Is anyone else just waiting it out for classic wotlk?

[Kehego]

Real PvP is on the way. Long have we waited.

Pirate server shit kekw
Dude with T6 in arena

[Kralljin]

Wrath heroics are about on pair with TBC heroics, wrath just have a much higher ilvl scaling + everyone has aoe tanking and aoe damage capability.

Nah mate, you can do every Wotlk heroic with pug in quest greens on day one, there are TBC heroics i wouldn't even do right now with a full pug or without a specific comp.

Malygos is harder then Maggy.

No, that's false, due to the cube mechanic, Magtheridon is harder than Malygos.

Malygos is frankly a complete pushover.
You cannot die in phase one unless your healers decide to fall asleep or your tank chooses for some reason run into the raid
Phase 2 is basically "Stand in a purple bubble and you're safe"
Phase 3 can be done with 1/3 of the raid being able to pilot those drakes

At no point during the Malygos encounter can a single person cause a wipe unless the tank actively sabotages during phase one and runs into the raid with the debuff left by his breath.
At Magtheridon, you can lose people because
(1) People aren't kicking the shadowbolt volley
(2) Warlocks sleep on banishing Infernals (which don't give you much leeway)

And obviously outright wipe the entire raid because of the cubes.

Magtheridon for the average pug is frankly more challenging because a single person can cause a wipe and once the fuckup is revealed, it's near impossible to recover from it.
And no, the cube mechanic isn't hard, it's just that Malygos' mechanics are even below that or that severly undertuned that mastery of the ability isn't necessary for the whole raid.

I'd rather pug Malygos over Magtheridon (in its current state) any day.

As soon as Ulduar comes along with HM's TBC is left in the dust difficulty wise.

And then TotC 10man comes out and you can replace everything but Ulduar 25man Hardmode items from content that's tuned to be doable with dungeon heroic gear.

I said it earlier in this thread: Wotlk raised the ceiling, but it also lowered the floor.

[Akka]

lastly, you couldn't 'faceroll heroics in blue gear' at the launch, some were possible if you cheesed things but most required too much dps that a full group geared only in blues wasn't gonna beat without effort at the start, however i will concede that due to them likely using the 3.3.5 talent/skill change set then dungeons will be significantly easier than they were at launch as a result of this

Oh god, again this complete lying bullshit. Must be some sort of training center to teach people to repeat this crap despite being factually false and called out by anyone who actually played WotLK.

Let's copy-paste :

Bullshit. They were faceroll even in leveling gear. We actually had moments where we though we were in "normal" mode and not "heroic mode" and went back to check because we honestly couldn't see any meaningful difference, and that was before we even got our dungeon gear.

Go check the numbers : heroic WotLK instances have only marginally higher numbers than TBC ones when it comes to damage and health... yet they happen 10 levels higher, with classes which have MASSIVELY increased output and survivability.

And in the same way :

Wrath heroics are about on pair with TBC heroics, wrath just have a much higher ilvl scaling + everyone has aoe tanking and aoe damage capability.

Naxx is about on pair with Kara. Malygos is harder then Maggy.

As soon as Ulduar comes along with HM's TBC is left in the dust difficulty wise.

Everything in this post save maybe the last line is 100 % complete bullshit.
Not just "I disagree" bullshit, but factual, checkable, bullshit that can be easily verified to be on the "retarded" part of the bullshit scale. Just looking at the numbers between WotLK and TBC instances and noticing the very small increase (as said above) would already prove this false, without even adding in the COLOSSAL change in power that the 3.0 talent and the whole reworking of mechanisms and AoE spam would bring.

That's such level of bullshit it should be legally suable.

[Malania]

wotlk was way easier than BC. seeing how BC classic content is steamrolled ATM, I can only guess what's gonna happen when wotlkC and it's easy heroics dongeons and first raids will be out. players will ask for Ulduar after a few days, tournament and ICC after a couple weeks.... wotlkC content will be burned faster than classic and tbcC combined

People did that anyway because the first raid was Naxxaramas. The only other ones were 1 boss raids, Sarth and Malygos. Of which they will not clear 3 drake Sarth in week 1.

[Zoura]

Every "classic" wow release will be the same, some hype for a month or two then everyone moves on. That's what was predicted with classic/TBC and that's what happened... By releasing 2005-2007 games in 2021 that's what you get...

I understood the "hype" for classic and bc classic because these 2 games are completely different from retail. Woltk is the first iteration of the current retail mentality... (LFD/LFR, leveling is fast, easy and easier to reroll), normal raids are a joke, Naxxramas 25 was cleaned THE FIRST WEEK by my semi casual guild, and it lasted one week only because the lag made it unplayable. Heroic dungeons are a walk in the park (no mm+), 10 man raiding is already dead, full AOE in dungeons,...

From my personal pov, i'm not even interested, I killedl LK 25HM several times and got the mount for the "clear ToC Hm with 0 deaths" achievement (THAT was hard yeah lol) before the big pre-cata nerf so I'm good, I "cleared the game"

What made Woltk better than retail ?

And everyone and their moms will play DK because DK were OP the whole xpack

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fun heroics ? Are you sure about that ? You can faceroll every heroic even with blue gear

They are scaled for blue gear lol.

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If wotlk C happens, with ICC25, gonna be fun and see if people can kill LK without the damage buff, paragon managed to kill him with the +5% buff while others did it with 10% etc. Still the best Boss kill video out there, USSO TAUNTA USSO TAUNTA

[Beuargh]

As soon as Ulduar comes along...

it's not gonna come soon enough. most of the players will already be gone if they wait more than 6 weeks to launch phase 2..

I don't think wotlk heroics are on par with tbc heroics, not from my experience anyway. to me it was way easier from day 1. I was a pleb in tbc, feeling the difficulty until the end of the xpac and all the sudden I could roll over wotlk heroics with PU groups on first try.... I'm not gonna lie to myself and act like I became that much better of a player between tbc and wotlk, it was just easier... and as you said wotlk just have much higher scaling and that's another reason why wotlkC heroics will be steamrolled early.

purple gear started to fall from the sky with wotlk, the classic version will be a joke and players will outgear the content faster than ever. Naxx was easy as hell and I don't see Malygos hard enough to be a problem, since people will have gear from naxx 10 and 25 on week 1. it's just the last part of the fight with the drakes that everybody hated IMO, not that it was harder than Magtheridon. same with sartharion 3 drakes, it's not gonna be a problem for "modern" players. Ulduar is not gonna come soon enough if they keep the same rhythm as classic and tbcC to release phases

[Coffeh]

it's not gonna come soon enough. most of the players will already be gone if they wait more than 6 weeks to launch phase 2..

This is nonsense. The percentage of hardcore players who burn through content extremely fast is very, very small.

[Kralljin]

This is nonsense. The percentage of hardcore players who burn through content extremely fast is very, very small.

Eh, crux is that especially in Wotlk you don't need to be a hardcore player to burn through 3.0 content.

I mean, you don't even need to be one in TBC, but at least the leveling + initial gearing phase eats up a lot of time.
After you capped in TBC, you likely went into Normal dungeons to get gear + Rep, you couldn't jump straight into heroics unless your comp was optimized or at least organized with remotely competent players.
Perhaps you'll do some SMV / Netherstorm quest(s) for some pre raid BiS items.
Then you have attunements, a lot of people are doing the T5 attunement right now, that's completely dead in Wotlk.
Maybe do some PvP because it has some solid (off) pieces.

Nevermind that a lot of people are still farming heroics for certain items because they're BiS, not just pre raid.

In Wotlk it's just:
(1) Hit levelcap
(2) Spam Heroics (with virtually any comp)
(3) Run Naxx / OS / EoE / VoA

Repeat (3) until Ulduar launches, because there isn't much value in doing anything besides that.

I still remember to this day how the first time i felt "done" in WoW when i played Wotlk 3.0 after burning through every single ID on reset day and went like "So...what i'm going to do for the rest of week?".

[Kaykay]

just waiting for the tbc token so i can quit the game

[Coffeh]

I was...but I've been playing Warmane a lot lately. Specifically just doing a ton of battlegrounds, and now I remember how frustrating Wrath pvp was. Just endless CC. Full to dead stuns. Every class has a stun, a slow, an interrupt. You almost never get to actually control your character. The result of balancing the classes around arena. It's really just awful.

The pve side might be interesting, but sadly Wrath was when they added the cross-server dungeon finder. RIP the community. So the social aspect of dungeons is now dead. Thus all that's left is raids. So that's the only question for me to play Wrath...do I want to just do raids. Still debating that.

[Celarent]

Eh, crux is that especially in Wotlk you don't need to be a hardcore player to burn through 3.0 content.

Yes and no. In context, you have to picture a bell curve to understand how much of the player population loves playing the game in spite of low skill and poor reflexes.

I know I've teased you a bit, but understand that I respect your ability and game knowledge. I just think it can be difficult to see the many gradations of "not great" if you're at the top.

When I started playing the game regularly in early 2009, the guild I joined had followed the path of many. In Vanilla, they'd recruited and dabbled, probably doing a little ZG; everything was new and they were happy to simply try. In BC, they had been more organized, and made use of Karazhan's player limit and ease to build teams and a guild roster. Raiders and guild leadership alike were mostly average at best; the few who were highly skilled stayed because of the guild's warmth and low-key atmosphere. I know they cleared SSC but I'm doubtful of any others, however hard they tried.

So, imagine 2.4 being succeeded by 3.0, and suddenly the guild is storming 5-mans, gearing up, and working through the raid they'd heard about but never competed in. Then clearing everything except Sarth+3D, and some of the guild's below-average Dunning Kruger braggarts looking in the mirror and flexing while they "complain" they don't have any content left. It was the time of their lives. What did they do, then? Level alts and start the high-octane journey all over again. And again. And again.

What you're saying is that the tiny subset of elite players will be driven bonkers by 3.0, but the motley crew I've just described represented — and even with WoW populations changing, likely still represents — a vast majority of players. If your highest value is the dignity of a worthy challenge for the game's most talented, then this probably isn't right or good. But if it's popularity and widely shared fun...we're still left with the fact that only a fraction of the playerbase won't be bouncing off the walls with joy.

[Kralljin]

What you're saying is that the tiny subset of elite players will be driven bonkers by 3.0, but the motley crew I've just described represented — and even with WoW populations changing, likely still represents — a vast majority of players.

You don't need to be a decent player to clear content in Classic or right now in TBC.

This whole "elitist" argument feels like a copy paste from retail but as said above, you don't need to a very good player to clear content right now in TBC- even less so in 3.0 Wotlk and add to this that all of your BiS gear comes from raiding exclusively, you don't even need to engage with much else outside of that.
Which means that even very casual players achieve raidlog status very quickly.

If your highest value is the dignity of a worthy challenge for the game's most talented, then this probably isn't right or good.

If a high skill ceiling was a huge concern for me in a video game, i wouldn't have played Classic or still playing TBCC for that matter.

Disregarding that i haven't mentioned "hardcore" in the context of skill but time investment.

[Celarent]

Which means that even very casual players achieve raidlog status very quickly.

But there are two very different endpoints for content completion, particularly in Wrath, and that's been the point I'm making. Players would wrap up, hop onto another character, and do it all over again. Still more players...wouldn't complete. They really were that...humble in talent.

Just to mention, "elitist" isn't the same as "elite," which is my word. I'm not begrudging you your skill. We may be talking past each other. To reiterate, I think Wrath Classic would/will be very popular because only a small number of players reacted negatively to its design and gameplay flow. For the rest, it was just the right level of accessibility and alt freedom, and the aesthetics/story wrapped it in a bow.

[Kralljin]

But there are two very different endpoints for content completion, particularly in Wrath, and that's been the point I'm making. Players would wrap up, hop onto another character, and do it all over again.

So...the same thing they can do now?

The "Alt" Argument is pretty much universally present in any expansion.

To reiterate, I think Wrath Classic would/will be very popular because only a small number of players reacted negatively to its design and gameplay flow.

That doesn't change the fact that 3.0 content isn't exactly stellar or plentiful, when we compare that to TBC right now (where the voices for T5 have certainly grown much louder), Blizzard quite likely has to release Ulduar much sooner and not wait 3-4 months because T7 isn't that amazing, nor is there much besides raiding in Wotlk unless you're into achievement hunting.

[Video Games]

But there are two very different endpoints for content completion, particularly in Wrath, and that's been the point I'm making. Players would wrap up, hop onto another character, and do it all over again. Still more players...wouldn't complete. They really were that...humble in talent.

Just to mention, "elitist" isn't the same as "elite," which is my word. I'm not begrudging you your skill. We may be talking past each other. To reiterate, I think Wrath Classic would/will be very popular because only a small number of players reacted negatively to its design and gameplay flow. For the rest, it was just the right level of accessibility and alt freedom, and the aesthetics/story wrapped it in a bow.

I was so bored in 3.0, the majority of my time was fishing in the fountain for coins. I hated it, so in hindsight, i should have played something else, but whatever. Players now will just quit

[Osmeric]

I mostly enjoyed Wrath. I sure as hell won't play Wrath Wretread.

[OrangeJuice]

I'm not a fan of replaying games. I don't enjoy current WoW and tbh I don't think I'd enjoy WOTLK very much either. I already played it when it came out, and everything about it I just wish was implemented in retail. Part of what was exciting for me about WOTLK was that it was new and streaming wasn't popular so there were things I could explore that were new to me, so the game felt huge. Based off my experience with classic/tbc classic, I don't think it will be as fun as I remembered it to be.

I've had an urge to play pokemon games. Just a simple rpg game with traditional style combat/progression. The last game I played was pokemon gold/silver many years ago. Recently I tried the remakes and even though it was fun for awhile going "oh yea I remember this", I eventually grew bored because I already did all this. I knew all the pokemon, I knew all the secrets, etc. For people who've never played it, it would be amazing but for me, it was just a nostalgia drip that dried out. I eventually moved on to try out the new games but ultimately what I decided was that pokemon has evolved to a level outside my realm of interest.

What I learned is that WoW is very similar to pokemon. While they held my interest I was deeply invested. But, as newer expansions came out I stopped recognizing the game. The art changed, the characters changes, and I didn't feel connected to them anymore. The difference is that I created relationships and experiences within WoW because it is an mmo. These experiences will never happen again for me, partly because I'm older but mostly because culture has changed so much that they literally can't happen just from a re-release of WOTLK.

Sorry for the long, roundabout reply but to answer the question directly: no, I'm not waiting for WOTLK classic. I don't even think I'll play it. I'm content with having memories of that era and leaving it alone so that those memories remain.

[Dejiko]

I`m waiting for Classic WoW version 2.
After that i`ll wait for Classic WoW TBC version 2.
After that i`ll wait for Classic Wotlk version 2.
By that time i imagine Classic WoW version 3 is getting ready for launch,
got to prepare for that as well.

[tomatosaucin]

stoked to play some warrior in wotlk for sure

[Nak88]

Is 25 loot much better than 10 or is it just a slight minimal difference? I would like to stick with a 10-15 core of friends in WotLK and not depending on other 10-15 casuals to show up every week to raids.