everyone down.

[StrawberryZebra]

Same experience with FFXIV, but my experience with WoW is VERY different. I'm in cities a lot, and therefore see Trade and General chat, and every time I've played it's filled with some stupid political chat and people being general trolls and asshats for no other reason than to stir the pot and cause drama.

I'm on a small WoW server and chat is completely dead other than one bot posting boost runs every 5 minutes. Sometimes there aren't even any pots on the AH its that small.

I don't agree with the risk part, not for offering feedback. It's HOW you offer feedback that causes the risk. Don't be an abrasive asshole or act like their boss about it and you should be fine.

I don't ever really say enough to come off as either of these. It always something like "Stack on the bullseye.", or "Take the debuff to A.". There's not enough words in there to be confrontational or offensive. Its certainly direct and to the point, and I acknowledge that.

While I can understand and empathize with people just being themselves, this kind of "it's just who I am, deal with it" mentality really rubs me the wrong way

You misunderstand. I'm not using that as a deflection.

In spoken conversations I normally listen more than I talk. When I do speak its because I have something to say, not just because I want to say something. I keep answers short and exact, and a response will be thought out before I say it outloud. People know that I'm listening and paying attention to them from my body language, and the tone of voice carries the meaning of what I'm saying with little room for misunderstanding.

I still behave like that when I'm typing online. Without the visual and audio parts, the words themselves are open to being interpreted by the reader. It's not a problem for the people who know me IRL, but for a pug group I'm aware how it can come off sometimes.

I habitually start sentences with a capital letter and end with a full stop, and that can make it seem like I'm being blunt or formal. I tend to use precise terms and language, and that may come across as being impersonal. The two can make it seem like I'm being an aloof, passive-aggressive, arsehole at times - Especially when you're trying to offer people advice. It can feel like you're being pulled up for doing something wrong.

I'm not making excuses for how I behave and talk to other people, I'm owning it. I know it's not perfect and I know it needs work and I'm owning that too. I'm never going to be the kind of person who'll say something like "Don't stand there or you get yeeted bro!" with any degree of seriousness. But if my group has an issue with my bros being yeeted, then I'm going to step in and address it. And yes, I own that one as well.

[Katchii]

I'm on a small WoW server and chat is completely dead other than one bot posting boost runs every 5 minutes. Sometimes there aren't even any pots on the AH its that small.

I play on two of the more populace servers (one server for Alliance one for Horde) so my experiences are obviously colored a bit differently.

I don't ever really say enough to come off as either of these. It always something like "Stack on the bullseye.", or "Take the debuff to A.". There's not enough words in there to be confrontational or offensive. Its certainly direct and to the point, and I acknowledge that.

Fair enough. I'm generally the same. I don't use more sentences than I have to, but I will add something like "for this mechanic do X" rather than just the "do X" part. I'll usually also add a "just making sure everyone knows the mechanics..." caveat either before or after to kind of insinuate that I'm not calling anyone out specifically. As you've hinted at before, singling someone out is what tends to cause the drama so making it a point that you're not goes a long way in most situations.

There will always be super sensitive special snowflakes who don't like any form of criticism or advice whatsoever, and in those cases if I know I'm just being cordial and providing guidance on mechanics with no emotional or directed aggression of any kind towards them, I'll vote kick them for harassment because they generally turn out to be super emotional and offensive in their responses to what should otherwise be an innocuous situation.

You misunderstand. I'm not using that as a deflection.

[SNIP]

Thanks for the clarification. I'm also the same way in this regard as well.

Being cordially succinct is a skill I wish more people could cultivate.

[MrPaladinGuy]

Don't do it!

Currently the only FFX character you can do a good job approximating in FFXIV is Jecht (Highlander with Bozja hair) and Yuna (Midlander female with cash shop outfit). For Tidus, none of the ingame male faces look anything like his. Same with Auron, but he wears sunglasses all the time so you can theoretically get away with having a face that looks just good enough (either go with Highlander for broad shoulders, or Elezen for the old man face). However, right now there is nothing in the game that looks like Auron's outfit. The upcoming level 90 Samurai gear in Endwalker somewhat like Auron's getup. Hopefully the lower black skirt is a leg item you can swap out for loose pants, and is not counted as part of the chestpiece. This being a Samurai exclusive glamour, you obviously won't be able to lug a huge Dark Knight sword around.

I've had the same appearance for so long that if I changed it now I'd be confused about who the new guy is in the cutscenes.

Still have the original two Fantasia you get for free.

I think having a physique nearly exactly the same combined with the exact same costume gives more of the same feel than having the same face as the original character. I mean you can literally buy the outfits of a few famous FF characters. Squall's is a veteran reward though.



I've had these same 2 glamours for 4-6 years now, it's time for something else. BLM on the left, WAR on the right.

Anyways, seems I still have my fantasia from when I originally started the game, I don't remember having 2 though. So this basically seals the deal since all I have to do is buy the $12 outfit.

[Wrecktangle]

I still don't understand how this is supposed to work. Letting tanks get to 50% before healing, fine, but I see healers wait until tanks are at 20% and I would be freaking out if I were tanking. I had one conjurer so enthralled with spamming Stone that our tank died - in Sastasha, I didn't even think that was possible.

I've been talking with my SO about pairing as a tank and healer so we know we can communicate and rely on each other, but I wonder if that will lead to us learning the jobs 'wrong'.

PLD main here. Always trust your healer at first. If you're not dead they're doing their job, regardless of whether I'm at 1% HP or 100% HP. I love seeing a healer push the envelope and put out really respectable damage and keep me on the edge. If the healer messes up, as long as they own it and fix it we're all good. More often than not if I do die, it's usually an error they made or the DPS were just downright cabbage (i.e. tank/healer #1 and #2).

I'd rather have a healer who tries and fails then an AFK cure/fairy bot ANY day of the week. Dying in Sastasha is an accomplishment though. You don't actually even need a healer if everyone else is pushing buttons...

[Granyala]

I still don't understand how this is supposed to work. Letting tanks get to 50% before healing, fine, but I see healers wait until tanks are at 20% and I would be freaking out if I were tanking. I had one conjurer so enthralled with spamming Stone that our tank died - in Sastasha, I didn't even think that was possible.

I've been talking with my SO about pairing as a tank and healer so we know we can communicate and rely on each other, but I wonder if that will lead to us learning the jobs 'wrong'.

*chuckles* Yes, tunneling can happen to healers in this game.
It's a lot less of a problem ever since they removed Cleric Stance though.
In general, incoming tank DPS is far more reliable in XIV compared to WoW.
So it's easy for us healers to assess when the tank needs healing and when he does not.

20% is a wee bit close for my taste too but if I have benediction up it can happen.
Usually I prefer to heal before the tank starts to panic and throwing cooldowns left and right though.

[Tenjen]

Rightclick the dummy's health bar. You'll have an option to drop combat (clears DoTs, etc on it).

Ive been playing for so long and now I feel like a fool for not knowing this.

[Pannonian]

Ive been playing for so long and now I feel like a fool for not knowing this.

was only introduced 2 or 3 patches ago.

[Tenjen]

less a fool then

[Pannonian]

*chuckles* Yes, tunneling can happen to healers in this game.
It's a lot less of a problem ever since they removed Cleric Stance though.
In general, incoming tank DPS is far more reliable in XIV compared to WoW.
So it's easy for us healers to assess when the tank needs healing and when he does not.

20% is a wee bit close for my taste too but if I have benediction up it can happen.
Usually I prefer to heal before the tank starts to panic and throwing cooldowns left and right though.

Actually it depends: In leveling dungeons, especially when it's a sprout tank i try not to let them drop below 50% - while not overhealing. I can sympathize with tanks that get a bit nervous when they're at 10% constantly (like i felt when i started as tank) - in raids... that's a different story.


Just to add to the discussion from before. While i know it's anecdotal, and the FF14 comm has its bad apples on its own, the last weeks low level content not only got filled with more sprouts, but it seems to me that they're getting more aggressive.

Just yesterday i had a group of 3 sprouts. They're all eating vul stacks at the boss (each of them at 3) and are ignoring all mechanics. 2nd boss in doma. No one is moving into the pillars - i have extreme problems keeping the group alive (bonus group damage on vul stacks). Next time i grab one of the dps into one of the zones while heading into the other - he runs out, and i barely manage to keep the group alive.

I mention after the boss "Next time please move into the pillars, i cannot heal all this damage" and i get as an answer:

"Don't whine. I'm carrying this fkn group, so shut up and do your job." (now i'm leaving aside the irony of a 67 blm with crap gear carrying anything)


Honestly, i haven't encountered such hostility in 3 years in FF14, but i played another MMO where i saw something like this a lot. I'm not one of these good community fanatics, because lets face it, people are asshats everywhere, they're just more friendly in ff14 because the repercussions are more direct, but at least in my subjective view i encounter a lot more of these people in recent weeks.

Well, the good thing is: I now know at first hand that SE are really very fast in answering their tickets

[Xyonai]

Honestly the only time I've seen the hardcore Defensiveness directly related to FF14 is when the opinions being presented were... less than polite? More or less griping about plot points and framing it as people who enjoyed those things being idiots, then getting defensive when it turned out people don't like being called idiots lmao.

Aside from that, the Drama's been a lot more general; Shitty/Creepy FC Mates, Obligatory RP Drama, etc. Though I think part of it is that my usual crew of people are more chillaxed overall and have enough of their own gripes about game systems that they're not generally super defensive when it comes to critique unless the person doing the critique is being an asshole about it.

[Wrecktangle]

Actually it depends: In leveling dungeons, especially when it's a sprout tank i try not to let them drop below 50% - while not overhealing. I can sympathize with tanks that get a bit nervous when they're at 10% constantly (like i felt when i started as tank) - in raids... that's a different story.


Just to add to the discussion from before. While i know it's anecdotal, and the FF14 comm has its bad apples on its own, the last weeks low level content not only got filled with more sprouts, but it seems to me that they're getting more aggressive.

Just yesterday i had a group of 3 sprouts. They're all eating vul stacks at the boss (each of them at 3) and are ignoring all mechanics. 2nd boss in doma. No one is moving into the pillars - i have extreme problems keeping the group alive (bonus group damage on vul stacks). Next time i grab one of the dps into one of the zones while heading into the other - he runs out, and i barely manage to keep the group alive.

I mention after the boss "Next time please move into the pillars, i cannot heal all this damage" and i get as an answer:

"Don't whine. I'm carrying this fkn group, so shut up and do your job." (now i'm leaving aside the irony of a 67 blm with crap gear carrying anything)


Honestly, i haven't encountered such hostility in 3 years in FF14, but i played another MMO where i saw something like this a lot. I'm not one of these good community fanatics, because lets face it, people are asshats everywhere, they're just more friendly in ff14 because the repercussions are more direct, but at least in my subjective view i encounter a lot more of these people in recent weeks.

Well, the good thing is: I now know at first hand that SE are really very fast in answering their tickets

Good grief what a clown. I wonder why they felt they were carrying. It's certainly possible it was true (assuming he had ACT and you didn't to validate), but his attitude reeks like some wannabe hardcore player who can't say that in WoW because he'll get laughed out of the building since performance info is public.

He won't stay long term with an attitude like that and I'm okay with that.

[BiggestNoob]

I still don't understand how this is supposed to work. Letting tanks get to 50% before healing, fine, but I see healers wait until tanks are at 20% and I would be freaking out if I were tanking. I had one conjurer so enthralled with spamming Stone that our tank died - in Sastasha, I didn't even think that was possible.

I've been talking with my SO about pairing as a tank and healer so we know we can communicate and rely on each other, but I wonder if that will lead to us learning the jobs 'wrong'.

The main reason this happens is because of meta knowledge. If you know what we know as a tank, it won't seem weird at all.

It's stuff you'll learn by playing those classes and seeing what other people do when playing optimally, or if you just play 1 job ever, you'll just get used to eventually.

[Granyala]

in raids... that's a different story.

I'd never let the tank drop that low in raids for extended periods of time. There are tons of things that can go wrong and result in a wipe.