Why the negative response to all the positive changes in 9.1.5

[Gaidax]

You keep having this picture of Blizzard like they are not a 100% money driven company, when everything shows they are. Yes, SC3 or w/e would always sell well (like everything Blizzard does), but AAA companies want more. Why take risk and put huge rescources in development and marketing of a new game, when they can simply keep monetizing current games? They are not paralized, nor bancrupt creatively. They just follow the AAA guidelines of maxing revenue. It's a small miracle they decided to make D4.

But they don't have shit... omg...

You are talking as if Blizzard is in some amazing shape with pipeline full of games and projects. They are simply not, they did not release shit last 5 years except for usual milking which looks like staving off the bleed more than actual plan to grow. They are bleeding customers across the board, simply because they release nothing new and at best re-release something old or at worst put their existing portfolio in the grave with HoTS and now Overwatch.

This is a very objective failure. I have no bloody clue how you don't see that. Risk in development and marketing? It's fucking Starcraft - it will market itself. They just need to have some bloody balls and vision, but with their crippled management of incompetents - nobody has the balls to get it going.

Get it through your head - releasing ANYTHING new is better than releasing NOTHING new for 5 years plus. The shit Blizzard is in - it's in because it did not have any healthy new game delivery pipeline for years. You can only hold on with old shit for so long.

And guess what if they'd take Starcraft 2 engine and did a big ass paintjob over it like they do with Overwatch "2" and produce a new story/trilogy, they could absolutely sell millions of copies and make a chill half a billion just from that alone. Maybe if they'd release it in 2020/21, they would not have half the bloody MAUs they had 4 years ago now.

[Kralljin]

As for Kotick: The company was mismanaged for years and if anything Kotick should probably have been more of a presence. I don't know that Kotick tightened the reins in 2013 or not.

Point is more that Kotick went in and likely said something along the lines of "Produce more at lower cost!" and didn't care about the rest.
Which frankly expedites certain issues as people barely suited for a job are even less functional when they're put under pressure.

Halfassed approaches sometimes make things even worse.

Most all of that is on Morhaime who set up the culture of "Release it when it's ready" which is something they've used to overpromise content and features, create extravagant budgets, and miss deadlines (see WC3: The Lame Return).

I think you're throwing two seperate things into the same bucket.

"When it's ready" was, back in the day, at least made up by generally good games, i don't look at Blizzard releases of the 90's and early / mid 2000's and say "Oh, those games were actually bad, we just didn't know it any better!".
This whole philosophy simply became a sham when their quality started to decline because this entire sentence implies that the company delays games until they reach a high level of quality, whereas something such as Reforged was frankly shat out because incompetent people were in charge of the project until management decided to cut their losses and sell a dysfunctional product.

It's like when a person whom everyone trusts starts to lie, the problem isn't that people trusted that person, the problem is that the person started to abuse that trust.
Again, it leads back to incompetent people being in charge of projects, they likely used that as an excuse to move deadlines despite the overall product still not living up to a given standard - simply because they fucked up the project to some extent.

[Crispin]

They need to do something, to distract from the current shitshow they've got going on.

[glowpipe]

This is looking up to be a great .5 patch. but people have been so dissapointed with the game this far that they expect a miracle. They expect core expansion level changes in a small .5 patch. Which has never happened and will never happen. The changes most people want is in 10.0, not before. There will hopefully be some goodshit in 9.2, but nothing major like complete system makeovers etc.

[Gaidax]

Point is more that Kotick went in and likely said something along the lines of "Produce more at lower cost!" and didn't care about the rest.
Which frankly expedites certain issues as people barely suited for a job are even less functional when they're put under pressure.

Halfassed approaches sometimes make things even worse.

Don't mix your irrational hate with reality.

Somehow Activision is spiking just fine, because you know - they release good games their playerbase actually likes, despite Bobby Kotick the devil incarnate apparent.

Yes, Kotick knows how to grow business and make money. But the basis for making a lot of money is to offer a good product, so no you don't have Kotick slamming his fist on the table demanding their product be a cheap shit. That's just some silly forum conspiracy story about big bad corporate Activision and poor selfless gamer-first Blizzard.

In my personal opinion - Kotick should have fucking roundhouse kicked Blizz HQ doors and started burning all the shit inside with a fucking flamethrower back in 2017 already when the Blizz would show him their pipeline consisting of nothing but same old crap + remasters, when the signs were cropping up. He gave Blizzard way too much free reign and they made a pigsty out of it.

[Makabreska]

But they don't have shit... omg...

You are talking as if Blizzard is in some amazing shape with pipeline full of games and projects. They are simply not, they did not release shit last 5 years except for usual milking which looks like staving off the bleed more than actual plan to grow. They are bleeding customers across the board, simply because they release nothing new and at best re-release something old or at worst put their existing portfolio in the grave with HoTS and now Overwatch.

And they are STILL making record revenue and that's all that matters to them. Why are you ignoring that? They wanted to make money, their approach made them money, that's it. They don't care about loosing subs and the future, untill it actuall comes and hits their wallets. We are talking about a company that quickly fired 800 employees to boost their approaching quarterly report.

[Kralljin]

Don't mix your irrational hate with reality.

Considering Kotick literally said "i want to take the fun out of making video games" and openly fosters a culture of profit over anything else, i wouldn't portray Kotick as the "good guy" in this story.

Bear in mind, this scandal of sexual harassment isn't just Blizzard, but Activision Blizzard as a whole and this entire thing about poorly paying employees (which also affects the quality of your games) is also something that is certainly not unbeknownst to him.
Kotick also could've told the entire HR staff across all of Activision Blizzard to take this shit seriously, but he didn't, because he either didn't care or failed in his role to oversee them, altough i strongly doubt that all of this was news to Kotick.

Somehow Activision is spiking just fine, because you know - they release good games their playerbase actually likes, despite Bobby Kotick the devil incarnate apparent.

I'm not deeply invested enough into Activision Products to have an educated opinion on their games or how their business model operates, but simply linking equating profit to quality products isn't exactly a smart thing.
Once you have an established franchise, you can milk the shit out of it.

EA also makes tons of revenue by releasing a new FIFA title every year, i'm not sure if those are worth the full box price - disregarding MTX.

[Gaidax]

And they are STILL making record revenue and that's all that matters to them. Why are you ignoring that? They wanted to make money, their approach made them money, that's it. They don't care about loosing subs and the future, untill it actuall comes and hits their wallets. We are talking about a company that quickly fired 800 employees to boost their approaching quarterly report.

Because even you understand it's not sustainable - there is only so many employees you can fire and only so many MTX you can milk out of your rapidly dwindling MAUs and only so many optimizations you can make.

Saying that's a good management, let alone good business plan... shiet... I don't know what to say to that even. The failure is real - the fact that Activision has almost tripled their MAUs in last few years, where as Blizzard halved and lost their whole management just exemplifies this.

Reminds me of what a CEO of startup I previously worked for told me when it was spiraling down said - people don't run away from success.

[Makabreska]

Because even you understand it's not sustainable - there is only so many employees you can fire and only so many MTX you can milk out of your rapidly dwindling MAUs and only so many optimizations you can make.

Saying that's a good management, let alone good business plan... shiet... I don't know what to say to that even. The failure is real - the fact that Activision has almost tripled their MAUs in last few years, where as Blizzard halved and lost their whole management just exemplifies this.

Reminds me of what a CEO of startup I previously worked for told me when it was spiraling down said - people don't run away from success.

Yes, this model of constantly trying to make more and more money via cuts and micros was never sustainable, but it never mattered to these companies. Blizz revenue skyrocketed in past 6-7 years, and that's only what matters to them. Is it really so hard to grasp that AAA companies treat it as a huge succes and care little about long term costs? Was Kotick granted insane bonuses for years, because shareholders thought this model is failing? They keep getting tons of $$$ now, they don't care about tomorrow. This is exact same shit that happens in other places. Keep releasing re-skinned FIFA packed with micros and watch the cash rain down. And regarding "lost management", we already know that they started to run roughly at the time California state harrasment investigation started.

[Kumorii]

Yes, this model of constantly trying to make more and more money via cuts and micros was never sustainable, but it never mattered to these companies. Blizz revenue skyrocketed in past 6-7 years, and that's only what matters to them. Is it really so hard to grasp that AAA companies treat it as a huge succes and care little about long term costs? Was Kotick granted insane bonuses for years, because shareholders thought this model is failing? They keep getting tons of $$$ now, they don't care about tomorrow. This is exact same shit that happens in other places. Keep releasing re-skinned FIFA packed with micros and watch the cash rain down. And regarding "lost management", we already know that they started to run roughly at the time California state harrasment investigation started.

Pretty sure that tomorrow is very important. More so than a quick buck. The reason why Ion hasn't been fired is because of increased revenue and thus they think it will increase further. Especially since there are no hints for it to slow down yet...

Companies at this size tend to care more about long term I think. Smaller companies might focus more short term. Until they can think long term.

[Elias1337]

Conduits being freely swappable is a net negative? New character customizations are a net negative? Legion timewalking is a net negative? Skippable maw introduction is a net negative? Easier allied race unlocks? Easier alt leveling?

I mean, did you even look at the changes?

And what makes you think that making game easyer and faster is somehow good change? It feels more like some sort of entiltment of players what want rewards but doesnt want put any effort to get them. BTW we were not forced by anyone to have our bis covenants and conduits but you can be sure that players will demand it in 9.1.5 just for the fact everybody can swap into bis and you have no excuse anymore to not be in your bis build.

[Gaidax]

Pretty sure that tomorrow is very important. More so than a quick buck. The reason why Ion hasn't been fired is because of increased revenue and thus they think it will increase further. Especially since there are no hints for it to slow down yet...

Companies at this size tend to care more about long term I think. Smaller companies might focus more short term. Until they can think long term.

I'm pretty certain Ion is considering moving out on his own soon(tm).

It's likely that he cut some good deal with Blizzard for another year of stay and overseeing new expansion release and then just moving on. I base this on their associate game director position they have opened. Ion himself is likely tired of being a target dummy for swarms of pepegas and he knows that he'd be grabbed instantly by potentially better place the moment he leaves.

[Dziubla]

Because the player base is incapable of being happy. I said it before, and I will say it again, people nowadays have this mentality, that if Blizzard gave everyone a million bucks, they would still bitch and moan and ask "why not 2?".

(that's not to say that there aren't absolutely valid reasons to complain, because there sure are, but again, people are going way overboard)

[exsanguinate]

And this new management working hard to try to make positive change was the ones in charge before launch?

are you really so far removed from reality? these are all panic mode changes. If none of this had happened what they are in right in, they wouldn't have changed sh*t. these "positive changes" are just a pitiful attempt to get players to come back. as soon as they are in a better financial situation, they don't give a sh*t about your opinion. you are nothing more than a small pile of worthless dirt to them, a source to suck the money out of you.

think about it.

[Gaidax]

Because the player base is incapable of being happy. I said it before, and I will say it again, people nowadays have this mentality, that if Blizzard gave everyone a million bucks, they would still bitch and moan and ask "why not 2?".

(that's not to say that there aren't absolutely valid reasons to complain, because there sure are, but again, people are going way overboard)

This is just a silly hyperbole.

Do this exercise - find my posts about WoW from let's say 3 years ago. Whoa - whole different person! Some even accused me of being a shill and white knight and often at that.

What happened is that Blizzard simply spent all that good faith and benefit of the doubt currency over the years repeating same old mistakes. Where as 5 years ago it was all peachy new systems much wow and 2 years ago it was "hmm, mistakes happen it will surely get better" - today we get to the point where after ~4 years of same fuckups and consistent decline I just can't bring myself to write them a blank faith check.

It's up to Blizzard to restore that faith and 10.0 is where the real test be. It's their blank slate, tabula rasa and they have just enough time for that one to re-learn their lessons of last 5 years.

[Kumorii]

I'm pretty certain Ion is considering moving out on his own soon(tm).

It's likely that he cut some good deal with Blizzard for another year of stay and overseeing new expansion release and then just moving on. I base this on their associate game director position they have opened. Ion himself is likely tired of being a target dummy for swarms of pepegas and he knows that he'd be grabbed instantly by potentially better place the moment he leaves.

If so I don't think he is planning on getting grabbed after leaving, he probably have another deal already. Just finishing his contract if so.
Yeah, I wouldn't blame him for leaving due to vitriol. People can say what they will, but I liked his talks about features and their reasoning. I don't necessarily agree all the time, but it's nice to have someone who goes into details of the thought process.

Sadly there have been less of it, probably due to the hate received. Oh well.

[deenman]

Good thing you are still here in August to tell everyone.

By the way this thread is going...y'all rejoice. I hope Blizzard shuts down the game and it will make all your lives happier. And also MMO-C goes off line and y'all find another place to ejaculate your pitch black hate...oh...sorry..."constructive feedback"

Imagine defending blizzard in ''insert current year''...ykes

[justandulas]

Because it’s a meaningless change that is basically something they’d have done in 9.2 anyway.

There was a circular graph meme going around before SL launched about introducing systems, ignoring feedback, fans hating it, and eventually give them what they want before introducing new systems that are equally hated and ignored next expac.

9.2 needs to be mind alteringly great. 10 patches worth in a single patch.

We’ve seen by atvi actions that all this is nothing but lip service and that atvi is focused on their evil empire, not doing right by gamers

[Zantera]

I kinda wish I got to experience the community at some sort of optimism peak but in reality there's always been a cloud of discontent. I remember my own excitement in TBC was massive but there were a lot of "I don't care for these new space zones, it's not WoW" and "Flying ruined the game". Wotlk was "too casual friendly and easy" by adding LFD and free epics and who doesn't remember the term "wrathbaby" that was used as an insult for any 'shill' who defended that expansion back then. Cataclysm 'ruined' the old zones and the dungeons were too 'hard' and Dragon Soul caused a lot of negativity both for the raid itself but also adding LFR. MoP got a lot of crap for pandas and pet battles, WoD with "no gameplay outside garrisons", Legion was RNGcraft at its heaviest with LFR items rolling up to mythic quality, legendaries being very badly implemented initially, BFA had azerite gear, essences, corruptions, SL has obviously had a lot of controversies on its own.

For me personally the game has had its ups and downs over the years though for me it mostly boils down to if I like the people I play with and the current raid/dungeons, but I just feel like there's never been a time in the game where people collectively agreed things were pretty good. Maybe in vanilla? But I'm sure people complained then too.

[bloodkin]

Because as most people that have voiced the negative sentiments pointed out, that this has become the MO of the devs since Legion.

(1) Introduce a system with obvious flaws / drawbacks
(2) Disagree with feedback given during Beta
(3) Reiterate after Launch that you disagree with it
(4) Implement the suggested changes months after launch

People want functional systems with .0, not .3, .2 or even .1.5.

I'd argue that this was already present in WoD, seeing as a lot of beta testers gave feedback on the over importance of the garrisons and it's flaws.