Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

it took minutes, seconds after Biden was sworn in for the heel to turn.

Can't help but wonder if Trump wagged his finger while trying to push rope into a prostitute, or just meeting lawyers about how badly he committed fraud.

[Stormspellz]

Your post is full of assumptions. Should I respond by conjuring some sort of assumptions of my own? Sure thing: Biden had no plan in place and just winged it and this is the result. Because looking at all this shitfest I'd be hard pressed to think there was any sort of "plan" there by Biden's team.

See? My bullshit is as good as yours there. Thus I see no reason to keep bickering over this imaginary crap. Come at people with actual arguments and not some imaginary assumptions.

whats assumption? we know trump didn't have a plan in place, we know people like miller sabotaged the visa program, we know trump released 5k taliban soldiers, including afghan's current "president", we know trump was just winging it cause he literally admitted to that in an interview

[Benggaul]

I can't believe Biden isn't live tweeting every dump he takes like Trump did!!!!! Rabble rabble!!

You joke, but that's exactly what it is. After 4+ years of having Trump's every toilet thought broadcast to the whole nation via Twitter people forgot that Presidents don't typically comment right away on everything. They're usually in a briefing session to get all of the information and make decisions first. Now, if Biden went DAYS without saying anything about it, you know, like Trump did about practically anything of importance, then I'd say that's bad leadership.

[Orange Joe]

10 dead service members today and Biden is silent. The administration is silent. The only information coming out is from journalists. Where is our commander in chief?

He isn't golfing or hiding in a bunker.

[Gaidax]

Given the circumstances speech was ok.

[Edge-]

I feel like someone from The Blaze being confused is fairly normal, not sure why that would be newsworthy.

[Shadowferal]

Oh... I think it's condor again...

[Stormspellz]

Oh... I think it's condor again...

I think of him as BronzePigeon

[Blur4stuff]

I'm feeling less critical of Biden given everything we've learned so far, but I still think they should have done a better job. I'm extremely thankful Trump isn't president for this because it would be considerably worse.

The only way I could see this hurting Biden/dems in an election is if covid didn't exist and the election was this year. Trump/republican mishandling of covid helped Biden win in the first place and they're managing to do an even worse job in 2021. The GOP is sustaining tremendous, long lasting damage. That will eclipse most other things.

[Aloie]

I think of him as BronzePigeon

Why not MetallicDodo?

[Stormspellz]

Why not MetallicDodo?

bronze for the bronze part of his name and his discussion style is best summed up as the pigeon playing chess saying

“Never play chess with a pigeon.
"The pigeon just knocks all the pieces over.
Then shits all over the board.
Then struts around like it won.”

[Omega10]

Given the circumstances speech was ok.

I did not watch the speech, but having checked out a lot of sites, his speech seemed to have the desired effect.

Reactions break down into anti-Biden rants, and stories such as this one. Note that there are far fewer articles and reactions to it than expected.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/sk...failure-192302

Title: U.S. Credibility Not Seriously Damaged by Afghanistan Failure

The gist of the article is just what the title states. It assumes that the US really will be out of Afghanistan in 5 days, and now it's time to assess the fall out from it all and move on.

The opening and ending paragraphs summarize the article:

People are predicting ... well screaming ... that the withdrawal will permanently damage the US reputation.

The chaotic end to the U.S. mission in Afghanistan is leading to a bumper crop of alarmist predictions. One of the most prominent is that the Afghanistan fiasco has severely damaged the credibility of the United States. America’s adversaries are supposedly waiting to exploit that situation and move against other, now demoralized, U.S. allies. Having “abandoned” Afghanistan, so the argument goes, all of Washington’s international security commitments are now suspect and open to a potential challenge.

The article later starts the "they are wrong" part.

The latest apocalyptic predictions are as fallacious as the earlier batch. Credibility regarding a security commitment is principally determined by two factors: the importance of the issue at stake to the guarantor power, and the military clout that the guarantor power has available to enforce the commitment. The Soviet Union was not inclined to challenge Washington’s NATO commitment because Soviet leaders concluded that the United States probably was willing to incur great costs and risks to prevent Moscow from gaining control of non-communist Europe’s crucial strategic and economic assets.

And wow ends in some praise for the Biden administration. And from the Cato Institute, not a hot spot for leftist thought.

Like other Biden administration officials, Secretary of State Antony Blinken got many things wrong about the exit from Afghanistan. However, he is entirely right about one major point. “Most of our strategic competitors around the world would like nothing better than for us to remain in Afghanistan for another year, five years, ten years, and have those resources dedicated to being in the midst of a civil war,” Blinken told CNN. Jettisoning ill-advised obligations to weak foreign clients that have little or no intrinsic value to America’s security actually benefits this country in the long term. Retaining the Afghanistan albatross in the name of preserving U.S. credibility would have been the hallmark of folly.

[Gaidax]

Title: U.S. Credibility Not Seriously Damaged by Afghanistan Failure

Quite frankly, that's some wishful thinking there.

I mean, can just read this: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/18/w...son-biden.html

It's some major copium even thinking that this is not "seriously damaging" to US credibility, especially given whole "America is back" meme tossed at allies previously:

[Draco-Onis]

Quite frankly, that's some wishful thinking there.

Meh much to do about nothing, Trump being president was the lowest our credibility got. The prospect of another Trump or Trump like figure taking over the US has permanently damaged us aside from invading Europe or something crazy there isn't much we can do to bring it down more.

[Gaidax]

Meh much to do about nothing, Trump being president was the lowest our credibility got. The prospect of another Trump or Trump like figure taking over the US has permanently damaged us aside from invading Europe or something crazy there isn't much we can do to bring it down more.

I mean, if you ask UK populace - that's pretty much what they got.

Sure he said nice words and there was this "America is back", but the actions? Just like above - Blue Trump all over again.

[Draco-Onis]

I mean, if you ask UK populace - that's pretty much what they got.

Sure he said nice words and there was this "America is back", but the actions? Just like above - Blue Trump all over again.

The fact that we elected Trump is something we can never turn back because we will most likely do it again. The Jan 6th insurrection pretty much solidified the narrative, the US is an unstable democracy that can turn into a dictatorship or a complete shit show at anytime. That's why everyone and their mothers is hedging their bets with China and Russia.

[Gaidax]

The fact that we elected Trump is something we can never turn back because we will most likely do it again. The Jan 6th insurrection pretty much solidified the narrative, the US is an unstable democracy that can turn into a dictatorship or a complete shit show at anytime. That's why everyone and their mothers is hedging their bets with China and Russia.

Well, it's not black and white. US not being reliable does not mean one should be jumping on the Chinese ship... and god certainly not Russia, it's not even a thing really, despite all these Putin playing chess memes, which is quite an exaggeration of reality.

I think that in coming decade or two Europe and UK will be looking at becoming more self-sufficient. The overreliance on US did backfire in Afghanistan, but it does not mean one should suddenly go full 180 and rush hugging CCP. Merely that maybe Europe/UK will move forward with either being a bit more than just appendage in NATO or propping their own forces and clout, while being less eager to go with the flow next time.

I think given proper lessons learned this can be better for UK/EU and US too. US would certainly prefer having capable allies too that can hold their own and not just scatter the moment US is not there, even if it means they will be more sassy about it.

[Draco-Onis]

Well, it's not black and white. US not being reliable does not mean one should be jumping on the Chinese ship... and god certainly not Russia, it's not even a thing really, despite all these Putin playing chess memes, which is quite an exaggeration of reality.

I think that in coming decade or two Europe and UK will be looking at becoming more self-sufficient. The overreliance on US did backfire in Afghanistan, but it does not mean one should suddenly go full 180 and rush hugging CCP. Merely that maybe Europe/UK will move forward with either being a bit more than just appendage in NATO or propping their own forces and clout, while being less eager to go with the flow next time.

I think given proper lessons learned this can be better for UK/EU and US too. US would certainly prefer having capable allies too that can hold their own and not just scatter the moment US is not there, even if it means they will be more sassy about it.

You misunderstand what I meant they aren't doing a full 180 and jumping on the China and Russia ship but they aren't jumping on the Anti China bandwagon that the US has been beating now. Most countries are doing deals with China or trying to stay neutral, the US is no longer a sure bet, I do agree with you that Europe and the UK have learned that lesson and should be acting on it. The fact that Trump was this close to pulling out all the troops out of Europe should scare the shit out of them enough to start doing major military build up.

[CostinR]

Meh much to do about nothing, Trump being president was the lowest our credibility got. The prospect of another Trump or Trump like figure taking over the US has permanently damaged us aside from invading Europe or something crazy there isn't much we can do to bring it down more.

I don't think you understand how this really plays out in other nations, and by other nations I mean European ones since supposedly relations with US allies were ruined by Trump...but except for Europe, supposedly, it didn't really seem to matter with Asian countries or Canada or even FUCKING Mexico where contrary to the bullshit we were hearing.

Yeah Trump was heavily disliked, but the impact that actually had on how relations worked was rather small, except really for the tit for tat tarrif war.

The closest things that Trump did that damaged relations were pulling out of Syria, or trying to, in a stupid way, and murdering Soleimani especially in how these things were handled: No NATO allies were not happy to have Trump tweeting he would withdraw from Syria at the behest of Erdogan then doing a backflip, also NATO allies, who have troops in Iraq where rather angry the US assassinated a top Iranian general without them being informed in any way.

Compared to what Biden just pulled off over the last couple of months? Insignificant. I'd rather say Biden has presided over the second biggest fuck up in US foreign policy in the last twenty years, in terms of how it will affect relations that is. ( I'd call invading Iraq, Libya and Syria interventions as the worst decisions but they didn't quite affect relations as badly ).

The biggest? Bush torturing people at CIA black sites in allied countries. Him doing that based on the goodwill US allies showed after 9/11 enraged a great deal of people.

Biden fucking up the withdrawal in such a major way in a war that virtually allAmerican allies have fought in? That is a disaster.

[Machismo]

I don't think you understand how this really plays out in other nations, and by other nations I mean European ones since supposedly relations with US allies were ruined by Trump...but except for Europe, supposedly, it didn't really seem to matter with Asian countries or Canada or even FUCKING Mexico where contrary to the bullshit we were hearing.

Yeah Trump was heavily disliked, but the impact that actually had on how relations worked was rather small, except really for the tit for tat tarrif war.

The closest things that Trump did that damaged relations were pulling out of Syria, or trying to, in a stupid way, and murdering Soleimani especially in how these things were handled: No NATO allies were not happy to have Trump tweeting he would withdraw from Syria at the behest of Erdogan then doing a backflip, also NATO allies, who have troops in Iraq where rather angry the US assassinated a top Iranian general without them being informed in any way.

Compared to what Biden just pulled off over the last couple of months? Insignificant. I'd rather say Biden has presided over the second biggest fuck up in US foreign policy in the last twenty years, in terms of how it will affect relations that is. ( I'd call invading Iraq, Libya and Syria interventions as the worst decisions but they didn't quite affect relations as badly ).

The biggest? Bush torturing people at CIA black sites in allied countries. Him doing that based on the goodwill US allies showed after 9/11 enraged a great deal of people.

Biden fucking up the withdrawal in such a major way in a war that virtually allAmerican allies have fought in? That is a disaster.

Only a fool would place this all on Biden, or even the majority on Biden.

The withdrawal was always going to be a shitshow, and nothing would have prevented it... other than never withdrawing.

Once the Taliban was told they would get to be in power when we left, it became an inevitable conclusion. And make no mistake, that's what those negotiations with the Taliban were, and agreement that when we left, they had free reign.

You'll notice that the Taliban has largely been hanging back as American forces pulled people out... even Afghanis. Hell, they were even helping to facilitate it in their own fucked-up way. Their primary goal, is to have Americans be gone, and go back to doing the same shit they were doing before we got there.

Afghanistan was handed to them on a solver platter by Trump and Pompeo.