Do all classes require 15+ buttons rotations?

[TomGreen]

https://www.akhmorning.com/ and https://saltedxiv.com/ are the two I see referenced the most.

Is that first website broken? I only see guides for 3 classes

[Absintheminded]

Is that first website broken? I only see guides for 3 classes

No, I think that's just what they have. I had forgotten they only had the magic dps jobs

[TomGreen]

At 60 your rotation is p-retty much done, excluding the single-target/aoe xenoglossy stuff.

You basically
Blizz3>Blizz4>T3>Fire 3>Fire4 x3>Fire1(To Refresh fire)>Fire4 x3 and repeat.

It's important to NOT forget the Blizz4 when you're back in ice before going back to Fire. The reason being the blizz4 gives you the hearts, which lets you cast that many fire 4 (reduces the mana cost). It's also important to check your timer for Fire stance to see if you need to re-use Fire1 earlier (based on if you had to move etc) so as to not let your aspect thing drop.

In between, for now, you spam Transpose on cooldown while running between fights, so again your aspect doesn't drop. In combat, transpose is an emergency "I fucked up" button and didn't leave enough mana to go back to Ice. Eventually, youll get another ability that replaces transpose for your 'running between mobs' maintenance.



I wouldn't worry about maximizing your Ring of Power (keke) yet, just use it on cooldown and try to stay in it, but dont stress about it until you get the rotation stuff down.




I think it's important for BLM to understand why youre using your abilities -

Fire1 - used to keep Umbral Fire Up when already in it
Fire 3 = Used to get you back to x3 Umbral Fire after Ice
Fire 4 - Used to for damage
Blizz 3 - Used to get x3 Umbral Ice up (itll replace fire with 3 ice, rather than blizz 1 which will NOT, thus screwing your rotation)
Blizz 4 - Used to Get Hearts to Make Fire spells Cheaper

lots of people forget to do the blizz 4, ruining their fire rotation


Freeze does the same for Flare eventually, so you can Freeze->Flare>Flare without going OOM on the first Flare. You'll have to use Transpose after Flare to cast Freeze again, but eventually youll get a passive thatll make it so you can go straight into Freeze from Flare without needing to transpose (it makes the rotation easier, by reducing the cost of the next opposite element spell, so Flare>Freeze is free [though Freeze>Flare isn't free]).

Throw in foul etc whenevs. Eventually you'll use a Despair after your last Fire4 rotation, but for now just focus on the bold above.

I fucking hate rune of power and here I am in ffxiv doing it again with black mage. That thing just follows me around.

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Search for XIVLauncher. I provides a built in interface to install plugins with one of them being a combo mod. So far it works flawlessly to me because I know that using multiple abilities in the same macro leads to delays for some reason.

Square Enix don't care that people use these things right? I don't want to get banned.

[Scathan]

lmfao all of those are not required for Dragoon's rotation. Nice try, though.

Yes they fucking are.... lmao. If you aren't utilizing those you aren't playing the job correctly

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You are arguing semantics here, all these buttons have to be pressed in your rotation

[Advent]

Excessively complex rotations is, in my opinion, the biggest flaw of FF14.

That's definitely not the word I'd use. Bloated is more accurate. Because the rotations don't require much thought, if any, and they're just made intentionally long and tedious for some reason or another.

[Scathan]

There is nothing traditionally straight forward with black mage. Now, it will likely feel straigh forward once you learn and become good at it, but you have to recognize how it might be a bit too difficult for many.

I disagree. It is straight forward and one of the easiest rotations in the game on a target dummy. Knowing which opener to use may be complex though.

[Garretdejiko]

Excessively complex rotations is, in my opinion, the biggest flaw of FF14.

While I would concede that jobs are not a thing you can pick up in 10 minutes like wow clases, they aren't by any means complex. It's like saying that solving 1+1+1+1 is complex, just because it's longer than 1+1.

[Biomega]

It's like saying that solving 1+1+1+1 is complex, just because it's longer than 1+1.

That depends entirely on the definition of "complexity", because there's plenty of those in which 1+1+1+1 definitely IS more complex than 1+1 even though most vernacular, intuitive understandings of "complex" would find either to be trivial.

In game design you often distinguish between comprehension complexity (how hard is it to understand) and tracking complexity (how hard is it to remember everything). Long rotations are tracking complexity much more so than comprehension complexity - but what's even more important, in many cases, is DEPTH, i.e. how difficult is it to make the proper decision.

WoW's focus has increasingly shifted away from complexity and towards depth: for most classes, use of their abilities is easy to understand (low comprehension complexity), and there aren't that many abilities (low tracking complexity) - where good players differentiate themselves is in knowing when to press what button, i.e. high depth. Most WoW rotations have now become IF-THEN statements much more so than linear chains, while games like FF14 and SWTOR remain more focused on tracking complexity over depth with rotations that are not very reactive, but have a lot of sequential nuance to them (long chains of similar but slightly varied uses, that eventually loop).

There is, of course, no simple "one is better than the other" scenario here. Some people prefer less depth, some prefer more; some prefer more comprehension complexity, some prefer more tracking complexity; and so on.

[Garretdejiko]

That depends entirely on the definition of "complexity", because there's plenty of those in which 1+1+1+1 definitely IS more complex than 1+1 even though most vernacular, intuitive understandings of "complex" would find either to be trivial.

In game design you often distinguish between comprehension complexity (how hard is it to understand) and tracking complexity (how hard is it to remember everything). Long rotations are tracking complexity much more so than comprehension complexity - but what's even more important, in many cases, is DEPTH, i.e. how difficult is it to make the proper decision.

WoW's focus has increasingly shifted away from complexity and towards depth: for most classes, use of their abilities is easy to understand (low comprehension complexity), and there aren't that many abilities (low tracking complexity) - where good players differentiate themselves is in knowing when to press what button, i.e. high depth. Most WoW rotations have now become IF-THEN statements much more so than linear chains, while games like FF14 and SWTOR remain more focused on tracking complexity over depth with rotations that are not very reactive, but have a lot of sequential nuance to them (long chains of similar but slightly varied uses, that eventually loop).

There is, of course, no simple "one is better than the other" scenario here. Some people prefer less depth, some prefer more; some prefer more comprehension complexity, some prefer more tracking complexity; and so on.

Look, it doesn't deserve much analisys, which is why I went with a string of 1's instead of varying the numbers. FF lights up the next ability in the chain, without that, DRG would be unplayable. The capital sin of 2.5s gcd at lower levels helps to ease new player into simple 3 ability chains, the you gradually get more abilities while leveling, that's why you shouldn't boost if you're a new player. I'm not saying FF>WOW either, it's not that simple and it's a taboo statement here lmao.

Bottom line, if you need to heat up additional brain cells cause you find the ff rotations "Excessively complex", the you should probably lay down after reading long paragraphs

[Biomega]

Bottom line, if you need to heat up additional brain cells cause you find the ff rotations "Excessively complex", the you should probably lay down after reading long paragraphs

I think you may be just equating "complex" and "difficult" there. You see people complaining a long chain is complex (and it is), and what you read is them complaining that this is "too hard" for them. Which is not what most people mean. It isn't so much about not being ABLE to handle long rotations as much as it is about not ENJOYING them.

I personally would have no trouble maintaining these long rotations in FF14 (or SWTOR), but I just don't like that kind of gameplay. It bores me. It gives me little room to showcase skill and understanding. I prefer the WoW-style reactive rotations full of opportunities to be better because I know what button to press when, as the situation demands (and not simply as the next item on the list comes up). But that's a personal choice. Some people like it, other people prefer it differently.

[Cthulhu 2020]

While I would concede that jobs are not a thing you can pick up in 10 minutes like wow clases, they aren't by any means complex. It's like saying that solving 1+1+1+1 is complex, just because it's longer than 1+1.

Skill floor isn't as low as WoW, but is still low. Skill ceiling for some classes is mid, skill ceiling for some classes is stupid high. There is extreme complexity in some jobs that is not immediately apparent that's far more than just 1+1+1+1.

Yeah, the basic rotation for the average casual is somewhat simple. But if you get into speed running and optimizing, there's incredible complexity.

[Absintheminded]

I think you may be just equating "complex" and "difficult" there. You see people complaining a long chain is complex (and it is), and what you read is them complaining that this is "too hard" for them. Which is not what most people mean. It isn't so much about not being ABLE to handle long rotations as much as it is about not ENJOYING them.

I personally would have no trouble maintaining these long rotations in FF14 (or SWTOR), but I just don't like that kind of gameplay. It bores me. It gives me little room to showcase skill and understanding. I prefer the WoW-style reactive rotations full of opportunities to be better because I know what button to press when, as the situation demands (and not simply as the next item on the list comes up). But that's a personal choice. Some people like it, other people prefer it differently.

Check out DNC, it's pretty simple, requires fewer buttons, and the reactionary abilities just overwrite current abilities for a short time. It's actually pretty fun.

[Stormwolf64]

I disagree. It is straight forward and one of the easiest rotations in the game on a target dummy. Knowing which opener to use may be complex though.

Disagree all you want, but if the opener is complex then its not as straight forward as you say.

[Narzok]

once you start thinking of 1-2-3 combos as 1 single string, the rotations become much easier.
i don't even remember the names of skills in the combo because i just remember "combo 1" and "combo 2"

so a typical rotation like this: "combo 1 with CD and potion " - "combo 2 with oGCDs 1 and 2"
can either be shown as:

1 Skill A
2 Skill B
3 CD A
4 Skill C
5 CD B
6 Skill D
7 oGCD 1
8 Skill E
9 oGCD 2
10 Skill F

or

"combo 1 with CD and potion " - "combo 2 with oGCDs 1 and 2"

guess which one is easier to remember.
additional bonus: i don't have to think about things like "keep Jinpu and Shifu buff up" because it is fixed part of the respective combo anyways.

tl;dr: memorize patterns instead of individual skills to reduce complexity.

[Eapoe]

I play both Wow and ff14 at the same time but took a break from Wow. So I started playing FF14 more often on my white mage, I mostly enjoyed watching the story because honestly doing the MSQ is more about playing a movie ala Metal gear than actually leveling which I enjoy.
I wanted to see what was ahead of me so I started to look up guides and I was really horrified. It looks like you need to press like over 10 buttons and do a rotation of 15+. Honestly its so many buttons you begin to appreciate the pruning of skills in wow.

Take for example White mage, I got cure 1(single targe) cure 2(single target+) Cure 3(for some reason targeted AOE)... and it frustrates me because it seems so unnecessary since there is the Medica line of spells which are AOE.

I wanted to play Black mage and then I learn that if you like to move your DPS suffers. And that class is a 15+ button pressing class. Im like, doesn't square know what FUN is? This is not it!
I am a proponent of get gud, but this is ridiculous! You shouldn't have to learn more than 6 buttons at the most imo, a controller has 8 buttons, 10 if you count the L3 and R3.

Another thing, and this is a tangent, is there anything else other than raids at max level? I am not much of a raid player anymore and enjoyed the hell out of Mythics, is there anything like that in FF at max level?

Just started playing. Play a Hunter in WoW still, so I wanted something other than rdps. Figured I’d try a Ninja. Still only lvl 14, but a guildie in WoW who plays said that they have about 20 buttons dedicated to it. Some have more, some have less.
That said, I’m hoping it plays like WoW. For instance, I have 4 action bars for my Hunter in WoW, but any of them aren’t really used too often to notice.

[Swnem]

Excessively complex rotations is, in my opinion, the biggest flaw of FF14.

It really isn't. You just have to play the game at max level for a bit and it will all come to muscle memory.

People just need to get out of their comfort zone of simple 3-4 button rotations from WoW and use modifiers like shift or control, or mouse buttons/mmo mouse. Getting out of the comfort zone is daunting, but once one does, they will enjoy it.
It's just like the move from clicking to keybinds. You get used to it and it feels better.

[Eapoe]

It really isn't. You just have to play the game at max level for a bit and it will all come to muscle memory.

People just need to get out of their comfort zone of simple 3-4 button rotations from WoW and use modifiers like shift or control, or mouse buttons/mmo mouse. Getting out of the comfort zone is daunting, but once one does, they will enjoy it.
It's just like the move from clicking to keybinds. You get used to it and it feels better.

It’s all a matter of preference. When it comes to games, some people get more enjoyment out of easier to play play styles rather than complex button loaded inputs.
For instance, I probably wouldn’t enjoy Zelda as much if I had to press 12+ buttons just to fight a boss. Whereas something like Guitar Hero/Rock Band can be quite fun; but, there’s a difference in approach to how it’s styled.
A game like WoW or Final Fantasy loses its appeal if I have to pay more attention to an input system than what’s going on. It’s one reason I hate QTEs. I have to pay more attention to the button prompts that I miss what’s going on in the background.
Now, I fully admit that this is my personal opinion and some ppl have an easier time playing multibutton combo specs.

[The Casualty]

Just started playing. Play a Hunter in WoW still, so I wanted something other than rdps. Figured I’d try a Ninja. Still only lvl 14, but a guildie in WoW who plays said that they have about 20 buttons dedicated to it. Some have more, some have less.
That said, I’m hoping it plays like WoW. For instance, I have 4 action bars for my Hunter in WoW, but any of them aren’t really used too often to notice.

Ninja boils down to spamming your 1-2-3 Aeolian Edge combo, refreshing with 1-2-4 Armor Crush when your haste buff (Huton) drops below 40 sec, spending Ninki so you don't overcap, and prepping for your Trick Attack burst Window every 60 seconds. During your 15 seconds of TA you burn everything pretty much in the same order barring any fight limitations, and you have one of two variations: one with Ten Chi Jin and one without.

There are about 14 hotkey buttons you will press at least once per minute:

1. Spinning Edge
2. Gust Slash
3. Aeolian Edge
4. Armor Crush
5. Trick Attack
6. Shadow Fang
7. Dream Within A Dream
8. Assassinate
9. Bhavacakra
10. Kassatsu
11. Ten
12. Chi
13. Jin
14. Ninjutsu

You also have longer cooldowns - the first is 90 seconds the rest are 120 seconds.
15.Bunshin
16.Mug
17.Meisui
18.Ten Chi Jin

You also have 3 AoE hotkeys, not including Ninjutsu abilities:
19. Death Blossom
20. Hakke Mujinsatsu
21. Hellfrog Medium

Finally, your non-DPS abilities. These you won't necessarily be using all the time, but rather as the situation demands:
22. Second Wind
23. True North
24. Feint
25. Shade Shift
26. Arms Length
27. Hide
28. Shukuchi
29. Bloodbath

I suppose there's also throwing dagger, but that gets limited use especially at higher levels. So 30 abilities you will want hotkeys for. It fits pretty neatly on 3 hotbars, and you will have room for LB, Leg Sweep, Potion, and Sprint.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I guess I would have to ask then: What's an example of a job that's "incredibly complex"?

Black mage has an incredible amount of depth when it comes to planning out your rotation and where you'll put your leylines and when. Of course you can be lazy about all of that and just do the basic rotation and kill normal raids with no problem, but again that's where the "low skill floor" comes into play. Gunbreaker is a 5head tank where you often have to know when tank busters are coming up at the same time as your burst, so you can pop cooldowns 5-10 seconds EARLIER than most tanks would, just so you don't have your weave rotation interrupted. Summoner is similar to black mage in that you have to plan out when and where you can stand still in certain fights, and when you must be on the move and thus cast stuff that is instant.

The great majority of players do normal trials and raids and never do anything else. EX trials sort of demand you go in a bit deeper. Savages and Ultimates demand you go in really deep.

[Swnem]

It’s all a matter of preference. When it comes to games, some people get more enjoyment out of easier to play play styles rather than complex button loaded inputs.
For instance, I probably wouldn’t enjoy Zelda as much if I had to press 12+ buttons just to fight a boss. Whereas something like Guitar Hero/Rock Band can be quite fun; but, there’s a difference in approach to how it’s styled.
A game like WoW or Final Fantasy loses its appeal if I have to pay more attention to an input system than what’s going on. It’s one reason I hate QTEs. I have to pay more attention to the button prompts that I miss what’s going on in the background.
Now, I fully admit that this is my personal opinion and some ppl have an easier time playing multibutton combo specs.

That is fair enough. But zelda with 12 moves? I don't see a problem with that.

Think of devil may cry and all it's moves. That is considered good combat. I really dislike simplistic gameplay myself. Zelda combat is quite boring to me. The fun comes from the puzzles and exploration. FFXV had a "hold button to attack" system and i really hated that.

I don't think it's like a QTE. As i say, as you play the game more, you will get used to keybinds you set and you will be able to play the game without even looking at them. If there were indeed random procs, that would be way more difficult. That is why the rotations make sense as they are + encounter design. You will hit the point where you don't need to look at your rotational abilities, you just need to look at your long cooldowns.
But, yes, i suppose different people have different preferences.