Report: Tax Returns of the Top 25 Wealthiest in America

[Machismo]

This is a silly argument:

A tax of $10 on a person who makes $100 in a week is a burden. A tax of $1000 on a person who makes $10,000 in a week is not a burden

A burden is defined specifically as a heavy load

Once again, it's an increase on their burden.

You have people in here who want to take away almost all of their wealth, billions and billions of dollars from a single person.

That sure seems like a heavy load to me.

So, let me know how much more you are willing to pay, until you feel burdened.

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The wealthy and the poor are not one type of people that live the same lives with the same access, power, privilege and lawyers. You may as well say we are all human therefore Bill Gates getting more taxes hurts the guy begging on the streets.

But, they are people who all deserve liberty.

I'm not trying to ignore the freedoms of one, because it's uncomfortable.

[Themius]

Once again, it's an increase on their burden.

You have people in here who want to take away almost all of their wealth, billions and billions of dollars from a single person.

That sure seems like a heavy load to me.

So, let me know how much more you are willing to pay, until you feel burdened.

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But, they are people who all deserve liberty.

I'm not trying to ignore the freedoms of one, because it's uncomfortable.

You live in a fantasy world are a 20% tax on the poor is the same as a 20% tax on the wealthy.

[Machismo]

You live in a fantasy world are a 20% tax on the poor is the same as a 20% tax on the wealthy.

Nope, the poor pay considerable less in taxes as compared to their income.

The wealthy are already paying more, just like the middle class are also paying more than the poor.

The whole "true tax rate" nonsense being pushed by Propublica is disingenuous.

[Draco-Onis]

But, they are people who all deserve liberty.

I'm not trying to ignore the freedoms of one, because it's uncomfortable.

Again just talking points without details, riddle me this batman.

You want to get rid of the debt but you don't want to raise taxes however you can't pay off the debt because too deep cuts will make the economy fall off the cliff crushing GDP and raising the interest on the debt. How are you going to solve this?

[Themius]

Nope, the poor pay considerable less in taxes as compared to their income.

The wealthy are already paying more, just like the middle class are also paying more than the poor.

The whole "true tax rate" nonsense being pushed by Propublica is disingenuous.

The poor have a heavier burden.

[Machismo]

Again just talking points without details, riddle me this batman.

You want to get rid of the debt but you don't want to raise taxes however you can't pay off the debt because too deep cuts will make the economy fall off the cliff crushing GDP and raising the interest on the debt. How are you going to solve this?

This is off-topic, please either PM me, or put it in a different thread.

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The poor have a heavier burden.

By what metric? It's not in sheer dollar amount, nor is it in percentage of their income.

[minteK917]

Nice data, but reading it over, this gives people a false impression. First there is no wealth taxes, so linking your income taxes to the % of your wealth is not really a data to conclude anything about how much income tax they avoided. We could go on a discussion about taxing wealth, but thats another topic. Bezos in the example didnt pay 0.98% income tax. That 0.98% is a fake number that is not used to calculate taxes. He reported 4.22 billions incomes and was taxed 973 millions on it. That is 23% income tax paid. Buffet paid 19% income taxes, not 0.1%. Again i think using fake metric to try to solve real problems is not doing a service here. You also want to be careful about wealth taxes, i dont think your average citizen want or should be taxed on wealth. Billionaires probably should, but it depends where the moneys at. Because i dont think someone making 50k a year that saved some wealth wants to pay taxes on that shit, even if its super small.

You dont want to start your stuff with outright lies, does a disservice to your data and what cause you champion. Do we really need to make out fake metrics to point out that people winning 4.4 billions a year should probably not be a thing? Look they are evil 0.98% income tax paid with tax avoiding!!!

[Endus]

"They need to pay more" is a shit argument...

Why?

You literally never explain these statements. You declare them as if their truth is obvious, and it simply is not.

The issue is that you people will never be sated. No amount will be enough, because you'll just want to spend more, and then need to go take more to justify even more spending.

Who are "you people"?

Also, no, nobody here is proposing infinite spending. That's a straw man that you're using to deflect from the point.

[Machismo]

Why?

You literally never explain these statements. You declare them as if their truth is obvious, and it simply is not.



Who are "you people"?

Also, no, nobody here is proposing infinite spending. That's a straw man that you're using to deflect from the point.

He called my statement shit, so I returned the favor.

Take it up with him.

The "you people" are the people in this very thread, calling for exactly that. It's the people who have consistently spent more and more, while calling for others to pay more and more.

[Themius]

If we lived in Machismo world I suspect he would be like those antivax people who say “I was wrong gimme vaccine” in the end. Except he’d be on an Amazon bed waiting for some musk industry company to dismantle his body for experimentation because he was sold to them since he lived in Google corporate town that in their terms of services added that this was a possibility.

[Endus]

He called my statement shit, so I returned the favor.

Take it up with him.

No.

You made a claim, I'm expecting you to back that claim up. Deflecting like this just indicates you can't actually explain yourself.

The "you people" are the people in this very thread, calling for exactly that.

Literally nobody has called for that. Hence me asking who you meant, since it isn't anyone in this thread, actually.

[omerome]

Nope, the poor pay considerable less in taxes as compared to their income.

The wealthy are already paying more, just like the middle class are also paying more than the poor.

The whole "true tax rate" nonsense being pushed by Propublica is disingenuous.

It's not disingenuous simply because you don't like the situation that's going on today.

The poor don't have avenues like stocks and bonds to circumvent their federal income taxes through legal financial manipulation. They can't ask a bank to front them millions in loans, which in turn they use to make even more money. The poor can't hire lobbyist groups to speak on their behalf to congress(wo)men like the rich to do keep them richer. Or again, like the rich do, to continually give them unneeded tax breaks.

The poor are demanded to give the government a percentage of their income in which they are already close to or are already in financial trouble and they are supposed to be "grateful" to work at a job that pays them crappy wages. All while the CEO and stockholders get to discuss acquisitions and buyouts on their superyachts.

[Machismo]

No.

You made a claim, I'm expecting you to back that claim up. Deflecting like this just indicates you can't actually explain yourself.



Literally nobody has called for that. Hence me asking who you meant, since it isn't anyone in this thread, actually.

Why are you not expecting him to back his up? he made it first.

The wealthy need to pay more... period. "They pay more than average" is kind of a shit argument....

I provided the numbers to back up my claim, so good luck with that.

People have called for taking all the money of the wealthy, they have called for pure communism. They have called for violent communistic takeover, or the socialistic takeover of companies.

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It's not disingenuous simply because you don't like the situation that's going on today.

The poor don't have avenues like stocks and bonds to circumvent their federal income taxes through legal financial manipulation. They can't ask a bank to front them millions in loans, which in turn they use to make even more money. The poor can't hire lobbyist groups to speak on their behalf to congress(wo)men like the rich to do keep them richer. Or again, like the rich do, to continually give them unneeded tax breaks.

The poor are demanded to give them a % of their income in which they are already close to, or are already in financial trouble and they are supposed to be "grateful" to work at a job that pays them crappy wages. All while the CEO and stockholders get to discuss acquisitions and buyouts on their superyachts.

It is disingenuous, because they are trying to equate income to wealth.

I don't pay income tax on my 401k, or my collection of thimbles.

[Themius]

Why are you not expecting him to back his up? he made it first.



I provided the numbers to back up my claim, so good luck with that.

People have called for taking all the money of the wealthy, they have called for pure communism. They have called for violent communistic takeover, or the socialistic takeover of companies.

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It is disingenuous, because they are trying to equate income to wealth.

I don't pay income tax on my 401k, or my collection of thimbles.

Do things like "cost of living" and "disposable income" not exist in that little libertarian world of yours where bears run towns because how dare anyone regulate garbage?

[Ivanstone]

By what metric? It's not in sheer dollar amount, nor is it in percentage of their income.

The only metric that matters is the amount of money you have left in your pocket at the end of the month.

A person with no money is more burdened than someone who has $1000 at the end of the month.

A person with $1000 at the end of the month is more burdened than someone who is the sole owner of a large multi billion dollar corporation that generates hundreds of millions of dollar in annual revenue with a 20% profit margin and can go drag racing as a “hobby”.

[Endus]

Why are you not expecting him to back his up? he made it first.

You're deflecting. You made a claim. Either you can substantiate that claim with an actual argument, or you can't.

It is disingenuous, because they are trying to equate income to wealth.

I don't pay income tax on my 401k, or my collection of thimbles.

That doesn't make anything "disingenuous". Wealth taxes exist, separate from income taxes. Propublica didn't confuse the two things. They are, in fact, very clear that they're talking about wealth growth as compared to "income" as defined under tax law.

[Machismo]

Do things like "cost of living" and "disposable income" not exist in that little libertarian world of yours where bears run towns because how dare anyone regulate garbage?

This is your claim, you claim they carry a heavier burden, and I simply wanted to know by what metric.

[Themius]

The only metric that matters is the amount of money you have left in your pocket at the end of the month.

A person with no money is more burdened than someone who has $1000 at the end of the month.

A person with $1000 at the end of the month is more burdened than someone who is the sole owner of a large multi billion dollar corporation that generates hundreds of millions of dollar in annual revenue with a 20% profit margin and can go drag racing as a “hobby”.

Well you see... a person who makes 2k a month and pays 200 in taxes and lives in an area where cost of living is saying 2200 a month is less burdened than a person making 55,000,000 a month and is left with 38.5 million because well the latter pays higher taxes.....

[Huehuecoyotl]

Increasing their taxes, whether it be on the wealthy, or the poor, is an increase in their burden.

So out of interest, how does your philosophy reconcile the Scandanavian countries? Higher taxes, and those taxes used to provide societal benefits. As a result they are the happiest people on the entire planet.

Surely increasing their "burden" should make them unhappier, if your philosophy had an ounce of merit?

[Themius]

This is your claim, you claim they carry a heavier burden, and I simply wanted to know by what metric.

I guess reading has escaped you in this moment... part of the metric are the words in that are in quotations....