BiS Spreadsheet

[Stanislav]

i suggest more people put Bigbazz on ignore, the guy replies in every single post possible with arrogance and cockiness, doesn't add anything of value except "I know better and you are asking the wrong question" regardless of the topic at hands.

here is a great link that will let you consider what is bis for each phase and how long realistically you will keep it for, should help you a bit better than some idiot saying "get gud, you dont need bis lists"

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Ui_Tk/pubhtml#

go by boss list and see which one might apply, i know p1 had its own sheet but i cant find anything else for p2.

[Bigbazz]

i suggest more people put Bigbazz on ignore, the guy replies in every single post possible with arrogance and cockiness, doesn't add anything of value except "I know better and you are asking the wrong question" regardless of the topic at hands.

here is a great link that will let you consider what is bis for each phase and how long realistically you will keep it for, should help you a bit better than some idiot saying "get gud, you dont need bis lists"

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Ui_Tk/pubhtml#

go by boss list and see which one might apply, i know p1 had its own sheet but i cant find anything else for p2.

Thanks for your opinion and for reading every single one of my posts, I see you're a dedicated fan. When did I hurt your feelings? So here you linked a Sunwell gearing spreadsheet when tier 5 isn't even out. Not to mention that sheet also already shows vastly different item rankings to other sheets out there, proving my point exactly.

So thanks for proving my point I guess.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...f1yZC/pubhtml#

Here is the same persons P2 sheet, since you linked Sunwell. And again it varies greatly from other BIS list sheets out there. I'll point out an obvious example, ranking Rod of the Sun King above Dragonstrike for Warriors, and ranking it as by far the best offhand too. The reality is that Rod isn't the best weapon for either main hand or offhand in T5 Warriors, the proc is also largely insignificant on the offhand with only 4.5% chance to proc, it's not even the best weapon let alone by that margin. It's also listing the current Orc 2nd best offhand (Fel Edged Battleaxe) in all of T4 as worse than several shitty blue options. It's nonsensical.

These BIS lists are just not how you should ever gear a raid, you're just taking someones subjective opinion and running with it, and there are lots of these lists that all vary.

[Finear]

Imagine using loot council in 2021 lol

[Video Games]

Thanks for your opinion and for reading every single one of my posts, I see you're a dedicated fan. When did I hurt your feelings? So here you linked a Sunwell gearing spreadsheet when tier 5 isn't even out. Not to mention that sheet also already shows vastly different item rankings to other sheets out there, proving my point exactly.

So thanks for proving my point I guess.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...f1yZC/pubhtml#

Here is the same persons P2 sheet, since you linked Sunwell. And again it varies greatly from other BIS list sheets out there. I'll point out an obvious example, ranking Rod of the Sun King above Dragonstrike for Warriors, and ranking it as by far the best offhand too. The reality is that Rod isn't the best weapon for either main hand or offhand in T5 Warriors, the proc is also largely insignificant on the offhand with only 4.5% chance to proc, it's not even the best weapon let alone by that margin. It's also listing the current Orc 2nd best offhand (Fel Edged Battleaxe) in all of T4 as worse than several shitty blue options. It's nonsensical.

These BIS lists are just not how you should ever gear a raid, you're just taking someones subjective opinion and running with it, and there are lots of these lists that all vary.

Is talon better for oh then? Cause most lists ive seen has rod as best oh for t5

[Bigbazz]

Is talon better for oh then? Cause most lists ive seen has rod as best oh for t5

Talon or Rod is fine for Humans (they are within margin of error), but I would run Talon because it solves hit rating issues and frees up the rest of your set for more flexibility, on the offhand Rod proc is effectively worthless since it's 4.5% chance to proc on hit, and due to the nature of the spec you'd get more procs during already high rage scenarios (since you will have HS/Cleave queued to eliminate offhand miss chance, or for example during high haste), and less procs during low rage scenarios, which is the opposite of what you'd really want from it.

In T5 onwards you will find yourself naturally playing with more rage than in T4 and wasting a lot of the rage from the weapon procs anyway, not that you will get many procs on the offhand. As an Orc the best offhand is S2 weapon, otherwise Netherbane/Talon should both be marginally ahead of Rod. My guild got Rod from our KT kill on the PTR too so we did a bit of testing, the proc is just bad for Warriors but sure the weapon is decent by nature of being high dps, it's just not "that" decent.

You should give Rod to your Enhance Shamans, since they need weapon syncronisation to put out max numbers, Warriors don't really care about weapon speed, it's not important other than generally having a slower offhand.

[Video Games]

Talon or Rod is fine for Humans (they are within margin of error), but I would run Talon because it solves hit rating issues and frees up the rest of your set for more flexibility, on the offhand Rod proc is effectively worthless since it's 4.5% chance to proc on hit, and due to the nature of the spec you'd get more procs during already high rage scenarios (since you will have HS/Cleave queued to eliminate offhand miss chance, or for example during high haste), and less procs during low rage scenarios, which is the opposite of what you'd really want from it.

In T5 onwards you will find yourself naturally playing with more rage than in T4 and wasting a lot of the rage from the weapon procs anyway, not that you will get many procs on the offhand. As an Orc the best offhand is S2 weapon, otherwise Netherbane/Talon should both be marginally ahead of Rod. My guild got Rod from our KT kill on the PTR too so we did a bit of testing, the proc is just bad for Warriors but sure the weapon is decent by nature of being high dps, it's just not "that" decent.

You should give Rod to your Enhance Shamans, since they need weapon syncronisation to put out max numbers, Warriors don't really care about weapon speed, it's not important other than generally having a slower offhand.

Gotcha. How about t6? I've seen swiftsteel the highest on spreadsheets(not counting pvp since i dont pvp)

[chrisnumbers]

Imagine using loot council in 2021 lol

ikr?
Everything is me me me these days. Get with the times you weirdo teamplayers lmao.

[Bigbazz]

Gotcha. How about t6? I've seen swiftsteel the highest on spreadsheets(not counting pvp since i dont pvp)

Blade of Infamy in T6. Swiftsteel looks really attractive and even in my sheet (I won't link it but it's the Quattro Fury sheet) it comes top in T6, the problem is the sheet kinda can't take context into account and while fast offhands are fine on single target, and can also make heroic strike queuing easier (which is a real dps increase if you can do it, tho to a lesser extent as the expansion goes on) you lose a fair chunk of whirlwind damage and it will eat Flurry procs from the main hand + sweeping strikes charges.

So if you look at for example Swiftsteel at 4000 ap Whirlwind would hit for 523 average on the offhand, Blade of Infamy would hit for 591, it doesn't sound like a lot but it napkin maths out to about 8dps lost on whirlwind casts. And then you consider how that works out on 4 targets, consider offhand autos eating sweeping strikes charges (where the average hit difference is 113 on an auto without AP normalisation) and also consider marginally worse Flurry uptime (fast offhand hits eat more procs relative to procs created by instant attacks) it kinda makes Swiftsteel look less attractive, since it's only marginally "ahead" anyway.

Orcs might use Rising Tide and benefit from the Expertise racial, but the best weapons if you can't get Warglaives will be S3 PvP x2. All the above counts for the Warglaives too, they are just so far ahead on dps and stats and the 2set bonus is just bonkers. Anyway, this stuff goes back to what I was getting called arrogant for earlier, these sheets are only good for eyeballing upgrades, not as some sort of accurate BIS list, there is so much context that is required and that also goes for my sheet.

[Video Games]

Blade of Infamy in T6. Swiftsteel looks really attractive and even in my sheet (I won't link it but it's the Quattro Fury sheet) it comes top in T6, the problem is the sheet kinda can't take context into account and while fast offhands are fine on single target, and can also make heroic strike queuing easier (which is a real dps increase if you can do it, tho to a lesser extent as the expansion goes on) you lose a fair chunk of whirlwind damage and it will eat Flurry procs from the main hand + sweeping strikes charges.

So if you look at for example Swiftsteel at 4000 ap Whirlwind would hit for 523 average on the offhand, Blade of Infamy would hit for 591, it doesn't sound like a lot but it napkin maths out to about 8dps lost on whirlwind casts. And then you consider how that works out on 4 targets, consider offhand autos eating sweeping strikes charges (where the average hit difference is 113 on an auto without AP normalisation) and also consider marginally worse Flurry uptime (fast offhand hits eat more procs relative to procs created by instant attacks) it kinda makes Swiftsteel look less attractive, since it's only marginally "ahead" anyway.

Orcs might use Rising Tide and benefit from the Expertise racial, but the best weapons if you can't get Warglaives will be S3 PvP x2. All the above counts for the Warglaives too, they are just so far ahead on dps and stats and the 2set bonus is just bonkers. Anyway, this stuff goes back to what I was getting called arrogant for earlier, these sheets are only good for eyeballing upgrades, not as some sort of accurate BIS list, there is so much context that is required and that also goes for my sheet.

Neat thanks. I have a chance at glaives since its just me and a rogue, but im not counting on them even dropping since 12 week and 0 dsts in raid is a bad omen for things to come

[Hellobolis]

Sigh.... of course.

It is good to know who profits the most from certain loot. Then they can roll.

And yes we have a few people in the raid who are not that keen on being informed. We keep them anyway because we like them. Sorry about that.

We also provide a list where everyone can enter what the like from each boss. But we still have to double check it.

just ask them "is this bis for you?" before you let them roll on it and the problem should take care of itself. or you can just forego rolling and ask people to explain how big an upgrade it is for them and the people who know their stuff will give you a much more objective answer.

[Bigbazz]

Neat thanks. I have a chance at glaives since its just me and a rogue, but im not counting on them even dropping since 12 week and 0 dsts in raid is a bad omen for things to come

We had DST on our first Gruul kill in week 1, gave it to one of our Rogues for helping gear tanks/grinding matts. Only other one we had was in the alt/pug run they occasionally did and it went to our main tank as nobody else in raid to really take it. None of our regular every raid players got DST, and it actually reached a point where people didn't wanna go to raid and kill Gruul in the main group because they felt the GM playing Hunter was getting the next DST (and deservedly so I would say).

So our guild was prepping hard to do good things in T5, we had cleared T5 on PTR etc and then half the guild quit WoW within a 3 week period. Part of it burnout on T4, Blizz sexual assualt scandall and the general bad vibe around the game/blizz didn't help either. So my guild disbanded this week as the officers didn't wanna have to rebuild again. I guess I gotta try to find a guild, and hopefully one that doesn't do loot council based on every-class/spec bis-lists ^^.

Nether Vortex droprate in T5 was high on the PTR anyway, if it hasn't been adjusted we will all have Dragonstrike pretty quick, week 1 likely. Looking forward to Rod of Sun King drama, I had planned to not roll on it and take whatever dropped (Talon or Netherbane) after the Rogues got their Talons.

[Video Games]

We had DST on our first Gruul kill in week 1, gave it to one of our Rogues for helping gear tanks/grinding matts. Only other one we had was in the alt/pug run they occasionally did and it went to our main tank as nobody else in raid to really take it. None of our regular every raid players got DST, and it actually reached a point where people didn't wanna go to raid and kill Gruul in the main group because they felt the GM playing Hunter was getting the next DST (and deservedly so I would say).

So our guild was prepping hard to do good things in T5, we had cleared T5 on PTR etc and then half the guild quit WoW within a 3 week period. Part of it burnout on T4, Blizz sexual assualt scandall and the general bad vibe around the game/blizz didn't help either. So my guild disbanded this week as the officers didn't wanna have to rebuild again. I guess I gotta try to find a guild, and hopefully one that doesn't do loot council based on every-class/spec bis-lists ^^.

Nether Vortex droprate in T5 was high on the PTR anyway, if it hasn't been adjusted we will all have Dragonstrike pretty quick, week 1 likely. Looking forward to Rod of Sun King drama, I had planned to not roll on it and take whatever dropped (Talon or Netherbane) after the Rogues got their Talons.

Well that sucks. But gl since most guilds don't want a fury warrior, at least on na servers

[Bigbazz]

Well that sucks. But gl since most guilds don't want a fury warrior, at least on na servers

The problem is all the Warriors from Vanilla, so many of the Warriors who continued into TBC are already set, and most guilds have room for only 1. We ran 1 Arms and 1 Fury, I know a lot of guilds doing speedkills are class stacking (locks, hunters, arcane mages etc) with no Fury but seen enough high end performing guilds running 2 Warriors to see there is room, I see Fury Warriors everywhere in Shattrath and no shortage of them equipped with DST too.

That said, WCL shows it's only the 10th most popular spec in raids (Arms even further behind), but there are way more Rogues. Rogues beyond 1 raid spot don't bring anything and offer less dps than a Warrior in most scenarios, so there are potentially plenty of raid spots to pick up with how many players are quitting. My guild didn't die by accident, I'd imagine plenty of other guilds are suffering roster issues and would be more concerned with having reliable players than perfect compositions.

[Finear]

ikr?
Everything is me me me these days. Get with the times you weirdo teamplayers lmao.

this is tbc not a race for world first

[Cempa]

Hi guys,

maybe someone knows if something like this exists anywhere. We will be using a loot council for phase 2.

So we have to know every BiS for every class/spec. And while wowhead has them, they are spread over multiple different sites.

Maybe somone allready created an excle Spreadsheet with all the informations?

Thanks!

I used tbc.wowhead to build ours.

[AeneasBK]

If you habe nothing constructive to say don't say anythign at all...

This is what threads asking for assistance with loot systems will consist of for 90% of the posts. Not answering your question but saying "That's not the way you should do it"

Just ignore all those posts, and look for the 10% of useful ones.