Tyrande and Sylvanas and why i hate how they are portrayed.

[geco]

I had the idea that, as god of life, she's literally about to mass resurrect all dead night elves save the ones that rejected her in joining the forsaken.
Might even provide a little buff and restore their immortality while she's at it, just as a way to say "sorry for the genocide".

In the event that that happens in the best possible way.
It would still be a great "We screwed up so shit we had to throw the last two expansions in the trash." Thing that the community will take just as badly.

Apart from being by "divine power" of a goddess that is no longer well seen. It will have no value.

In other words, it will not be an "achievement" or a "victory." It is just an empty gift to shut up the players and it will show

Blizz see saving Ardenweald as "big payback" for night elves. They dont consider living night elves worthy of any divine gift.

And that's just what Kaldorei Fans are sick of.

We are going back to the time when Malfurion did not lift a finger for his people and used all his power to solve some supposed end of the World.

Is supposed to have enormous power but they cannot use it to save his children.

[VladlTutushkin]

In the event that that happens in the best possible way.
It would still be a great "We screwed up so shit we had to throw the last two expansions in the trash." Thing that the community will take just as badly.

Apart from being by "divine power" of a goddess that is no longer well seen. It will have no value.

In other words, it will not be an "achievement" or a "victory." It is just an empty gift to shut up the players and it will show




And that's just what Kaldorei Fans are sick of.

We are going back to the time when Malfurion did not lift a finger for his people and used all his power to solve some supposed end of the World.

Is supposed to have enormous power but they cannot use it to save his children.

Night elves suffer because Blizz use them as sacrificial lambs and then attribute "wider" good events as "good" for them. For example - saving Emerald Dream. Or Ardenweald. Or just saving some not night-elven forest.

Its good, yes. But not for the elves themselves. They only save, protect and fight for things that are "for everybody" and always lose, fail and abandon things that are theirs.

- - - Updated - - -

Why would you even want Anduin to be his "ideal vision"? It's just WC3 Jaina and we already have Jaina at home. These kind of characters are only interesting when they have something to rebel against - they don't really make sense when they run the place and nothing changes.

I would have loved to see the opposite direction. One where Anduin is forced to come to terms with how his world works and the consequences of his peacemongering and the resulting Alliance defeats finally catch up with him. One where he realizes that a lot of the blood shed in the Fourth War is actually on his hands. I'd love to see a version of events where for once his cause isn't unambiguously good and his self-righteousness and grandstanding are shown as unsustainable luxuries. I want to see an Anduin that strikes out in anger because something actually gets under his skin.

That what game sorely needs. People treat Anduin as their close relative for some reason, even those who are not remotely inclined to do so. Hell, some of my relatives treat me with less softness then Alliance leaders do with Anduin.

Someone coming up and just straight up telling him that his military acumen is "lacking" or rather non existent, that his high handed and "good" decision cost Alliance lives not only of soldiers but of civilians, that he undermines Alliance values and unity, that his rule is a shame and that he is not worthy to bear the name of Anduin Lothar would have being cathartic. Just saying all that and if he "snaps" and lashes out simply adding that "You should try using that attitude towards an enemy for once!" before leaving.

[Aresk]

Cheers on the correction. I entirely forgot Tomas existed as it's been a while since I've had this argument. Should've checked wowpedia. 5 out of 12 then.

The line about Nathanos observing 'several' leaving on the Forsaken side of the Gathering and Calia saying 'everyone' was leaving on the Alliance side of the conflict suggests that neither is being deceptive since both parties agree that multiple people are in the process of drifting towards Stromgarde as the meeting goes on. Crucially, this is going on before the horn is sounded as the Forsaken on the walls observe the general movement towards Stromgarde and this is what makes Sylvanas give the signal to retreat in the first place and Calia is swaying Elsie to defect too with that as reasoning. That after the signal was given and the Dark Rangers started shooting people were beginning to head back is both true and not relevant to the case I'm making, which is that they were in the process of defecting and give up on it upon being threatened and that the number of those doing so is higher than the confirmed five.

The whole bit regarding it not being treason because Sylvanas authorized the meeting is inaccurate because there are two separate events. There's Sylvanas seeing that the Desolate Council were drifting too close to Stromgarde for comfort and she sounds the horn to call them back. Then she's told that Calia is among them and she decides to shoot them because that recontextualizes what they're doing. There's a difference between them meeting their family or even hanging around a location close to the Alliance and joining up with a competitor for the throne who's backed by the Alliance. One is in keeping with the meeting, the latter is treason and it's the latter that takes place and it's why Sylvanas gives the killing order rather than letting her loyalty check play out and why she dismisses those coming back as unreliable. If you attempt to defect and then pussy out because of a threat to your life, you're not any more innocent simply because you failed in the attempt. She states this verbatim regarding not being able to tell who's motivated by fear and who by loyalty. We have reason to believe most are the former given that 'several' or 'everyone' of the twelve was leaving.

So we know that, with exception of Elsie, everyone of the Desolate Council still on the field was taking a stroll with their loved one, per Sylvanas. We know from Nathanos that several were moving toward Stromgarde. We know Callia knew that Parqual was defecting, and that she likely suspected the Felstones were defecting, given that she saw Parqual talk to them before both started walking off, but we also know she had no real knowledge of the plan given she didn't know what Parqual was planning until he shared a few words with her immediately before the stroll. Ergo, Calia assumed all those taking a stroll were defecting, while Sylvanas does not reach that conclusion; she instead decides to see who comes when called. Several did. She does not know that they were defecting, as if she did, she wouldn't have bothered with the horn at all.

Thank you for clarifying the point about Calia; that gives me some added perspective in what you're saying. I agree that it is condemning to be on the field with a claimant to the throne of Lordaeron, though given Sylvanas didn't know that Calia was on the field and given that Calia literally shouts her name to the other Forsaken after the horn is blown, it's clear that not all the Forsaken knew that she was on the field either. We also only see her talking with Elsie and Parqual (she healed Emma Felstone but didn't talk with any of them, immediately joining Elsie in conversation after the event), so unless Parqual told everyone but Elsie in advance (which again, we only see him talking with the Felstones before the defection), the rest of the people on the field are as clueless as Sylvanas about Calia's being there.

We already have Elsie as an example of a Forsaken who is neither defecting nor willing to support Calia. Per Sylvanas' defection test, we know that others were not defecting. Per Calia's shouting, we know that not everyone on the field knew she was there. For those reasons, I maintain my stance that more than Elsie on the field remained loyal to Sylvanas and Sylvanas' execution of the Desolate Council members was not justified under treason. While Elsie's "murder" (per Calia) was conducted under the rules Sylvanas laid out for the gathering (as she did not return at once), the killing of the rest of those returning to the wall was due to a ruler using their authority to remove a peaceful group of people whose vision of their nation differed from their leader's.

What I'm getting at regarding Annie is the same point you're making - we know that those targeted were all those who were returning or ran further off, not those who'd already come back. We know that 'several 'or 'everyone' was heading for Stromgarde before that point. So an indeterminate number above zero of the remaining six was in the process of defecting outside those we know by name. As you also point out we know that upon the order being given, some sped up their jog for Stromgarde which also gives you a pretty clear idea of their allegiance before hand, whereas those heading back are indeterminate and Elsie we know factually is innocent, but none of the characters save Calia know this or have reason to believe it given she ignores the horn call to finish her conversation and is right next to the other claimant.

I still don't understand how Annie plays into this, given she was already back at the wall and talking with Sylvanas before Sylvanas even noticed the people taking a stroll; it's not like she was on the field at the time the horn was sounded and beat the other people back because she wasn't a defector. With regard to the remaining six, I still don't know how you can definitively say they were defecting when, per Sylvanas' own logic, their actions demonstrated that they were not. The horn was to determine who was defecting. Those who came running, per Sylvanas, would be those who were not defecting. As you pointed out above, Calia being on the field changed things, but as far as Sylvanas' understanding of any defection, some of those on the field excluding Elsie (who remained out long enough to argue with Calia) were not defecting.

As regards Sylvanas's plans re: Elsie, I don't recall her ever committing to having Elsie killed after the meeting. What she intended was to discredit the Desolate Council and consequently their positions because she believed their hope of reconciliation was just going to end up poorly. Hence why she was happy at the start but once Anduin's holy aura swayed them to the One True Path she started getting pissed and gave the signal for them to come back to test their loyalty. She only committed to executing the Council when news of Calia reached her. We can't discount she'd have them disappeared even if it had went differently but we also have no hard proof on it. If there's something in the book to that effect send it my way.

There's never any concrete statement from Sylvanas saying she planned to kill Elsie. We know that she was planning on removing the Desolate Council and that the ploy was a means of having the Council collapse in on itself. However, as soon as Anduin bows to Elsie, Sylvanas' thoughts go from having the council destroy itself to the council convicting Vellcinda. There's also the dialogue between Sylvanas and Nathanos regarding killing everyone on the field, where she considers Anduin may do that and blame it on her, and Nathanos says that's more something Sylvanas would do: Sylvanas denies she has any plans for that and then immediately notes internally that her rangers will attack the instant she tells them to, which is far from conclusively but definitely foreshadowing. Most of the suggestions that Sylvanas would disappear the council members actually comes from Parqual's PoV, and he's an unreliable narrator as to Sylvanas' motivations, so perhaps I'm just reading too much into what Sylvanas intended by convicting Elsie.

[Pakheth]

I would have said more like Valerian Mengsk. I mean, hell, they're basically the same person, right down to the blonde ponytail.

Have you seen Anduin's HoTS skin:

[loras]

In the event that that happens in the best possible way.
It would still be a great "We screwed up so shit we had to throw the last two expansions in the trash." Thing that the community will take just as badly.

Apart from being by "divine power" of a goddess that is no longer well seen. It will have no value.

In other words, it will not be an "achievement" or a "victory." It is just an empty gift to shut up the players and it will show




And that's just what Kaldorei Fans are sick of.

We are going back to the time when Malfurion did not lift a finger for his people and used all his power to solve some supposed end of the World.

Is supposed to have enormous power but they cannot use it to save his children.

Perhaps, but narratively it makes sense.
And that's what counts, no amount of fanservice will make the fire go out.

Also it wouldn't undo all that much, hell if they fear it'll be taken as you think it will be they could do a narrative "What if?" thing where they show the battle for azerpth proceeding largely as it did regardless of Teldrassil.

[Mardux]

Blizzard has always written their (prominent) female characters as either unstable psychos or Mary Sue's, sometimes both in a short space of time. It really reads as if "any empowered woman must be kept under a male's oversight or they will go balls to the wall nuts".

Only half of them. The blue half is praised for it most of the time.

[loras]

I really DONT want to sound like i know better, but from the evidence and previous events i can say with decent amount of certainty that 1) There will be no resurrection. 2) IF there is SOME sort of resurrection then they will be reborn as animals or something. Or become "soul content" for next Teldrassil, giving it life or what not. You know, "monkey paw" but in a more of a "divine lesson" way.

So basically no resurrection, not even close.

Its sad as hell but Tyrande was pretty much defanged, declawed and sent back home (while likely forgiving Sylvanas too) for nothing more then "My bad!" from Elune and fixing Ardenweald.

Blizz see saving Ardenweald as "big payback" for night elves. They dont consider living night elves worthy of any divine gift.

Perhaps, all i can say is that i do not know the future and as such do not yet know if you will be right about all that.

[Mardux]

Have you seen Anduin's HoTS skin:

HotS isn't canon. Never has been, never will be.

Unless you expect us to believe Gazlowe was in the circus, Goodboy Greyman was both in the circus and is a Jekyll/Hyde ripoff, chromie is a genie, brightwing is a wizard of oz monkey, falstad was a pirate, etc.

[Pakheth]

HotS isn't canon. Never has been, never will be.

Unless you expect us to believe Gazlowe was in the circus, Goodboy Greyman was both in the circus and is a Jekyll/Hyde ripoff, chromie is a genie, brightwing is a wizard of oz monkey, falstad was a pirate, etc.

Dude it was a joke. They are of course similar by looks.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

They both are used to show the weird and ugly idea that women choosing violence or force to achieve their goals are “wrong” or doing this in bad faith and because of “being controlled by emotions” instead of common sense or justice and good of their people.

This isn't a new. WoW has been doing this since Wrath. Remember when Varian marched into the Undercity to take out evil, only for Jaina to teleport him out and be Blizzard's mouthpiece to condemn justice? "Nah, forget about all of that live human experimentation and enslavement of our people that the Forsaken have been doing under Sylvanas' orders for years; it was just a dreadlord! The Forsaken are good people!" What about when Jaina's city was nuked, and Thrall is used as Blizzard's mouthpiece to condemn justice? "Nah, the Horde isn't institutionally fascist regime and a barbarian culture; it was just that one bad apple Garrosh! The Horde are good people!". Or that scene at the end of MoP where Taran Zhu says that "my people have suffered more than any other, let Garrosh stand trial".

I like Taran Zhu, but holy shit that scene was stupid. I'm a Horde fan, but let's not mince words. The Horde is the unrepentantly evil faction. The Horde has existed for 39 years since Blackhand became the first Warchief. For those 39 years, there has only been FOUR YEARS where the Horde wasn't a fascist, warmongering regime: the three years under Thrall from Vanilla through the end of Wrath, and the one year Vol'jin was warchief. FOUR YEARS out of 39. The Horde managed to be not evil for 10% of its existence. The Horde explicitly invaded Pandaria to conquer it, steal its wealth, exploit its lands, and enslave its people. The Alliance only came to retrieve their Prince, and then later stayed behind to try to prevent the Horde's bloody conquest (and stop Garrosh from finding superweapons). It's also insulting for Taran Zhu to insinuate that Jaina is being an unreasonable prick... for being upset that her nation and almost everyone she loved were vaporized by the Horde. There is no moral equivalency between the Horde and the Alliance. If I was in that room when he said that, I would've punched Zhu in the face. "How dare you sir. How dare you."

[VladlTutushkin]

This isn't a new. WoW has been doing this since Wrath. Remember when Varian marched into the Undercity to take out evil, only for Jaina to teleport him out and be Blizzard's mouthpiece to condemn justice? "Nah, forget about all of that live human experimentation and enslavement of our people that the Forsaken have been doing under Sylvanas' orders for years; it was just a dreadlord! The Forsaken are good people!" What about when Jaina's city was nuked, and Thrall is used as Blizzard's mouthpiece to condemn justice? "Nah, the Horde isn't institutionally fascist regime and a barbarian culture; it was just that one bad apple Garrosh! The Horde are good people!". Or that scene at the end of MoP where Taran Zhu says that "my people have suffered more than any other, let Garrosh stand trial".

I like Taran Zhu, but holy shit that scene was stupid. I'm a Horde fan, but let's not mince words. The Horde is the unrepentantly evil faction. The Horde has existed for 39 years since Blackhand became the first Warchief. For those 39 years, there has only been FOUR YEARS where the Horde wasn't a fascist, warmongering regime: the three years under Thrall from Vanilla through the end of Wrath, and the one year Vol'jin was warchief. FOUR YEARS out of 39. The Horde managed to be not evil for 10% of its existence. The Horde explicitly invaded Pandaria to conquer it, steal its wealth, exploit its lands, and enslave its people. The Alliance only came to retrieve their Prince, and then later stayed behind to try to prevent the Horde's bloody conquest (and stop Garrosh from finding superweapons). It's also insulting for Taran Zhu to insinuate that Jaina is being an unreasonable prick... for being upset that her nation and almost everyone she loved were vaporized by the Horde. There is no moral equivalency between the Horde and the Alliance. If I was in that room when he said that, I would've punched Zhu in the face. "How dare you sir. How dare you."

Also not to mention that Forsaken and Blood Elf culture were build around vengeance and aggressive grudging , against Scourge and then later against Alliance (although for far shakier reasons) and nobody fucken condemns them, calls them insane, unreasonable and "succumbed to vengeance". Forsaken even had their carte blanche to make Blight, experiment on humans and do their whole nazi cosplays extravaganza on the grounds of "they need to get stronk to take revenge against Scourge and protect themselves from "racist" Alliance".

Its always Alliance that has to "let bygones be bygones" and "choose renewal". Notice how they make Uther essentially blame himself for slam-dunking Arthas into the Maw AND then also to feel bad for fighting him "judgmentally" when he was still alive (Uther i mean, not Arthas) but never bring up Sylvanas grudge or Kael's grudge or Lor'Themar's grudge against Arthas , although Sylvanas literally went ten miles farther in her rage then Uther ever did. Worst he did was usual "i am disappointed in you, my padawan" while she was literally frothing mad every time she heard word "Arthas".

Game also tried to clumsily make it look like Horde and Alliance are morally equal , which is bullshit. While forcing Alliance into a state of permanent cuckoldry and weakness which keeps driving players away from already dwindling faction...

When Tyrande forgives Sylvanas in Shadowlands and she gets some blissful afterlife or even "second chance" at living it will be fucken apotheosis of Alliance being a masochistic faction. And Blizz seriously think it will "work"? Or "sell"? They dont know that MOST people are not self-hating masochists who are ready to be cucked and taken for a joyride by their assigned "betters" at the first call?

[Nerovar]

Notice how they make Uther essentially blame himself for slam-dunking Arthas into the Maw AND then also to feel bad for fighting him "judgmentally" when he was still alive (Uther i mean, not Arthas)

Out of all the shitty things Shadowlands introduced this is by far the worst. I physically cringed while looking up that quest line.

[Elbob]

Out of all the shitty things Shadowlands introduced this is by far the worst. I physically cringed while looking up that quest line.

The over reductionism in both the person you are responding to and your sig are painful. Like blizzard has had some shit writing but your interpretation is just as bad. Uther broke his own tenets when he fought Arthas, thats why he felt bad. Its not a matter of how he did it but what he did. He put a blemish on himself that he couldn't let go or face, and it was still important to him that he did it. That acceptance he finally reaches in the quest chain is what shows the Kyrians that the forsworn sometimes have a point about remembering their past. Uther was BROKEN without knowledge and understanding of what he had done.

As to your sig, you must be oblivious to how the SL works. The Kyrians don't throw the souls into the maw. The scene with Uther and Arthas was not the norm. The Kyrians normally do a simple escort of the soul from the mortal worlds to Oribos where the systems in place would decide where the soul goes. The Kyrians much like Elune had no idea the souls were flying straight to the maw. "But what about the drought how did they not know something was wrong?", well they have probably suffered from droughts before (not to this degree) but lack of incoming souls to their leg of the SL probably isnt unheard of. Its important to remember that the SL consists of near infinite realms, we only interact with what seem to be the primary 4 who hold responsibilities to how the systems works.

[geco]

Perhaps, but narratively it makes sense.
And that's what counts, no amount of fanservice will make the fire go out.

Also it wouldn't undo all that much, hell if they fear it'll be taken as you think it will be they could do a narrative "What if?" thing where they show the battle for azerpth proceeding largely as it did regardless of Teldrassil.

It is precisely narratively wrong.
It has been preparing us for years for one thing. History tells us that this great thing is coming and when it is going to happen they tell us "Zass I'm not going to give it to you."

Is it how you saw the one of if in the first act there is a shotgun in the background for the third someone must have used it?

Well let's go 25 acts. Everyone talks about the shotgun but no one uses it and finally in act 26, the shotgun is no longer there.

[Myokony]

Ye same shit happened back in legion. Varian gets a cool scene while they make jaina stomp out of dalaran like a five year old.

[Mic_128]

Dude it was a joke. They are of course similar by looks.

Not just looks either. Both grew up with a violent, controlling father, who is a King/Emperor who was disappointed with their more peaceful son, who prefers books and study over learning to fight. Both mother's dead, both father's killed by explosions, both becoming the leader and taking attributes of their parents they aren't thrilled about.

[Raisei]

They're too attached to Calia to have Sylvanas returned as Forsaken leader sadly, besides,

I assume the Forsaken would probably not be too happy to have her back either, the actual ingame characters I mean, not the players here that don't care about anything as long as they can freely dunk people into blight. It did after all, take them all of 2 minutes to go from "Hail my beloved Banshee" to "Open the doors!"
What I assume is Thrall claiming Sylvanas as a prisoner and then trying to rehabilitate her, thus breaking his promise to Tyrande and basically keeping an apocalyptical threat in his basement.
This "might" anger the Alliance under Turalyon enough to march on Orgrimmar (especially with Alleria next to him).

the writers do not want war in Warcraft. They will eventually do conflict because that's how the game works,

I agree, the ones wanting the faction conflict are the players and the writer are forced to indulge them every few expansions, which always ends in a completely pointless result that just restores the status quo for the next expansion in which we work together again. This stupid cycle can't be something a halve-way intelligent writer wants.

but for the foreseeable they didn't neuter Jaina, Tyrande, etc. and turn the entire Horde into the parody of itself it is now in order to enable conflict. They also didn't have Turalyon find out that Anduin was right about the Forsaken and that Xe'ra went too far despite being infused with the Light so he can lead a conflict but the very opposite.

Note how 90% of the neutered people are on one side of the equation and you know how this is gonna go. Several leaders on the Horde side are more then happy to start another war. Both factions of the Trolls, the Mag'har and let's face it, Thrall was never able to curb the bloodlust of his people, if someone calls for war the Orcs will ignore him and make his AU "sister" their leader.
It's only a matter of time and the question which Alliance city or country will be going up in smoke this time.

What will happen is that she and most likely Arthas as well will get hackkneed redemption plot sped through in one patch and then get put in the emergency box with Illidan for later use.

Frankly I think Arthas at least would be an interesting plot. Sylvanas has more then overstayed her welcome by now and her plot isn't getting better. It's just Danuser writing for his own amusement at this point.

Anduin has been a pestilent writer's mouthpiece since at latest Mists. What's different now as compared to especially BFA is that he's actually suffered some kind of personal cost for this. He has some kind of arc in the story that hasn't been done with his character prior.

Agreed, though I didn't mind him before (probably because I didn't play during Mists), I don't mind having a heroic shining knight sometimes. Today's literature is always so dark, dower and edgy and insists that the plot has to punish people for trying to do good (see GoTh) that I find Anduin refreshing. I also like that he is strong willed and courages. It takes that to be good in a world that goes into world war every 3 years.
Sylvanas and Thrall and almost everyone else has resigned in their own way and keeps this hopeless cycle going, Anduin is the only one smart enough to know how stupid it is and the only one with the guts to try to change it. That is an interesting trait.

In that vein I am not 100% happy this whole stuff happens to him. It could destroy the character and make him just as resigned as all the others. Or it will result in his death in exchange for someone as undeserving as Sylvanas. Both options are shit and since Danuser decides what is going to happen, most likely one or the other will happen, probably the second.

[Nerovar]

The over reductionism in both the person you are responding to and your sig are painful. Like blizzard has had some shit writing but your interpretation is just as bad. Uther broke his own tenets when he fought Arthas, thats why he felt bad. Its not a matter of how he did it but what he did. He put a blemish on himself that he couldn't let go or face, and it was still important to him that he did it. That acceptance he finally reaches in the quest chain is what shows the Kyrians that the forsworn sometimes have a point about remembering their past. Uther was BROKEN without knowledge and understanding of what he had done.

This idea that Paladins can't be angry or cold in the face of evil is ridiculous. The fact that Uther blames himself for not trying to bring Arthas back into the fold by being nice to him after he already slaughtered his father and large parts of Lordaeron is ridiculous. Arthas had several opportunities to turn back and chose not to. By the time he faced Uther there was not a single shred of good left in him that Uther should feel compassionate about. This is such a horrible rewriting of Uther's character. WC3 Uther knew that facing Arthas and killing him was the just thing to do and the only way to save what remained of Lordaeron at that point. I seriously doubt Uther had any compassion when he slaughtered countless Orcs or tried to convince Tirion to forsake his vow to Eitrigg. Why is that? Because obviously to most humans the virtue of compassion does not extend to their mortal enemies and it's only Tirion Fordring's view that would later become popularized when he founded the Argent peaceniks. At the time Uther was alive, however, this was seen as heretical which is why Tirion got excommunicated from the Church of the Holy Light and was sent into exile by Uther. This quest line displays a gross misunderstanding or disregard for the differing views that used to exist in the Warcraft universe back when it still used to draw depth from history and other fantasy settings.

As to your sig, you must be oblivious to how the SL works. The Kyrians don't throw the souls into the maw. The scene with Uther and Arthas was not the norm. The Kyrians normally do a simple escort of the soul from the mortal worlds to Oribos where the systems in place would decide where the soul goes. The Kyrians much like Elune had no idea the souls were flying straight to the maw. "But what about the drought how did they not know something was wrong?", well they have probably suffered from droughts before (not to this degree) but lack of incoming souls to their leg of the SL probably isnt unheard of. Its important to remember that the SL consists of near infinite realms, we only interact with what seem to be the primary 4 who hold responsibilities to how the systems works.

You're actually completely wrong. The Kyrians know that every soul they deliver lands straight in the Maw and they still decide to continue their duty after this is revealed to them. There's even a quest pointing this out (Where a Soul Belongs + Faith Through the Darkness) where you get a soul with Kleia, bring it before the arbiter only to find it broken and then the soul ends up in the Maw. Kleia then tells the other Kyrians and they say "Yeah, we know and kinda don't care. Not our job. Now get back to hauling these souls, kiddo".

[loras]

It is precisely narratively wrong.
It has been preparing us for years for one thing. History tells us that this great thing is coming and when it is going to happen they tell us "Zass I'm not going to give it to you."

Is it how you saw the one of if in the first act there is a shotgun in the background for the third someone must have used it?

Well let's go 25 acts. Everyone talks about the shotgun but no one uses it and finally in act 26, the shotgun is no longer there.

Well, that's how i see Elune, as the shotgun.
She has been there for god knows how long, and now the time is right to use her and use her properly.

And what use does a god of death / life have if not to resurrect creatures?

[Elbob]

-snipping so much text thats not addressing what I said-

its not about paladins as a whole, you legit just went on a rant about Tirion for reasons unknown. Its about Uther's beliefs that made him who he was. Seeing as we don't have access to his inner monologue this reflection by Uther in SL is an expansion of our knowledge of him not a rewrite. He fought Arthas while pushed to a different mental place that was against his personal belief system. This inflection on his soul when he died stayed with him.

His choice to fight Arthas was the not the problem, it was his mental state and reasoning he used to get there that left a lasting effect on him and forever changed him.

You're actually completely wrong. The Kyrians know that every soul they deliver lands straight in the Maw and they still decide to continue their duty after this is revealed to them. There's even a quest pointing this out (Where a Soul Belongs + Faith Through the Darkness) where you get a soul with Kleia, bring it before the arbiter only to find it broken and then the soul ends up in the Maw. Kleia then tells the other Kyrians and they say "Yeah, we know and kinda don't care. Not our job. Now get back to hauling these souls, kiddo".

Yep and the big 5 and those tasked to ferry the souls are the only ones who know. The VAST majority have no fucking clue hence why Kleia was surprised when she found out. So why are most the Kyrians confused by the Maw's growth? Most of them do not know... All they know is how the system is designed to work but don't get to touch it. To the best of my knowledge we are never presented with the side efects of the Kyrians stopping their job. This is where the problem with the writing is. As we both know the higher ups know the problem but we as the player are like "why not do the obvious thing?" and blizzard fails to tell us that. Like yea lets attack the writing there cause they could insert a million and 1 reasons, they just didnt.