The Night Elves/borne discussion thread

[TrueHorde]

https://twitter.com/Kael_319/status/1433851738335887361

still missing the shiny mana hands

we also need these mana-style skin colors
https://twitter.com/Wei0410/status/1433859271028998148

[Alanar]

I agree with all you say.

The thing is the old nightborne npc models are based on the old night elf models, they don't have a version for the new ones without having to build from scratch like they did for Kul'tirans.

So they did exactly the same, use the night elf male model update from 6.0 and thin it down, which is what the Nightborne always was anyway. All the erros and nasties from the nelf model carried over.

Very annoying, at least he doesn't stand so derpy with the adjusted idle stand.

But still yes, arcane hair and mana glowing hands would be a nice touch to add.

Yea, this is true. The night elf issues are exactly the same in terms of proportions, hands etc.
Fixing the issues of it being just a slimmed down version is going to be to much to ask I presume, but with a few adjustments they could come a long way, even slimming down the hands and ears a bit would but a huge improvement. The eyes just need work, but I don't think it will happen.

[Moonrage]

nice

These look great, female night elves should also get narrow eyes as an option. Makes them look way more mystical.

[Tanaria]

I absolutely love these new female options. The golden and purple jewelry is such a beautiful contrast of Nightborne-feels and Blood Elf-feels.

I love the classic Nightborne colours as well, like the silver and purple.

I also love some of those green skin tones. Makes me think that Nightborne Warlocks and the use of fel, is something that is quite well used amongst the Shal'dorei, since joining the Horde. It's not "Felborne", but some of those darker green skin tones and darker green hair colours deffo ring "Nightborne Warlock" to me.

[Mungho]

They are real and live on the PTR

No, those are the acutal thing, you get these in the PTR.

They look wonderful! Just want I needed!

[Progenitor Aquarius]

They could add 'change ear option' to make them smaller, because they are so big.

[ravenmoon]

They could add 'change ear option' to make them smaller, because they are so big.

Yes, I'm hoping for night elf ears too, like Elisande and Aluriel

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

They could add 'change ear option' to make them smaller, because they are so big.

IMO they should have ear size options like other races TBH. Things I'd like to see added:

-Ear Sizes
-Eye Colors
-Glow Hands

And change the scowl on the more youthful face. So weird they give the only face that looks less than 100 the snarl lol.

[Alanar]

These look great, female night elves should also get narrow eyes as an option. Makes them look way more mystical.

No hard feelings, but Its that one thing that seperates them, I dont think night elves should have this. As you can see it changed their whole appearance and alot closer to their npc counterparts.

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IMO they should have ear size options like other races TBH. Things I'd like to see added:

-Ear Sizes
-Eye Colors
-Glow Hands

And change the scowl on the more youthful face. So weird they give the only face that looks less than 100 the snarl lol.

Yes and dont forget the mana hair and an option to darken the tats, so we could see them more often.
The faces look off, its not about youthfulness to me, its more about the general shape of it. As you can see on my post last page with pictures you see that the male face is entirely different. Much more narrow etc. Some of the proportions could also use a few tweaks.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

No hard feelings, but Its that one thing that seperates them, I dont think night elves should have this. As you can see it changed their whole appearance and alot closer to their npc counterparts.

I kinda disagree; IMO all races should have eye shapes, it's kinda wild this is seen as a Nightborne thing when all elves, and all races, should have more feature variance.

Yes and dont forget the mana hair and an option to darken the tats, so we could see them more often.
The faces look off, its not about youthfulness to me, its more about the general shape of it. As you can see on my post last page with pictures you see that the male face is entirely different. Much more narrow etc. Some of the proportions could also use a few tweaks.

At this point asking for NB to look like the NPC model feels fraught. I just don't see it happening; it's the same issue when the races were revamped to HD models; NB faces were way more simplistic and they just don't seem able to be replicated as is (IMO its the issue of using the NEM model as base and changing it too much would make the animations fall out of bounds, thus need to be retweaked and so on and so forth) so I'd rather than the selection of faces we do get is varied.

But if the character revamp taught us anything, is that a lot of things won't translate accurately on a higher poligon model, and in the case of the NB, specially so since they are trying to rework an already rigged NE face :/

[ravenmoon]

I kinda disagree; IMO all races should have eye shapes, it's kinda wild this is seen as a Nightborne thing when all elves, and all races, should have more feature variance.




At this point asking for NB to look like the NPC model feels fraught. I just don't see it happening; it's the same issue when the races were revamped to HD models; NB faces were way more simplistic and they just don't seem able to be replicated as is (IMO its the issue of using the NEM model as base and changing it too much would make the animations fall out of bounds, thus need to be retweaked and so on and so forth) so I'd rather than the selection of faces we do get is varied.

But if the character revamp taught us anything, is that a lot of things won't translate accurately on a higher poligon model, and in the case of the NB, specially so since they are trying to rework an already rigged NE face :/

Although you blocked/ignored me. I will comment that I’ve been asking for face revamps for night elves and Nightborne from the start.

this is particularly pertinent to NElf/borne males. As the females actually I think can look pretty decent.

but face revamps outside humans hasn’t happened for anyone.

also not everyone needs.

imo NElf/borne males have the biggest face issues not matching their fantasy and race. They look far better in cinematics and box arts than in game models. Which isn’t the same for females and many other races.

This is

[Rhlor]

https://twitter.com/Kael_319/status/1433851738335887361

still missing the shiny mana hands

we also need these mana-style skin colors
https://twitter.com/Wei0410/status/1433859271028998148

I think the most disappointing is the lack of shiny hands. it seems that the nightborne will continue to be inferior to its npc version

[Alanar]

I kinda disagree; IMO all races should have eye shapes, it's kinda wild this is seen as a Nightborne thing when all elves, and all races, should have more feature variance.

Sure, every race could have unique features, but on topic of nightborne eyes. Like I said its that unique thing that seperates them and is unique to the nightborne.

As much as I agree on eye shape sounds like something every race should have such as eye colors etc, but In this case Its a hard no, because its the one thing that makes Nightborne, Nightborne and nightborne fans have been asking for this for a while purely cus it defines them. No need to share this, night elves have these markings for example. That should stay there and nightborne should not get this imo.

I mean lets be honest.. Lets not turn this normal discussion or thread into a void elf wanna be thread where we need everything what the other elf has. Void elves are hyjacking every thread right now and they get alot of hate. Lets take silvermoon and high elf paladin/void elf paladin threads. Its getting rediculous. I hope blizz will see this and be smart to keep certain traits unique and dont listen to these silly requests.

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I think the most disappointing is the lack of shiny hands. it seems that the nightborne will continue to be inferior to its npc version

Lets hope this happends.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Sure, every race could have unique features, but on topic of nightborne eyes. Like I said its that unique thing that seperates them and is unique to the nightborne.

As much as I agree on eye shape sounds like something every race should have such as eye colors etc, but In this case Its a hard no, because its the one thing that makes Nightborne, Nightborne and nightborne fans have been asking for this for a while purely cus it defines them. No need to share this, night elves have these markings for example. That should stay there and nightborne should not get this imo.

I mean lets be honest.. Lets not turn this normal discussion or thread into a void elf wanna be thread where we need everything what the other elf has. Void elves are hyjacking every thread right now and they get alot of hate. Lets take silvermoon and high elf paladin/void elf paladin threads. Its getting rediculous. I hope blizz will see this and be smart to keep certain traits unique and dont listen to these silly requests.

Nah, this isn't a VE hijacking post, I just named checked them, so no need to derail. One does not believe that customization options should be overall shared because one just wants HE's. Come on.

If you say stuff like "NB need to have unique eye shapes" basically your are against night elves getting anything similar, and IMO player choice > the need to feel unique, it plays on the fallacy that races are defined by certain attributes, as if the eye shape makes the Nightborne to the point no one else should have them. I'm just not gonna support any "X race only should have this unique feature" when there's not a lore reason behind it.

And fighting over "eye shape should be unique" just betrays how limited facial features already are in WoW.

[Alanar]

Nah, this isn't a VE hijacking post, I just named checked them, so no need to derail. One does not believe that customization options should be overall shared because one just wants HE's. Come on.

If you say stuff like "NB need to have unique eye shapes" basically your are against night elves getting anything similar, and IMO player choice > the need to feel unique, it plays on the fallacy that races are defined by certain attributes, as if the eye shape makes the Nightborne to the point no one else should have them. I'm just not gonna support any "X race only should have this unique feature" when there's not a lore reason behind it.

And fighting over "eye shape should be unique" just betrays how limited facial features already are in WoW.

And you know this.. so why are you acting like it's not a big deal and bring forth a pointless argument about night elves, please leave that bs out of here. I don't why you act suprised.. you know it defines the Nightborne as everyone already pointed out with multiple pictures and side by sides over the years including myself... and then there is you who say it should be for all elves, Nah man, hard pass for now.

Maybe in a far away future when the feature is heavily expanded, but as you clearly know we are not there yet and it's all still extremely limited. With that said, for now these certain things ( in this case nightbone npc eyes)are unqiue to that race. So this is a no discussion imo and should stay where they are. Not every option is shared among all, it should be like that imo. You clearly dissagree, but no one is fighting over it.. that is just you now. Don't ruin the fun for nb fans as we finnaly got them (eyes). Like you, were celebrating in the high elf thread because off high elf rp.

And the hyjacking is in litterally every thread on the officials.. it's actually pethatic., talking about derailing. Not eveything is about high elves and void elves. I don't give a shit about them. So lets not go that direction please.

[Hellspawn]

Narrow eyes are not unique to Nightborn, if you look at the Azshara Nightelf model, she got it too. Also, I think the old Night Elf model got some variation with more narrow eyes as well.

I think it would be a great addition, not just for Night Elfs, would be cool for the races as well. It just gives a nicely different vibe to the character.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

And you know this.. so why are you acting like it's not a big deal and bring forth a pointless argument about night elves, please leave that bs out of here. I don't why you act suprised.. you know it defines the Nightborne as everyone already pointed out with multiple pictures and side by sides over the years including myself... and then there is you who say it should be for all elves, Nah man, hard pass for now.

Maybe in a far away future when the feature is heavily expanded, but as you clearly know we are not there yet and it's all still extremely limited. With that said, for now these certain things ( in this case nightbone npc eyes)are unqiue to that race. So this is a no discussion imo and should stay where they are. Not every option is shared among all, it should be like that imo. You clearly dissagree, but no one is fighting over it.. that is just you now. Don't ruin the fun for nb fans as we finnaly got them (eyes). Like you, were celebrating in the high elf thread because off high elf rp.

And the hyjacking is in litterally every thread on the officials.. it's actually pethatic., talking about derailing. Not eveything is about high elves and void elves. I don't give a shit about them. So lets not go that direction please.

Then let's not go there.

But about night elves and nightborne, are you telling me the... "The Night Elves/borne discussion thread" Is not the place to have a discussion about eye shapes? You don't have to talk about it if you don't want to, but this is kinda THE place to have this discussion.

And as I said, personally, if I am an advocate for expanding customization across the board, I am not going to be "but let's keep this exclusive" when there's not a strong lore reason for it. So "but the NB have to have an unique eye shape" by itself doesn't cut it for me, just like I advocate for giving NB NE ear options, since Elisande and Alluriel also have them.

This is the NE/NB thread, so that's what I am talking about. Feel free to disengage wherever you want.

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Narrow eyes are not unique to Nightborn, if you look at the Azshara Nightelf model, she got it too. Also, I think the old Night Elf model got some variation with more narrow eyes as well.

I think it would be a great addition, not just for Night Elfs, would be cool for the races as well. It just gives a nicely different vibe to the character.

IMO it's the sort of variation that doesn't make sense in the lore to be exclusively nightborne, Azshara's eyes do look more like NB ones.

So unless there's a lore reason for why NB have squintier eyes, It's not the sort of thing that should be exclusive to them. Just like we have seen NB with regular NE ears.

[Alanar]

Then let's not go there.

But about night elves and nightborne, are you telling me the... "The Night Elves/borne discussion thread" Is not the place to have a discussion about eye shapes? You don't have to talk about it if you don't want to, but this is kinda THE place to have this discussion.

And as I said, personally, if I am an advocate for expanding customization across the board, I am not going to be "but let's keep this exclusive" when there's not a strong lore reason for it. So "but the NB have to have an unique eye shape" by itself doesn't cut it for me, just like I advocate for giving NB NE ear options, since Elisande and Alluriel also have them.

This is the NE/NB thread, so that's what I am talking about. Feel free to disengage wherever you want.

That is a shame then, because the nightborne were introduced with these features and those features is what makes them Nightborne, like mana hands (which we don't have) Giving these features to Night elves doesn't make much sense to begin with, because we want them to be more seperate and on their own. Before the update they were just looking way to night elven and that was the whole problem. You essentially say we should all be equal which is just stupid in a mmorpg sorry.

Expanding could mean many things, but not this, like I said the whole purpose was/is to seperate them from the night elves, not get closer.. if you think otherwise then you haven't been following all those nightborne discussions. No offence, but this awefully sounds like a high elf/void elf debate. We want what blood elves have ec etc. Instead it's now nightborne night elf.

The upward ears is another thing that seperates them, but what do you mean Elisande and Alluriel are both Nightborne? what do night elves have to do with it? Night elves already have their own ears with feral feature or able to be shorter or thicker. That is appearntly how Blizz sees them. Again, I am just shocked that you seem to try to bring them closer which is the opposite of what is happening here on the ptr. So what exactly are you fighting for?

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

That is a shame then, because the nightborne were introduced with these features and those features is what makes them Nightborne, like mana hands (which we don't have) Giving these features to Night elves doesn't make much sense to begin with, because we want them to be more seperate and on their own. Before the update they were just looking way to night elven and that was the whole problem. You essentially say we should all be equal which is just stupid in a mmorpg sorry

Nah, that's not what I am saying. There's a clear difference between a facial shape that should exist also on NE's, and a cultural style as the glowy hands.

That's what arguments like yours lack, the nuance of asking "why should be this feature unique." And again, uniqueness for its own sake is just a barrier for more options for all. For me the problem was not that they looked like NE's; it was that they couldn't look like themselves. In no point that also means that NE's shouldn't look like that.

Aesthetic distinction for itself as the goal and not as an expression of the lore is just a pointless barrier.

Expanding could mean many things, but not this, like I said the whole purpose was/is to seperate them from the night elves, not get closer..

And that was not the point ever, for me. The point was that NB could get to look like they did before being playable.

[Alanar]

Narrow eyes are not unique to Nightborn, if you look at the Azshara Nightelf model, she got it too. Also, I think the old Night Elf model got some variation with more narrow eyes as well.

I think it would be a great addition, not just for Night Elfs, would be cool for the races as well. It just gives a nicely different vibe to the character.

She does have a diffeent eye shape true, it's not as narrow, but I assume they had to make her more unique since she is a major lore character and appearntly the most beautifull.

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Nah, that's not what I am saying. There's a clear difference between a facial shape that should exist also on NE's, and a cultural style as the glowy hands.

Mana hair, glowy hands and narrow eyes have been the three things people have been asking/begging for since their introduction. I don't think it's fair to say NE should have that. I don't see them as 3 completely different things, I see those as features that defines them as shown on Npc models people fell in love with. It's good atleast 1 of the 3 is available now (finnaly) Night elves never had this in game and it was never a topic of debate. Only just now... go figure. (HIgh elf debate)Azshara is a nice try, but it hardly counts, since it's a major lore character and the most bueatifull (there will only be one Azshara) and secondly they are not even that narrow.

That's what arguments like yours lack, the nuance of asking "why should be this feature unique." And again, uniqueness for its own sake is just a barrier for more options for all. For me the problem was not that they looked like NE's; it was that they couldn't look like themselves. In no point that also means that NE's shouldn't look like that.

I am not sure what you are trying to say here, Our goal has always been to look like their npc counterparts. This is how they were introduced and this is what seperates them from their cousins. Having unique options is not a bad thing and that is were they should expand on and a motivator to play a certain race imo. My argument doesn't lack it as it was already adressed couple of times, the main factor was to look like the npcs and ofc that these features seperate them from the night elves, they have to have something or why even bother making them playable. Luckily it's exactly what they are doing. It's sad we don't have the other 2 options available..

Aesthetic distinction for itself as the goal and not as an expression of the lore is just a pointless barrier.

I wouldn't take it that far tbh.

Edit: Missed the ear thing, but yes Elisande and Auriel do have lower ears, I always thought it was an oversight or a way of saying there a few who have night elf features, but was never explained. Maybe that big headpiece of her is making it go down ^^ But I think we can be pretty positive about the well changing them and addapted new features.