Do Healers have to DPS now during down time in between heals?

[kenn9530]

So if someone got 1/10 and healed it, and hadn't killed all the others they'd have more say than someone who healed 9/10 and dps'd Sire?

That's... really some take.

A dps only char has no say in healing content if they dont heal no matter what content they do, it means they have no clue on the content as a healer at all, pretty simple logic dont you say.

So you're removing yourself from the discussion again, got it.

I have healed everything i have done, so i can judge for myself how the content is for a healer, if a dps player only does dps then they dont have a clue.

[Biomega]

A dps only char has no say in healing content if they dont heal no matter what content they do, it means they have no clue on the content as a healer at all, pretty simple logic dont you say.

That's pretty smart actually.

"I know what I can do even if I haven't done it, therefore I can judge whatever I like; but you can't, because you haven't done it."

I feel like this is shaping up to be an even MORE productive conversation than before.

[kamuimac]

didn't notice it being harder on my shaman at all this week compared to last week... have to do less healing...

and yet 3 dos runs i tried this week on 19/20 were broken for the same reason - healer just couldnt keep up group on "1 big guy" pulled withouth nf vase


interesting thing they were all shamans

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

As a venth holy pala main, this week suuuuuucks.
Like, hardcore.
Grievous feels like doing 2-3 key levels higher than non-grievous weeks on the healing requirement front. That said, I typically play with an ele shaman who can take care of most of the bad damage on trash, so I just have to worry about mawsworn and bosses, but it's still painful

TBH I find the spiteful more annoying than grievous this week. I play Kyrian paladin healer so I have DT every 60 seconds to heal off grievous on the entire group, so that's not really an affix I care much about at all. Grievous just means I occasionally have to heal people to full instead of letting them sit at 80% for a while.

[kenn9530]

That's pretty smart actually.

"I know what I can do even if I haven't done it, therefore I can judge whatever I like; but you can't, because you haven't done it."

I feel like this is shaping up to be an even MORE productive conversation than before.

8/10 mythic CN is more than enough of what was considered current content to have a say in it simple as that.

[kamuimac]

I pugged few 20 range keys at the start of the week and few below 20 on my alt and boy, do the healers suck at grievous. Fire tormentor mob is hell, 3rd boss in spires, now that I think of it, whole spires is pure struggle for a pug healer. SD 2nd and 3rd boss. Just to name a few places where people are retarded apparently cause healer cant carry them. (That also takes into account mage and rogue both using cloak and block on different times so healer could focus on 1)

Depending on a role you play, you tend to pug another and sadly, since I play tank, I sometimes have to pug last dps or a healer and boy, this week is pure healer flaming everything week. They are just horrible and while I do appriciate healers who take on the job cause they like it, this week brings out peeps who heal only for glory and for being carried while thinking they carry.

(specially toxic peeps are vent holy paladins and priests)

3rd boss in spires is bugged like mofo this week . seen him twice recharging in puddle because how fast it went off ><

[Henako]

That's pretty smart actually.

"I know what I can do even if I haven't done it, therefore I can judge whatever I like; but you can't, because you haven't done it."

I feel like this is shaping up to be an even MORE productive conversation than before.

This is what it's like arguing with Kenn. You may as well stop now.

[Kyanion]

A dps only char has no say in healing content if they dont heal no matter what content they do, it means they have no clue on the content as a healer at all, pretty simple logic dont you say.

Oh sure as long as we're using the same logic that you cannot comment on healing content you've not done so nothing for the current raid, nothing in a mythic 16+, nothing for the prior 2 expansions. Your 'healing' knowledge is limited to mythic 15-16's and 8 mythic bosses from the last raid, nothing else.

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That's pretty smart actually.

"I know what I can do even if I haven't done it, therefore I can judge whatever I like; but you can't, because you haven't done it."

I feel like this is shaping up to be an even MORE productive conversation than before.

I know I'm highly entertained by his mental gymnastics while he tries to move the goalposts and then kick something through them while they move.

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and yet 3 dos runs i tried this week on 19/20 were broken for the same reason - healer just couldnt keep up group on "1 big guy" pulled withouth nf vase

That guy on 19 was pure murder. If dps slacks a bit there because they are saving cooldowns for the next multi-group pull then he can just flat out end people because of rages.

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TBH I find the spiteful more annoying than grievous this week. I play Kyrian paladin healer so I have DT every 60 seconds to heal off grievous on the entire group, so that's not really an affix I care much about at all. Grievous just means I occasionally have to heal people to full instead of letting them sit at 80% for a while.

Spiteful sucks for melee when groups are combining pulls to burst them down and they pop out as some things die, seen more than one melee get murdered in it or just have to bail and get out of that pile for a moment.

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8/10 mythic CN is more than enough of what was considered current content to have a say in it simple as that.

Nah it isn't. You have knowledge of 8 bosses in one raid and nothing in the prior 2 expansions and nothing on this patch. You don't have enough knowledge to comment on it, simple as that.

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grievous doesn't even have time to start doing damage on those so... grievous was not the problem...

Well from my group's experience it was a rage that put out grievous, then masks then a rage again, so if groups were slow to heal up during that time sure it could be bad. But the damage from the rage alone took me from 100 to 20% if I remember right, that's a lot of grievous to heal for some healers (not my healer, but other groups I can see it.) We were saving cooldowns for a later pull so he lived longer than I'd have liked.

[Vasilisa]

What's the problem with healers dpsing? Imagine tanks stop using any offensive abilities once they establish threat or dps who won't move because they're here to dps and if they move it lowers their damage. Stop being special snowflakes who are hurt by asking to do something that not in the name of their role and instead focus at helping each other in order to complete dungeon smoothly.

[arkanon]

What's the problem with healers dpsing? Imagine tanks stop using any offensive abilities once they establish threat or dps who won't move because they're here to dps and if they move it lowers their damage. Stop being special snowflakes who are hurt by asking to do something that not in the name of their role and instead focus at helping each other in order to complete dungeon smoothly.

Apples and Oranges. A tank deals damage as part of its role, ALL players are expected to do the mechanics, tanks, healers, and dps.

[Vasilisa]

Apples and Oranges. A tank deals damage as part of its role, ALL players are expected to do the mechanics, tanks, healers, and dps.

Oh, I wasn't aware that once you enter the dungeon healers dps skills are removed from their spellbook. Seriously, this whole "problem" comes from some healers being too proud to dps (or having sticks too deep in their.... :P).

[arkanon]

Oh, I wasn't aware that once you enter the dungeon healers dps skills are removed from their spellbook. Seriously, this whole "problem" comes from some healers being too proud to dps (or having sticks too deep in their.... :P).

You know this is a strawman, right? I never said the spells were removed. Resorting to this shows how soft your "argument" is to begin with. You know tanking abilities are not removed from the spellbook either - should a resto druid hop into bear from at the start of every pull and grab some aggro? If not, why not?

From the beginning, my argument has remained the same - in certain content, under certain conditions, at certain difficulties, there is an expectation that a healer will be dpsing as much as possible. But to claim (as some have) that healers have ALWAYS been EXPECTED to dps, even as far back as vanilla, is just false.

[Vasilisa]

With this I agree, I don't remember pre legion healers to dps. Though right now it should be a common practice that when a healing is not constantly needed that healer is helping with offensive spells and abilities.

[Ryzeth]

I know I'm highly entertained by his mental gymnastics while he tries to move the goalposts and then kick something through them while they move.
.

Ignore him, he literally can't read. He thinks killing the first Mythic boss counts as "working on progging Mythic" despite the fact that people have killed the first Mythic boss of every raid literally since Mythic became a thing, because it's always a loot pinata boss.

[froschhure]

it's nice but i would never blame the healer for dpsing to less, purely optional

[Tinary]

Apples and Oranges. A tank deals damage as part of its role, ALL players are expected to do the mechanics, tanks, healers, and dps.

Tanks dealing 1k dps as part of their role yes, tanks doing 3k-4k dps is not part of their role, its using skills they otherwise doesnt have to use. Dps mitigating dmg is also part of dps role, healer dpsing is also part of its role. Its people vs environment. If your point is, that tank has to gather resources therefore he uses his dmg abilitys then healers do the same? Ashen hollow, resto druid necro ability, priest kyrian ability? To name a few. Therefore its part of their kit and rotation to deal damage.

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i've never wiped to grievous from them... the groups that i've been in that wiped on them just outright die to the rage because they don't use any cds... each player(5) will take like 68k damage over 5 seconds of the rage prior to any damage reduction in a +20 this week... that's 65k dps on the group, no healer will heal that unless people are using cds themselves to reduce the damage... i just want to bang my head against the keyboard every time there's been a wipe to them because people aren't pressing their personals...

In pugs its mostly dps def cd first rage, healer ones 2nd. Unless a healer tells otherwise.

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it's nice but i would never blame the healer for dpsing to less, purely optional

I have had twice a holy paladin on mist who never used ashen on first boss at 19. If asked why not "theres nothing to heal".

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With this I agree, I don't remember pre legion healers to dps. Though right now it should be a common practice that when a healing is not constantly needed that healer is helping with offensive spells and abilities.

During cata, some healers regenerated mana trough dealing damage like for example resto shaman had an ability called "lightning strike" which after you hit someone with it gave you 1-2% mana. So during downtimes, you used it to regenerate your mana. Usually you popped mana tide and spammed it. (Also, dragon souls, spine of deathwing, healers were expected to burst the thingy that connected the plates also)

[arkanon]

Tanks dealing 1k dps as part of their role yes, tanks doing 3k-4k dps is not part of their role, its using skills they otherwise doesnt have to use. Dps mitigating dmg is also part of dps role, healer dpsing is also part of its role. Its people vs environment. If your point is, that tank has to gather resources therefore he uses his dmg abilitys then healers do the same? Ashen hollow, resto druid necro ability, priest kyrian ability? To name a few. Therefore its part of their kit and rotation to deal damage.

Give me ONE example of a tank that goes from dealing 1k dps to 4k dps - just one single example of a tank that is able to quadruple its damage output by using buttons it wouldn't normally use. Just one.

"dps mitigating dmg is also part of dps role" - rubbish - it absolutely is NOT part of the role of dps - it is part of the game, but in no way is it specific to DPS at all. It is an expectation of ALL players that they mitigate damage were possible, and that hasnt changed since day 1 - the same cannot be said for healers being EXPECTED to dps.

And finally, you are completely off base - you are only talking about specific examples in the current expansion - the people im discussing this issue with claim it has ALWAYS been an EXPECTATION that healers dps during dungeons and raids - since Vanilla - this is the point i am saying is absolutely false.

One last thing - the damage dealing abilities you mention as "part of their kit" are NOT part of their kit typically, and are just a throwaway tacked on power that will be gone next expansion.

[Tinary]

Give me ONE example of a tank that goes from dealing 1k dps to 4k dps - just one single example of a tank that is able to quadruple its damage output by using buttons it wouldn't normally use. Just one.

"dps mitigating dmg is also part of dps role" - rubbish - it absolutely is NOT part of the role of dps - it is part of the game, but in no way is it specific to DPS at all. It is an expectation of ALL players that they mitigate damage were possible, and that hasnt changed since day 1 - the same cannot be said for healers being EXPECTED to dps.

And finally, you are completely off base - you are only talking about specific examples in the current expansion - the people im discussing this issue with claim it has ALWAYS been an EXPECTATION that healers dps during dungeons and raids - since Vanilla - this is the point i am saying is absolutely false.

One last thing - the damage dealing abilities you mention as "part of their kit" are NOT part of their kit typically, and are just a throwaway tacked on power that will be gone next expansion.

Lets take veng dh? Basic rotation Shear and soul cleave. Now, other spells are all optional and only for damage or mitigation. That is your core rotation to keep resource up and spend it. Sigils, all optional. Fel deva? No need to cast if demon spikes is enough for dmg miti. Fiery brand also. Infernal leap weaving. All optional spells like healer dps ones. Need more examples?

Dealing damage is also part of the game and has not changed since day 1. Healers having dps skills are all here since day 1.

I also provided examples of other expansions, specially during cata where some healers mana regen was tied to dpsing, sadly you didnt read that part.

I listed coventant abilitys cause the topic name is "do healers have to dps now" which refers to shadowlands aka current expansion? Therefore my examples are justified since they are this expansion things? Altho, I did point out other expansion also which you did miss again.

Anything else?

[czarek]

That's kinda silly ATM. Pally or dodo healers are easly outdpsing core dpsers >< on some encounters.

[Vasilisa]

During cata, some healers regenerated mana trough dealing damage like for example resto shaman had an ability called "lightning strike" which after you hit someone with it gave you 1-2% mana. So during downtimes, you used it to regenerate your mana. Usually you popped mana tide and spammed it. (Also, dragon souls, spine of deathwing, healers were expected to burst the thingy that connected the plates also)

Ah right, I totally forgot about resto shamans