Why the negative response to all the positive changes in 9.1.5

[Relapses]

Until they sell power I'm not going to be annoyed with them selling power and diminishing the player experience like wow currently is...

...that $25 boost runs a pretty thin line of selling power. I'd say more so than WoW because of the way FFXIV works (imo) but I know some FFXIV superfan will quote me with an "aktschually" if I do so I'll leave it there.

[Empower]

...that $25 boost runs a pretty thin line of selling power. I'd say more so than WoW because of the way FFXIV works (imo) but I know some FFXIV superfan will quote me with an "aktschually" if I do so I'll leave it there.

I don't get your point as grasping as you are... are you trying to have me admit ff14 isn't perfect? I won't ever claim it is and as much as I enjoy it unless the next expansion offers difficulty beyond ultimate I won't ever be more then a tourist in the game.

That said wow supporting pay to win so heavily isn't something I can just happily accept. I've been watching a boosting server I have full access to barring pvp in terms of sale offers. Its rather depressing... during the first of the month they average over 1500 buyers for mythic carries alone with raids being harder to track due to the break down of how many carries per run. The week after pay day it slows down to about 1000 before going up slightly and settling till the first of next month.

I don't care about a level boost in a mmo. Sure you can spin that as selfish if you want but world content holds little interest to me compared to instanced content. What I do care about is the games chat channels and group tools having more spam then the worst porn sites to the point it impacts gameplay.

[Kuntantee]

Which, even though I'm quite down on WoW right now, is wholly disappointing. I've gotten into Apex Legends recently and started going to the subreddit to learn things about the game and hopefully enjoy some interesting conversation about the game in general, and for the last few weeks it had been pretty much nothing other than "Seer OP! Game ruined!". Today it's "tap-strafing removed! Game ruined!". I think the SWTOR reddit is one of the few that's not constant bitching and moaning.

I'm with the people that see these changes for the cynical ploy they are, but that said they are still good changes. Not enough to make me play again, but I'm happy for those that continue to play. And I'm happy for all the other MMOs out there now that Blizzard has severely stumbled these last few years (this last year especially), getting more attention and allowing innovation to resume in the MMO genre now that it's no longer "solved".

They did what they have been doing in past 5 years (or in past 2 expansions) and you're suddenly happy? Dude.....They were going to do this anyway.

Do you feel happy when you flush your toilet and the water flushes?

[kamuimac]

I am happy with 9.1.5 changes.

I just need them now rather than later !

you gotta wait exackly 1 week after all hit renown 80

enjoy 2 more months without 9.1.5

[Ange]

The only reason people are having negative opinions about 9.1.5 is because Blizzard has been doing this bullshit move since Legion. let me explain it:
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Legion:
New legendary system introduced.
player feedback: too RNG. We need little control to target specific ones.
Blizzard: Sorry You are wrong.
1 year later:
Blizzard: We were wrong, u were right. Now U can target Legendaries. > System is good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BFA:
Blizzard: Hey guess what! we are scrapping a perfectly good system (Legendaries) and we are introducing azerite gear new system.
players feedback: What? Why? Alright. Azerite gear is bad. U can't trade it, perks are too imbalanced, system is unfun.
Blizzard: Trust me dude! it's good.
1 year later:
Blizzard: We were wrong, Azerite gear was bad because we didn't listen to your feedback.
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Shadowland:
Blizzard: Here is conduit and covenant systems
Player feedback: Why cut 75% of content from players by limiting covenant choices?
Blizzard: Woot? because of lore! We don't want you jumping between covenants cause everyone will be kyrian!
1 year later:
Blizzard: Ok guys u were right. We learned our lesson. U were right and we were wrong. Now u can experience all covenants on your main and conduit energy is scrapped.
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Not to mention the fact that since Legion, Blizzard had 0 respect for player time. In order to enjoy content. You were locked behind systems that require 100s of hours to grind and months of time gating.

This is why people are pissed.

This is why forums really suck for WoW. People like you mention LEGION like its introduced WEEKLY CHORES as a PUNISHMENT and not to bring back casual players who had nothing to do in WoD and demanded a change because the servers were empty and only the small and tiny raiding community was actively playing the game.

The changes in LEGION worked and lots of casual players had again something to enjoy while playing regularly.

To turn the solution of dead/WoD servers - weekly chores, random gearing progression that happens outside of raiding (RAID-OR-DIE) was the whole point of LEGION and a clear success.

I get that not everyone did play before LEGION as MMO-C seems to attract a lot of new players to the forums, but at least look it up why some changes were made and why the game is still using them.

It would be best, if people discussed the current game they at least know and not magically turn the past expansions into EVIL DEV DECISION LAND, because changes had good reasons behind them and made the game more enjoyable to more people.

[Thundering]

Pretty much what everyone has said. They're good changes, but they're coming six months too late. If we have to wait an entire year post-launch for beta feedback to be addressed and implemented, it only showcases a poor state of the game and its devs.

they are 12 months late they should have been in the release.....the feedback was gigen early beta but blizzard dident care to fix it untill people started quiting the game.

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This is why forums really suck for WoW. People like you mention LEGION like its introduced WEEKLY CHORES as a PUNISHMENT and not to bring back casual players who had nothing to do in WoD and demanded a change because the servers were empty and only the small and tiny raiding community was actively playing the game.

The changes in LEGION worked and lots of casual players had again something to enjoy while playing regularly.

To turn the solution of dead/WoD servers - weekly chores, random gearing progression that happens outside of raiding (RAID-OR-DIE) was the whole point of LEGION and a clear success.

I get that not everyone did play before LEGION as MMO-C seems to attract a lot of new players to the forums, but at least look it up why some changes were made and why the game is still using them.

It would be best, if people discussed the current game they at least know and not magically turn the past expansions into EVIL DEV DECISION LAND, because changes had good reasons behind them and made the game more enjoyable to more people.

He is right though.
also the devs have shown a huge dislike for their customers........

[potis]

This is why forums really suck for WoW. People like you mention LEGION like its introduced WEEKLY CHORES as a PUNISHMENT and not to bring back casual players who had nothing to do in WoD and demanded a change because the servers were empty and only the small and tiny raiding community was actively playing the game.

The changes in LEGION worked and lots of casual players had again something to enjoy while playing regularly.

To turn the solution of dead/WoD servers - weekly chores, random gearing progression that happens outside of raiding (RAID-OR-DIE) was the whole point of LEGION and a clear success.

I get that not everyone did play before LEGION as MMO-C seems to attract a lot of new players to the forums, but at least look it up why some changes were made and why the game is still using them.

It would be best, if people discussed the current game they at least know and not magically turn the past expansions into EVIL DEV DECISION LAND, because changes had good reasons behind them and made the game more enjoyable to more people.

It didnt introduce weekly anything, it introduced daily grinding which was repulsive, it just had 1 storyline, camouflaged into 4 questlines, spread into the different classes, which somehow that means "content".

Because apparently leveling all classes and playing the questlines with 20 similar quests and 5 different ones is "Peak WoW expansion", yes the casual single player loved it because he doesnt even understand the difference, since it took him 200 played hours spread over a year.

All the last 3 expansions are literaly copy/paste in terms of things to do, it just depends how bad and slow you are at doing it, Legion had 1 hour of time gated quests per week, BFA did the same, Shadowlands has the same, the only difference? I dont have to do pointless disgusting WQs in Shadowlands to stay caught up, i can be the raid logger i want to be and still enjoy the game.

The game has the problem that they kept the Legion formula and it doesnt work anymore, and they failed to listen/evolve it properly because they are afraid to change the game because the players are simply not good enough, they removed WQs and AP farming, they had Choreghast, which the average player cant do the top difficulty, so its "Bad content", since it was shown again and again , people do not like trying to get better, so it backfired among other failures.

But even the casuals can figure it out "ITS THE SAME DAMN THING" when its 5 years in a row of the same things.

[Tarba]

Everyone is complaining its some desperate attempt to grab players back that should have been in game from the start. People still flaming blizz and the new systems coming in 9.1.5.

New management is taking over and immediately making positive changes, why is this a bad thing? This is a promising thing for the future.
I've played more heavily than I would like to admit since TBC and this already was a more alt friendly/new player than other expansions (even more so than Legion and BfA were which seem to be the most similar comparisons to modern wow). Now I do admit I mainly M+ and can gear a toon to 230+ in about a week and already have 4 alts key logging, but as someone that mainly stays off the toxic forums and just enjoys the game I don't see much validation in the complaints besides, possibly, entering pvp as a new/alt player. Is this just an echo chamber for blizz bashing now?

Are you new to the game? I mean the pattern : make something stupid, don't listen to feedback, fix it many months later while saying "we heard you come back with that new patch which barely fix the problems. We will add some new problems later", tend to piss of people.
And it does not piss of people because they take time to listen to feedback. It's because it's in their agenda from the start.

[Xath]

Nah dude, you see, because {random internet person} cannot fathom somebody liking a thing they don't, they have to blame somebody for it. And because raiders, you know, actually play the game...they're clearly the reason everything sucks.

Seriously most top end raiders I know got hard for about a month total when new content releases then are doing to raid logging outside of people like THD obviously who will probably grind islands again as soon as they are back.

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There's also the fact that this has been happening for quite a while. If we want to be nice, we can say "since Legion" - sure, they have been ignoring feedback for far longer than (especially on WoW EU forums, which were completely neglected by devs since the very beginning), but it has become incredibly blatant in the last few years.

What's funny is that Shadowlands alpha/beta didn't seem that bad in the beginning. Yeah, sure, covenants were a terrible idea, but it did seem like they were listening to some feedback about other things. Unfortunately, this has stopped rather quickly, their stance on ripcord remained unchanged and we got the product that was, once again, much inferior to what could have been.

I suppose that one "good" thing about this is that we're getting the changes we wanted in 9.1.5 instead of 9.3 or something. On the other hand, with first major patch being delayed and no one knowing if were even getting 9.3, this might not actually be all that "early". Plus the blue post is still defending their initial approach to covenants, so... yeah. They still think they had a great idea - it's just that players have been whining too much to appreciate it. Makes me almost certain they will repeat the same mistakes in next expansion.

Yeah 9.1.5 is definitely progress but I'm waiting for the new horrible system in 9.2

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FWIW 100% of people in-game I've talked to are super excited and happy about 9.1.5. 100% of people out of the game are bitter and angry people and are mad about the changes.

I still play I'm happy about the change. I am annoyed that it took a year post live to happen when we told them during alpha it was a bad idea.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Every playerbase shits on their 'own game'.

Browse any established or extremely popular game subreddit\forums\boards, like for League of Legends, WoW or Path of Exile, and its just a steaming pile of whining and complaining about the game, the incompetent developers, the bad changes, etc, PoE\WOW in particular nowadays. It's the nature of the beast, and it just gets extremely cynical the longer the game lasts (or they play it).

This shouldn't be surprising?

As for the topic, absolutely stoked for 9.1.5!

There are degrees to this, and while the WoW playerbase is absolutely shitting all over WoW, and the devs are shitting on the players, over on FF social media and official forums, it's mostly peaceful. People want certain changes, but for the most part everyone is praising their experience, and they enjoy the game enough that the things they don't like don't make them raging mad.

As far as the topic...

Blizzard was telling the players for the last year that they couldn't implement these changes coming in 9.1.5. When I and others say Blizzard should have listened to feedback, the response we get is "Blizzard doesn't have to listen to you" and yet, THEY'RE LISTENING NOW. After losing over half their player base. Perhaps they should have listened sooner. "Now is the perfect time to implement these changes!" And why is that? In BFA it was 8.2.5, why is it so soon in BadoShadowlands? We all know the answer.

QUICKLY, START TALKING ABOUT THE FF CASH SHOP. That'll make us feel better about everyone jumping ship!

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I think you should stick to minding your own gameplay and let others enjoy theirs as they please.

This is a discussion forum, where people discuss their view on things. By coming here, you are actively engaging in a conversation with another person.

And I really want to drive this point home, since so many posters just give "Mind your own business" responses while they continue to argue with the same person.

You are engaging in a conversation.

And yet so many people don't converse, they PREACH. They pretend they are some kind of priest of the faith of WoW and what they say is true, and they are preaching the truth to all the plebs down below them. If you don't want to listen, and if the devs don't want to listen to players, you can enjoy playing with nobody. "Mind your own gameplay" "Stop whining and speak with your wallet". People are doing just that. And quitting. This is a product of the response to criticism of the game being "Shut the fuck up and mind your own business". People are taking their gameplay elsewhere, and their money.

[Gaidax]

This is why forums really suck for WoW. People like you mention LEGION like its introduced WEEKLY CHORES as a PUNISHMENT and not to bring back casual players who had nothing to do in WoD and demanded a change because the servers were empty and only the small and tiny raiding community was actively playing the game.

The changes in LEGION worked and lots of casual players had again something to enjoy while playing regularly.

To turn the solution of dead/WoD servers - weekly chores, random gearing progression that happens outside of raiding (RAID-OR-DIE) was the whole point of LEGION and a clear success.

I get that not everyone did play before LEGION as MMO-C seems to attract a lot of new players to the forums, but at least look it up why some changes were made and why the game is still using them.

It would be best, if people discussed the current game they at least know and not magically turn the past expansions into EVIL DEV DECISION LAND, because changes had good reasons behind them and made the game more enjoyable to more people.

A lot of Legion stuff was good or at least acceptable because it was new and expansion itself had great theme and content. Like Suramar alone is over and above just about anything Shadowlands hae and story was great overall as well as level of effort with new class, class campaigns, artifacts and all the new ideas.

Yes running 500 x Maw of Souls sucked balls and RNG legiondaires were a really bad idea, but the game made up for it a lot with just about everything else.

Fast forward we have Shadowlands with just a fraction of what Legion had content and awesomesauce-wise. Yes they use tweaked Legion systems, but the rough edges and imperfections of these systems are laid bare because:

A. We already seen these same fuckups 2 times.
B. There is no awesome content of Legion to make up for that.

Does not take a genius to see why people are upset. We got some of Legion fuckups without getting Legion level content. That's some bad shit.

[sam86]

Just making clear that you are wrong about that. Litereally my whole "WoW Bubble" loved the AP system because it gave all activities in the game meaning. There was always something to do and it felt rewarding - it was great. Same went for the original legendary system.
As soon as one of us had his legendary and reached the AP cap, the game became extremely boring and one after the other stopped playing.

then if u did support it, there was no evidence of it
i was following Legion beta closely, heck i loved legion so much that i subbed to wow as soon i saw its trailer, and it was still more than 6 months to legion -.- (yes i idiotically subbed to WoD for 6 months in my enthusiasm)
so if u did like AP grind and saw no wrong in it, u either only one who said so, or u didn't even bother to post about it, because all beta reviews were AP grind isn't good, how bad it was is varying, but no one claimed it was good, and blizz only def was wait for class research and it will get better (and it didn't)

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The people who design skins are not the people who design systems

yes i know but i talk why (deserved) negative feedback about 9.1.5 changes which are actually cool

[rrayy]

And it's happened so many times you honestly think you're in the majority? Classic is outperforming Retail at this point, it's time to admit that "I Like Timegating" is the minority.

Prove it. Show me a link that shows more people are playing classic than retail. There aren't any.

Making up facts and thenb claiming you are right doesn't make it so. And for the record, I am in the "don't care one way or the other" group and that absolutely is the majority.

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Until they sell power I'm not going to be annoyed with them selling power and diminishing the player experience like wow currently is...

Wow is selling power? Where. All I see there is mounts, cosmetics and pets. I don't see a single piece of gear or anything related to power or even diminishing the player experience.

[spalernTJ]

If you take a trip to a high quality restaurant, expecting good food, but are presented with what could be good, but lacking any kinds of seasoning (Salt / pepper) You ask for salt and pepper, one of which you get for half of your meal, they then show up with salt and pepper, and makes the rest of your meal good. You then realize this is what happens every time and they purposefully don't season food, to try and make them look good for appeasing your customer wishes, instead of just seasoning the fucking food from the start.

[Echo of Soul]

If Blizzard "know what they are doing" - why have they lost over 25% of their MAU across their products in a couple of years, and close to 50% over 5? (last time i checked)

Because they think that they know what they're doing. I don't know if it's pride or arrogance but either way it's a huge issue.

[Itori]

Its hard to be positive about a game thats damn near a step away from gacha, im waiting on them to start selling tokens on the shop that give you an extra mythic reward or a reroll at loot.

But to give a serious answer, its because everyone is tired of borrowed power, conduits should have been a cosmetic thing from the beginning, and not pick whatever gives the meta for your class.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Because they think that they know what they're doing. I don't know if it's pride or arrogance but either way it's a huge issue.

It starts with them not really accepting responsibility. Even now they are at least publicly trying to pin this on "the lore finally let it happen" when everyone on the planet knows it was because the players are dipping. No, just no. Just say we refused to change this. We didn't listen to feedback. We are now paying the price for that. We are sorry. We will try to be better in the future. Once they do that they can finally accept some responsibility and start earning people's respect back. Gamers and game designers will not always be on the same page and for good reasons. But ideally the two camps meet somewhere in the middle which allows a game to flourish. With as long of a history WoW has it shouldn't be hard for Blizzard to be able to ID those in the past that are in the beta that have given feedback which directly lead to changes they pushed into the game later in its life cycle. They don't need to put a crown on their heads or announce to the world that they are now the wind that pushes the sails but they sure as hell could at least make note of what they are saying and respect that these people have certainly tried to turn them into the direction they eventually go anyway. They they have been right in the past. Maybe these individuals have a point worth at the very list considering. After all you call them beta testers. Although the problem is more they are "beta advertisements" and not much more.

[Empower]

Prove it. Show me a link that shows more people are playing classic than retail. There aren't any.

Making up facts and thenb claiming you are right doesn't make it so. And for the record, I am in the "don't care one way or the other" group and that absolutely is the majority.

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Wow is selling power? Where. All I see there is mounts, cosmetics and pets. I don't see a single piece of gear or anything related to power or even diminishing the player experience.

It always amazes me how people cope. I'm not even sure I should repost it again you know exactly what I mean. So does everyone else who has ever seen trade chat or opened lfg.

You know it, I know it, little timmy knows it. You just wanna cope.

[Sin of Pride]

Its hard to be positive about a game thats damn near a step away from gacha, im waiting on them to start selling tokens on the shop that give you an extra mythic reward or a reroll at loot.

But to give a serious answer, its because everyone is tired of borrowed power, conduits should have been a cosmetic thing from the beginning, and not pick whatever gives the meta for your class.

I think you mean covenants though I don't blame you for losing track of all the bullshit grind powers.

[Xalvia]

This is why forums really suck for WoW. People like you mention LEGION like its introduced WEEKLY CHORES as a PUNISHMENT and not to bring back casual players who had nothing to do in WoD and demanded a change because the servers were empty and only the small and tiny raiding community was actively playing the game.

The changes in LEGION worked and lots of casual players had again something to enjoy while playing regularly.

To turn the solution of dead/WoD servers - weekly chores, random gearing progression that happens outside of raiding (RAID-OR-DIE) was the whole point of LEGION and a clear success.

I get that not everyone did play before LEGION as MMO-C seems to attract a lot of new players to the forums, but at least look it up why some changes were made and why the game is still using them.

It would be best, if people discussed the current game they at least know and not magically turn the past expansions into EVIL DEV DECISION LAND, because changes had good reasons behind them and made the game more enjoyable to more people.

what are you smoking, he literally was talking about legendary rng and nothing else

legion was great otherwise