1. #3241
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    The math has shown (Warren's plan) won't just be a drag, it will literally force people to sell the companies they own, usually the ones they started, or the ones they own outright. That's the problem, the only way to pay for having a successful business, is to sell off that business... piece by piece.
    Where in the plan does it say "companies must be sold"?

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  2. #3242
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Punishment? There's no punishment. They gave people an artificially good deal. If you're going to give someone a taxes-in deal, that implies the business is covering the tax part. I'm expected to surrender sales taxes to the government regardless of what I charge. They're just paying back taxes. That's not punishment. That's your legal duty.
    Is they are paying back taxes, that would mean they wee not complying with laws. So, exactly what laws did they break?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Who uses and benefits more from roads, the Jones two houses down with a combined income of $60,0000 or Amazon????????

    Its a mystery no one can ever know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    This is the point, Amazon definitely uses more in strict dollars, but they also pay more in strict dollars. And, since taxes are based on percentage of income, it makes ore sense to base this metric on how much they paid in taxes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    For a number of reasons this is completely meaningless. Its also totally untrue.

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    The freedom to hoard as much as you can.
    You mean... because those guys have collateral?

    Yep, that's how it works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Wherein you make up a false premise that nobody was arguing at the outset, to manufacture a false character attack you have no basis for whatsoever and aim it at everyone else in the thread.

    You are, again, just engaging in empty lies and personal attacks, because you can't make your case on data and facts and rational analysis.
    No, the issue was long that they are not paying their "fair share."

    I wanted them to quantify it, since that's what they want to charge someone... but people balked. People have long talked about taxing closer to the tax rates of yore, so that's what it could look like. Would Bezos paying that much over 5 years satisfy you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    Where in the plan does it say "companies must be sold"?
    The simple math of the matter. The wealth tax would require they liquidate assets, because most of their wealth is tied up into a single company. They simply don't have other assets, or cash to pull from. Contrary to what people believe, wealthy people don't tend to piles of cash like Scrooge McDuck.

  3. #3243
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    The simple math of the matter. The wealth tax would require they liquidate assets, because most of their wealth is tied up into a single company. They simply don't have other assets, or cash to pull from. Contrary to what people believe, wealthy people don't tend to piles of cash like Scrooge McDuck.
    It doesn't, but it's cute you keep saying that.

    If the wealthy have to do it they should be better with their money and stop buying avocado toast and Starbucks. Have they tried not being wealthy?

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  4. #3244
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    It doesn't, but it's cute you keep saying that.

    If the wealthy have to do it they should be better with their money and stop buying avocado toast and Starbucks. Have they tried not being wealthy?
    I'd love for him to provide the math about some fictional person that is wealthy enough to pay such a huge amount but stupid enough to only have one company and nothing else.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  5. #3245
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    It doesn't, but it's cute you keep saying that.

    If the wealthy have to do it they should be better with their money and stop buying avocado toast and Starbucks. Have they tried not being wealthy?
    "If they cannot pay the absurd taxes we want to push on them, they should have thought of that before they let us force the absurd taxes we want to push on them."

    This is exactly why I'm glad Warren's plan has no traction, and why Democrats will keep losing to the GOP. As shitty as the GOP are, and they are terrible... they understand how to actually win at politics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    I'd love for him to provide the math about some fictional person that is wealthy enough to pay such a huge amount but stupid enough to only have one company and nothing else.
    That was already provided.

    It's the owner of In&Out Burger.

    Hell, most of the wealthy people in the top 25 have almost all their wealth tied up in a single company, usually the one they founded.

    Imagine mocking someone, because they only founded one multi-billion-dollar company...

  6. #3246
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    "If they cannot pay the absurd taxes we want to push on them, they should have thought of that before they let us force the absurd taxes we want to push on them."
    I only used the same level of rhetoric that the rich use for the poor. "Just stop being poor" and "don't buy fruit toast" are the classic things. The only way the wealthy aren't able to pay a tax is if they blow all of their money suddenly, there is no tax that will take away 75%+ of their money, or company, like that.

    If the rich will lose everything because of taxes then they should learn to use their money better, like the poor when they have to only spend $30 on food for a month.

    This is exactly why I'm glad Warren's plan has no traction, and why Democrats will keep losing to the GOP. As shitty as the GOP are, and they are terrible... they understand how to actually win at politics.
    Yeah, by speaking lowest common denominator scare tactics that pit the poor against other poor. You still haven't posted the math on why Bezos would have had to sell enormous chunks of Amazon off to pay for taxes, though you have kept up the white knighting for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Imagine mocking someone, because they only founded one multi-billion-dollar company...
    Imagine defending the rich to such a degree.
    Last edited by Dontrike; 2021-09-04 at 12:15 PM.

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  7. #3247
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    I only used the same level of rhetoric that the rich use for the poor. "Just stop being poor" and "don't buy fruit toast" are the classic things. The only way the wealthy aren't able to pay a tax is if they blow all of their money suddenly, there is no tax that will take away 75%+ of their money, or company, like that.



    Yeah, by speaking lowest common denominator scare tactics that pit the poor against other poor. You still haven't posted the math on why Bezos would have had to sell enormous chunks of Amazon off to pay for taxes, though you have kept up the white knighting for them.
    The first one is simplified advice, the second is just stupid.

    Yes, being more fiscally responsible is a good thing, in my opinion. Yes, people should plan for their futures, and work to not live paycheck to paycheck.

    Warren's plan would chip away at their assets, because it's not based on income.

    And yes, the math was given. Since the vast majority of their wealth is tied into stock, that 6% would be about $12 billion dollars, which is way more than Bezos has in cash. I don't even know if he's sold that much stock in total over the past 5 years. And, he'd have to come up with that every single year, which is far more than his actual income. So, the only answer is to sell assets, with his primary asset being shares of stock in the company he founded.

    My thing is to defend freedom, I don't much care whose freedom I'm defending. I'll even defend the freedoms of complete scumbags, as even they deserve freedom.

  8. #3248
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    This is the point, Amazon definitely uses more in strict dollars, but they also pay more in strict dollars. And, since taxes are based on percentage of income, it makes ore sense to base this metric on how much they paid in taxes.
    You're right, taxes are based on percentage of income.....but what if that income is put into tax shelters to...you know....avoid income tax???!?!?!?!?!?

    You're so close to finally tripping your way into agreeing with literally everyone else, including the Wall Street Journal....
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  9. #3249
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    You're right, taxes are based on percentage of income.....but what if that income is put into tax shelters to...you know....avoid income tax???!?!?!?!?!?

    You're so close to finally tripping your way into agreeing with literally everyone else, including the Wall Street Journal....
    Except, you already got caught lying about that.

    Remember? This is history, if you want to dredge up your lies about being paid in stock, then by all means, let's get to it.

    Tell me, what was Jeff Bezos income over the years that are covered in his tax records?

  10. #3250
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    That was already provided.

    It's the owner of In&Out Burger.

    Hell, most of the wealthy people in the top 25 have almost all their wealth tied up in a single company, usually the one they founded.

    Imagine mocking someone, because they only founded one multi-billion-dollar company...
    Must've missed it then, how much would she need to sell? How much would she even need to pay? Or just tell me what proposed tax plan we're talking about so I can look it up myself.

    God forbid they'd need to share their wealth after abusing countries to accumulate it, that's really terrible, agreed.

    I am pretty sure that Lyndsi founded nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  11. #3251
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    The first one is simplified advice, the second is just stupid.
    "Stop being poor" is "simplified advice"? You're....you're kidding, right? In no way is it advice. In what world is that advice?

    Yes, being more fiscally responsible is a good thing, in my opinion. Yes, people should plan for their futures, and work to not live paycheck to paycheck.
    You mean like companies should be doing?

    And yes, the math was given. Since the vast majority of their wealth is tied into stock, that 6% would be about $12 billion dollars, which is way more than Bezos has in cash. I don't even know if he's sold that much stock in total over the past 5 years. And, he'd have to come up with that every single year, which is far more than his actual income. So, the only answer is to sell assets, with his primary asset being shares of stock in the company he founded.

    My thing is to defend freedom, I don't much care whose freedom I'm defending. I'll even defend the freedoms of complete scumbags, as even they deserve freedom.
    Oh no, not selling shit to pay for stuff. You mean like normal people do sometimes? *GASP!* No! Anything but selling their 19th mansion! THE HORROR! What if they have to go from private jet to first class, god forbid.

    You clearly do care who you defend though, because when the poor are brought up you don't give two shits, but as soon as the rich paying their fare share is brought up you show up out of nowhere and defend them as much as you can. Yes, we know you defend scumbags, that's all you've been doing in this thread.

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  12. #3252
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    "Stop being poor" is "simplified advice"? You're....you're kidding, right? In no way is it advice. In what world is that advice?
    .
    Look man, if you're born as a poor black kid in a very racist state/city you can just deal with it by stopping to be poor. Even if any company can just reject you for being black because that should be legal in Machimo's perfect world.

  13. #3253
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Must've missed it then, how much would she need to sell? How much would she even need to pay? Or just tell me what proposed tax plan we're talking about so I can look it up myself.

    God forbid they'd need to share their wealth after abusing countries to accumulate it, that's really terrible, agreed.

    I am pretty sure that Lyndsi founded nothing.
    It was Wareen's tax plan, and Snyder's additional tax burden is about $160 million a year, meaning she'd have to sell off part of the company she owns outright within about 4 years, and she would lose majority ownership in about 17.

    The big problem is that her company is lauded for how well it has long treated its employees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    "Stop being poor" is "simplified advice"? You're....you're kidding, right? In no way is it advice. In what world is that advice?



    You mean like companies should be doing?



    Oh no, not selling shit to pay for stuff. You mean like normal people do sometimes? *GASP!* No! Anything but selling their 19th mansion! THE HORROR! What if they have to go from private jet to first class, god forbid.

    You clearly do care who you defend though, because when the poor are brought up you don't give two shits, but as soon as the rich paying their fare share is brought up you show up out of nowhere and defend them as much as you can. Yes, we know you defend scumbags, that's all you've been doing in this thread.
    Companies are doing it, and many are prospering as a result. You're the one qhonis butt hurt at their fiscal responsibility.

    I do care about the poor, ai also support their freedom of self-determination.

    Ah yes... "fair share."

    What exactly is that fair share?

  14. #3254
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Companies are doing it, and many are prospering as a result. You're the one qhonis butt hurt at their fiscal responsibility.
    "Fiscal responsibility" AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH How many times have we had to bail out how many companies and industries again? How many times have we had to subsidize a company's workers like Amazon and Walmart? How many times have we had to give the rich and their companies tax breaks? I'm "butt hurt" because I'm tired of handing the rich money and getting literally nothing in return.

    If they were fiscally responsible we wouldn't have to help them out every god damned step of the fucking way and when we do that we'd actually see a return for it, but instead now we have companies taking the tax cuts we paid for and doing stock buy backs and giving CEOs million dollar bonuses while firing employees. The fact you think that is fiscal responsibility is baffling at best and stupid's second cousin at worst.

    I do care about the poor, ai also support their freedom of self-determination.
    I see we're lying now. I totally did the coitus with Beyonce like 4 1/2 times last night, she gave me money for how amazing I was.

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  15. #3255
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It was Wareen's tax plan, and Snyder's additional tax burden is about $160 million a year, meaning she'd have to sell off part of the company she owns outright within about 4 years, and she would lose majority ownership in about 17.

    The big problem is that her company is lauded for how well it has long treated its employees.
    Come on, you should know by now that your word is just not good enough, give a link, or real math.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  16. #3256
    Guys need to give it a break. Macho has never given a damn about the poor unless they were enslaved. (Starve or work is his way of giving them "freedums if choise"). He's only interested in protecting the wealthy. (Wealth gap gets wider and wider and his only earlier response was to ignore it. Something he has in common with pc2.)
    I'm sure that despite his supposed "outrage" during the pandemic his alignment with other libertarians are the same. There's reason why they caucus with the gop. And every fucking time they get directly involved with policy they fuck the country over.

  17. #3257
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    "Fiscal responsibility" AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH How many times have we had to bail out how many companies and industries again? How many times have we had to subsidize a company's workers like Amazon and Walmart? How many times have we had to give the rich and their companies tax breaks? I'm "butt hurt" because I'm tired of handing the rich money and getting literally nothing in return.

    If they were fiscally responsible we wouldn't have to help them out every god damned step of the fucking way. The fact you think that is fiscal responsibility is baffling at best and stupid's second cousin at worst.



    I see we're lying now. I totally did the coitus with Beyonce like 4 1/2 times last night, she gave me money for how amazing I was.
    Those companies should bot have been bailed out. I opposed all of Bush's and Obama's bailouts. You're preaching to the choir on that one.

    Subsidizing workers? You mean welfare? Once again, that's not corporate welfare. But, subsidies to farms, the coal industry, and even green energy companies is corporate welfare.

    I oppose those tax breaks, including tax-exempt status. I want everyone paying, so they understand just how wasteful the government is, and will push to reduce taxes.

    The same goes for all the other subsidies for normal citizens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Guys need to give it a break. Macho has never given a damn about the poor unless they were enslaved. (Starve or work is his way of giving them "freedums if choise"). He's only interested in protecting the wealthy. (Wealth gap gets wider and wider and his only earlier response was to ignore it. Something he has in common with pc2.)
    I'm sure that despite his supposed "outrage" during the pandemic his alignment with other libertarians are the same. There's reason why they caucus with the gop. And every fucking time they get directly involved with policy they fuck the country over.
    As opposed to you, who just wants to fuck over people you don't like?

    Feel free to disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Come on, you should know by now that your word is just not good enough, give a link, or real math.
    That was given weeks ago, multiple times.

  18. #3258
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Those companies should bot have been bailed out. I opposed all of Bush's and Obama's bailouts. You're preaching to the choir on that one.
    But giving them money is giving them freedom. You wouldn't take their freedom away from them, would you?

    Subsidizing workers? You mean welfare? Once again, that's not corporate welfare. But, subsidies to farms, the coal industry, and even green energy companies is corporate welfare.
    No, I mean subsidize workers. I should not have to pay for someone working 40 hours a week because Amazon or Walmart or whoever wanted to save a few million of their bottom line. The fact we pay some of their employees salary because they are cheap fucks is wrong and you fucking know it.

    I want everyone paying,
    You clearly don't if you scoff at the idea of the rich paying even a little more in taxes.

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  19. #3259
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    But giving them money is giving them freedom. You wouldn't take their freedom away from them, would you?


    No, I mean subsidize workers. I should not have to pay for someone working 40 hours a week because Amazon or Walmart or whoever wanted to save a few million of their bottom line. The fact we pay some of their employees salary because they are cheap fucks is wrong and you fucking know it.



    You clearly don't if you scoff at the idea of the rich paying even a little more in taxes.
    Where are you getting that money from?

    Are you taking some else's freedom to give them.that money? Or, are you only giving yours? Shit, just keep printing it, you'll have all the freedom in the world

    /s

    I agree, you shouldn't have to pay for them... so don't

    Wait for it...

  20. #3260
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    That was given weeks ago, multiple times.
    What search term should I use then? Because warrens tax plan in combination with lynsi snyder lead me to mmo-c.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

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