You are being carried...

[Ielenia]

[you make it sound like it's either be like top players or don't m+
people like always exaggerate things, it really shows you don't know shit

It's what the OP's argument says, though. "If you're not doing your part to help the group, you're being a burden".

[ohwell]

Haven’t raided in some years but In my experience it’s the people who go out of there way to get every little improvement and whine at others to do the same who get carried by the more mechanically competent players.

Mabye world first raids are filled with people who are equally mechanically competent and pushing for every edge but I wouldn’t know and I can’t say I’ve ever seen a raid like that in the time I raided from wrath-mop.

Your experience is faulty then as someone who is running ALL modes of content by definition should be more competent players as running m+, pvp, and raiding doesn't end up being jack of all trades and master of none, but should pretty much be jack of all trades as you can't just raid 24/7. So, no, the people who are doing as the OP said will typically be the ones who are more mechanically competent as well.

[crazyman2]

Group/guild mentality.

If you think you're carrying guildmates and the officers don't want to do anything about it, quit the guild and go find some like-minded players.
Votekick the players you don't like, and leave if it gets rejected. Kill the keys when people are shitty (have fun getting your weekly done)

Just don't act like that mentality is the "right" way to play the game. Some of us have a life outside of the game and literally don't have time to run 10 m+ dungeons every week, on top of raiding and raid prepping. And if we get kicked for it, we'll go find some like-minded people too.

[kiramon]

Need to realize that the game doesn’t exist outside your ecosystem, much like life. If you only play with your guild, it doesnt matter how well anyone else does or how much you farm. It matters how your guild does as a whole and whether you want to try to do better in that subset.

It’s like life. What Some random person in Alaska makes doesn’t affect you or what you makes, assuming there’s no direct or indirect link between you, so why would you care?

Philosophically, nothing exists until it exists to you, because you are the focus of your entire existence, as is everyone else to theirs. So stop caring about what other people do or can do and worry about yourself.

[Dorothyjean]

Haven’t raided in some years but In my experience it’s the people who go out of there way to get every little improvement and whine at others to do the same who get carried by the more mechanically competent players.

Edit: I only raid at a Heroic level, fixed this.

Or they are the ones who play in the guild for like 4-5 weeks complaining every tuesday about how they get nothing good from the vault and then quit the guild and/or don't come back to play and finish the raid.

I am one of those people who just raids and I do it 7 days a week on multiple characters and do not enjoy M+ but that being said I can keep up with my guildmates who do M+ quite a bit but they do not seem to be mechanically good at the raids. They seem to just gear up to overpower and simplify raiding while people who focus on the mechanics and doing good dps/hps are the better players.

The people who complain like that almost always are the ones who get free food/flask from the guild and do not use DPS pots or heavy armor kits because "everyone else sucks in this guild" kind of attitude.

[ohwell]

The actual dungeon, maybe. But unless you're a tank or healer, getting into a group can easily take again that long, if not longer.

If you're using your own key, no.

[MrLachyG]

So basically if you aren't a bum that plays wow all day and has no job you're a burden ...... riiiiiiight. On the other hand though if you are a jobless bum playing wow all day you're a burden to society. I wonder which matters more.

I’m both, do I win?

[ohwell]

Or they are the ones who play in the guild for like 4-5 weeks complaining every tuesday about how they get nothing good from the vault and then quit the guild and/or don't come back to play and finish the raid.

I am one of those people who just raids and I do it 7 days a week on multiple characters and do not enjoy M+ but that being said I can keep up with my guildmates who do M+ quite a bit but they do not seem to be mechanically good at the raids. They seem to just gear up to overpower and simplify raiding while people who focus on the mechanics and doing good dps/hps are the better players.

The people who complain like that almost always are the ones who get free food/flask from the guild and do not use DPS pots or heavy armor kits because "everyone else sucks in this guild" kind of attitude.

Just like the guy you quoted, your assertion shouldn't and probably isn't the typical case as you just seem to have something against those people simply by your statement that they're just "overpowering" it which doesn't happen with m+ until way later in the season. So it really seems like by not doing it you also have no real idea about it while also asserting that they're bad at mechanics when realistically speaking they should be better than you because they do more variety of things. The only reason you MIGHT be better at raiding(and possibly only the specific raid mechanics not character mechanics) is that you do it on multiple characters. However, they probably know their multiple characters better than you know yours by actually doing more content.

- - - Updated - - -

Really? Playing a video game for fun takes serious dedication? I'd hate to be in your guild dude.



And the game is worse for it.

Way to misconstrue something. You can easily play the game at the lowest levels without dedication and you know that was exactly what was being said. Also people do have fun with serious dedication so nice false equivalency

[Dorothyjean]

Just like the guy you quoted, your assertion shouldn't and probably isn't the typical case as you just seem to have something against those people simply by your statement that they're just "overpowering" it which doesn't happen with m+ until way later in the season. So it really seems like by not doing it you also have no real idea about it while also asserting that they're bad at mechanics when realistically speaking they should be better than you because they do more variety of things. The only reason you MIGHT be better at raiding(and possibly only the specific raid mechanics not character mechanics) is that you do it on multiple characters. However, they probably know their multiple characters better than you know yours by actually doing more content.

That's my bad I should clarify the 'overpower' part is because I stick to primarily Heroic raiding with a small dabble into Mythic. My fault there.

Realistically though and this is just from my experience I am much better at mechanics because all I do is raiding at a Heroic level. I don't do M+ at all so I don't need to remember what mob does what, which one needs to be interrupted, where to go and I can focus on memorizing the mechanics for the raid on 3-4 different characters throughout the week.

As for the raiding and how well they are, just from my experience, is still in my favor when it comes to performing. I'm not saying they are bad and the difference is minimal but I can typically keep up with people 5-10 ilvls above me during the raid on any of my characters. I also take raiding seriously also where I make sure I have everything and I blow DPS pots on everything including normal and bosses we have on farm because that's how I feel raiding should be.

Obviously I raid with some people who are really good at their characters and outperform me but that is to be expected but overall the only time I really get outperformed is at the beginning of the raid when they have 2-4 M+15s under their belt and I'm still running on Heroic gear but by the end of the raid I easily keep up with anyone in the raids/guilds I am in with just Heroic gear because, like I said, ALL I do is heroic raid. It all becomes muscle memory to me and perfect when to do what and when to do it.

Been raiding a long time since TBC and have raided as every class/spec since but all I enjoy is raiding. I don't mind doing dungeons to get into raiding but just for myself I do not enjoy M+. Even when Tazavesh came out... I've still never been in there.

Don't read into who or what I am either... you'll be disappointed but I did correct what I said at the beginning there that I stick to Heroic raiding.

[arkanon]

Votekick the players you don't like, and leave if it gets rejected.

2021 ladies and gentlemen!!!

[Vishy]

Lol i'll continue to raid log and do other things that are more fun then sit for hours in meaningless M+, while you continue to be mad about it.

[Biomega]

If you're using your own key, no.

Even if you're using your own key, you don't just get to chain dungeons with zero downtime unless you got tank and/or healer covered. And even as a tank/healer it takes a while to get things going.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Edit: I only raid at a Heroic level, fixed this.

Or they are the ones who play in the guild for like 4-5 weeks complaining every tuesday about how they get nothing good from the vault and then quit the guild and/or don't come back to play and finish the raid.

I am one of those people who just raids and I do it 7 days a week on multiple characters and do not enjoy M+ but that being said I can keep up with my guildmates who do M+ quite a bit but they do not seem to be mechanically good at the raids. They seem to just gear up to overpower and simplify raiding while people who focus on the mechanics and doing good dps/hps are the better players.

The people who complain like that almost always are the ones who get free food/flask from the guild and do not use DPS pots or heavy armor kits because "everyone else sucks in this guild" kind of attitude.

Ya I did raid on a heroic level when heroic was the equivalent of mythic.

As to the vault that wasn’t a thing in wrath-mop and people who were more mechanically competent tended to get gear first as even if they started progress worse off they would still out preform those who get every thing they could but would die more or were worse at maximizing up time.

- - - Updated - - -

Your experience is faulty then as someone who is running ALL modes of content by definition should be more competent players as running m+, pvp, and raiding doesn't end up being jack of all trades and master of none, but should pretty much be jack of all trades as you can't just raid 24/7. So, no, the people who are doing as the OP said will typically be the ones who are more mechanically competent as well.

Mabye now with mythic+ people do better but back in wrath-mop when there was no challenging content outside of raiding doing daily’s or heroic scenarios or farming heroics for one reason or another didn’t give you any mastery. If any thing it was a net negative in skill as you could just blow throw any content without any need of proper play if you were raid geared.

[vsb]

This is honestly a really sad and elitist take. You should stop playing the game if you seriously think a video game
requires "serious dedication."

I'm talking about serious raiding. If you're doing normals and eventually heroics, you can raid log.

[ThatsOurEric]

and this is where wow has died the most, there is nothing to get seriously dedicated about, everything is handed to you for free with little/no effort

Except the times where it isn't, and in those cases, the "work" is based on unfun grinds based heavily on broken RNG where the "work"
can be unrewarded constantly. And if there are results, they're often extremely poor (doing the 5 mythics weekly and getting the same
item piece with the same item level multiple times).

Or things are heavily time gated with minimal rewards in order to artificially prevent progression at the player's discretion.

So you have no idea what you're talking about if you think things are just "freely given" with no effort.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I can only think of one perfect response to this and it can be summed up as "no u"

[Chriisto]

Somebody didn't like my post and apparently did everything they could to have me banned for 3 days. I think I know who it was and, ironically, they were also banned. A lot of people have chosen to take this thread as a personal attack and given the subject matter, I'm pretty sure I know why. When I started playing the game in 2004, you could not just raid log and be carried by the players who were willing to put in the effort. There were only a small handful of guilds actually able to push content in Vanilla WoW and if you wanted a raid spot, you had to prove yourself.

Unfortunately, we now live in the 'everyone gets a trophy' age and the people playing today have been told that no matter how good they are or how much effort they put in that they are still special and deserve be on the team! This is not reality. When you eventually enter the work force for the first time, you will come to understand this.

We are all playing to have fun. For many high end raiders, having fun comes from pushing content. Players who demand to be carried because they pay their sub each month but refuse to make time to improve their characters are extremely selfish in my opinion. This mentality is just a response to being raised in the climate described above. I work full time, play basketball twice a week, I have a wife and two children and I still find the time to raid and do at least 4 M+ each week. Why do I do this? Because I care about progression and doing my part for my guild. If I couldn't pull my own weight in our raids then I would just not raid.

This will make sense to some of you and sound ridiculous to others. Yes, everyone gets a trophy in this day and age but only a few deserve one apparently.

[Sughs]

I have had problems with two different guilds because of this, one didn't do M+ at all and was always behind on gear compared to me, the other spammed M+ everyday and was way ahead of me, I think it's just hard to find a guild with the exact commitment as yourself.

[GMZohar1]

If you have one more piece of PvP gear than someone else cause they missed 1 week then you are carrying them

[confety]

WRONG

I never do m+ and gearing through heroic raid only i could be top 3 or top 4 dps in my raid with a damn outlaw rogue from tomb of sargeras until nathria with only the +15 spam andies with top 5 ranking warcraftlogs classes ahead of me.

It doesnt matter how much ilvl and bis stats you have if you cant 1234 properly.

Solution: raid with friends, or with a raid without m+ spam req or just pug normal, stop giving a fuck and have fun.