Why the negative response to all the positive changes in 9.1.5

[Dracullus]

Because it is exactly that, because they had all this negative feedback and specific criticism back during the beta. Responding to beta feedback a year late is not something you should be praising a game developer for.

It's funny some of you pretend they don't listen to feedback cause they didn't listen to stuff connected to covenants (not to mention it wasn't unified feedback from whole community). Scraping AP grind, loot -forgings, targetable legendaries, PVP vendor etc. - all wanted things are forgotten next day they are introduced and that other thing becomes THING THAT DESTROY WOW. People actually praised Blizzard for listening during SL Alpha/Beta (unlike BfA Alpha/Beta).

Also obviously people starting to quit February/March is because covenant choice, not because there was no new patch. Duh.

This patch is just typical lifting off restriction from launch on late expac. Done sooner than usual, cause SL should perform better at this stage of expansion. Don't make from it Mike Ybarra descending from heavens to punish Ion and bring back balance to the force.

[Echo of Soul]

Sure, but new management needs to start somewhere.

New management? As far as I know Ion hasn't been replaced as game director but I'm not ruling out me missing important news.

[Unholyground]

Because we've been telling them since Beta that this is the way it should have been and that we know better than them yet they still try to make it look like look like they figured out the solution. We have literally been telling them stuff like this for 4 expansions or more but they continue to ignore player feedback until further into the expansion. I'm not playing Wow anymore I made my wife not play anymore and we're not supporting WoW anymore until some major changes and a sub price drop happens, if both of those things don't happen there are plenty of well maintaimed pservers out there if we feel the itch.

[Pheraz]

Imo the crying is a very exaggerated. I do not like, and never liked, from the first look until now, the theme of SL. This is my problem. I do not like the theme at all. All the rest is just crying in my opion. Raids are great, alt playing is totally easy. No idea why everyone cried about the conduits or covenants. I have 22 chars anyways soooo I could use some change in covenants. But the whole concept of covenants from a theme perspective is bad , IMO.

Edit: they should just end this xpac soon, send us back to Azeroth and everything will be fine. You know, there will always be people complaining about anything.

[Yarathir]

Because most people aren't gullible enough to believe this changes anything. Most of these are things that should've been part of launch, and this has happened more times than I could care to count. They announce a feature, people express concern, then it's put in alpha/beta and tested, and people express more concern and give feedback, Blizzard ignores it, launches with the feature in the exact same state, it's not well received, and after months, when Blizzard is finally bleeding subs, they make the necessary changes and then proceed to repeat this with the next feature or system they introduce in a patch or expansion.

[Nadiru]

Sure, but new management needs to start somewhere.

And they will have to persist thru the lack of goodwill before people rally around them.

[Yarathir]

And they will have to persist thru the lack of goodwill before people rally around them.

This. Earn people's goodwill and respect back. If they wanna be frustrated at players having none left for them, they can blame those who came before and cocked it up. Trust is earned, and they've squandered all of it for a good while now.

[Daedius]

Pity I've quit WoW for good way back in February.

[Kaver]

Everyone is complaining its some desperate attempt to grab players back that should have been in game from the start. People still flaming blizz and the new systems coming in 9.1.5.

New management is taking over and immediately making positive changes, why is this a bad thing? This is a promising thing for the future.
I've played more heavily than I would like to admit since TBC and this already was a more alt friendly/new player than other expansions (even more so than Legion and BfA were which seem to be the most similar comparisons to modern wow). Now I do admit I mainly M+ and can gear a toon to 230+ in about a week and already have 4 alts key logging, but as someone that mainly stays off the toxic forums and just enjoys the game I don't see much validation in the complaints besides, possibly, entering pvp as a new/alt player. Is this just an echo chamber for blizz bashing now?

It's not about complaining. It's about not praising Blizzard for cleaning up their up mess.

Blizzard are fixing the mistakes they made at the beginning of the expansion and then they present it as new content.

They have no respect for the players and treat us like we are braindead.

[cuafpr]

for most its 2 little 2 late, and does little to nothing to combat the RNG on top of RNG that plagues wow right now. Look at its top competitor, want to farm mounts great you get a token for a boss kill save up enough and you can buy the mount if RNG hates you, run dungeons get tokens for gear... it gives you a way to combat bad RNG luck something is lacking imo (esp the mount thing....)

[Belloc]

I did not notice a single positive change in 9.1.5. Every change is net negative to the game. It's a sure way to ruin WoW.

Conduits being freely swappable is a net negative? New character customizations are a net negative? Legion timewalking is a net negative? Skippable maw introduction is a net negative? Easier allied race unlocks? Easier alt leveling?

I mean, did you even look at the changes?

[Unholyground]

Imo the crying is a very exaggerated. I do not like, and never liked, from the first look until now, the theme of SL. This is my problem. I do not like the theme at all. All the rest is just crying in my opion. Raids are great, alt playing is totally easy. No idea why everyone cried about the conduits or covenants. I have 22 chars anyways soooo I could use some change in covenants. But the whole concept of covenants from a theme perspective is bad , IMO.

Edit: they should just end this xpac soon, send us back to Azeroth and everything will be fine. You know, there will always be people complaining about anything.

Your life clearly revolves around WoW though and you probably play no other games. Most people aren't like that and like to have other game experiences and mmo's aren't about sinking all your waking hours into, not anymore anyway, we're adults most of us now who started playing WoW when we were younger with tons of free time and can't afford to play all the time now.

[loras]

Everyone is complaining its some desperate attempt to grab players back that should have been in game from the start. People still flaming blizz and the new systems coming in 9.1.5.

New management is taking over and immediately making positive changes, why is this a bad thing? This is a promising thing for the future.
I've played more heavily than I would like to admit since TBC and this already was a more alt friendly/new player than other expansions (even more so than Legion and BfA were which seem to be the most similar comparisons to modern wow). Now I do admit I mainly M+ and can gear a toon to 230+ in about a week and already have 4 alts key logging, but as someone that mainly stays off the toxic forums and just enjoys the game I don't see much validation in the complaints besides, possibly, entering pvp as a new/alt player. Is this just an echo chamber for blizz bashing now?

It's not complaining, it's tentative approval.

It's like a drug addict not smoking/sniffing/injecting for a day: A good day, but whether it leads to meaningful change remains to be seen.

[Unholyground]

I did not notice a single positive change in 9.1.5. Every change is net negative to the game. It's a sure way to ruin WoW.

Their current design philosophy just does not work anymore, They are trying to design wow to keep people engaged in systems that actually make people not want to play the game and hence the Exodus. No matter what anybody says MMO's are casual they will never go back to being hardcore get over it.

[Tziva]

I mean, because people like different things and disagree about what is best for the game.

Personally I am very stoked about almost every change coming in the patch. It can't come fast enough, because a good portion of it is stuff I have wanted since the start.

Because as most people that have voiced the negative sentiments pointed out, that this has become the MO of the devs since Legion.

(1) Introduce a system with obvious flaws / drawbacks
(2) Disagree with feedback given during Beta
(3) Reiterate after Launch that you disagree with it
(4) Implement the suggested changes months after launch

People want functional systems with .0, not .3, .2 or even .1.5.

Also this.

[Ohsorry]

Because it's the same thing over and over again.

Players provide endless feedback during alphas/betas on these core systems, and they continue to ignore them.

Systems are looked at and fixed towards the end of an expansion.

They need to stop trying to make the game as to how they think we will enjoy it and start listening to what the players what. We are the consumers. We play the game.

Players are finally voting with their wallets, and they're haemorrhaging subscribers as a result of their continued arrogance in giving the players what they want.

It's too little too late, imo.

[Deneios]

Think it like they are renting you a car.

The beta
They have a pictures of the car and they offer you a test drive. You notice that steering is wonky, brakes dont work, seats are dirty and wind shield has a crack. You tell these problems and they promise to fix them. You trust them because they gave you a good deal once.

The 9.0
The day comes and they deliver the car to your house. Only thing they have done is they have cleaned the seats. You tell them again of the problems you have with the car and they say they will look into it in the future. You still drive a dangerous and crap car.

The 9.1
The car goes to the rental place mechanic and comes back and they say they fixed the steering. You go for a spin and notice that its bit better but still not as it should be. You give feedback again.

The 9.1.5
The car goes to the mechanic again and they say they will fix the crack in the wind shield. The steering is still not properly fixed and the brakes are still not working.

You decide to leave the car in the bad part of town with keys in the ignition and buy a bicycle.

The car rental asking why you are no longer renting from them.

[Djaye]

blizzard stopped caring about creating a game to attract new players. they cater to the 5% and wonder why they cant keep player subs
no changes made were done for any reason other than PR damage control.
they didnt all of a sudden listen to player feedback, its been there for over a year.
there is no 'new management'. old management is just being quiet. very quiet. everytime they make a statement, they eat shit. so they are staying very quiet.
there is no redeeming blizzard at this point. there has been too much damage.
they dont care about making a good game/world anymore.

- - - Updated - - -

Think it like they are renting you a car.

The beta
They have a pictures of the car and they offer you a test drive. You notice that steering is wonky, brakes dont work, seats are dirty and wind shield has a crack. You tell these problems and they promise to fix them. You trust them because they gave you a good deal once.

The 9.0
The day comes and they deliver the car to your house. Only thing they have done is they have cleaned the seats. You tell them again of the problems you have with the car and they say they will look into it in the future. You still drive a dangerous and crap car.

The 9.1
The car goes to the rental place mechanic and comes back and they say they fixed the steering. You go for a spin and notice that its bit better but still not as it should be. You give feedback again.

The 9.1.5
The car goes to the mechanic again and they say they will fix the crack in the wind shield. The steering is still not properly fixed and the brakes are still not working.

You decide to leave the car in the bad part of town with keys in the ignition and buy a bicycle.

The car rental asking why you are no longer renting from them.

great analogy

[Dancaris]

Because forums are toxic as hell. People like hating and bashing for some trivial stuff. Especially novadays, when post in social media can decide future of people. And people like to cry and shitpost. And final in my opinion reason - they dont have own opinion and hate the game because bloggers do so. And bloggers do so because its selling better than videos about how game is good.

[HyperJay]

Everyone is complaining its some desperate attempt to grab players back that should have been in game from the start. People still flaming blizz and the new systems coming in 9.1.5.

New management is taking over and immediately making positive changes, why is this a bad thing? This is a promising thing for the future.
I've played more heavily than I would like to admit since TBC and this already was a more alt friendly/new player than other expansions (even more so than Legion and BfA were which seem to be the most similar comparisons to modern wow). Now I do admit I mainly M+ and can gear a toon to 230+ in about a week and already have 4 alts key logging, but as someone that mainly stays off the toxic forums and just enjoys the game I don't see much validation in the complaints besides, possibly, entering pvp as a new/alt player. Is this just an echo chamber for blizz bashing now?

Because its the exact same thing that happened with Legiondairies, Azerite Armor, and Corruptions (the biggest/most notable offenders in recent history).
It goes like this:
They release a borrowed power system into Alpha/Beta ->They get a massive amount of feedback from players about very very basic fixes that would turn a flawed system into a decent one -> They refuse to change the system despite massive criticism and imply that either players don't know what would be a good idea OR that the change is not possible for coding reasons -> 6 to 18 Months when player numbers drop or there is a content drought they will release the EXACT same change that players begged for since Alpha testing under the guise of "well we figured it out"/"well it suits the game better now".

Don't misunderstand the critisism, no one is angry at the actual changes being made to the game: they are all positives that people literally begged for. The issue is that its taken Blizz almost 12 months to do this change to covenants, and that the reasoning they use for why they held off on the changes are flimsy at best, bullshit at worst.