Why the negative response to all the positive changes in 9.1.5

[NoiseTank13]

So?
Another one also said that being concerned about the product you're paying for makes you "a part" of the problem that is sexual harassment (at Blizzard).

No, he was saying that with all the heinous shit going on at Blizzard, if the first thought in your head was 'but how will this affect my product consumption' you kinda have fucked priorities.

[Relapses]

So?
Another one also said that being concerned about the product you're paying for makes you "a part" of the problem that is sexual harassment (at Blizzard).

Not sure if that counts as insult in the strictest sense, but implicating your customers in horrendeous working conditions of your company because they are worried about what they've are still paying for certainly feels insulting.

I think the point that guy was making is that using Twitter to flaunt the superiority of your moral compass and use that as a bargaining chip for forcing the developers to change the game is a bit hypocritical. You can discuss the problems with the game's design without constantly mentioning how deplorable the conditions working at Blizzard are. Conflating the two to use it as a battering ram to condemn every single fucking thing the company does (or doesn't) fails to really further the discussion in any meaningful way.

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No, he was saying that with all the heinous shit going on at Blizzard, if the first thought in your head was 'but how will this affect my product consumption' you kinda have fucked priorities.

Also this.

[Empower]

One guy posted about it being bad therefore Blizzard ignored all feedback. This is how the internet works.

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Yes Alex, I'll take "Reasons Devs Do Not Communicate With This Toxic Community" for $1,000.

I mean you have a point. When you look past the high end players wows community is absurdly ignorant of the game and unable to process logical conclusions any better then the devs.

While the high end player base warned of the dangers of systems like ap, azerite, corruption, etc. The filthy casual screamed about finally getting " meaningful choices" then preceeded to accuse mythic raiders of being catered to with bullshit grinds.

Wow needs a system similar to runescape but gated to ce raiders , gladiators and mythic +25. They need knowledgeable hands to take the wheel.

For that matter the mentor system in wow should require more then lfr and leveling as a condition. Players ask min maxing questions only to get misinformation.

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Exactly. They want new characters to be max level, full mythic/pvp geared, and infinite gold. Same nonsense this Motor guy was throwing around.

I think they want their preferred content to feed their content. They want dungeons to gear them for harder dungeons then raids. They don't want to do tons of dailies.

[Lolites]

No, he was saying that with all the heinous shit going on at Blizzard, if the first thought in your head was 'but how will this affect my product consumption' you kinda have fucked priorities.

right? people misinterpret it sooo badly (like pretty much everything), but he was spot on, if you read someone was harrased/assaulted and your first though is "how will it affect ME" you are selfish asshole and DEFINITELY part of the problem

[Ealyssa]

They want dungeons to gear them for harder dungeons then raids.

That's how it is right now. Dailies don't give relevant gear...

[Zig Zug]

Sure, but new management needs to start somewhere.

Are they actually new?

Does new mean better?

Is better something that is novel and did not exist prior?

[mst3kfan]

I think they want their preferred content to feed their content. They want dungeons to gear them for harder dungeons then raids. They don't want to do tons of dailies.

Emissaries are 3-4 WQs that can basically be banked. Korthia has dailies, sure, but none of those are connected to player power other than the weekly Renown quest. You can completely ignore them. Other than what is needed to complete the WEEKLY renown quest which can be completed by doing all sorts of stuff, and doesn't require daily "grinding" to complete.

[Yarathir]

No, he was saying that with all the heinous shit going on at Blizzard, if the first thought in your head was 'but how will this affect my product consumption' you kinda have fucked priorities.

Well, maybe people didn't pay for their sub and expansion assuming the company to be full of serial harassers and sexual predators.

[Kralljin]

No, he was saying that with all the heinous shit going on at Blizzard, if the first thought in your head was 'but how will this affect my product consumption' you kinda have fucked priorities.

No, that's their problem, this is first and foremost and internal Blizzard problem, this has nothing to do with the customers, Blizzard employees being sexually harassed at work is not my fucking problem.

When you, as a developer however, go out on Twitter and say "we're no longer working on the product you're paying for" and then your response to the obvious question (from customers) is "If that is your concern, you are a part of the problem"(that is sexual harassment), you're just a damn idiot.
Bear in mind, that very person kicked off this discussion, he was in no way obliged to make a statement about the status of WoW's development.

The sane response, for which you frankly don't even need to work in PR to come up with, would have been:"I understand the concern, but i ask for patience as this affects the developers personally", not fucking attempt to turn this around and implicate paying customers into it.

This is the classic scenario of someone believing they have the moral highground and thus the right flip off anyone.

I think the point that guy was making is that using Twitter to flaunt the superiority of your moral compass and use that as a bargaining chip for forcing the developers to change the game is a bit hypocritical.

It's not that, really.

As said above, the guy essentially tweeted "We're no longer working on WoW", if you aren't expecting your customers to ask "Well...about the stuff i'm paying for", you should not talk about work related stuff in public or social media, which he certainly should (not) do in the future considering how the followed up that tweet.

In this context, it's not about the game's design (issues), it's about the fact that the devs seemingly believe they are holding a moral highground over their customers and thus the right to belittle them.

However, the fact that Blizzard keeps designing the game in a very divise way and their utter lack of communication in official form, certainly doesn't help the tone of their conversation.

If they however believe that they're doing good work and all those that don't like it have to fuck off, then they also need to accept that's going to take some time until those people leave - after all, people certainly have started to leave.
Altough i do question the business strategy behind "telling loyal customers to fuck off", because at least unofficial numbers are not in their favour and the fact that they make changes people have been asking since Beta (which is essentially an admission of failure on their part) certainly doesn't aid their narrative.

[Relapses]

No, that's their problem, this is first and foremost and internal Blizzard problem, this has nothing to do with the customers, Blizzard employees being sexually harassed at work is not my fucking problem.

When you, as a developer however, go out on Twitter and say "we're no longer working on the product you're paying for" and then your response to the obvious question (from customers) is "If that is your concern, you are a part of the problem"(that is sexual harassment), you're just a damn idiot.
Bear in mind, that very person kicked off this discussion, he was in no way obliged to make a statement about the status of WoW's development.

The sane response, for which you frankly don't even need to work in PR to come up with, would have been:"I understand the concern, but i ask for patience as this affects the developers personally", not fucking attempt to turn this around and implicate paying customers into it.

This is the classic scenario of someone believing they have the moral highground and thus the right flip off anyone.

It's not that, really.

As said above, the guy essentially tweeted "We're no longer working on WoW", if you aren't expecting your customers to ask "Well...about the stuff i'm paying for", you should not talk about work related stuff in public or social media, which that guy clearly has proven with the follow up to implicate customers in that scandal / issue.

In this context, it's not about the game's design (issues), it's about the fact that the devs seemingly believe they are holding a moral highground over their customers and thus the right to belittle them.

However, the fact that Blizzard keeps designing the game in a very divise way and their utter lack of communication in official form, certainly doesn't help the tone of their conversation.

If they however believe that they're doing good work and all those that don't like it have to fuck off, then they also need to accept that's going to take some time until those people leave - after all, people certainly have started to leave.
Altough i do question the business strategy behind "telling loyal customers to fuck off", because at least unofficial numbers are not in their favour and the fact that they make changes people have been asking since Beta (which is essentially an admission of failure on their part) certainly doesn't aid their narrative.

Developers are under no obligation to communicate with their respective communities. And when these communities do nothing but spit vitriolic nonsense 24/7 they have even less reason to communicate. You may disagree with what the guy said or feel like it wasn't PR-friendly but I don't think he was wrong nor do I feel like developers should be respectful of people who frankly do not deserve respect.

[Verdugo]

HAHAHAHA, please tell me you actually belive that. Fans constantly spam nonesense and bullshit. They know JACKSHIT.

Blizzard just demonstrated that they also know jackshit. So please tell me, who knows something.

[Aliven]

No, that's their problem, this is first and foremost and internal Blizzard problem, this has nothing to do with the customers, Blizzard employees being sexually harassed at work is not my fucking problem.

When you, as a developer however, go out on Twitter and say "we're no longer working on the product you're paying for" and then your response to the obvious question (from customers) is "If that is your concern, you are a part of the problem"(that is sexual harassment), you're just a damn idiot.
Bear in mind, that very person kicked off this discussion, he was in no way obliged to make a statement about the status of WoW's development.

The sane response, for which you frankly don't even need to work in PR to come up with, would have been:"I understand the concern, but i ask for patience as this affects the developers personally", not fucking attempt to turn this around and implicate paying customers into it.

This is the classic scenario of someone believing they have the moral highground and thus the right flip off anyone.

It's not that, really.

As said above, the guy essentially tweeted "We're no longer working on WoW", if you aren't expecting your customers to ask "Well...about the stuff i'm paying for", you should not talk about work related stuff in public or social media, which he certainly should (not) do in the future considering how the followed up that tweet.

In this context, it's not about the game's design (issues), it's about the fact that the devs seemingly believe they are holding a moral highground over their customers and thus the right to belittle them.

However, the fact that Blizzard keeps designing the game in a very divise way and their utter lack of communication in official form, certainly doesn't help the tone of their conversation.

If they however believe that they're doing good work and all those that don't like it have to fuck off, then they also need to accept that's going to take some time until those people leave - after all, people certainly have started to leave.
Altough i do question the business strategy behind "telling loyal customers to fuck off", because at least unofficial numbers are not in their favour and the fact that they make changes people have been asking since Beta (which is essentially an admission of failure on their part) certainly doesn't aid their narrative.

You dont pay for content. You pay for priviledge to have access to the game. Thats what sub money gives. And SL exp was payed for 9.0, everything else is their good will.

Do people dont learn for what they are paying for?

[Empower]

That's how it is right now. Dailies don't give relevant gear...

They give conduits and sockets, and leggos if you stretch it to choreghast.

It's weird they didn't to because the first 2 are items only the high end players give a shit about. I've never seen a casual care about conduits myself.

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Emissaries are 3-4 WQs that can basically be banked. Korthia has dailies, sure, but none of those are connected to player power other than the weekly Renown quest. You can completely ignore them. Other than what is needed to complete the WEEKLY renown quest which can be completed by doing all sorts of stuff, and doesn't require daily "grinding" to complete.

I think this sums it up nicely. The rewards high end players want are so forgien and unimportant to you that you don't consciously notice they are even there.

[NoiseTank13]

No, that's their problem, this is first and foremost and internal Blizzard problem, this has nothing to do with the customers, Blizzard employees being sexually harassed at work is not my fucking problem.

There is so much to unpack here but honestly, I'm not going to. I'm just going to say this ranks up there with some of the most selfish, sociopathic things I've read on MMO-C, and if you are flabbergasted why I said this, then there is indeed no point in further discussion aside from this-

When you, as a developer however, go out on Twitter and say "we're no longer working on the product you're paying for"

They never said this. They said 'We're undergoing the equivalent of a personnel/staffing wildfire at the moment and productivity has stalled'. A reasonable person would nod their head and go 'Understandable, wish you the best to get back on track soon'. You however, did the equivalent of shaking your fist and going 'How DARE YOU. I want to talk to your manager!'

[Dracullus]

Blizzard just demonstrated that they also know jackshit. So please tell me, who knows something.

Did you just say that WoW devs knows "jackshit" about game design? I think we just reached peak of absurdity on this forum.

[Verdugo]

Did you just say that WoW devs knows "jackshit" about game design? I think we just reached peak of absurdity on this forum.

Do you have any other explanation for that change?

[Yarathir]

There is so much to unpack here but honestly, I'm not going to. I'm just going to say this ranks up there with some of the most selfish, sociopathic things I've read on MMO-C, and if you are flabbergasted why I said this, then there is indeed no point in further discussion aside from this-



They never said this. They said 'We're undergoing the equivalent of a personnel/staffing wildfire at the moment and productivity has stalled'. A reasonable person would nod their head and go 'Understandable, wish you the best to get back on track soon'. You however, did the equivalent of shaking your fist and going 'How DARE YOU. I want to talk to your manager!'

No, he's right and no amount of moralknighting will change that, baybee.

No player is to blame for that wildfire. Nobody in the community made Blizzard become a cubicle crawling company. It's perfectly fine to be upset that because they can't keep their hands to themselves and the company managers/leaders can't lead, production on something that is being paid for is halted or severely hindered.

Nothing here implies that anyone thinks it was okay that it happened. Quite the opposite. It's pretty normal to assume a company you subscribe to for their products doesn't sexually harass their own employees into suicide and might at some point in the future find itself on fire for it.

[Dracullus]

Do you have any other explanation for that change?

Dude you just said that people who are developing game played by millions knows jackshit about game design. I engaged in this conversation with many people here, but I feel that time would be wasted on you.

[Nnyco]

Blizzard just demonstrated that they also know jackshit. So please tell me, who knows something.

Grade A delusion buddy, what about you open some armchair developer thread to "prove" us. Ha, get real.

[Aliven]

No, he's right and no amount of moralknighting will change that, baybee.

No player is to blame for that wildfire. Nobody in the community made Blizzard become a cubicle crawling company. It's perfectly fine to be upset that because they can't keep their hands to themselves and the company managers/leaders can't lead, production on something that is being paid for is halted or severely hindered.

Nothing here implies that anyone thinks it was okay that it happened. Quite the opposite. It's pretty normal to assume a company you subscribe to for their products doesn't sexually harass their own employees into suicide and might at some point in the future find itself on fire for it.

You dont pay for content. They dont give a fuck if you pay or not. Company cares, not devs.