Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Machismo]

Hard to prove a negative, but c'mon, it's been pretty thoroughly studied at this point...

Ivermectin (Still) Lacks Scientific Support as a COVID-19 Drug



There are studies ongoing, but so far none seem to have shown any credible effect ivermectin has with regards to treating COVID--with or without a combination of other meds. So let's not even give credit to that theory until it's actually proven by reliable studies, hmm? Until then it's just another piece of junk logic in a heap of wishful thinking and we shouldn't even be suggesting that it might help.

Once again, other studies have been done (very small ones) that show it being effective when combined with multiple medications. I have even pointed out these issues, like sample sizes, and improper control groups.

The vast majority of the people pushing these studies that showed the benefits, clearly aren't experts at conducting studies.

As for "proving a negative" that's the problem with trying to test multiple variables. It either significantly cuts into your sample size, or you get muddied/incomplete data.

Do you want to take this to the Covid thread, this seems out of place here?

[Breccia]

Seven Capitol police who survived the murderous insurrection have sued Trump, Roger Stone, the Proud Boys, and a few other people.

They claim that they acted together.

Now, I'm guessing the point of this lawsuit isn't necessarily to get money or an admission of fault, but for enough probable cause for subpoenas to look for exactly such communication. If any of these groups conspired with any other, @cubby back me up here, then RICO comes to town, and everyone gets to use said communications in their own legal and civil matters.

Incidentally, the lawsuit uses the term “force, intimidation and threats” with regard to holding back Congress from certifiying, which means, yes, they're saying under oath Trump is a literal terrorist. That's way up there with what Giulian and Powell said, by the way, so expect a Trump countersuit. Problem is...if they countersue, they might have to deal with the case on the merits.

"I object to being called a terrorist! No way did I conspire with the people who attacked the Capitol!"
"Oh, so you'll turn over your records?"
"Fuck, no!"

Powell has already tried the "nobody would take me seriously" but I don't think these law enforcement members will do that. I think they want to be taken seriously. I think being nearly murdered has a tendency to do that.

Trump will do whatever is in his power to avoid taking the stand, which means a countersuit is questionable. However, he will fight this lawsuit and the subpoenas it attempts like his life depends on it.

[cubby]

Seven Capitol police who survived the murderous insurrection have sued Trump, Roger Stone, the Proud Boys, and a few other people.

They claim that they acted together.

Now, I'm guessing the point of this lawsuit isn't necessarily to get money or an admission of fault, but for enough probable cause for subpoenas to look for exactly such communication. If any of these groups conspired with any other, @cubby back me up here, then RICO comes to town, and everyone gets to use said communications in their own legal and civil matters.

This is a great move for a number of reasons.

First off, all the information that the FBI collected can be subpoenaed - which means all that data the FBI found will become essentially public knowledge, including communications from Trump to various government and private groups. Discovery is a fantastic tool if used well.

Second, these civil suits can be used by law enforcement, so if new info comes to light (and yes, civil suits can discover information that law enforcement might not, or cannot, find), we could see new or further criminal charges.

Third, civil suits go before juries, and the venue is D.C., 90%+ democrat and pissed-off-at-Trump/etc, and a civil suit has a much smaller threshold for evidence admission, and a much lower limit on liability. We could see several suits coming seeking monetary damages from Trump and everyone. And juries would be happy to hand over Trump's money to those capitol police officers.

Finally, RICO - the holy grail of getting Trump. While it's definitely possible here, I have my doubts on it working. Mainly because the FBI recently came out with their report on the lack of coordinated communication between Trump and various private assclown groups regarding the Terrorist Insurrection. It pains me to say it, but if the FBI put that report out, under the Biden administration, it would be hard to argue with - because the FBI/DoJ would have access to that kind of info/data, something the civil suits wouldn't be able to beat.

[Breccia]

Finally, RICO - the holy grail of getting Trump. While it's definitely possible here, I have my doubts on it working

If RICO is going to get Trump, it'll be for business fraud or tax evasion, the two things at odds with each other that Cohen literally wrote the book on. Trump didn't need Twitter to talk to the crowd, he had a microphone.

However, we could easily find some of Trump's circle was communicating with the murderous insurrection's organizers. Nonexpert here, but it seems to me we've seen enough that at least a grand jury could ask to see those records.

- - - Updated - - -

TSCOTUS agrees with Abbott. Kind of.

Abbott's mask ban ban is allowed to remain in place (again) while the courts look at the facts and evidence. Until then, TConstitutional law says the governor has the authoritah to do what he's doing.

This sucks, but it sounds very letter-of-the-law so I can't really complain that hard. Of course, this also means "activist governors" in other areas could and might very well do the same thing. Each state has its own rules, of course.

[Benggaul]

Once again, other studies have been done (very small ones) that show it being effective when combined with multiple medications. I have even pointed out these issues, like sample sizes, and improper control groups.

And I pointed out via the links/quotes how those studies were being disproven, retracted, or at least proven to have been not conclusive or comprehensive enough...meaning they should not be referenced as proof that there's merit.

Do you want to take this to the Covid thread, this seems out of place here?

Nah, I've said my piece. If Trumpers want to keep taking snake oil instead of getting vaccinated there's nothing either of us can say that will dissuade them in any case.

[Belize]

TSCOTUS agrees with Abbott. Kind of.

Abbott's mask ban ban is allowed to remain in place (again) while the courts look at the facts and evidence. Until then, TConstitutional law says the governor has the authoritah to do what he's doing.

This sucks, but it sounds very letter-of-the-law so I can't really complain that hard. Of course, this also means "activist governors" in other areas could and might very well do the same thing. Each state has its own rules, of course.

It doesn't matter when there still aren't any punitive measures to enforce the ban.

Abbott and the TxSCATUS can flap their lips all they want, they're still being told to fuck off by every city.

[Breccia]

Abbott and the TxSCATUS can flap their lips all they want, they're still being told to fuck off by every city.

Yeah, we've seen a rise in "I'll just cut off your funding" threats which make me nervous. But I am curious what, exactly, they'd do to a school with a mask mandate -- close the school?

[Machismo]

And I pointed out via the links/quotes how those studies were being disproven, retracted, or at least proven to have been not conclusive or comprehensive enough...meaning they should not be referenced as proof that there's merit.



Nah, I've said my piece. If Trumpers want to keep taking snake oil instead of getting vaccinated there's nothing either of us can say that will dissuade them in any case.

I'm personally voting in favor injecting bleach.

[Edge-]

https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...one-hit-2021-8

"You know, we got al-Baghdadi of ISIS, and he was trying to rebuild ISIS. And when I took over, ISIS was all over the place, Hugh. It was all over the place. And then I got a certain general who was fantastic," Trump said.

"ISIS is tougher than the Taliban, and nastier than the Taliban. And ISIS was watching, and then they were, they didn't exist anymore. And we took out the founder of ISIS, al-Baghdadi, and then of course Soleimani. Now just so you understand, Soleimani is bigger by many, many times than Osama bin Laden," Trump went on to say.

"The founder of ISIS is bigger by many, many times, al-Baghdadi, than Osama bin Laden. Osama bin Laden had one hit, and it was a bad one, in New York City, the World Trade Center," Trump added. "But these other two guys were monsters. They were monsters. And I kept saying for years why aren't they getting them? For years, I said it. I got them. The press doesn't talk about it. They don't talk about it because they don't want to talk about it. You talk about it a little bit."

Bin Laden? He's not so bad, he only did ONE THING and ONLY ONE THING!

[Breccia]

"ISIS was all over the place, Hugh"

Yugh?

" Osama bin Laden had one hit, and it was a bad one, in New York City, the World Trade Center"

Even entertaining this insane statement, which no I'm not, Trump forgot the Pentagon was also hit. How do you forget the events of 9/11? They should be just as clear to him as the people cheering on the rooftops when the Twin Towers fell. Which Trump never saw.

EDIT: Also, seems in horrifyingly bad taste to claim you wiped out the group that killed 12 Americans today. Which, again, Biden talked to the nation within the hour.

[masterhorus8]

Yeah, we've seen a rise in "I'll just cut off your funding" threats which make me nervous. But I am curious what, exactly, they'd do to a school with a mask mandate -- close the school?

I mean, closing the school is one way to cut down on the students and teachers from getting infected.

[Zan15]

Future DeathSantis President is really doing well

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/cor...253766203.html

Florida COVID update: 901 added deaths, largest single-day increase in pandemic history

Florida on Thursday reported 21,765 more COVID-19 cases and 901 deaths to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, according to Miami Herald calculations of CDC data.

All but two of the newly reported deaths occurred after July 25, with about 78% of those people dying in the past two weeks, according to Herald calculations of data published by the CDC. The majority of deaths happened during Florida’s latest surge in COVID-19 cases, fueled by the delta variant.

It is the largest single-day increase to the death total in the state’s COVID pandemic history.

The jump in the number of reported cases and deaths is due to the newest way deaths and cases are counted. The CDC implemented the change earlier this month, causing occasional one-day aberrations like the 901 additional deaths on Thursday and 726 more deaths reported Monday.

In all, Florida has recorded at least 3,151,909 confirmed COVID cases statewide and 43,632 deaths.

[Zan15]

1/7 people have had a confirmed case of covid. FFlorida.

shame 1/4 of the state of florida is confirmed idiots. 1/2 the state is confirmed morons.

[Breccia]

Florida COVID update: 901 added deaths, largest single-day increase in pandemic history.

Jesus Christ. That's two 747s crashing into each other.

[Bodakane]

shame 1/4 of the state of florida is confirmed idiots. 1/2 the state is confirmed morons.

As a lifelong Floridian, you are underestimating.....

[PhaelixWW]

As a lifelong Floridian, you are underestimating.....

There's a joke here about "actual" vs. "confirmed"...

[Breccia]

So let's talk about Florida. Let's talk about how completely fucked they've chosen to make themselves.

1) DeSantis is considering letting out-of-state nurses come to help Florida because the state is overwhelmed.

The majority of hospitals in Tampa Bay currently report that they need immediate backup to handle the surge of COVID-19 patients and, according to the Florida Hospital Association, our facilities are on the brink of a critical staffing shortage.

Health care workers facing the fourth wave of the virus say they are wiped out. Nurses say increasing incentives aren’t enough to make up for the exhaustion being felt as hospitalizations surge.

“It’s just a vicious cycle of not having enough nurses and them quitting because they’re exhausted,” Polk County nurse Tiffany Mcmahan said.

At a news conference on the delta variant at Lykes Gaslight Park in Tampa on Aug. 13, leaders from three of the largest hospital systems all said they’re seeing an unprecedented number of COVID patients.

“We need clinical nurses, respiratory therapists,” Dr. Anand said.

At a news conference in Orlando on Aug. 16, Gov. Ron DeSantis told reporters hospitals have the staffing issue under control.

“I spoke with folks in Central Florida and beyond. They all say that this is their responsibility,” DeSantis said. “I know that they’re making whatever arrangements they need to do.”

2) Florida is running out of morgue spaces to put the people who died from COVID

AdventHealth said Thursday that its Central Division morgues are at full capacity and that the backup is likely due to a slowdown at funeral homes in the area, thus causing Advent Health to "hold decedents for a longer period of time," news station WFTV reported.

AdventHealth said that it is using portable coolers in the meantime, but those are also quickly filling up.

"We have begun utilizing rented, refrigerated coolers at 10 of our campuses throughout Orange, Osceola, Polk, Seminole and Volusia counties," they told WFTV. "These coolers are quickly becoming filled also."

WFTV reported that AdventHealth has asked for help from the Florida Hospital Association, but that they are unable to request aid from the Florida Emergency Mortuary Operations Response System because the state is not currently under a disaster declaration.

There are a bunch of related versions of this story that call out specific counties one by one. Not posting those. I'm already close to throwing up, I don't need to know how restaurants volunteered refridgerators to house dead people who decided eating out without a mask was worth dying for.

3) The pandemic is worst in Florida than it's ever been. Their cases have broken records. Their hospitalizations have broken records. Their deaths fucking shattered records. Their positivity is nearly 20%.

Their new cases are 30% higher than their previous peak.

Hey remember that time when Florida broke its death record four days in a row in late July of last year? The fourth record break was 257 deaths. Look at today.

4) And before some disingenuous poster comes here to shrill "But Illinois! But Massachusetts!" Florida is the only state that's breaking death records. Vaccines are readily available, masks are everywhere, and Florida's fourth wave is their highest ever ever.

“Vaccines are working to prevent deaths in many other countries that have seen post vaccine spike in cases, and most other states in the U.S. as well. Florida is different,” Dr. Vincent Rajkumar, a professor of medicine at the Mayo Clinic, recently explained on Twitter. “What’s different in Florida is that, relative to the vaccination rate (~50%), the relaxation of distancing and masking was disproportionately high. Leaders expressed disdain for masks and mask mandates. The total number of people unvaccinated is high. And hospitals got overwhelmed.”

DeSantis ordered everyone reopened. He is still fighting schools trying to impose mask mandates.

5) Oh, right, the mask thing is in court again. Yesterday Orange County's school district reported 400 cases and also that they were applying a mask mandate. They also ran out to shut that barn door while the horses were in the pasture. They are the most recent of nine school districts, if I'm reading this right, including the six largest in the state. And that doesn't count the Disney school that just shut down entirely for a whole week.

Deaths in Florida have a seven-day average of over 200 now. To put this in perspective, that's an Afghanistan bombing...fifteen times a day, every day for the last week.

We are the first state to start the treatment centers for monoclonal antibodies. We're having great success with that. That should have been a bigger plan, a bigger part of this whole response throughout the country from the beginning

-- DeSantis, the governor of the state with the most COVID cases, hospitalizations, and deaths

Even if DeSantis was right about monoclonal antibodies, how fucking bad would Florida be without those? And also, isn't bragging about the best treatment of people you forced to get infected a lot like bragging about having the best Jaws of Life for when you run a red light in a school zone at 120MPH and T-bone a minivan filled with kids?

I would say "Florida can fuck off and die" but it sounds like I don't need to. They're handling that just fine on their own. Hey, did you hear we have yet more evidence of the collapsing condo's state of disrepair? It's horrifying.

[Paranoid Android]

https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...one-hit-2021-8



Bin Laden? He's not so bad, he only did ONE THING and ONLY ONE THING!

PHAT Orang man so jealous of Obama. But more importantly this is his classic narcissisms. If a Dem Ex Prez woulda done this say Bush actually got Bin Laden. "Err, Derr, U hate our country"!

[PhaelixWW]

We're about to reach @Breccia's not-so-favorite milestone again.

Tomorrow, most likely, the 7-day average for deaths in the US will officially be back over 1000. As a reminder, it was down to under 250 less than two months ago, before delta started burning through the anti-vax community. Case counts are up 12.5x over the last two months, as well.

[Breccia]

We're about to reach @Breccia's not-so-favorite milestone again.

Yeah...1,000 deaths a day is gruesome. I'd be even more upset if we hadn't just learned Florida is responsible for 900 of them.

I really should do a red/blue state breakdown at some point.