How would you allow cross-faction play with a satisfactory lore to justify it?

[david0925]

Guilds don't need to be completely politically aligned. You can keep your A/H faction but let people group together.

Heck, outside of very few raids like BoD and encounters like Gunship or the pvp encounter in ToC you don't even fight each other. Lorewise it makes less sense for A/H to kill each other than to work together since this is not the same Horde in WC1 and 2, but heck gotta give people their REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE PVP reasons, heh.

[Maxilian]

Well maybe have a minor faction that tries to be where they need them regardless of faction, and they normally do so by changing the form of their members to fit whatever they need to do. (Aka. Like those old Cavern of Time dungeons), but only minimally available, like with people in your friend list (Maybe) and some dungeons may have the option.

[Itisamuh]

I would simply abolish the factions entirely, and it would take very little effort to explain it. The factions would finally just realize they are actually no different, and thus there is no reason to be split into two arbitrary groups. In a game where the two factions are not only identical in ethics and actions, but also constantly band together to face bigger threats, they literally serve no purpose except as a pointless way to divide the player base, which at this point should be obvious is unhealthy for the game.

[geco]

As to the argument that Blizzard would make less money, I'm really not so sure. I'm certain there's lots of ex-Alliance players who had to migrate to Horde to raid or PvP but would like to be able to play as a human, NE, Draenei or whatever while not losing their friends and guilds. They'll fork over money to switch races for sure. Hell if I could have one or two of my existing characters switch to Worgen or Dwarf I'd likely do it if it meant I could still raid and M+ with my guild on that character rather than basically sacrificing them.

Blizzard's theme is not the "Conflict" itself.
The theme is two. One is to focus on something, which BFA does and the other is that Players on both sides blame the other side instead of Blizzard for bad things.

It was a win win so far to have factions. But BFA and SW have worked to destroy that. Except one that another Stubborn that remains out there. Most factions no longer see themselves as part of "something" and no longer see the other as the problem. But to Blizzard.

Break the 2 factions into 3 factions. 2 factions that hates each other and 1 faction that works together. Think of it as an extension of warmode. If you switch it on, you're on the "i hate the other side" faction, and switched off, you work with everyone against the new threat to Azeroth. Just give rep to grind with all sides, so people arent encouraged to switch side every day, but also allow them to switch side whenever they want, they just don't get some exalted bonuses.
Just pick an important character from each faction that really hates the other side and make them the new factions leader. The carebear faction could be lead by Jaina&Thrall.

It would be strange how those two sides of the Alliance would be.
Tyrande would be in those who do not want peace and Malfurion if? or directly now with Elune we really completely forgot about the subject.

Or for example the most hated pj of the Alliance by the Horde would be .. Jaina. The other Alliance PCs never hurt us. Except self defense.

Even that concept was ruined.

[VladlTutushkin]

I mean... we recently got a book that explained the Night Elves have had their territory barred to Rexxar and Rokhan(?) and a 20+ thread which people largely agree on why Night Elves are super pissed at the Horde and don't want them there.
Honestly I have been around since WC3 and the Factions mistrusting each other doesn't sound too farfetched to me even though we have time and time again united only for it to immediately collapse and another Horde/Alliance faction war starting again.

A lot of Horde players were justifiably pissed off their faction was once again depicted as evil and then forced to sit through another lecture while Alliance got the privilaged position of being the victims in another Horde identity crisis story.

So if we want Horde players and Alliance players grouping up together to do quests, raids, dungeons and what else have you then surely there has to be something that kind of explains why NEs are totally cool in allowing Orc Hunter Player in their questing hub but not Rexxar.

“Privileged position of being a victim” do you even realise how asinine that sounds?

Not to mention that its Alliance we talking about, they are made victim every second expansion.

- - - Updated - - -

Why does everyone simp so hard for cross faction play?

Race and faction is the most meaningful choice a player can make for their character.

As for lore, do you think just because Anduin is buddies with everone that humans running iins and bakeries who have lost family and freinds in war want orcs and trolls walking around their streets? How many night elves do you think want to go out for a nice meal in durotar surrounded by undead and orcs?

Well, considering the “choosing renewal” even Tyrande forgave you.

What more do you want? All you did amounted for nothing. Imagine that - committing a genocide and it dosent even matter.

[Super Dickmann]

Cross-faction is in general a mistake and the push towards homogenization and 'ending the cycle', 'renewal' or the buzz phrase of the expansion has always been ass. Conflict is the franchise.

However if you were to do it the way to do so would not be to unite the factions but to collapse them and have every race and its component elements stand on their own. In theory this'd serve in-story aims by allowing shifting allegiances whereas gameplay-wise it'd allow more to team up. In practice it'd turn the story into even more of the Super Friends vs. Space Ghosts with no chance to go back and without even a figleaf of a reason to design separate content all of it would be uniform.

[MrLachyG]

That doesn't answer the question of how we are supposed to show this factionless game but all the NPCs are not trying to kill the other side's players or NPCs on sight.
Mercenary or not that doesnt solve the hostility from multiple faction wars that were never properly resolved.

the factions are still there but we are mercs. so we fight for whoever pays us. that would be the lore reason anyway. I mean 95% of the raids have us fighting some existential threat anyway, the only raid where faction mattered was Siege of Orgrimmar (a tiny bit) and Battle for Dazar'alor (a lot). Does it really make sense for the Alliance and Horde to ignore C'Thun/Ragnaros/Blackhand/Kil'jaeden and focus on killing each other? no, not really.

[Sanguinerd]

They had the perfect chance to do this at the end of Legion where we functioned as class leaders and commanded races from each faction without any issue.. But instead of telling Sylvanas to fuck off they forced many of the Horde champions to abandon their progress and fight some petty war.

[Geckoo]

You just need to put the player as someone that exists above the factions. Legion already did that, we become the leading figure of our own order with factions having no influence on it and having a mix of different races and even some important named NPC's from both factions.

By doing that you allow the players to have their own space to play together in any way they want despite their faction choice, but at the same time factions are still a thing and that choice will still be important whenever the game requires the player to be a good horde/alliance soldier, both for PvE & PvP situations.

[VinceVega]

Factions don't work anymore. And don't make sense. Whole races get pulled into wars they don't want.

Every race should be its own nation. But not every member of the race is also member of that nation.

Make some kind of UN where the leader can meet etc.

Nations can declare war onto each other outside of the whole aliiance horde restrictions. The other nations only intervene if the war gets to big or someone commits heinous crimes. (genocide, Darnassus would be somthing like it)
Nations also can make alliances with each other.

So basically like real countries. Everyone can travel everywhere. Racism will still exist. So there will probably never be a undead in a nightelve capitol or vice versa.

But you could see bloodelves, tauren, draenei, gnomes basically everywhere.
Pandaren can reunite but don't have to.

We are adventurers without huge ties to anyone like members of the military would be.

There could be special quests you can only get as a member of a race.

Lorewise it basically already is/should be this way

[VladlTutushkin]

Cross-faction is in general a mistake and the push towards homogenization and 'ending the cycle', 'renewal' or the buzz phrase of the expansion has always been ass. Conflict is the franchise.

However if you were to do it the way to do so would not be to unite the factions but to collapse them and have every race and its component elements stand on their own. In theory this'd serve in-story aims by allowing shifting allegiances whereas gameplay-wise it'd allow more to team up. In practice it'd turn the story into even more of the Super Friends vs. Space Ghosts with no chance to go back and without even a figleaf of a reason to design separate content all of it would be uniform.

Its already gone beyond the point of reason.

As i said - Blizz sacrificed too much already, if they dont commit all that bullshit will be for nothing.

If they just have to excuse genocide, mutilate night elves , insult their fans, whitewash Sylvanas, make Alliance a bunch of treacherous imbeciles who throw their allies to the wolves in the name of peace…

They can at the very least give us that peace and be fucken done with it because sure as shit next war will not make things any better. It just CANT anymore. Plot CANNOT be fixed, they can only go along with it.

[Super Dickmann]

Its already gone beyond the point of reason.

As i said - Blizz sacrificed too much already, if they dont commit all that bullshit will be for nothing.

If they just have to excuse genocide, mutilate night elves , insult their fans, whitewash Sylvanas, make Alliance a bunch of treacherous imbeciles who throw their allies to the wolves in the name of peace…

They can at the very least give us that peace and be fucken done with it because sure as shit next war will not make things any better. It just CANT anymore. Plot CANNOT be fixed, they can only go along with it.

That's what I thought back in BFA - that all of this was leading in to Blizzard ditching the factions and the entire tortured conga line was there to get us to that point for gameplay purposes. Gameplay purposes that are arguable, but at least reasonable given the faction imbalance. Instead it was just the writers being given way too much money and leeway to tell a crap story. In this case, I do see the chance still that they could do it after Shadowlands because the company is in a rut and this is the kind of big move that would get them attention and also leave them with an easier workload going forward.

[VladlTutushkin]

That's what I thought back in BFA - that all of this was leading in to Blizzard ditching the factions and the entire tortured conga line was there to get us to that point for gameplay purposes. Gameplay purposes that are arguable, but at least reasonable given the faction imbalance. Instead it was just the writers being given way too much money and leeway to tell a crap story. In this case, I do see the chance still that they could do it after Shadowlands because the company is in a rut and this is the kind of big move that would get them attention and also leave them with an easier workload going forward.

That would also at least show that all their crap was not for nothing. I mean, imagine with how much of a pile of shit they made nelf fans swallow with the whole “renewal”.

They essentially carving players soul, so to say, to shove the message that no price is too high for “peace” and even if you have to literally sacrifice your whole race for it it is still a “noble goal” and you should just agree with it and go “rebuild”.

If they do ALL THAT and then make another war? That will not be just bad, not simply insulting, it will be some kind of new level of insult i dont have a right word to describe.

[Newname1234567890]

Simple. Same way the Axis and (Western) Allies are now all best of friends, circumstances change

Kill sylvannas for her crimes and scapegoat her for the rest of the horde.

Horde and Alliance sign a peace treaty. Make a cross faction Peacekeepering super group (like destiny's edge from GW2 or the Scions form Ff14) which all player character join because we're the best.

Legion back again who you going to call?

"cross-faction avengers"

Done.

Extremist factions from both sides justify PvP and as for why orcs aren't killed on sight, easy, that's not just ANY orc that's "Punetowner69" slayer of the Lich King and hero of the Broken world!

[Arikara]

Just listen to the ending cutscene of WCIII. The foundation for cooperation was set here. Its extension has been completely forced, inorganic and artificial since.

Yes, thank you. Like I've been saying for years, the faction conflict should have ended at Twilight of the Gods.

The only reason it hasn't is because the devs would rather artificially extend it by continuously writing nonsensical conflicts and warcrimes and manipulating the playerbase into hating each other. And look at what an excellent job they've done of that!

[Super Dickmann]

That would also at least show that all their crap was not for nothing. I mean, imagine with how much of a pile of shit they made nelf fans swallow with the whole “renewal”.

They essentially carving players soul, so to say, to shove the message that no price is too high for “peace” and even if you have to literally sacrifice your whole race for it it is still a “noble goal” and you should just agree with it and go “rebuild”.

If they do ALL THAT and then make another war? That will not be just bad, not simply insulting, it will be some kind of new level of insult i dont have a right word to describe.

The lesson is worthless by itself but as a vehicle to create the Unifaction and then as that as a means to enable cross-faction play there's some degree of reason to it. Without it's just destructive because writers really wanted to teach you how killing people is wrong, forgetting that the entire game rotates around that exclusively.

A faction collapse would have the same gameplay result, would let the current hacks still crow on about love and peace and if someone with an eye for what the franchise is about takes the wheel they'll also have more toys to play with because war - which is the sole purpose of the game - is done without factions they can swap around allegiances and play with more meaningful consequences.

[VladlTutushkin]

The lesson is worthless by itself but as a vehicle to create the Unifaction and then as that as a means to enable cross-faction play there's some degree of reason to it. Without it's just destructive because writers really wanted to teach you how killing people is wrong, forgetting that the entire game rotates around that exclusively.

A faction collapse would have the same gameplay result, would let the current hacks still crow on about love and peace and if someone with an eye for what the franchise is about takes the wheel they'll also have more toys to play with because war - which is the sole purpose of the game - is done without factions they can swap around allegiances and play with more meaningful consequences.

Alliance had one too many meaningful consequences , at least thats how it looks.

Horde meanwhile had meaningful concessions done for them by Alliance which kinda seems counter productive… rewarding war with resources and land? Dosent that encourage more war? Nah, mad talk, amiright?

Anyway, with how much lore they already destroyed and ruined Blizz better fucken commit to Unifaction or whatever the fuck they will call it because i am afraid that next war Alliance might just now show up and they will have to crunch numbers some more and lie as to where half of the playerbase have gone.

[draugril]

Yeah, that's the most ironic aspect of the strict faction lines - it actually prevents you from telling faction-based stories with actual stakes and consequences.

[Romanthony]

I mean we have teamed up many times it does seem silly, and since they havent added a new battleground for while, they could just make battlegrounds and pvp there own separate thing outside of the "cooperation" call it wargames to keep our skills sharp

[Super Dickmann]

Alliance had one too many meaningful consequences , at least thats how it looks.

Horde meanwhile had meaningful concessions done for them by Alliance which kinda seems counter productive… rewarding war with resources and land? Dosent that encourage more war? Nah, mad talk, amiright?

Anyway, with how much lore they already destroyed and ruined Blizz better fucken commit to Unifaction or whatever the fuck they will call it because i am afraid that next war Alliance might just now show up and they will have to crunch numbers some more and lie as to where half of the playerbase have gone.

The Horde has lost every character and unique trait it has to be turned into a worthless blob with no differentiating circumstances from its opposite number except art style. And not even that when it comes to our elf colonies and nu-undead. But really, the fact that the factions as a whole are rigid is highly limiting to the plot in general as groups can't really switch sides. That's why the best case scenario post-faction breakdown is to have races be able to swap sides or align with others on a case by case basis with different parts of that race finding different allies. In reality it'll just be what we have now in terms of the Superfriends but with a theoretically larger PvE playerbase.