why is no one playing survival. its insanely strong right now

[Makaloff]

Also, remember blizz invested a lot of development time into actually trying to make Sv work over the years. This has come at a cost of actually having it be a ranged spec, and it has come at a cost of further development of the hunter class in general. And for what? So that a couple thousand players can enjoy their extreme niche spec while the rest of us have to suffer a 2spec class. All the work on an entire spec wasted instead of developing an actually interesting potential spec like dark ranger.

It's so shockingly stupid, its unbelievable ppl still defend this failure. The arguments against melee Sv never failed, the melee hunter dream fell flat on its face on launch. Today its not been five months, five patches or five tiers. Its been five whole fucking years of this shit, and soon enough we'll be able to say five fucking expansions of failure. But no need to worry, the heroic defenders of melee Sv will still be there holding the line.

beacuse they think its justified that a miniscule playerbase had the right to ruin a once beloved specc and turn it into a abomination instead of them playing a warrior or any other meele class. Honestly i think they will rework it to ranged again, they push nothing into surv right now, the leggy was a bow and nothing for surv so a big hope is that it will be ranged in 10.0

the most infuriating argument that MSV players have is that "hurr durr you have 2 ranged specc, play them" instead of realising that people might not want to play MM (MM atm is so incredibly sluggish to play its insane) and BM is pretty much braindead specc (not to mention pet ai still being bad after almost 2 decades). I had to quit playing my hunter since they took away RSV, no, MM doesnt play the same and have suffered alot thanks to survival stuff being baked into the specc that have nothing to do there to begin with.

[Pauper]

beacuse they think its justified that a miniscule playerbase had the right to ruin a once beloved specc and turn it into a abomination instead of them playing a warrior or any other meele class. Honestly i think they will rework it to ranged again, they push nothing into surv right now, the leggy was a bow and nothing for surv so a big hope is that it will be ranged in 10.0

the most infuriating argument that MSV players have is that "hurr durr you have 2 ranged specc, play them" instead of realising that people might not want to play MM (MM atm is so incredibly sluggish to play its insane) and BM is pretty much braindead specc (not to mention pet ai still being bad after almost 2 decades). I had to quit playing my hunter since they took away RSV, no, MM doesnt play the same and have suffered alot thanks to survival stuff being baked into the specc that have nothing to do there to begin with.

I don't know if I was a betting man I would bet on SV staying melee... - please quote me on this, I want to see how well this comment has aged come next expansion.

In any case I don't think it is any conspiracy or blizz is actively trying to antagonize those who want ranged SV back, rather I think it's more Blizz's vision for SV is different from your vision of SV, from those who want ranged SV to come back - simple as that, you can agree or disagree with the vision and you can certainly express your praise or give misgivings about how blizz is handling SV, but for the moment blizzard's vision for SV is a melee spec and I hope it stays a melee spec post Shadowlands. Melee SV since Legion, lets keep it going blizz.

Hope this comment ages well, can't wait !

[Donkeywing]

I would say its very unlikely to go back ranged. They doubled down on melee Sv a while ago, they've spend so much time developing the spec its improbable they will just throw it out of the window and bring back some old iteration of Sv. That would be a humiliation, where as right now they can hide behind their secret ''vision'' without saying anything other than that its niche.

[Makaloff]

I would say its very unlikely to go back ranged. They doubled down on melee Sv a while ago, they've spend so much time developing the spec its improbable they will just throw it out of the window and bring back some old iteration of Sv. That would be a humiliation, where as right now they can hide behind their secret ''vision'' without saying anything other than that its niche.

i wouldnt be so sure about that tbh, i mean they had no problem throwing out old RSV (and that was with 15 years of development down the drain), and i mean they put no effort into current survival either, hell they didnt even add a leggy for surv from SoD (while MM and BM got a nice bow to play with). In general i think they are stuck to what to do with the specc, the best would be to offer RSV as a 4th specc option and make both sides happy (and i would be fine with that, only reason i dislike current surv is beacuse i cannot play the ranged version of the specc)

[Donkeywing]

i wouldnt be so sure about that tbh, i mean they had no problem throwing out old RSV (and that was with 15 years of development down the drain)

They learned the hard way its significantly easier to just delete abilities/spec than it is to create or fix stuff. It would require a major effort on their part to bring it back to ranged when you consider it is in fact a functional spec you're deleting (despite the fact its a failure obviously). You cannot just bring back an old iteration of Sv without major changes, one of the reasons it worked well back then for example was a base 1sec gcd. I dont see them doing it considering the dev time they put into Sv and the bad experience we've all had by them mass deleting a bunch of stuff.

[Queen of Hamsters]

They learned the hard way its significantly easier to just delete abilities/spec than it is to create or fix stuff. It would require a major effort on their part to bring it back to ranged when you consider it is in fact a functional spec you're deleting (despite the fact its a failure obviously). You cannot just bring back an old iteration of Sv without major changes, one of the reasons it worked well back then for example was a base 1sec gcd. I dont see them doing it considering the dev time they put into Sv and the bad experience we've all had by them mass deleting a bunch of stuff.

God I wish they'd just backtrack on the GCD change already...
WoD BM was a completely different spec to Legion BM. Same with MM. Granted, they gutted SV for the entirety of WoD to say "Hey look, nobody's playing it anymore, LET'S MAKE MELEE LUL!" after it having been immensely successful in MoP...

Between the GCD and the design shifts, Hunter went from fun to a drag within a single patch... All so that devs can say "Oh look, we did a thing! We reinvented the wheel but we made the wheel less useful!"...

[Donkeywing]

Between the GCD and the design shifts, Hunter went from fun to a drag within a single patch... All so that devs can say "Oh look, we did a thing! We reinvented the wheel but we made the wheel less useful!"...

Yeah pretty much agree. They were also boasting about class fantasy but in terms of mechanical play Sv is litteraly a melee spec and MM is more like a caster than ever before (in part cuz of gcd). Even bm is less unique cause of gcd.

[teverin]

I think they had a good idea, but it was executed poorly. I like the thought of a Rexar-like hunter, fighting close alongside a pet, but it being melee does kinda suck when there are so many melee already.

Do you guys think it could have worked as a throwing axe spec, dual wielding 1H axes and attacking with them at range? Then you could use different beast aspects for the abilities. Serpent strike is a poisoned axe toss, boars charge to go in and do a blade dance type animation attack where you and your pet dash through the enemy and then disengage to go back to range. Something that combines a bit of ranged and melee maybe.

I wonder if something like that would have been a good compromise.

[Makaloff]

They learned the hard way its significantly easier to just delete abilities/spec than it is to create or fix stuff. It would require a major effort on their part to bring it back to ranged when you consider it is in fact a functional spec you're deleting (despite the fact its a failure obviously). You cannot just bring back an old iteration of Sv without major changes, one of the reasons it worked well back then for example was a base 1sec gcd. I dont see them doing it considering the dev time they put into Sv and the bad experience we've all had by them mass deleting a bunch of stuff.

thats why they should bring it back as a 4th specc (after all they had no issues separating feral and guardian) and im sure they could work out the GCD stuff and i mean when the specc was in its prime time we had to deal with GCD so it really isnt as big issue. The problem is with current survival is that they dont know what to do with the spec and the specc is seeing minimal changes constantly (if any at all) so they dont really put any effort in its current iteration atleast

[Schizoide]

Survival was executed really well. It's a hella-fun spec. If it was the Demon Hunter's third spec I'd play it there.

...but on my hunter? Hell no, not in a million years. I will never play melee on my hunter.

And that's what they should do. Give it a green fire look, rename/rebalance the abilities, remove the pet, and give it to Demon Hunters. At least then someone would play it. Maybe give anyone with a level 60 hunter at itemlvl >220 before the change is announced (to ensure they actually play it) a token for a free 60 Demon Hunter in 220 gear.

Sure, Hunters would be stuck with only 2 specs, but I mean, aren't we already?

[superhero]

Probably because many guilds have a glut of melee, and don’t want any more.

You are right

[shise]

Because it is not a hunter spec.

[neik]

People disagree, and have different opinions, and that's fine, but to me melee survival with a pet is a ultimate class fantasy.

[BukkaKid]

I'm glad the dozen or so SV Hunters out there like the playstyle/fantasy, for real you do you boo. But it's undeniable from every metric/statistic/consensus that the spec was a colossal waste of time and resources. No one wanted it or even asked for it, hell in all my time in Classic and BC I haven't seen nor heard of anyone missing or wanting current SV spec.

[KrayZ33]

I'm glad the dozen or so SV Hunters out there like the playstyle/fantasy, for real you do you boo. But it's undeniable from every metric/statistic/consensus that the spec was a colossal waste of time and resources. No one wanted it or even asked for it, hell in all my time in Classic and BC I haven't seen nor heard of anyone missing or wanting current SV spec.

I don't know, but when someone in Classic or BC wants to play a retail spec...why the heck would they be playing Classic or BC?

[Aerwydd]

I agree, it's the most fun I've had on hunter in years. I came across Symex videos on YouTube and seen how much it ripped at high level so decided to give it a go and it's so much fun.

[Makaloff]

I don't know if I was a betting man I would bet on SV staying melee... - please quote me on this, I want to see how well this comment has aged come next expansion.

In any case I don't think it is any conspiracy or blizz is actively trying to antagonize those who want ranged SV back, rather I think it's more Blizz's vision for SV is different from your vision of SV, from those who want ranged SV to come back - simple as that, you can agree or disagree with the vision and you can certainly express your praise or give misgivings about how blizz is handling SV, but for the moment blizzard's vision for SV is a melee spec and I hope it stays a melee spec post Shadowlands. Melee SV since Legion, lets keep it going blizz.

Hope this comment ages well, can't wait !

true that but developers also have to realise when some things just doesnt work out right. FF had a similar issue with one of the classes (Bard i think it was? cant remember exactly) and once it showed the rework was a bad idea, they reworked it back to its previous state since the community wasnt happy. WoW on the other hand seems to double down on the bad decisions and thinking they are gods or something, a mentality im not sure will change sadly and it have caused massive amounts of issues and frustrations.

Yea i get what you mean, i still hope they could go the route that MSV stays but they introduce RSV as a 4th specc, making both sides happy and they wont need to spend time to rework MSV. Allthought there is many times i dont understand blizzard, there is so many decisions they could have done that would have made everyone happy but instead they go on the route that "you are gonna like no matter what" attitude instead of actually man up, admitting they were wrong and fix the issues that was brought by bad game designs.

[Vitinariy]

it seems either people dont know how to play it or they have yet to realize how strong survival is right now and its being kept a secret by survival players. seriously try it.

In short - because no-one wants to have a melee hunter, except those who already play it. Especially in a raid.

Other melee classes bring some sort of group buff or save. And there's going to be an uproar if survival becomes strong enough to out damage all other melee by so much that their utility will be ignored.
Additionally, I feel like the niche of the hunter now is kinda staying in range and dealing with mechanics, while losing very little damage. Survival cannot do that.

I personally enjoy the class, but very few groups will enjoy you. Even in m+ you are adding complexity to quacking, spiteful, storming and so on, instead of removing it =/

[RobertMugabe]

Survival is really fun and strong. Honestly, making it a melee spec was a great idea of Blizz.

That being said, survival will always struggle a bit in raids by simply being a melee spec (like feral and enh). Other than that I never understood why some people wanted the ranged survival back. It was always a trash-tier boring spec where Blizzard was struggling hard to keep it different than the other specs.

[Venziir]

Survival is really fun and strong. Honestly, making it a melee spec was a great idea of Blizz.

That being said, survival will always struggle a bit in raids by simply being a melee spec (like feral and enh). Other than that I never understood why some people wanted the ranged survival back. It was always a trash-tier boring spec where Blizzard was struggling hard to keep it different than the other specs.

My biggest issue with Post Legion Surv, is that they went from a really fun and engaging, albeit bloated spec, to a bareboned spec which feels quite hollow.