Why the negative response to all the positive changes in 9.1.5

[InflaterMouse]

Wow, no shit. I guess that's the reason I did the Archivist grind. And how exactly that this negate the fact that there's entire item upgrade system that's aimed at the casual audience? These people don't give a damn about miniscule upgrades from conduits and have something designed specifically for them. If anything, 233ilvl gear is a much bigger upgrade for such players than 2 extra sockets will be for someone like me.

The place sucks, but it has nothing to do with catering to 1%, but badly designed reward structure, boring, empty environments and tying a grind to random daily activies with no real rewards before the final ranks. And none of that is something that would appeal to mythic raiders specifically.
So... what kind of point are you making? Can you say that Korthia was designed solely to cater to the 1%? With all their collectibles, pets, mounts and item rewards being completely useless to everyone else? Or is it the exact opposite, with the "hardcores" only really caring about small part of this content?

I mean I still play wow, I find things to do with the people I enjoy hanging out with and we do them. I have my issues with designs in game as well. But the rate at which players can gear up past heroic dungeon gear doesn't concern me or impact my game or any other people I knows game. Not sure why this is a topic for discussion. ilvl 230 something gear isn't really that relevant, especially welfare gear from Korthia.

This has been said thousands of times on these forums but it feels like it falls on deaf ears (eyes I guess if you read this) but the game wouldn't be alive without casuals. This game has WAY more casuals than the top tiered players and the biggest issue I see in these forums is people who think they aren't casual bitching and moaning and groaning about casual this and that. When in fact they are fking casuals. Casuals make up the majority of the player base in wow. The rate at which people gear, complete hard content, level alts and that kind of shit has little to no impact on casuals. There are huge issues with this game that impact playability and quality of the content, what people do in their game, rate at which they gear, how much real money they pay to get carried and so on has no impact on my game or yours.

[VoidSeeker199X]

I mean, I pretty much said exactly that in my next post. I don't like the systems personally. But I also don't think they're "shackling the playerbase" or "ignoring feedback" by continuing to develop them. Clearly somebody somewhere likes this shit otherwise we wouldn't keep seeing it. I'd wager there isn't a whole lot of crossover between people who post on fan forums and people who actually enjoy the video game though.

Have you been living under a rock? TBC Classic is THE embodiment of milking the players. And no they don't listen to feedback. They make the game shit on purpose to boost numbers. As long as you buy the expansion and log in once a month everything's fine. Despite what all of you say Shadowlands has sold record numbers.

[Schizoide]

So they're changing the hard AE cap to a soft cap, which is exactly what I and everybody other WoW player begged them to do throughout beta.

I mean, it's a real pisser. I try not to get enraged at a videogame, but why did we have to live with that garbage for the past year? It never made any sense and felt horrible.

Anyway.

"Positive change."

[mst3kfan]

Yet you can't get conduits or sockets both items almost solely wanted by high end players..

Can you not be intellectually honest?

Conduits come from Dungeons, Raids, and WBs. Korthia dailies don't give those to you. Considering the vast majority of players are not as you call "high end players", the addition of the sockets to your gear will not give you any competitive edge in your lonely dredge of doing all the big bad dailies that you already don't need to do.

Relapses said it all.

[Sin of Pride]

Wow, no shit. I guess that's the reason I did the Archivist grind. And how exactly that this negate the fact that there's entire item upgrade system that's aimed at the casual audience? These people don't give a damn about miniscule upgrades from conduits and have something designed specifically for them. If anything, 233ilvl gear is a much bigger upgrade for such players than 2 extra sockets will be for someone like me.

The place sucks, but it has nothing to do with catering to 1%, but badly designed reward structure, boring, empty environments and tying a grind to random daily activies with no real rewards before the final ranks. And none of that is something that would appeal to mythic raiders specifically.
So... what kind of point are you making? Can you say that Korthia was designed solely to cater to the 1%? With all their collectibles, pets, mounts and item rewards being completely useless to everyone else? Or is it the exact opposite, with the "hardcores" only really caring about small part of this content?

The rewards from grinding it were made to cater to the high end players. The content itself wasn't if that makes sense.

- - - Updated - - -

Conduits come from Dungeons, Raids, and WBs. Korthia dailies don't give those to you. Considering the vast majority of players are not as you call "high end players", the addition of the sockets to your gear will not give you any competitive edge in your lonely dredge of doing all the big bad dailies that you already don't need to do.

Relapses said it all.

I don't think you understand the basics of conduits now if you came to that conclusion.

[Empower]

Conduits come from Dungeons, Raids, and WBs. Korthia dailies don't give those to you. Considering the vast majority of players are not as you call "high end players", the addition of the sockets to your gear will not give you any competitive edge in your lonely dredge of doing all the big bad dailies that you already don't need to do.

Relapses said it all.

Capping conduits only comes from three sources. 1 a week from upgrades in choreghast 5 stars. Hitting glad in pvp rankings, and doing korthia.

It was clearly designed to get raiders doing it.

[KaPe]

The rewards from grinding it were made to cater to the high end players. The content itself wasn't if that makes sense.

Once again, this ignores the fact that rank6 Archivist rep is needed to fully upgrade Korthia items to 233 - which would be far bigger gain for undergeared people than getting better conduits. So the grind was designed for both types of players, with "1%" gaining far less from it - especially since most sockets are occupied by Domination gems. As a clothie with legendary in neck/ring slot, I gain a grand total of 32 secondary stats. And conduits are barely double digits dps/hps upgrades.

'Course, the issue here is that the grind itself is horribly boring and long, with rewards being backloaded - so the "casual" players aren't really rewarded unless they spend months getting that rep. But, once again, this is not "designing for 1%", but rather not thinking the whole system through. Death's Advance rep was fine... ish - bonus rep from daily quests, contracts, 2 quests in the Maw, *all* dailies giving rep. Archivist is garbage that sucked for everyone - including currency cap, early on.

[InflaterMouse]

Once again, this ignores the fact that rank6 Archivist rep is needed to fully upgrade Korthia items to 233 - which would be far bigger gain for undergeared people than getting better conduits. So the grind was designed for both types of players, with "1%" gaining far less from it - especially since most sockets are occupied by Domination gems. As a clothie with legendary in neck/ring slot, I gain a grand total of 32 secondary stats. And conduits are barely double digits dps/hps upgrades.

'Course, the issue here is that the grind itself is horribly boring and long, with rewards being backloaded - so the "casual" players aren't really rewarded unless they spend months getting that rep. But, once again, this is not "designing for 1%", but rather not thinking the whole system through. Death's Advance rep was fine... ish - bonus rep from daily quests, contracts, 2 quests in the Maw, *all* dailies giving rep. Archivist is garbage that sucked for everyone - including currency cap, early on.

I agree with this. Further this is more of a catch up mechanic than anything for new players and alts which happens literally EVERY SINGLE CONTENT DROP EVER. Just like you said, there is still a significant gap between the demographic of players that are doing the dailies. Further the 1% might be farming them for completion or that very small upgrade you gain from the sockets just like you said but the majority of mythic raiding content cleared didn't have that and it was still cleared as is. Even at the 1% level, it isn't mandatory and in most cases probably isn't even needed unless the guild is going to require it (many if not most will).

And I will also reiterate something I mentioned in another post, the majority of people so heavily invested in the conversation of casuals vs. the 1% are all casuals and either argue on the premise they aren't casual intentionally misleading/projecting or honestly believe they aren't a casual and are a part of that 1%. Most of the 1% are most likely pushing glad in arena or farming mythic raids and aren't on here arguing.

[Sinaa]

Sure, but new management needs to start somewhere.

Ion is still the game director..

[Sinx]

People leave for all kinds of reasons. Projecting your opinion on others doesn't make your opinion fact.

People primarily leave a game because they don't enjoy it anymore. It actually is that simple. And sitting there smiling, all happy, while paying to play a beta test of what's been a mediocre game since Legion won't make the game any better. This patch is a start, with signs of better community communication, but a few hair styles and a covenant system that no longer screw over multi spec and alts won't sway fed up players to return. It might keep a few around a little longer, but for the trend to change, they need to hit a bullseye with 9.2 and 10.0.

[Arcalimon]

This patch is a start, with signs of better community communication, but a few hair styles and a covenant system that no longer screw over multi spec and alts won't sway fed up players to return. It might keep a few around a little longer, but for the trend to change, they need to hit a bullseye with 9.2 and 10.0.

I 100% second this.
I have to admit my jaw dropped when I saw that the first news they shared after all that transpired was to introduce new cosmetic options.
I mean, it's not bad to add more options to customize your toon, but I do really believe this should've been one of their least concerns given the current state of the game.

I feel there are far more important things to address first.

[Asrialol]

Pretty much what everyone has said. They're good changes, but they're coming six months too late. If we have to wait an entire year post-launch for beta feedback to be addressed and implemented, it only showcases a poor state of the game and its devs.

Which is why it's usually a good idea to just take 6-12 month breaks. Lots of other games to try out if people feels the need to play something.

[Gemazarus]

I think of this whole situation like this.

You don't like the company that you work for. You are a top performer in the company. You ask for a pay rise but it is denied.
Another company offers you a similar role, but at a higher salary.
You tell your company and they immediately offer you the same salary.

Do you stay?

This patch comes across to me as they hired Desperation Incarnate and put him in charge of the decisions for WoW. And then asked him to write a Patch note for it.

I wonder if Blizz would have made these changes and given the "amazing" 6 month sub "gift" (worthless digital crap) had they not been on the absolute bones of their arses?
I think not. They are trying to imprison you to the game for the next 6 months, and make a lot of money while doing so. PLEASE DON'T TAKE THIS OFFER.


A much, much grander gesture would be to gift a month sub, for free, to the entire playerbase. Taking a hit to the bottom line might have made me think a little different of them. But no. They are still Blizzard. And they are in the absolute shit. And they stink of it.

[Osmeric]

People primarily leave a game because they don't enjoy it anymore.

It was amazing, the change in feeling I had toward the game when SL came out. It was like all the enjoyment just drained away. And with that, I had very little patience for anything annoying I ran into. Previously I would have bulled through the annoying parts to get to the good parts. But there weren't many, if any, good parts. After a few weeks I added up my total net enjoyment and decided the game was a waste of my time and just stopped playing, even with 2 1/2 months left on the sub.

Since then, I've gotten more enjoyment watching the expansion collapse. I think we all could have done without the shitstorm leading to the DFEH lawsuit, though.

[Aleksej89]

ALL the 9.1.5 changes should have been in 9.0 from the start, there were tons of feedback since the start of testing.
Blizz chose to not implement them in a sensible way because they wanted to prolong play/grindtime.
Either that or they are so hideously incompetent that they should all be fired and restricted to working as court jesters.

Some changes are truly moronic like limiting Tank AOE abilities to a certain number of targets, resulting in tanks not being able to inflict constant aggro on all nearby swarming enemies.
They can cap DPS AOE if they want to but Tank AOE must be uncapped so they can reliably hold threat instead of hoping their 5-capped AOE will randomly hit the correct mobs out of 8 nearby.

[Sin of Pride]

Once again, this ignores the fact that rank6 Archivist rep is needed to fully upgrade Korthia items to 233 - which would be far bigger gain for undergeared people than getting better conduits. So the grind was designed for both types of players, with "1%" gaining far less from it - especially since most sockets are occupied by Domination gems. As a clothie with legendary in neck/ring slot, I gain a grand total of 32 secondary stats. And conduits are barely double digits dps/hps upgrades.

'Course, the issue here is that the grind itself is horribly boring and long, with rewards being backloaded - so the "casual" players aren't really rewarded unless they spend months getting that rep. But, once again, this is not "designing for 1%", but rather not thinking the whole system through. Death's Advance rep was fine... ish - bonus rep from daily quests, contracts, 2 quests in the Maw, *all* dailies giving rep. Archivist is garbage that sucked for everyone - including currency cap, early on.

Possibly it doesn't change the fact it was stocked with rewards it never should of had in order to desperately force grinds onto raiders and pvpers.

[Empower]

It was amazing, the change in feeling I had toward the game when SL came out. It was like all the enjoyment just drained away. And with that, I had very little patience for anything annoying I ran into. Previously I would have bulled through the annoying parts to get to the good parts. But there weren't many, if any, good parts. After a few weeks I added up my total net enjoyment and decided the game was a waste of my time and just stopped playing, even with 2 1/2 months left on the sub.

Since then, I've gotten more enjoyment watching the expansion collapse. I think we all could have done without the shitstorm leading to the DFEH lawsuit, though.

I think it's good that you did to be honest. Raiding is what interests me and so far beyond the over reliance on warlock gates I have little to complain about.

Sure the dailies I had to do sucked and they will stop me from playing an alt but I got what I wanted. You should hold out till you get what you want.

[GrinnersGrin]

If I got raped and then they shoved a 10 dollar note up my ass I wouldn't say thankyou

[Ladey Gags]

People today are perpetually angry. It’s a culture thing and nothing will change it. People today will never be genuinely happy, they will never be satisfied, and they will never accept that nothing is perfect. People today will not forgive, they will not move on, and they will not let go of their hatred and resentment. The negative mindset of the collective conscious is too far ingrained in the human psyche at this point to ever expect a positive response to, well, anything. Society is collapsing. Culture is rotting away.

[Cthulhu 2020]

One guy posted about it being bad therefore Blizzard ignored all feedback. This is how the internet works.

Except these issues were all issues brought up by big content creators ON BETA and the players talked about it as well. I realize when you spend 24/7 on WoW and forums you don't have much time for twitch or youtube, but there were definitely conversations and feedback about nearly everything in their ripcord patch.