Why the negative response to all the positive changes in 9.1.5

[Sencha]

And this new management working hard to try to make positive change was the ones in charge before launch?

You really believe this 'new management' bullshit? You are very naive.

[Pheraz]

I just wish all the weirdos bashing on WoW will just move away to anime online and annoy the devs there. /wave

[Moonrage]

Blizzard only started fixing these problems to lure back players because so many stopped playing. They knew about these problems but only fixed them once it started to hurt them financially. The playerbase has been asking for these changes for months but Blizzard stubbornly refused to fix them until their wallets started hurting.

This has probably already been said but I'm not gonna read 33+ pages.

[nvaelz]

I dont PVE in this game but it seems like PVE is in a decent place for alts if you're the "adventure and enjoy the game" type of player. Until you get capped and the only way you obtain power is mindlessly doing Korthia dailys for 2 months every day(Something 9.1.5 doesn't improve upon) it's garbage game design.

So how fun is it? You make an alt and you play it to decency and you have to literally play 1 hour per day doing Korthia and the ticking time bomb of next patch coming around the corner, you'll farm your soul away and get to be in that "powerful" place for however the dead patch lasts, because most people don't enjoy that garbage system.

Real fun making an alt knowing all of that. I was thinking about just making an alt and enjoying the game half-assedly casually and just loosely playing it and not minmaxing at all, but it's because most people want to be more powerful than other people, while I want to be equally powerful to other players I don't enjoy this garbage content.

It's always these 5-10-15-20% barriers between you and that guy that plays every day no matter what, and some patches you'll be able to come to that level by playing the game and most patches you'll be time gated by daily/weekly content that truly hinders your scope of progression and if you don't enjoy playing this game like a job you'll not enjoy playing it, unless your thing is being 20% weaker than everyone whom does and farming transmogs is your thing.

The "casual friendly change" of 9.1.5 that would reduce the gap between geared players and new players is 259 vs 233 ilvl but it's fine since mid+ season (which is now) you'll finally be able to farm conquest gear like it's nothing. Too bad this system is garbage in hindsight. Oh thank the lord! I can finally make an alt 3 months after the season is released, what a blessing!

Thanks Blizzard for being so kind! New management I don't believe it. Just a political PR post trying to deter the attention away from their horrible elitist design that take away from the mmorpg feeling and add to the competition against your friends dynamic.

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Sometimes I like to imagine I live in a reality where blizzard wasn't full of fools, listened to feedback and we are all currently waiting for 9.2 enjoying our chosen content without seeing people bitch and moan about how shit choreghast is and how they hate grinding artifact research.

Instead im watching as feedback that should of been acted on over a year ago is finally implemented. Least a lotta devs are being sacked so who knows maybe it will get better. Given how Ion said they want to make world content matter more for character progression though I doubt it.

Ion says he wants to make world content matter more and adds Korthia and sprinkles a bunch of cosmetics around. The world content in SL is only daily quests to farm stygia and catalogued research, and you'll stumble upon some 1% droprate mount or farm it whatever, it's a game you could play on your phone at this point.

[Imurbandaid]

I dont PVE in this game but it seems like PVE is in a decent place for alts if you're the "adventure and enjoy the game" type of player. Until you get capped and the only way you obtain power is mindlessly doing Korthia dailys for 2 months every day(Something 9.1.5 doesn't improve upon) it's garbage game design.

So how fun is it? You make an alt and you play it to decency and you have to literally play 1 hour per day doing Korthia and the ticking time bomb of next patch coming around the corner, you'll farm your soul away and get to be in that "powerful" place for however the dead patch lasts, because most people don't enjoy that garbage system.

Real fun making an alt knowing all of that. I was thinking about just making an alt and enjoying the game half-assedly casually and just loosely playing it and not minmaxing at all, but it's because most people want to be more powerful than other people, while I want to be equally powerful to other players I don't enjoy this garbage content.

It's always these 5-10-15-20% barriers between you and that guy that plays every day no matter what, and some patches you'll be able to come to that level by playing the game and most patches you'll be time gated by daily/weekly content that truly hinders your scope of progression and if you don't enjoy playing this game like a job you'll not enjoy playing it, unless your thing is being 20% weaker than everyone whom does and farming transmogs is your thing.

The "casual friendly change" of 9.1.5 that would reduce the gap between geared players and new players is 259 vs 233 ilvl but it's fine since mid+ season (which is now) you'll finally be able to farm conquest gear like it's nothing. Too bad this system is garbage in hindsight. Oh thank the lord! I can finally make an alt 3 months after the season is released, what a blessing!

Thanks Blizzard for being so kind! New management I don't believe it. Just a political PR post trying to deter the attention away from their horrible elitist design that take away from the mmorpg feeling and add to the competition against your friends dynamic.

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Ion says he wants to make world content matter more and adds Korthia and sprinkles a bunch of cosmetics around. The world content in SL is only daily quests to farm stygia and catalogued research, and you'll stumble upon some 1% droprate mount or farm it whatever, it's a game you could play on your phone at this point.

With most things unlocking for alts when completed on mains with 9.1.5 and the ability to send anima etc etc, why would you ever grind korthia on your alt? Why would you ever NEED to grind korthia on your alts? I have 5 toons rotating through keys ,3-4 doing higher than 15s and only key logging for vaults and such... I only do korthia on my main. I'm confused thats why its an ALT you don't need to do everything you do on your main...

Also, what makes you feel entitled to not be behind (even as little as 5%) as the person that plays all day every day while you are a casual? They clearly put in more effort and earn what they grind for. Even if its a matter of you want to but can't, he will earn what? maybe two more sockets than you? That's life.

[Mardux]

Blizzard fixing their own mistakes are not “good changes”. We expect them to makes a good game. And the overwhelming majority of the game have been against these systems for the beginning. Hence why people have been quitting the game.

Also by this time in Legion and BFA we were already at the .2 and .3 patch so in relation to time it has taken them just as long. And the “it’s not as bad as..” argument is horrible. Just make it good from the. Don’t benchmark the game based on BFA which was a horrible expansion.

We are not getting what we ask for. We ask for the launch of an expansion without unnecessary restrictive overcomplicated systems and Blizzard wont deliver that. The overwhelming majority is asking for this. And people are quitting because Blizzard keep refusing to do what the players want from the beginning.

We are paying them 15$ a month and we are getting almost no content because they waste their time cleaning up their own mess. Should we praise them for fixing issues they are 100% responsible for?

People like you are just drama seekers and not helping anything. You most likely don’t even play the game.

You're not wrong. You're describing every patch since at least WoD's release, including the garbage that was Legion.

[Relapses]

With most things unlocking for alts when completed on mains with 9.1.5 and the ability to send anima etc etc, why would you ever grind korthia on your alt? Why would you ever NEED to grind korthia on your alts? I have 5 toons rotating through keys ,3-4 doing higher than 15s and only key logging for vaults and such... I only do korthia on my main. I'm confused thats why its an ALT you don't need to do everything you do on your main...

Also, what makes you feel entitled to not be behind (even as little as 5%) as the person that plays all day every day while you are a casual? They clearly put in more effort and earn what they grind for. Even if its a matter of you want to but can't, he will earn what? maybe two more sockets than you? That's life.

I have 7 toons that I play somewhat frequently. I only do M+ and there's very little in this game I loathe more than boring repeatable daily content. Needless to say, I haven't felt compelled to do anything in Korthia. So I haven't. No rare farming. No dailies. No Assaults. Not a single fucking thing. 4 of my toons are currently above 2100 Blizzard score. One of those toons is on Chapter 5 of its Covenant campaign. Not a single one of my toons is even remotely close to finishing the Korthia campaign. (I think I have one on Chapter 6 and I only did that because I was bored while waiting for queues to pop after a Covenant swap.) I do not feel underpowered on any of my characters. I do not feel like I'm missing out because I don't have sockets or fully maxed out Conduits. Would it be nice? Sure. But I'm not breaking my back to get any of that stuff (and surely risk burning out); yet here I am completing higher keys every week and feeling rewarded by the time I'm putting into the game. The best part is that I don't have to do any of the bullshit that people love to pretend is mandatory. /shrug

[Mardux]

With most things unlocking for alts when completed on mains with 9.1.5 and the ability to send anima etc etc, why would you ever grind korthia on your alt? Why would you ever NEED to grind korthia on your alts? I have 5 toons rotating through keys ,3-4 doing higher than 15s and only key logging for vaults and such... I only do korthia on my main. I'm confused thats why its an ALT you don't need to do everything you do on your main...

Also, what makes you feel entitled to not be behind (even as little as 5%) as the person that plays all day every day while you are a casual? They clearly put in more effort and earn what they grind for. Even if its a matter of you want to but can't, he will earn what? maybe two more sockets than you? That's life.

why would you ever grind korthia on your alt? Why would you ever NEED to grind korthia on your alts? - For sockets and conduit upgrades? For mounts? For transmog stuff?

I'm confused thats why its an ALT you don't need to do everything you do on your main... - You not wanting a viable alternative choice in toons doesn't mean no one else does either. Or you could try accepting that some people play alternative characters as much as their mains.

Also, what makes you feel entitled to not be behind (even as little as 5%) as the person that plays all day every day while you are a casual? - Nice strawman followed up with a childish attempt at insulting people by calling them casual.

They clearly put in more effort and earn what they grind for. - Yeah, that person that put all of their "effort" into their "main" is definitely putting forth more effort than the person who put the same amount of effort into their main AND effort into trying to have an alternative choice. Your math skills need some work. 100 is less than 100 + 75?

[Godric]

I just want to thank all the players that stood up and unsubbed from this dumpster fire. YOU are the reason the game is getting any change at all. Keep it up, we may just see Blizzard have to try.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

If you actually think that Blizzard is intentionally making the game worse for specifically the 1% of the highest 1% of the playerbase then there isn't any point in continuing this discussion. That's one of the most insane things I've ever seen anybody ever suggest.

then explain why not a single bis conduit of my main and my 2 split alts drops from the raid? they have the data they know what conduits to gate behind rank 6 korthia rep they know mythic raider will grind them.

is it all coincidence? what about sockets why cant pvp/m+/raider get sockets for valor sygian embers honor? its fine to not care about your logs but ppl like me care about performace and parses i want to be one if not the best of my spec and i want my raid counduits to drop in the fucking raid

[Relapses]

then explain why not a single bis conduit of my main and my 2 split alts drops from the raid? they have the data they know what conduits to gate behind rank 6 korthia rep they know mythic raider will grind them.
is it all coincidence? what about sockets why cant pvp/m+/raider get sockets for valor sygian embers honor? its fine to not care about your logs but ppl like me care about performace and parses i want to be one if not the best of my spec and i want my raid counduits to drop in the fucking raid

I suppose I should have clarified: It's a symptom but not the cause. Blizzard just wants to give casual players something meaningful to do, raiders unfortunately end up feeling compelled to complete content that isn't necessarily developed specifically in spite of them. I've been a Mythic raider in the past and I know the exact mentality you're referring to. FWIW, I do think Blizzard should avoid making systems like this. They should keep raiding restricted to raiding and keep casual content casual. Moreover, because of the way it works Korthia end up feeling more punishing than some of the other "optional mandatory" grinds that have existed in the past. (See also: AP.)

[Elias1337]

I suppose I should have clarified: It's a symptom but not the cause. Blizzard just wants to give casual players something meaningful to do, raiders unfortunately end up feeling compelled to complete content that isn't necessarily developed specifically in spite of them. I've been a Mythic raider in the past and I know the exact mentality you're referring to. FWIW, I do think Blizzard should avoid making systems like this. They should keep raiding restricted to raiding and keep casual content casual. Moreover, because of the way it works Korthia end up feeling more punishing than some of the other "optional mandatory" grinds that have existed in the past. (See also: AP.)

Btw current casual content isnt casual content. I am casual and as many other casuals i sure do not enyoj wow faceroll casual content what requares 0 brain power. Maybe if world content would actualy had any sort of gamelay and egagement it could be fun playing in it. But looks like its designed for 80y old grandmas what can barely turn on their phone. Its joke.

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You're not wrong. You're describing every patch since at least WoD's release, including the garbage that was Legion.

Yes becouse people cried to have more acesaability to end game. And current systems are nothing but symptoms of making game too acessible. Remove borrowed power systems? How exactly people plan to keep casuals playing? Oh wait you wont. Becouse without those systems you will get WoD 2.0 and nothing els.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

These people don't give a damn about miniscule upgrades from conduits and have

those 1,8k dps i gained with the 3 conduits that i have upgraded are surely miniscule, high cope here lol

[KaPe]

those 1,8k dps i gained with the 3 conduits that i have upgraded are surely miniscule, high cope here lol

So, you gained almost 2k dps from upgrading conduits by 26ilvls. Following this math, you should have gained another 2k from additional renown ranks, which also bump conduits by 2 ranks. (we can't have all three yet, but it will happen eventually)

I don't know what kind of sims you are using, but this sounds like total bullshit. If a spec could get 4k dps upgrade just like that, it would either be horribly undertuned without conduits, or horribly overpowered after this upgrade.

E: Or, what's more likely, you're including baseline dps buff from conduits and "forgetting" that a single extra rank doesn't give you anywhere near as much. So, it's probably going from something like 1600 to 1800 (and probably less), which doesn't sound nearly as impressive.

[Accendor]

"Karens will be karens" is the reason people are upset.

The people raging and whining every... single...day.... crying over blizzard are LITERALLY getting everything they ask for and they are STILL crying.

WAY more than any x.x.5 patch ever and more systems changes than any x.x patch ever. Also actual content in a x.x.5 patch (legion m+).

It's being done earlier than bfa and legion where restrictions were let up in x.2 or x.3.

It is simply people whining for validation.

Just need to point out that legion m+ is no new content, its old content made available again.
That is ok and cool, but its not new content. Which is also fine, because a .5 patch apparently does not bring new content anymore but mostly system changes and balancing upgrades. All of that is fine, just don't try to sell it as new content, because it's not new content.

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With most things unlocking for alts when completed on mains with 9.1.5 and the ability to send anima etc etc, why would you ever grind korthia on your alt? Why would you ever NEED to grind korthia on your alts? I have 5 toons rotating through keys ,3-4 doing higher than 15s and only key logging for vaults and such... I only do korthia on my main. I'm confused thats why its an ALT you don't need to do everything you do on your main...

Also, what makes you feel entitled to not be behind (even as little as 5%) as the person that plays all day every day while you are a casual? They clearly put in more effort and earn what they grind for. Even if its a matter of you want to but can't, he will earn what? maybe two more sockets than you? That's life.

Not defending or taking sides here, but the reason for Korthia is obv. the sockets that make a huge difference.
Again, not taking sides, just answering your question.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

So, you gained almost 2k dps from upgrading conduits by 26ilvls. Following this math, you should have gained another 2k from additional renown ranks, which also bump conduits by 2 ranks. (we can't have all three yet, but it will happen eventually)

I don't know what kind of sims you are using, but this sounds like total bullshit. If a spec could get 4k dps upgrade just like that, it would either be horribly undertuned without conduits, or horribly overpowered after this upgrade.

E: Or, what's more likely, you're including baseline dps buff from conduits and "forgetting" that a single extra rank doesn't give you anywhere near as much. So, it's probably going from something like 1600 to 1800 (and probably less), which doesn't sound nearly as impressive.

one IP rank gives 340-400 dps one IB gives 200-220 dps one rank of SM gives 190-210 dps and 80 form a socket (it gehts higher the more haste i get) keep siming your patchwork 5 min and parse green custom apls are for noobs like me :^)

[KaPe]

Not defending or taking sides here, but the reason for Korthia is obv. the sockets that make a huge difference.
Again, not taking sides, just answering your question.

Not this patch. Domination sockets are much more important and, depending on armor type and legendary slot, can make it so that you only miss two normal sockets. At that point, it's only 32 secondary stats which isn't "huge difference" anymore.

one IP rank gives 340-400 dps one IB gives 200-220 dps one rank of SM gives 190-210 dps and 80 form a socket (it gehts higher the more haste i get) keep siming your patchwork 5 min and parse green custom apls are for noobs like me :^)

A single conduit gives you 5% dps increase per rank. "Custom sims" or not, that either doesn't happen or is an extreme anomaly.

[Snowfunk]

I'm very happy for the changes. It's a good start.

But at this point, they are just panicking to salvage the expansion.

Everything they are trying to fix, people told them about in the beta.
They are not giving us what we want, they are putting out fires.

[bledgor]

one IP rank gives 340-400 dps one IB gives 200-220 dps one rank of SM gives 190-210 dps and 80 form a socket (it gehts higher the more haste i get) keep siming your patchwork 5 min and parse green custom apls are for noobs like me :^)

Going to have to see these sims.Icebite is roughly a .7% damage increase from 226 to 278, 52 ilvls/4 ranks worth, so it being 200 dps one rank smells like bullshit. Siphoned Malice is a .64% increase over 52/4 ranks so again smells like lies.

The only one that scales dramatically is icy propulsion which is roughly a 1.5% damage increase per a rank, which will still require you to do 35-40k to get 340-400 damage from increasing it one rank.

Yes these are ST numbers, but considering icebite can only double the value in infinite AoE it would still only be a 1.4% increase for 4 ranks or a at best .35% increase per a rank. Yet wait if you are doing AoE icelance falls in value because as more targets enter the equation more globals will be spent on blizzard and frost orb, so even with more finger procs it won't dramatically increase the damage you do. At best you would get maybe 100-150 from it, half the value in the best circumstance that you toss out.

Also lets face it, most people only care about raiding/more single target values compared to M+ values, which can vary greatly, as mobs are more likely to be moved out of blizzard, have different hp values/die leaving you with less AoE, and between pack timings can lose a portion of there value ( in the case of icy propulsion). Also if we are doing AoE pretty sure ice runs unrelenting cold not siphoned malice, which again can gain/lose value depending on if the tank has the mob in the orb all the time and your ability to get the most value out of orb (in even siphoned malice value it will have to content with the fact you wont get to mirrors on CD perfectly, as some packs it wont be lined up with perfectly).

So maybe in your "perfect" AoE sim world you get some crazy value, but here in the game, in actual logs and meters it will be more likely at half the value, at best 70-80% of the value.

[MrFawlty]

HAHAHAHA, please tell me you actually belive that. Fans constantly spam nonesense and bullshit. They know JACKSHIT.

Well you have that right, Ive read some of your posts.

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NO they shouldn't have. IT was fine the way it was. Players have simply gotten worse and worse with their entitlement and have ruined the game. Doing it now is fine as things should be made easeier now that everyone has been through the system once.

Player entitlement is what is truly destroying this once great game.

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Who said Blizzardf asked that second question? They don't ahve to because they know players are entitled and are automatically going to complain when they can't have everything right way. That is what makes it easier to ignore. And they were absolutely right in that first quote.

What have these changes got to do with player entitlement?