Loot drops from SoD

[Othraerir]

great vault hasn't been any help either, killed heroic sylvanas with a weapon from last tier

[Elbob]

Let's let loot be loot!

...except that with low drop rates that makes RNG swings more brutal than ever. But hey, GREAT VAULT amirite?!

I have no idea what your point is, bad rng on drops has existed for all of wows history. For every horrific tale of not having some SoD drop yep you can find some one from the past that went whole tiers without something they needed.

[Stabbyfists]

Why not bring back Guild Master Loot but with a Caveat.

Personal Loot will still drop more gear per 5 people in your group.
Guild Master Loot will drop 1 piece of gear per 10 people in your group.

This gives guilds a semblance of control over loot drops with the compensation they know its going to be less loot per person. Yes it'll bring back "Split Runs" for the tip top guilds but they should not be designing things AROUND .5% of the .5%

[Biomega]

I have no idea what your point is, bad rng on drops has existed for all of wows history. For every horrific tale of not having some SoD drop yep you can find some one from the past that went whole tiers without something they needed.

Of course RNG always existed, but the lower your loot amount the more RNG swings matter.

If you roll a die 100 times you'll get pretty close to the average. If you roll it once, you can be WILDLY off.

In addition, all loot is not created equal - some pieces like weapons, trinkets, domination sockets etc. are disproportionately more powerful than just some random armor piece; not to mention higher ilvl loot from final bosses. That's even MORE RNG on top of things.

[Relapses]

Let's let loot be loot!

...except that with low drop rates that makes RNG swings more brutal than ever. But hey, GREAT VAULT amirite?!

If you want to pretend that the current system is worse than in Classic where 2 items would drop for 40 people, go ahead. It isn't. But you're free to pretend it was so you can get meaningless platitudes from people who hate everything Blizzard does or doesn't do.

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Why not bring back Guild Master Loot but with a Caveat.

Personal Loot will still drop more gear per 5 people in your group.
Guild Master Loot will drop 1 piece of gear per 10 people in your group.

This gives guilds a semblance of control over loot drops with the compensation they know its going to be less loot per person. Yes it'll bring back "Split Runs" for the tip top guilds but they should not be designing things AROUND .5% of the .5%

Man, I'm sure the top guilds are salivating at the idea of having to do literally 2x the split runs for the same benefit. Great idea!

[Elbob]

Of course RNG always existed, but the lower your loot amount the more RNG swings matter.

If you roll a die 100 times you'll get pretty close to the average. If you roll it once, you can be WILDLY off.

In addition, all loot is not created equal - some pieces like weapons, trinkets, domination sockets etc. are disproportionately more powerful than just some random armor piece; not to mention higher ilvl loot from final bosses. That's even MORE RNG on top of things.

I understand how rng works but bosses drop about the same number of drops per raider now as they did pre-titanforging. The system now is easier to work in your favor then the past. Not only can you prime your own BLP but you can be in raids stacked with your class/spec/armor type to help with raid drops. Obviously all loot is not created equally, I know how it feels to not get loot. I ended WOTLK without my Heroic Solace from Togc despite running it every week since the first kill through the end of the expac.

Run with consistent people and the current system will gear you faster as a raid vs the old system.

[Eapoe]

If you want to pretend that the current system is worse than in Classic where 2 items would drop for 40 people, go ahead. It isn't. But you're free to pretend it was so you can get meaningless platitudes from people who hate everything Blizzard does or doesn't do.

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Man, I'm sure the top guilds are salivating at the idea of having to do literally 2x the split runs for the same benefit. Great idea!

I tend to agree with a lot of what you type out, but not this last one. That’s something they choose to do to be the best and have an edge over other people. It’s also not like they stopped doing multiple runs, they just got more creative about it. Remember in Legion when they had multiple of the same class just to use the character that got the best RNG lego drop?
Master Loot, in my opinion, should come back. It doesn’t feel good for a bad piece of loot to drop for me that I can’t trade to someone who could use it more. Even if not completely done like it used to be, I’d like for it to be able to be implemented in a complete guild run if the guild chooses to enable it.

[Relapses]

I tend to agree with a lot of what you type out, but not this last one. That’s something they choose to do to be the best and have an edge over other people. It’s also not like they stopped doing multiple runs, they just got more creative about it. Remember in Legion when they had multiple of the same class just to use the character that got the best RNG lego drop?
Master Loot, in my opinion, should come back. It doesn’t feel good for a bad piece of loot to drop for me that I can’t trade to someone who could use it more. Even if not completely done like it used to be, I’d like for it to be able to be implemented in a complete guild run if the guild chooses to enable it.

I agree with you on ML. My comment was more directed at the "ML but with half the gear" suggestion that guy made.

[Temp name]

Why not bring back Guild Master Loot but with a Caveat.

Personal Loot will still drop more gear per 5 people in your group.
Guild Master Loot will drop 1 piece of gear per 10 people in your group.

This gives guilds a semblance of control over loot drops with the compensation they know its going to be less loot per person. Yes it'll bring back "Split Runs" for the tip top guilds but they should not be designing things AROUND .5% of the .5%

They're already doing split runs, and that wouldn't change.. Hell, literally NO ONE would run master loot with the change you proposed.
And besides, the personal loot change was for the 90% of people who only do normal/heroic, so those guilds won't have the loot drama they had before.

[Relapses]

They're already doing split runs, and that wouldn't change.. Hell, literally NO ONE would run master loot with the change you proposed.
And besides, the personal loot change was for the 90% of people who only do normal/heroic, so those guilds won't have the loot drama they had before.

The drama's still there, it's just less enforceable. Plenty of guilds still require trials to trade gear.

[Biomega]

If you want to pretend that the current system is worse than in Classic where 2 items would drop for 40 people, go ahead. It isn't. But you're free to pretend it was so you can get meaningless platitudes from people who hate everything Blizzard does or doesn't do.

Sorry, I'm missing something here. When did Classic come into this? When did criticizing a current system become invalidated by the fact that some older system was EVEN WORSE?

[Relapses]

Sorry, I'm missing something here. When did Classic come into this? When did criticizing a current system become invalidated by the fact that some older system was EVEN WORSE?

The point is that there has never been a loot system that has satisfied 100% of the playerbase. There will always be fringe RNG cases and people like you who will bitch about said RNG like it's Blizzard's fault you didn't get mailed a full Mythic BiS raid set because you successfully typed in your username and password.

[Biomega]

The point is that there has never been a loot system that has satisfied 100% of the playerbase.

Also not getting how this invalidates criticism. Just because something isn't PERFECT doesn't mean it couldn't be BETTER.

It's cool if you like the current system. I don't. And there's a lot of people who also don't, even if their ideas about what else to do might be different.

The real problem is people reducing everything to simple logical fallacies, because all that does is breed complacency and ignorance.

[Relapses]

Also not getting how this invalidates criticism. Just because something isn't PERFECT doesn't mean it couldn't be BETTER.

It's cool if you like the current system. I don't. And there's a lot of people who also don't, even if their ideas about what else to do might be different.

The real problem is people reducing everything to simple logical fallacies, because all that does is breed complacency and ignorance.

Complacency and ignorance of what, exactly, my dude? The fact that RNG is, in fact, still RNG? Thanks for enlightening us, I guess.

[Biomega]

Complacency and ignorance of what, exactly, my dude? The fact that RNG is, in fact, still RNG? Thanks for enlightening us, I guess.

The fact that a system can be criticized without it immediately becoming or implying the opposite extreme. Or any extreme, really.

Let's not forget here, "my dude", who it was that jumped immediately to "oh so you're saying classic's 2 items per 40 people was better?".

[Relapses]

The fact that a system can be criticized without it immediately becoming or implying the opposite extreme. Or any extreme, really.

Let's not forget here, "my dude", who it was that jumped immediately to "oh so you're saying classic's 2 items per 40 people was better?".

The Great Vault is a far better deterministic system for gearing than anything they've added in the past so please excuse me for using an extreme example to prove how pointless your criticism of it is.

Just be more transparent with your criticism. You're not upset that GV exists. You're upset Blizzard has the audacity to require players to engage with the video game to take advantage of the benefits it provides. I'm sorry you don't get Mythic Sylvanas gear from World Quests. But if you complain loud enough here I'm sure you can find a few people equally miffed they can't have the best gear in the game for no effort.

[Biomega]

I'm sorry you don't get Mythic Sylvanas gear from World Quests.

I mean, QED, really.

[Relapses]

I mean, QED, really.

Hey dude, that's the logical conclusion for every single "GV is bad, RNG is still RNG," argument that's ever existed. Care to share with the class how you'd change the way loot works in this game that doesn't involve either bringing back WF/TFing or bonus rolls?

[Doffen]

I understand how rng works but bosses drop about the same number of drops per raider now as they did pre-titanforging. The system now is easier to work in your favor then the past. Not only can you prime your own BLP but you can be in raids stacked with your class/spec/armor type to help with raid drops. Obviously all loot is not created equally, I know how it feels to not get loot. I ended WOTLK without my Heroic Solace from Togc despite running it every week since the first kill through the end of the expac.

Run with consistent people and the current system will gear you faster as a raid vs the old system.

I think with the last two expansions, especially BfA, people just forgot how slow it was to gear up. In SL we have m+ and the GV to help, which was something we didnt have before Legion.

So as you say, gearing up now is just faster and more steady than last time we had this kind of loot system. I never got DBW in WotlK, never got MoB in TBC. Had a blue weapon for 5 months in TBC and so on, but I got DST and boy how many did not get it through the entire expansion. Rng is rng. I just think people got to used of the loot showering in recent expansions that the feeling of losing out on a spesific item they want is just hard to swallow.

Not getting the trinket you really want is really okay. That is and should be part of a mmo game.

[korijenkins]

Sounds like 2004 to me.

Every year of raiding ever.

Spineless GMs rewarding the incompetents who caused 90% of the wipes, or GMs giving their friends priority over the others. WoW raids can be incredibly unpleasant at times, and I don't think it's elitist to want people to perform or be removed. Time is a valuable commodity, the one thing you cannot ever get more of.