[Movie] Spider Man 3: No Way Home

[Immitis]

One guy is assuming that. The rest of us are just commenting on how Tom's Spidey doesn't need Tobey's Spidey to lecture him about power and responsibility. Tom's Spidey already gets it.



They also all have Aunt May. They're all orphans. They're all shit at holding up to their commitments as Peter Parker. They've all had mentors that turned out to be Super-Villains. They're all incredibly bad at keeping their secret identity actually secret.

this whole thing just feels like a repeat of the avengers assemble argument

[Egomaniac]

this whole thing just feels like a repeat of the avengers assemble argument

I'm not sure what that's about.

But here's the point. Just because Peter has not said those 6 specific words does not mean he doesn't understand the concept. In CA:CW he basically paraphrased them. Check it out



"When you can do the things that I can" - Power

"They happen because of you" - Responsibility.

In some ways it's actually better than just parrotting what Uncle Ben said verbatim. He's defining the concept in his own words.

So he doesn't need Tobey's Spider-Man to come in and tell him that. He gets it. He's gotten it since that time he let the bad thing happen. Just Like Tobey and Andrew's Spider-Men.

And he certainly doesn't need either of them to be his new mentor. When was the last time either of them helped saved the universe?

As to the Spider-fight you mentioned in your last post...well, the last guy that claimed to come from an alternate universe kinda fucked up Peter's life... so I imagine he won't be quite so trusting this time around.

[Syegfryed]

It’s exactly what literally means. Maybe you didn’t understand his speech, but he was talking about how being able to do something means you have a responsibility to do so. Otherwise you’re at fault for not. If it’s not a responsibility you can’t be at fault.

ITs not the same thing, its not the same words, it does not hit the same, period.

It's a much more personal way of saying the same thing. It hints at Peter's origin without having to spend 45 minutes of the movie building up to the death of Uncle Ben.

why do you think they have to build 45 for a throwback reference that, since like some people are arguing, "was already said" would just emphasize and consolidate things?

I do agree with Vegas on this as well. The two phrases both convey the same meaning which is at the core of Spider-man;

Again, "both having the same meaning, is not the same as the well know phrase, being said in his own movie.

Basically, having someone tell MCU Spider-man "with great power comes great responsibility" doesn't add anything to the character because he likely has already hear those words and he certainly already lives his life by them.

Its not to add that much, is just to consolidate and mature his way of thinking, plus a fanservice for older fans.

[Syegfryed]

Maybe not for you, but it actually hit harder for me in context.

Maybe it did for you, but it was meh for me, and saying on the actual spider movie, by an old man spider, would be just gorgeous

[eschatological]

Maybe it did for you, but it was meh for me, and saying on the actual spider movie, by an old man spider, would be just gorgeous

You're like the guy RedLetterMedia parodies, aren't you? Interesting.

[Makabreska]

"With great power..." line is so overused and was parodied so many times, it lost all it's weight it had for me.

[RobertoCarlos]

Maybe it did for you, but it was meh for me, and saying on the actual spider movie, by an old man spider, would be just gorgeous

I mean theres already thousands of film that do that because its the expected thing to do.

Baby boomer tells millennial to get his head out of the clouds.

What if they treated the millennial like he already had a brain and could think for himself! Like a genius superhero, maybe hes actually capable of individual thought

[Egomaniac]

why do you think they have to build 45 for a throwback reference that, since like some people are arguing, "was already said" would just emphasize and consolidate things?

Because "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" is just a phrase. The way Peter says the thing he says...you know he's talking about something more personal. They don't need to show you that he let a criminal he could have stopped escape and that criminal later ended up killing his Uncle.

[Immitis]

I'm not sure what that's about.

from the first avengers movie all the way until endgame lots of people constantly bitched that nobody ever said avengers assemble

people would say things like "they dont need to say it theyre already a team" "it would be pointless and feel shoved in" etc etc

just like spider-man with great power and great responsibility and when cap finally said avengers assemble people cheered.

you guys are acting like theyre showing bruce waynes parents die again in a 15 minute segment, who cares if they say it in this movie its just fanservice

hell what if tobey says it right before he dies

we have no context for how why or where its said in the movie other than leaks saying its somewhere near the climax of it

[Egomaniac]

you guys are acting like theyre showing bruce waynes parents die again in a 15 minute segment,

And you guys are acting like it needs to be said when the entire point we have been making is that it doesn't. Tom's Peter knows all about power and responsibility.

who cares if they say it in this movie its just fanservice

If you don't care...why are you pushing for it to happen?

[Syegfryed]

Because "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" is just a phrase. The way Peter says the thing he says...you know he's talking about something more personal. They don't need to show you that he let a criminal he could have stopped escape and that criminal later ended up killing his Uncle.

An iconic phrase, not just a phrase, and again, said by an old peter, the one who start the spider movies, would be very iconic too

You're like the guy RedLetterMedia parodies, aren't you? Interesting.

i don't know what that means, so if it was a joke os sarcasm was missed.

I mean theres already thousands of film that do that because its the expected thing to do.

Baby boomer tells millennial to get his head out of the clouds.

What if they treated the millennial like he already had a brain and could think for himself! Like a genius superhero, maybe hes actually capable of individual thought

I mean, why do you think it have to be like that, in a condescending way and not just something to support him?

- - - Updated - - -

And you guys are acting like it needs to be said when the entire point we have been making is that it doesn't. Tom's Peter knows all about power and responsibility.

nobody said that "the point was not being made" it was made, in a way, in a captain america movie,

not everything in life is "necessary" and still is done for a number of reasons, doing that would feel iconic, would be a mark in the movies, would be fanservice and, to me, would consolidate and mature his thinking even more.

But i guess the movie will be ruined if they say a phrase

[Adamas102]

from the first avengers movie all the way until endgame lots of people constantly bitched that nobody ever said avengers assemble

people would say things like "they dont need to say it theyre already a team" "it would be pointless and feel shoved in" etc etc

just like spider-man with great power and great responsibility and when cap finally said avengers assemble people cheered.

you guys are acting like theyre showing bruce waynes parents die again in a 15 minute segment, who cares if they say it in this movie its just fanservice

hell what if tobey says it right before he dies

we have no context for how why or where its said in the movie other than leaks saying its somewhere near the climax of it

"Avengers assemble", while iconic, is kinda just a throwaway line. It doesn't really mean anything special, that's why they can skip it or just jam it in wherever to hit that fanservice button. The "with great power..." speech is supposed to carry more meaning and guide a newly super-powered Peter to becoming the friendly neighborhood Spider-man. That's why jamming it in just for fanservice seems silly when none of your Spider-men need to hear it. If Andrew Garfield's Spider-man dies and says the "with great power..." line directly to Tobey and no one else, would you cheer for that? The way we see it, that would have the exact same weight as Tobey saying it to Tom.

[Egomaniac]

An iconic phrase, not just a phrase, and again, said by an old peter, the one who start the spider movies, would be very iconic too

It being said by an old Peter, that this Peter has no emotional connection to, is meaningless.

[Adamas102]

nobody said that "the point was not being made" it was made, in a way, in a captain america movie,

not everything in life is "necessary" and still is done for a number of reasons, doing that would feel iconic, would be a mark in the movies, would be fanservice and, to me, would consolidate and mature his thinking even more.

But i guess the movie will be ruined if they say a phrase

Why would it "mature his thinking"? The assumption is that he has already heard those exact words, we just didn't need to see it because the MCU has made the wise decision that rehashing origin stories we've seen on screen multiple times is completely unnecessary for these really well known characters.

It's not that it would ruin the movie, but it would suck the meaning out of the line.

[Syegfryed]

It being said by an old Peter, that this Peter has no emotional connection to, is meaningless.

they are both spider mans and are both variants of the same being, but sure, no connection at all, they didn't even have similar experiences and could nto share something.

Why would it "mature his thinking"? The assumption is that he has already heard those exact words, we just didn't need to see it because the MCU has made the wise decision that rehashing origin stories we've seen on screen multiple times is completely unnecessary for these really well known characters.

Yeah, the assumption, he may never heard of it, we never knew what happened with his uncle bean, if it was the same way, or the same reason, Ben's death in the first movie was very iconic and emblematic, that still holds weight to this very day, i see no problem in trying to translate that feeling here, keeping the universe alive.

It's not that it would ruin the movie, but it would suck the meaning out of the line.

For some people maybe, for other not rly, and again, fanservice, theaters would be blow away by it.

[Egomaniac]

they are both spider mans and are both variants of the same being, but sure, no connection at all, they didn't even have similar experiences and could nto share something.

The point is they have the similar experiences...meaning the older one imparting wisdom in the form of "WGPCGR" is meaningless. Peter's already lived through that.

[Syegfryed]

The point is they have the similar experiences...meaning the older one imparting wisdom in the form of "WGPCGR" is meaningless. Peter's already lived through that.

Old man spider obviously lived more and experienced different kinds of feelings, i don't see what is the problem

Is just like Old man Loki showing and saying something, is not a big deal, rly.

[Egomaniac]

Old man spider obviously lived more and experienced different kinds of feelings, i don't see what is the problem

Lived through what different feelings?

Feeling responsible for the Death of his Uncle? Nope. All of them got that base covered
Having someone they looked up to turn out to be a villain? Nope...that's one they all have in common too
Feeling like their personal life will always take a back seat to being Spider-Man? Samesies

Garfield's Spider-Man might have more to teach regarding loss...but it's something they've all felt.

Tom's Peter isn't a rookie. He's done more than the other two combined. When was the last time either of them helped save the universe? They're the ones that should be taking notes.

[Syegfryed]

Lived through what different feelings?

Feeling responsible for the Death of his Uncle? Nope. All of them got that base covered
Having someone they looked up to turn out to be a villain? Nope...that's one they all have in common too
Feeling like their personal life will always take a back seat to being Spider-Man? Samesies

Garfield's Spider-Man might have more to teach regarding loss...but it's something they've all felt.

Tom's Peter isn't a rookie. He's done more than the other two combined. When was the last time either of them helped save the universe? They're the ones that should be taking notes.

Well if you just dumb down everything, maybe, But Tobey had way more problems considering his personal life and struggles with his old aunt, no money, no job, her going trough the hospital by his enemy who knew his identity, having to make a chocie about the woman he loves and a ton of innocent people.

Ok tom was present when they saved the universe, but Tobey struggled way more than him and almost died countless of times., Like, he didn't save the Boat, Tobey saved the Train

Tom holland was just along the ride,

But again, if you don't want that, that is you, as a spidey fan too i think it would be awesome

[qwerty123456]

Since they de-aged Alfred Molina I wonder if they are going to de-age Tobey Maguire.


Also while its cool they are doing this it kinda sucks they are dooming the Raimi Universe when they inevitably kill off Tobey here. Especially if they send the villains back in the end. I'm sure they wont do anymore films with those universes but lorewise there is going to be a reality in the Marvel MCU where there is no hero and Super villains are running around.