Class Skins would add many new classes and be a major draw for a new expansion

[jellmoo]

Gonna take this opportunity to hash out some actual Class Skin ideas to discuss

Class concepts are generally Blank Slates when it comes to game mechanics. We have 'Brewmasters' that Heal and Demon Hunters that Tank, so let's open up all possibilities and discuss them.

Shadow Hunters
- Represented by Vol'jin, Rokhan
- Voodoo themes and Dark spirit magic that is not-quite-necromancy
- Lots of Loa themes, so possible connections to animals/spirit animals.
- Traditionally uses 1-handed throwing Glaives, Vol'jin mentions using Daggers
- Has assortment of Heals and CC abilities.

Tanking - I don't see this being a very viable option, though it's possible. Any thoughts on viability of Tanking specs?
Melee DPS - Very viable.
Ranged DPS - Possible, not very likely. Guns/Bows seem too specific to adapt
Caster DPS - Viable. Dark spirit magic is open to explore here
Healer - Viable. They already have heals and support abilities from WC3

So which classes would you see adapting a Shadow Hunter to? I would again say that I'm keeping concepts open to adapting any Class, so there's no wrong options here. We might get an odd fit for a class that we never considered before.

I think that the Shaman is by far the easiest way to fit the concept. The biggest "hurdle" I think is the weapons situation, which I don't think there's a ton to be done about unless transmog options get loosened (which I would absolutely be in favor of) but otherwise I think the Shaman toolkit, while imperfect, is the best matchup in that it gives us the ability to leverage both melee and spellcasting. Most of the abilities don't feel super out of place and by and large a simple reskin on spell effects really does most of the heavy lifting in making the concept work.

I'm trying to wrap my head around the Monk as a contender but I get stuck on Brewmaster. It feels like a really weird set of mechanics to use. I guess you could convert Keg Toss into some sort of thrown weapon and breath of fire into more of a spirit attack, but given how often a Brewmaster is tossing kegs, I'm not sure how it's going to feel on a visual level.

Rogue is a weird fit to me since I feel like it's already the melee stylings of the class anyway. I'm not quite sure I can think up 3 specs worth of melee Shadow Hunter stuffz.

For me, I would like to see the Priest used more for a Voodoo Priest type of character and tie it into Bwonsamdi. Because... welll... fun...

[FossilFree]

The only mechanical changes I would want to see on class skins are changes to gear type. Like having different weapon skills or wearing a different armor type. There would probably need to be a passive ability to balance these changes. Beyond that, they should remain the same.

Gear type changes would open up a lot more skins and allow them to be much more creative with them. For instance, the shadow hunter could be based on a shaman, but one that uses ranged weapons instead (in addition to animation, icon, and spell name changes of course). Another example would be a blademaster rogue that uses cloth armor and 2h weapons.

[cocomen2]

Just swap lightening bolt with glaive toss and Shadow Hunter is good to be Shaman skin.
(anyway seems devs feel like any spec of shaman is bound to use lightening bolt in some way)

And meanwhile cast of it goes on, character spins glaive in his hands so actual weapon still that of Shaman but animation for ability =Glaive.



Spam it for cool animation, spin to win)))

[THC BANDIT]

Why is Teriz banned again?

[Kumorii]

Why is Teriz banned again?

I find it amusing that both tinker defenders got banned.
Not sure if discussing bans are allowed, but I imagine it has to do with the argumentative tactic that's often deployed. At some points it turns into borderline trolling depending on how you look at it. Especially when it comes to shutting down other peoples ideas and desires. Lots of hypocrisy and lots of riling others up for no reason.

Just my guess tho.

[jellmoo]

The only mechanical changes I would want to see on class skins are changes to gear type. Like having different weapon skills or wearing a different armor type. There would probably need to be a passive ability to balance these changes. Beyond that, they should remain the same.

Gear type changes would open up a lot more skins and allow them to be much more creative with them. For instance, the shadow hunter could be based on a shaman, but one that uses ranged weapons instead (in addition to animation, icon, and spell name changes of course). Another example would be a blademaster rogue that uses cloth armor and 2h weapons.

I think that putting mechanical changes into it really hurts the concept, since such a big part of what makes Class Skins cool is the fact that it requires zero balancing on Blizzard's part. I would just open up transmog options in order to let us better customize our characters and match a Class Skin's aesthetic.

[draugril]

I think that putting mechanical changes into it really hurts the concept, since such a big part of what makes Class Skins cool is the fact that it requires zero balancing on Blizzard's part. I would just open up transmog options in order to let us better customize our characters and match a Class Skin's aesthetic.

This was, at its core, the original pitch for doing Allied Races - just giving existing assets a new coat of paint to give the players more diverse options. As we've seen, however, they overcomplicated this original vision with rigs like the Zandalari and Kul Tiran, and I believe because of that overcomplication, they stopped adding to the system. l wouldn't be surprised if, should Class Skins become a "thing," they'd follow in that exact pattern. Introduce a lower effort content stream, then add so much unneeded garbage to that stream that it stops the flow entirely.

[Elyiandris]

While necromancer is the go-to concept for warlock skins, I'd like to see an eldritch summoner concept replacing warlock minions with void/old god creatures like Kthyr, faceless ones, voidwraiths and so on.

[AcidicSyn]

Gonna take this opportunity to hash out some actual Class Skin ideas to discuss

Class concepts are generally Blank Slates when it comes to game mechanics. We have 'Brewmasters' that Heal and Demon Hunters that Tank, so let's open up all possibilities and discuss them.

Shadow Hunters
- Represented by Vol'jin, Rokhan
- Voodoo themes and Dark spirit magic that is not-quite-necromancy
- Lots of Loa themes, so possible connections to animals/spirit animals.
- Traditionally uses 1-handed throwing Glaives, Vol'jin mentions using Daggers
- Has assortment of Heals and CC abilities.

Tanking - I don't see this being a very viable option, though it's possible. Any thoughts on viability of Tanking specs?
Melee DPS - Very viable.
Ranged DPS - Possible, not very likely. Guns/Bows seem too specific to adapt
Caster DPS - Viable. Dark spirit magic is open to explore here
Healer - Viable. They already have heals and support abilities from WC3

So which classes would you see adapting a Shadow Hunter to? I would again say that I'm keeping concepts open to adapting any Class, so there's no wrong options here. We might get an odd fit for a class that we never considered before.

My picks for possible classes in no particular order:

Shaman
- Obvious connection to Shadow Hunters already with Chain Heal and Hex. Elements could easily be adapted to a more traditional Voodoo vibe. Also has the Melee/Caster/Healer specs that would fit. I think this could be a strong Core class

Monk
- There's a lot of strong concepts here for adapting Windwalker and Mistweaver that could be interesting. I'd be interested in seeing them add unique animations for some moves too, like a more Capoiera based set of kicks and martial arts. Channeled healing spells would work well, Statues and August Celestials can be adapted to various Loa, and brews make total sense with a Witchdoctor connection.
- Brewmaster would be the interesting one to adapt here. Adapt, or consider cutting this spec entirely? It's an odd fit no matter how I see it

Rogue
- Lots of Shadowy goodness, and poisons and bleeds could be adapted as dark magic inflictions. Stealth wouldn't be too out of place for a class that works in the Shadows.
- Very little use of magic though. Gameplay-wise I'd say it's not as strong of a match as Monk or Shaman

Priest
- Double down on the Healer aspect, full support class. Let's go ham with the heals, and theme the whole thing with Voodoo and Loas. Any ranged attacks could simply adapt Glaive Throwing visuals rather than traditional spellcasting, like Divine Star being a Shadow Glaive that saps energies from enemies and redirects it to allies.
- Shadow spec is prime for being adapted to Voodoo. Shadow Form could temporarily grant you a Bwonsamedi-like form, boosting your Voodoo abilities. Already has lots of mind control and fears, which fits a Shadow Hunter motif.
- No real Phys Melee damage spec however, but I think this still has strong potential as a class adaptation


Shaman seems to be the best fit on the outset. I think my personal pick would be the Monk however, since I think there is a lot more strong potential for thematic tie-ins and adaptability for a very stylized Shadow Hunter that would use exotic hand-to-hand combat skills and acrobatic maneuvers. I'd also love to see how Celestials could be adapted to various Loa themes for added effect. Mistweaver adapted to dark spirit magic visuals would be a treat too, taking a traditionally soothing aesthetic and giving it a complete Voodoo makeover.

I like this approach, and the classes you'd connect them with. However...
I see two possible issues with Shadow Hunters:

1. They'd have to be Horde only. What would Alliance get? (this is more of a minor issue as I'm sure there are plenty of Alliance only class skins- Warden for example)

2. I'd be worried about yet another troll centric story. Though I suppose something like class skins wouldn't need to necessarily be the focus of the story. (Though would be neat if trolls could have a quest chain similar to heritage armor for unlocking it)

[Varx]

Priest - Tide Sage

Mage - Blood Mage

Warlock - Necromancer

Rogue- Warden

Druid - Dragonsworn

Monk - Monastery monk (holy monk)

DH- Faceless Hunter

Hunter - Void ranger (Because Dark Ranger should be a 4th spec)

Shaman - Witch Doctor

Warrior - Dragoon

Death Knight - Battle Magus

Paladin - Void Knight

And because they're inevitable....

Tinker - Forgelite

[Triceron]

I like this approach, and the classes you'd connect them with. However...
I see two possible issues with Shadow Hunters:

1. They'd have to be Horde only. What would Alliance get? (this is more of a minor issue as I'm sure there are plenty of Alliance only class skins- Warden for example)

2. I'd be worried about yet another troll centric story. Though I suppose something like class skins wouldn't need to necessarily be the focus of the story. (Though would be neat if trolls could have a quest chain similar to heritage armor for unlocking it)

I imagine Class skins would be an ensemble presentation, like 3-6 options presentable in one expansion. They don't need to be a story focus much like the Allied Races weren't the focal point of the expansions other than Kul Tirans and Zandalari. The idea is that we get these classes playable for more incidental reasons; a call to action or some broader reasonings.

Trolls and Zandalari would be the obvious fit, but I think this can be opened up to other races given that we have culture-Specific classes like Druid and Monk adaptable to more than just NE and Pandaren. It would simply be opening up the Loa to more races and allowing them to adopt the use of them, and I mean we already see a lot of that neutral connection through any race and class interacting with Loa all these years.

Ideally, in my own mind, Shadow Hunters could adapt a broader Loa and Voodoo theme, while different races and cultures are represented by their own Loa statues; similar to how Shamans get unique racial totems.

For example, we have Monk statues for August Celestials, each representing a different role or effect. We have a tanky creature with Nuizao the Ox, an agile winged creature for Chiji, a wise mythical creature for Yu'lon. Troll Shadowhunters could have totems of Akali the Rhino or Nalorakk the Bear as tank, Hireek the Bat or Jan'alai the Dragonhawk as the agile flyer, and Kragwa the frog or Torga as the wise one. These could all be adapted to either Monk or Shaman, on as Loa representations of Statues or various Shaman Totems.

Then this could be expanded to new races, either with more specific and new Loa or just reusing the Troll ones as they could adopt just as easily as races adopt Pandaren Celestials. If we expand Loa then Draenei could get an Elekk, Talbuk and Fae Dragon Loas, Dwarves get Ram and Gryphon Loas, Night Elves tap into the Ancients like Ursoc, Aviana and Malorne, etc. The idea is that Loa and Wild Gods can all be treated as sources of power by invoking them spiritually, to boost tanking or healing or whatever. And new totem visuals just reinforces the idea that it isn't exclusive to any one culture (if we want to tie more Alliance customization into it).

As for the art, every creature listed is already in the game so its just adapting them as a totem or statue. That opens up cultural diversity for an otherwise Troll-centric class, much like how Forms and Totems opened up Shaman and Druid to many races.

[hynx]

people genuinely expect a 4th spec, when Blizzard bitches whines complains and frankly struggles to keep the game balanced, and you want to add more complications to the balancing equation, for a constantly shrinking audience? not to mention the lack of identity classes have now. used to be only one class had battle rez. warlocks used to need soul shards to soul stone res. and shamans...well ankh was for a time only for horde....now ALL OF THAT is gone. classes feel the same, just with different visual spell cast effects to make the numbers go bigger and bigger. each class getting a "4th spec" wont reinvigorate the game when the classes and specs are very very homogeneous already. it would be a slight visual pallete swap if anything, between aoe spells and single target spells. Am i casting Blizzard or pyroblast? its visually different, but relatively the same spell type, with some very subtle script variance when calculating the dps math. but functionally is the same aoe spell just blue instead of red.

[jellmoo]

This was, at its core, the original pitch for doing Allied Races - just giving existing assets a new coat of paint to give the players more diverse options. As we've seen, however, they overcomplicated this original vision with rigs like the Zandalari and Kul Tiran, and I believe because of that overcomplication, they stopped adding to the system. l wouldn't be surprised if, should Class Skins become a "thing," they'd follow in that exact pattern. Introduce a lower effort content stream, then add so much unneeded garbage to that stream that it stops the flow entirely.

The funny thing about Allied races to me is that when first introduced it really felt like it was a system just designed to let each faction have access to both types of elf. I mean, Highmoutain Tauren and Lightforged Draenei could just as easily have been nothing more than added customization options to the base races.

BFA really shook it up with the Zandalari and Kul Tirans, and maybe even the Vulpera to a much lesser extent. The weirdly stupid thing is that they took some flack for not 'having a new race or class' that probably could have been avoided if they had just advertised Zandalari and Kul Tirans as new playable races without the Allied Race tag. Ah well...

Would they do it again with something like Class Skins? I would hope not, but their track record isn't great. At the very least they would probably find a way to monetize it, which isn't exactly amazing.

[Triceron]

people genuinely expect a 4th spec, when Blizzard bitches whines complains and frankly struggles to keep the game balanced, and you want to add more complications to the balancing equation, for a constantly shrinking audience? not to mention the lack of identity classes have now. used to be only one class had battle rez. warlocks used to need soul shards to soul stone res. and shamans...well ankh was for a time only for horde....now ALL OF THAT is gone. classes feel the same, just with different visual spell cast effects to make the numbers go bigger and bigger. each class getting a "4th spec" wont reinvigorate the game when the classes and specs are very very homogeneous already. it would be a slight visual pallete swap if anything, between aoe spells and single target spells. Am i casting Blizzard or pyroblast? its visually different, but relatively the same spell type, with some very subtle script variance when calculating the dps math. but functionally is the same aoe spell just blue instead of red.

This thread isn't about 4th specs....

[AcidicSyn]

I imagine Class skins would be an ensemble presentation, like 3-6 options presentable in one expansion. They don't need to be a story focus much like the Allied Races weren't the focal point of the expansions other than Kul Tirans and Zandalari. The idea is that we get these classes playable for more incidental reasons; a call to action or some broader reasonings.

Trolls and Zandalari would be the obvious fit, but I think this can be opened up to other races given that we have culture-Specific classes like Druid and Monk adaptable to more than just NE and Pandaren. It would simply be opening up the Loa to more races and allowing them to adopt the use of them, and I mean we already see a lot of that neutral connection through any race and class interacting with Loa all these years.

Ideally, in my own mind, Shadow Hunters could adapt a broader Loa and Voodoo theme, while different races and cultures are represented by their own Loa statues; similar to how Shamans get unique racial totems.

For example, we have Monk statues for August Celestials, each representing a different role or effect. We have a tanky creature with Nuizao the Ox, an agile winged creature for Chiji, a wise mythical creature for Yu'lon. Troll Shadowhunters could have totems of Akali the Rhino or Nalorakk the Bear as tank, Hireek the Bat or Jan'alai the Dragonhawk as the agile flyer, and Kragwa the frog or Torga as the wise one.

Then this could be expanded to new races, either with more specific and new Loa or just reusing the Troll ones as they could adopt jist as easily as races adopt Pandaren Celestials. If we expand Loa then Draenei could get an Elekk Loa, Dwarves get Ram and Gryphon Loas, Night Elves tap into the Ancients like Ursoc, Aviana and Malorne, etc. The idea is that Loa and Wild Gods can all be treated as sources of power by invoking them spiritually, to boost tanking or healing or whatever. And new totem visuals just reinforces the idea that it isn't exclusive to any one culture (if we want to tie more Alliance customization into it).

As for the art, every creature listed is already in the game so its just adapting them as a totem or statue. That opens up cultural diversity for an otherwise Troll-centric class, much like how Forms and Totems opened up Shaman and Druid to many races.

an interesting approach but I would have to strongly disagree with the idea of giving something so troll-centric like Loa to anyone that isn't a troll. I feel like that would be tantamount to Orcs becoming Worshippers of Elune. I like the idea of class skins opening up class restrictions to other races (like the druid tinker skin idea allowing gnomes/goblins to be druids; but only with that class skin), but it would need to make sense and I am at a loss trying to imagine a lore reason why any race other than troll would get power from the loa.

Maybe I am nitpicking, maybe call them something else, just "loa" to me doesn't make sense if not attached to specifically Troll cultures.

Since a class skin would not be anything different mechanically speaking. I don't see the issue with certain skins being specific to certain factions or even certain races though, would lend more to race identity in my opinion. I couldn't see any other race being a Sunwalker that isn't Tauren, nor a Non-Night Elf warden. Dark Rangers to me, have to be undead at the very least, if not undead elves exclusively.

All that said though, so long as there is a good lore reason for it, then I could drop my quibbles.

[Triceron]

Since a class skin would not be anything different mechanically speaking. I don't see the issue with certain skins being specific to certain factions or even certain races though, would lend more to race identity in my opinion. I couldn't see any other race being a Sunwalker that isn't Tauren, nor a Non-Night Elf warden. Dark Rangers to me, have to be undead at the very least, if not undead elves exclusively.

All that said though, so long as there is a good lore reason for it, then I could drop my quibbles.

The way I see it is other races taking lessons from the Shadow Hunters and adapting it to their own cultures, or using something that already existing in their cultures to adapt the Dark Spiritual magic that connects all Shadow Hunters.

The concept is similar to how Paladin is typically identified by the faith in the Holy Light, but has since branched off to simply be 'any light that you draw your Faith from', be it Holy Light, the Sun, the Naaru or even just a solid faith in upholding the Law (as Dark Irons don't have any particular religious faith centered on Light at all).

Druidism works the same way, where the actual Druidic type of magic only applies to Night Elves and Tauren, whereas Worgen and Kul Tiran are adapting their Harvest Witch/Drust connections and Trolls are using their Loa pantheon. So I'm adapting the Shadow Hunter the same way and turning the tables; only Trolls specifically use Voodoo as their form of Dark Spiritual magic. Night Elves could connect to their Wild Gods using their own brand of dark spirit magic rather than typical Druidic methods, and it's not out of their nature considering Wardens already do so for many of their abilities, such as Avatar and Spirits of Vengeance. Draenei also have this connection with dark spiritual magic as we've seen in places like Auchenai Crypts, where they sourced powers from a Void-state Naaru unwittingly damning their own souls. What if the Shadow Hunter taught them how to safely tap into this power instead?

So the separation of non-Voodoo Shadow Hunters would be adapted just as we have non-Druids like the Zandalari Haruspex, or non-Paladins like the Sunwalkers. They're all connected by a broad theme of using Dark spirit magic and connecting with 'Wild Gods', and through learning techniques from Shadow Hunters themselves, they are formalized as Shadow Hunters.

[AcidicSyn]

The way I see it is other races taking lessons from the Shadow Hunters and adapting it to their own cultures, or using something that already existing in their cultures to adapt the Dark Spiritual magic that connects all Shadow Hunters.

The concept is similar to how Paladin is typically identified by the faith in the Holy Light, but has since branched off to simply be 'any light that you draw your Faith from', be it Holy Light, the Sun, the Naaru or even just a solid faith in upholding the Law (as Dark Irons don't have any particular religious faith centered on Light at all).

Druidism works the same way, where the actual Druidic type of magic only applies to Night Elves and Tauren, whereas Worgen and Kul Tiran are adapting their Harvest Witch/Drust connections and Trolls are using their Loa pantheon. So I'm adapting the Shadow Hunter the same way and turning the tables; only Trolls specifically use Voodoo as their form of Dark Spiritual magic. Night Elves could connect to their Wild Gods using their own brand of dark spirit magic rather than typical Druidic methods, and it's not out of their nature considering Wardens already do so for many of their abilities, such as Avatar and Spirits of Vengeance. Draenei also have this connection with dark spiritual magic as we've seen in places like Auchenai Crypts, where they sourced powers from a Void-state Naaru unwittingly damning their own souls. What if the Shadow Hunter taught them how to safely tap into this power instead?

So the separation of non-Voodoo Shadow Hunters would be adapted just as we have non-Druids like the Zandalari Haruspex, or non-Paladins like the Sunwalkers. They're all connected by a broad theme of using Dark spirit magic and connecting with 'Wild Gods', and through learning techniques from Shadow Hunters themselves, they are formalized as Shadow Hunters.

Explained this way I could see it for sure. I suppose I was just nitpicking the use of the word "loa" in your first response. Though there would need to be a shadow hunter willing to teach at least one Alliance member for it to jump faction lines even with this explanation, since an existing shadow hunter is necessary for them to learn? That was why I initially said something like Warden could be the counterpart on the Alliance, though so long as just one shadow hunter was willing to disregard the faction barrier, it would satisfy my...uh....nitpickiness?

[Triceron]

Explained this way I could see it for sure. I suppose I was just nitpicking the use of the word "loa" in your first response. Though there would need to be a shadow hunter willing to teach at least one Alliance member for it to jump faction lines even with this explanation, since an existing shadow hunter is necessary for them to learn? That was why I initially said something like Warden could be the counterpart on the Alliance, though so long as just one shadow hunter was willing to disregard the faction barrier, it would satisfy my...uh....nitpickiness?

No worries, everyone has their own perspective on this, and I admit it won't be for everyone. I mean there's plenty of stuff in game and in the lore that I'm hung up about myself, like Shadow Priest old god powers being tied to Priest Races that have no interest in delving into that.

Ideally with Class skins, I would hope they could bridge it into the story more than they did for Monks just 'being there' and throwing random Pandaren Trainers all around the world as though it should be no surprise.


From a lore perspective, I think the ideal way would be to set up some event that explains the justification for new classes, and maybe a common thread between them all. Say if this were to happen straight after Shadowlands, we could have Zovaal's shenanigans tear holes in the fabric of reality and connect Azeroth even further than just the gaping hole above Icecrown. A sort of event akin to the Spiritual Convergence in Korra (Avatar) series, where some common folk start awakening spiritual connections where it once used to be highly uncommon. And a general higher awareness of the spirits of the other side, there's going to be more room for classes that may aim to appease them like Shadow Hunters, or control them like Necromancers. And it opens up to Dark Rangers, Wardens and such as well. Each have their own themes, and all of them could be viable class skins with a common 'Post-Shadowlands' thematic connection. How it plays into the next expansion? Well depends on what the big bad is, but I'm sure they can figure out a connection there as well (or outright ignore it, just like Monks having nothing to do with Garrosh).

And at the same time they could include new themes that cover the lighter-aspect of the new expansion. Say it happened to be Dragon Isles and we have some Titan/Arcane and ancient lore connections. That would be an ideal way to incorporate Runemasters, Spellbreakers, Dragonsworn, and even Bards. So it'd be a mix of themes, Dark class options from exiting Shadowlands, and 'lighter' themed classes upon entering the new expansion. They could pick and choose what fits, what they want to explore.

[username993720]

I think he just didn't think it through that WC3 and HOTS mechanics don't actually translate 1:1 into WoW at all, and we've never seen a case where any ability was actually straight up taken out and worked as-is without modification for WoW. Everything has to be adapted because they're literally different games.

I'm aware. But, the general idea is there. If you stray too much, it is not that ability anymore.

Take the Demon Hunter, for example. Sweeping Strike, Metamorphosis and The Hunt were almost accurately translated to Fel Rush, Metamorphosis and The Hunt.

These kind of responses come directly from people who don't understand anything about Game Design or Gameplay mechanics. They only want Classes be playable with all their abilities in tact without any consideration of how it would actually work in WoW. And without actually thinking about it themselves, they'll openly challenge others to do so, for the purpose of discrediting them when they fail to achieve the implausible. It's a bad faith argument.

I'd say the opposite.
Trying to fit a certain class concept on an existing one is being oblivious to their mechanics.

If it wasn't prohibited, i'd ask you to fit Druid abilities on Engineering items. But, alas, anything that actually challenges this utopian concept is prohibited.

(Chillax, Aucald, there's no talk about the 'Voldermort' class)

Breath of Sindragosa is an adaptation of being able to 'summon a Frostwyrm into battle'. The actual mechanic that Arthas has? He literally SUMMONED A RAID BOSS. That is not something that will fly for a Player Character.

It was still translated the same from WoW to HotS (or the other way around). I wonder why.

Not according to the standards set by certain posters. Which is hilarious when you realize that virtually all abilities poached from other sources are altered in some way - it's the thematic Blizzard strives to capture, not pedantic adherence to previous mechanics that cannot possibly be transitioned to this genre.

Which, still cannot be captured by simply slapping a new look on an existing ability, as the mechanics of one class do not fulfill all of that of another one.

But why does it have to be exact abilities? You're making a statement of fact that WoW's currently-non-existing tinker class has those exact abilities, and that is an factually wrong statement to make.

We don't have to adapt all those abilities you made up in your mind because those abilities don't exist because the class that they're supposed to belong to does not exist.

Since talking about it is forbidden, i cannot genuinely reply to you.
All i'll say is one class cannot possibly fulfill another one, no matter how hard you try.

(again, Aucald, no need to be alarmed. It's just a reply).

- Voodoo themes and Dark spirit magic that is not-quite-necromancy

One reason not to have the Necromancer over the Shadow Hunter.

So which classes would you see adapting a Shadow Hunter to? I would again say that I'm keeping concepts open to adapting any Class, so there's no wrong options here. We might get an odd fit for a class that we never considered before.

My picks for possible classes in no particular order:

Shaman
- Obvious connection to Shadow Hunters already with Chain Heal and Hex. Elements could easily be adapted to a more traditional Voodoo vibe. Also has the Melee/Caster/Healer specs that would fit. I think this could be a strong Core class

Monk
- There's a lot of strong concepts here for adapting Windwalker and Mistweaver that could be interesting. I'd be interested in seeing them add unique animations for some moves too, like a more Capoiera based set of kicks and martial arts. Channeled healing spells would work well, Statues and August Celestials can be adapted to various Loa, and brews make total sense with a Witchdoctor connection.
- Brewmaster would be the interesting one to adapt here. Adapt, or consider cutting this spec entirely? It's an odd fit no matter how I see it

Rogue
- Lots of Shadowy goodness, and poisons and bleeds could be adapted as dark magic inflictions. Stealth wouldn't be too out of place for a class that works in the Shadows.
- Very little use of magic though. Gameplay-wise I'd say it's not as strong of a match as Monk or Shaman

Priest
- Double down on the Healer aspect, full support class. Let's go ham with the heals, and theme the whole thing with Voodoo and Loas. Any ranged attacks could simply adapt Glaive Throwing visuals rather than traditional spellcasting, like Divine Star being a Shadow Glaive that saps energies from enemies and redirects it to allies.
- Shadow spec is prime for being adapted to Voodoo. Shadow Form could temporarily grant you a Bwonsamedi-like form, boosting your Voodoo abilities. Already has lots of mind control and fears, which fits a Shadow Hunter motif.
- No real Phys Melee damage spec however, but I think this still has strong potential as a class adaptation


Shaman seems to be the best fit on the outset. I think my personal pick would be the Monk however, since I think there is a lot more strong potential for thematic tie-ins and adaptability for a very stylized Shadow Hunter that would use exotic hand-to-hand combat skills and acrobatic maneuvers. I'd also love to see how Celestials could be adapted to various Loa themes for added effect. Mistweaver adapted to dark spirit magic visuals would be a treat too, taking a traditionally soothing aesthetic and giving it a complete Voodoo makeover.

That's exactly what i'm talking about. The inability to actually apply it to a certain class. Is it a Shaman? is it a Rogue? is it a Priest? It's neither and all of them together. That's the base flaw of this concept. No one class can fulfill a potential new class. It would have to take a little bit of each of the classes' mechanics:

"Some shadow hunters dual-wield glaives, similarly to demon hunters.
In World of Warcraft terms, different shadow hunters have been seen as variants of hunters, shaman, rogues, or priests.
While shadow hunters primarily use glaives, they have also been seen with bows and polearms, weapons usable by hunters, and many have been depicted wearing hunter-variant mail. Some have also been seen with animal pets, such as the panthers in Zul'Gurub which tail behind Gurubashi Shadow Hunters. Vol'jin mentions in Shadows of the Horde that he once had a pet that died.
[Healing Wave] and [Hex] were Warcraft III shadow hunter abilities that were given to shaman (though the shadow hunter spell functioned more like [Chain Heal], another shaman spell). [Vol'jin's Serpent Totem] is a shaman-exclusive toy that summons a serpent ward similar to those used by shadow hunters in Warcraft III. Vol'jin has also been called a shaman, but this could have been an oversight.
Vol'jin and other shadow hunter NPCs have also used shadow priest abilities throughout World of Warcraft, such as [Shadow Word: Pain], something not part of the Warcraft III unit's skill set.
Some shadow hunter NPCs have been seen using rogue abilities, and have been depicted wearing rogue leather armor. They've also been seen in different places using either the rogue's variant of [Stealth], or the hunter's variant of [Camouflage].
Like troll druids, shadow hunters commune with multiple loa. This is in contrast with troll priests, who are devoted to only one loa."

"Witch doctors are semi-playable as troll priests (with shadowy magic, ritualistic chants and spiritual guidance), shamans (with wards being replaced by totems), and warlocks (with curses, soul harvesting, haunt)."

This was, at its core, the original pitch for doing Allied Races - just giving existing assets a new coat of paint to give the players more diverse options. As we've seen, however, they overcomplicated this original vision with rigs like the Zandalari and Kul Tiran, and I believe because of that overcomplication, they stopped adding to the system. l wouldn't be surprised if, should Class Skins become a "thing," they'd follow in that exact pattern. Introduce a lower effort content stream, then add so much unneeded garbage to that stream that it stops the flow entirely.

What complications? Kul Tirans open the way for new races to be added, like Ogres, and Zandalari use pre-existing skeletons.

Just look at the Shadowlands races and tell me they stopped.

While necromancer is the go-to concept for warlock skins, I'd like to see an eldritch summoner concept replacing warlock minions with void/old god creatures like Kthyr, faceless ones, voidwraiths and so on.

Could be a 4th spec, since the Void aspect in Warlocks is really under-accentuated.

1. They'd have to be Horde only. What would Alliance get? (this is more of a minor issue as I'm sure there are plenty of Alliance only class skins- Warden for example)

I'd say anyone who deals with witchcraft, like the Drust, for example. (if they ever become playable).
Wardens already have a counterpart on the Horde - Dark Wardens.

Am i casting Blizzard or pyroblast? its visually different, but relatively the same spell type, with some very subtle script variance when calculating the dps math. but functionally is the same aoe spell just blue instead of red.

How's pyroblast and Blizzard the same? would have made more sense to compare Blizzard to Rain of Fire, or Pyroblast to Soulfire.

The funny thing about Allied races to me is that when first introduced it really felt like it was a system just designed to let each faction have access to both types of elf. I mean, Highmoutain Tauren and Lightforged Draenei could just as easily have been nothing more than added customization options to the base races.

At one point, they wanted "Bull Rush" to be a Tauren racial. With Highmountain, they had a chance to introduce it.

I can only guess the same was the case for the Vindicar's Light's Judgment.

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Moderators: you can ease off the harshness. We're just debating. No harm done. No one is dismissing anything (just shedding some light on the matter). And no one is talking about the big 'no no' class.

[Ielenia]

Since talking about it is forbidden, i cannot genuinely reply to you.

And yet you did reply instead of just moving on?

All i'll say is one class cannot possibly fulfill another one, no matter how hard you try.

Yes. Yes, it can. I'm someone who strongly prefers an actual class than "class skin", but even I can admit that reskinning classes can bring other fantasies fully into realization. A reskinned warlock class can fulfill the necromancer fantasy, as much I would prefer the concept to be its own class with its own unique mechanics. Sam thing with druids and tinkers, hunters and dark rangers, warriors and barbarians/blademasters, etc.