Social Security question, was asked to start a new thread on it.

[Shadowferal]

Okay, at this point it has to be satire from Machismo, because nobody could REALLY think like this, could they?

Or at least nobody could think like this and be so damn PROUD of themselves that they feel they need to share their thoughts on how to treat people with the rest of the world.

I used to think that of Trump. Every time I thought he couldn't be so vile or stupid...

There was a "thought" that as there are stuff we eat..ingest there are things that can be poisonous to the body. It's obvious there are ideas that are just as poisonous...but to the mind and soul.

[Zan15]

Be prepared.

It's not advice that should be this difficult to accept. At some point, people have to be responsible for themselves, to some degree. My whole position is for avoiding that iceberg, and all the rest to follow... and teach others to pay attention to the fucking icebergs.

So, fund it. Fund it more and more, and watch as people revolt against the government taking more and more of their incomes. As it stands, the contribution is 12.4%, for both employee and employer combined. By my rough napkin math (Covering $2.5t over the that time period, we'd need to increase that rate to 14%, just to deal with the issue over the next 13.5 years. After that, it'd have to go up, again. The problem becomes even worse over the 15 years after that, because of Generation X retiring.

Now, that may not seem like a lot, but it's an extra $700 per adult in the United States, per year. That's not nothing.

Sorry its going to sting. If they just adjusted it a fraction of a fraction of a % every few years like they did the first 30 years it wouldn't be that bad now.

Of course it could stay 6.2% for the employee and increase the employer % to 7.8%.

Its not like they are not going to get the money back. Revolt over what?

Of course that increase can be even smaller if you increase the tax based on income so that the people who can afford it the most take on the burden of the poor.

[Fugus]

@Zan15

What I mentioned to Machismo as solutions were to potentially

1: Raise or remove the exemption cap. Never mentioned increasing the rate at all. He was against it. Because “it increases the burden” neglecting the fact that the increases were for those making $130k+ and was a marginal increase by comparison and…

2. Tax all income as income regardless of source so the top can’t use dividends and capital gains as income to dodge it. He was against this too because it was an increased burden on the rich while neglecting that this was a burden they were intended to share when it was created and they just learned how to dodge it and this would address that.

Which got to his non-solution solution which boiled down to an elaborate way of saying “Fuck Em”.

[Queen of Hamsters]

The only logical outcome to implement Machismo's ideas and appease those that share in his opinions: The Purge.

That'd solve issues with society having to take care of its people...

[Jtbrig7390]

They have years and years to plan for this shit, so let them take care of themselves, or not... their choice.

Spoken like someone who has never been on SS/SSD. We and yes I say we because I'm on SSD don't get to plan for shit. We are barely given enough (doesn't even equal min wage) and usually have to live with others.

So please do tell me how do I PLAN for losing my SSD and that includes all my meds as well. If I try to get a job I lose SSD/Meds (been here done this) and that job doesn't cover the loss because once again wages are shit.

There is no system in place to help someone in my spot try to do better. If you try to get a job you can do you lose everything else, if you just live on SSD you barely make anything and are usually forced to live with others.

I make $795 a month, after bills I don't have shit left over. But by all means feel free to tell me how I can plan ahead and save money that also includes covering my over $1000 a month in meds.

[Shadowferal]

Food prices are at record highs...and will continue to rise. Another reason why no one accepts even $15hr now as a minimum wage.

[Mihalik]

Seriously, if Smith were brought forward to today to see what capitalism has wrought, he'd probably self-identify as a democratic socialist.

Self identified modern "capitalists" are about as followers of Adam Smith as most Christians are followers of Christ.

Big fans of the books, never actually read a page of it tho.

[gondrin]

I think of it a lot like states like Florida and Texas, who didn't take the pandemic seriously, and are getting crushed as a result. Hell, I'm talking about everyone who didn't take it seriously, despite the ample warnings. Now, take those warnings, and push them out a total of 30-40 years, that's how much time people had to prepare for this particular "pandemic." At some point, their actions stop being my responsibility. If a person cannot be bothered, then why should I bother?

This is no different than a lifelong smoker dying of lung cancer. Sure, it sucks, but is it really my burden, much less my fault? I say it is not.

If some anti-vaxxer in Florida gets sick, and his hospital bills stack up in his lap, that should not be my burden to bear.

Thing is, at least with this, someone else will always be stuck with the result unless we tell these people to just go out in the street and die. Hospitals CANNOT turn away people(they are forced to help someone until they are stabilized and can be released) so in turn, when they cannot pay, it directly increases the price for everyone else. The same can be said for theft at a grocery story(or any retailer). It causes a direct effect of increased prices because someone else either is unwilling or unable to pay for something and, in the case with healthcare, is forced to use it because they have no other options.

Insurance rates will go up because of all of this.

The US had this discussion year ago when Social Security came up. It decided it was better to provide for its elderly citizens then either let them work until death or leave them to die because they are infirm and their family is unable to care for them due to being too poor to do anything about it.

[Fugus]

Spoken like someone who has never been on SS/SSD. We and yes I say we because I'm on SSD don't get to plan for shit. We are barely given enough (doesn't even equal min wage) and usually have to live with others.

So please do tell me how do I PLAN for losing my SSD and that includes all my meds as well. If I try to get a job I lose SSD/Meds (been here done this) and that job doesn't cover the loss because once again wages are shit.

There is no system in place to help someone in my spot try to do better. If you try to get a job you can do you lose everything else, if you just live on SSD you barely make anything and are usually forced to live with others.

I make $795 a month, after bills I don't have shit left over. But by all means feel free to tell me how I can plan ahead and save money that also includes covering my over $1000 a month in meds.

I mentioned that to him personally and asked how someone making less than $900 a month was going to handle making less. He couldn't give an answer beyond it not being his problem.

[gondrin]

@Zan15

What I mentioned to Machismo as solutions were to potentially

1: Raise or remove the exemption cap. Never mentioned increasing the rate at all. He was against it. Because “it increases the burden” neglecting the fact that the increases were for those making $130k+ and was a marginal increase by comparison and…

2. Tax all income as income regardless of source so the top can’t use dividends and capital gains as income to dodge it. He was against this too because it was an increased burden on the rich while neglecting that this was a burden they were intended to share when it was created and they just learned how to dodge it and this would address that.

Which got to his non-solution solution which boiled down to an elaborate way of saying “Fuck Em”.

I've been saying for a number of years now that they need to remove the cap PLUS include all forms of income(except 401k and other things that are specifically designed for retirement) to be subject to payroll taxes. It would make SS "solvent" for a long time to come.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I mentioned that to him personally and asked how someone making less than $900 a month was going to handle making less. He couldn't give an answer beyond it not being his problem.

Easy peasy! That person needs to be born to rich parents next time! Sickness and the Capitalist Hellscape "healthcare system"? PAH! Don't get sick! P L A N for it!!


Seriously though, it boggles the mind how some people can be so utterly starved of empathy to suggest that those at the bottom of society just "git gud".

[Fugus]

I've been saying for a number of years now that they need to remove the cap PLUS include all forms of income(except 401k and other things that are specifically designed for retirement) to be subject to payroll taxes. It would make SS "solvent" for a long time to come.

Agreed.

He asked what I considered "Tax all income as income". I told him that taxing dividends paid for stocks and when stocks are sold as income and when they are inherited in someones death, they are treated as income and subject to the exemption cap.

He wasn't a fan of that either. In his view, the rich who do that shouldn't be taxed at all I guess.

Of course, in his view, it is attacking the rich if you put minimum wage at a living wage and taking away THEIR freedoms.

[Jtbrig7390]

I mentioned that to him personally and asked how someone making less than $900 a month was going to handle making less. He couldn't give an answer beyond it not being his problem.

Yep living on this system sucks and what sucks more is people who judge us and have no fucking clue how it is.

[Shadowferal]

For those interested in seeing libertarian regurgitation;

anarchist and libertarian thread

and this closed thread

[Queen of Hamsters]

Yep living on this system sucks and what sucks more is people who judge us and have no fucking clue how it is.

The fact that people have to go through it, in 1st world countries in 2021, is a damned disgrace.

The people judging you are scum, pure and simple. Good little soldiers for the 0.1%.

- - - Updated - - -

For those interested in seeing libertarian regurgitation;

anarchist and libertarian thread

and this closed thread

Anarchists have to be some of the dumbest people around. Holy shit. But my view is colored by the fact that the most outspoken "Anarchist" I know of, would be fine with child sex labour as long as the children weren't "forced"...

[Fugus]

Yep living on this system sucks and what sucks more is people who judge us and have no fucking clue how it is.

I know, I have seen others who lived on it and while I personally haven't lived off Social Security, I was stuck making less than $1,000 a month on plenty of jobs and while fighting the military they forced me to rely on family as they only wanted to pay me about $530 a month for a few years before upping it to $1,200 for the next few years before finally listening to what their doctors had been saying about me for years after 2 spinal surgeries, multiple MRIs, 5+ sets physical therapy, spinal injections, nerve conduction studies and all.

Got nerve damage from the base of spine down both legs to the toes with the right leg being half numb and half paralyzed and hurts constantly and goes limp frequently (The more I try the worse the pain and it going out gets) and I still get people who act like if you can move at all you are 100% healthy enough to do anything.

- - - Updated - - -

For those interested in seeing libertarian regurgitation;

anarchist and libertarian thread

and this closed thread

I still remember opening that second thread myself, they actually infracted me for doing it. But I saved the main thread 20+ pages of derailment. It was worth it.

[Shadowferal]

Anarchists have to be some of the dumbest people around. Holy shit. But my view is colored by the fact that the most outspoken "Anarchist" I know of, would be fine with child sex labour as long as the children weren't "forced"...

Had the same issue with a libertarian who thought children should be seen as adults.

[draynay]

I still remember opening that second thread myself, they actually infracted me for doing it. But I saved the main thread 20+ pages of derailment. It was worth it.

It makes sense, you can't create a new thread every time people arguing with machismo derails an existing one, the internet isn't big enough.

[Fugus]

It makes sense, you can't create a new thread every time people arguing with machismo derails an existing one, the internet isn't big enough.

Why I made sure to include in the description that Machismo agreed and suggested this so they couldn't accuse me of calling him out. This was also a debate worth having.

I also wanted to pull apart a single part of what we were discussing so get his answer on just that part of it so I didn't have to worry about the answer drifting into other areas that didn't answer the question.

[Jtbrig7390]

The fact that people have to go through it, in 1st world countries in 2021, is a damned disgrace.

The people judging you are scum, pure and simple. Good little soldiers for the 0.1%.

Yep and I've grown so tired of it because personally I rather be working. But my body won't let me (As I have learned the hard way) and even if I could good fucken luck finding a job to take care of all my medical needs and pay me a decent wage.

- - - Updated - - -

I know, I have seen others who lived on it and while I personally haven't lived off Social Security, I was stuck making less than $1,000 a month on plenty of jobs and while fighting the military they forced me to rely on family as they only wanted to pay me about $530 a month for a few years before upping it to $1,200 for the next few years before finally listening to what their doctors had been saying about me for years after 2 spinal surgeries, multiple MRIs, 5+ sets physical therapy, spinal injections, nerve conduction studies and all.

Got nerve damage from the base of spine down both legs to the toes with the right leg being half numb and half paralyzed and hurts constantly and goes limp frequently (The more I try the worse the pain and it going out gets) and I still get people who act like if you can move at all you are 100% healthy enough to do anything.

Legit sorry you have those issues mate and ya those types of people get on my fucken nerves so much. My former boss was like that and I called him out on it.