[Megathread] The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited

[Witchblade77]

So, watned to buy End of Dragons but could not. Website and ingame store has apparently problems with my credit card, ie dont get prompt from bank to accept transaction. So looking generally for new mmo after wow. Since there is ESO and i loved ESO lore how the game holds up now? Last time checked at summerset, i know there are 2 expansions, one in skyrim with vamps and now with daedra.

Basically, sell the game.

couple of points.

the game is really best played with subscription. inventory management is possible without, but is a huge HUGE pain.

all but the latest expansion are included with subscription. they do not unlock permanently like with swtor, but as long as you are subscribed, you can acess them. you can also play the game without subscription, you just only get acess to things you purchased directly (all the prior expacs are also available to buy from cash shop with crowns, or can be gifted to you, gold to crown exchange IS a thing, but you have to be careful when vetoing whom you trade with, as its not secured the way wow token sales are)

there was one other expansion after summerset - Khajiit lands, aka Elsweyr, both the regions of Anequina (for the expac) and Pelletine (for later DLC).

in couple of weeks, there is going to be Blackwood (daedra latest expac) event, during which expac should be on sale. I would wait to buy it till then, personaly. Skyrim expac added new system, ESO's version of archeology, it consists of two minigames - scrying and digging and while it can take a while to level (there are guides that help though), you can also get mythic gear items through it and some of them are pretty powerful.

combat is same old. if you enjoyed quests before, you will still enjoy them now. at least one of the characters you meet in summerset, makes appearance in latest expac. last story DLC added another solo arena. it is harder then Maelstrom. current multi event collections involve a hypogriff mount. it doesn't fly, but it looks pretty cool . its almost over there, next item is going to be a lava house.

honestly, I would say pop into the game even without subscription. see if you still like it. give it a few days, then you can decide if you want to subscribe and by that point, newest expac will go on sale.

[Edge-]

Yo, the latest expansion has fuckin grappling hooks, what the fuck. That's rad. Granted it only seems to be at a few places (doing the companion quest on a fresh warden I started), but that's rad.

Haven't played in ages but subbed and picked up Blackwood just for the companion. Combat is still kinda meh, but it's solid so far and paying attention to quests is actually kinda fun. The writing/VO is pretty good, which makes me sad I skipped over all of it before. It's a great MMO for multi-task/chilling so far. Playing it with a gamepad with my chair reclined a bit, with something playing on my second monitor I'm watching while fighting shit/traveling and pause for quest stuff.

[Witchblade77]

Yo, the latest expansion has fuckin grappling hooks, what the fuck. That's rad. Granted it only seems to be at a few places (doing the companion quest on a fresh warden I started), but that's rad.

Haven't played in ages but subbed and picked up Blackwood just for the companion. Combat is still kinda meh, but it's solid so far and paying attention to quests is actually kinda fun. The writing/VO is pretty good, which makes me sad I skipped over all of it before. It's a great MMO for multi-task/chilling so far. Playing it with a gamepad with my chair reclined a bit, with something playing on my second monitor I'm watching while fighting shit/traveling and pause for quest stuff.

those were actualy introduced in Elseweyr - there is a jumping puzzles sort of achievement there, you used them in multiple dungeons as well as newest arena, they are in a few places, not just Miri's mission but yeah, they are kinda fun. funny thing is Blackwood is one of their weaker expansions in terms of story, so if you are enjoying it, you may enjoy older expacs even more.

[GreenJesus]

I would only play ESO as a casual. I tried getting into end-game before and trying to get above a certain ratio of light attack weave/animation cancelling is just impossible for me. I tried practicing on dummies and watched videos for hours on how to do it correctly, but the metronome in my head just doesn't work. I think a 1 second GCD is just too fast for this game. Having to fit a light attack between each 1 second GCD spell is just too much. I feel exhausted after each DPS dummy attempt.

[Edge-]

I would only play ESO as a casual. I tried getting into end-game before and trying to get above a certain ratio of light attack weave/animation cancelling is just impossible for me. I tried practicing on dummies and watched videos for hours on how to do it correctly, but the metronome in my head just doesn't work.

I'm technically DPS this time though I usually play healer but like...does animation canceling actually matter outside of like, raids and veteran dungeons and shit? Literally zero interest in ever bothering with that since it seems annoying, but as long as I don't need it for "normal" content I'm fine with the hardcores playing around with it.

[GreenJesus]

I'm technically DPS this time though I usually play healer but like...does animation canceling actually matter outside of like, raids and veteran dungeons and shit? Literally zero interest in ever bothering with that since it seems annoying, but as long as I don't need it for "normal" content I'm fine with the hardcores playing around with it.

No. It doesn't matter. You will probably do like 50% less DPS (20k instead of 40k for example), but outside of veteran dungeons or veteran raids it doesn't matter. Normal base dungeons I can easily solo as a DPS before anyone can even catch up to me.

Even normal trials are usually easy enough that just semi-following the mechanics, the raid will just zerg through it. There's not many hard DPS checks in normal trials.

[Fkiolaris]

I'm technically DPS this time though I usually play healer but like...does animation canceling actually matter outside of like, raids and veteran dungeons and shit? Literally zero interest in ever bothering with that since it seems annoying, but as long as I don't need it for "normal" content I'm fine with the hardcores playing around with it.

If the game is still tuned like 3 expansions ago (I know, I know), yes it does. The difference is not 50%, it's more 75+ (or it was, 22k vs 95k). And if the new normal dungeons are still following the path of difficulty increase from that era, they are definitely going to need more than just "press your abilities" kind of gameplay.

Someone who is more up-to-date with the game can correct me on the above if I am wrong.

[GreenJesus]

If the game is still tuned like 3 expansions ago (I know, I know), yes it does. The difference is not 50%, it's more 75+ (or it was, 22k vs 95k). And if the new normal dungeons are still following the path of difficulty increase from that era, they are definitely going to need more than just "press your abilities" kind of gameplay.

Someone who is more up-to-date with the game can correct me on the above if I am wrong.

I think there was a slight nerf to light attack weaving so it wasn't AS drastic as you say. But I haven't played since around Greymoore launched.

[Witchblade77]

If the game is still tuned like 3 expansions ago (I know, I know), yes it does. The difference is not 50%, it's more 75+ (or it was, 22k vs 95k). And if the new normal dungeons are still following the path of difficulty increase from that era, they are definitely going to need more than just "press your abilities" kind of gameplay.

Someone who is more up-to-date with the game can correct me on the above if I am wrong.

you are not wrong. at least when it comes to dlc dungeons. normal dungeons can be done by not ignoring boss/trash mechanics. they will take you longer, but they are doable.

source - personaly soloing all of the part 1 dungeons and a bunch (though not all) unnumbered vanilla dungeons. I don't weave at ALL and my dps while in those dungeons usually hovers around 6k sometimes less if I have to move around more. I do self heal a lot.

[Tyris Flare]

Constantly hoping they announce a major systems overhaul for a new expansion for this game so it doesn't play horribly but I know it will never happen and it makes me sad.

[dlld]

Constantly hoping they announce a major systems overhaul for a new expansion for this game so it doesn't play horribly but I know it will never happen and it makes me sad.

They won't even if they want to themselves, the current elitist community throws a hissy fit to any suggested change to the combat so it doesn't seem worth making such changes and possibly losing current players for potential new players.

[Tyris Flare]

Probably, it's not just animation cancelling though. Just so many fundamental problems with combat, from responsiveness to ability design. They have been trying to bandaid over massive core issues from the stam/magika system from the beginning and still haven't figured it out.

[Witchblade77]

honestly, every time they do, it just keeps getting worse. it wasn't as horrible until they started messing with sustain in Morrowind expac. its been going downhill since then with every combat update, IMO.

and yes, it doesn't help that people who love weaving do not seem to understand between animation canceling as it exists in ESO and animation canceling as it exists in other games, including action games they are utterly convinced that removing weaving means they won't be able to cancel any animations EVER and as such - be unable to dodge. when in reality, USUALY animation canceling means that you cancel your ability, not just its animation.

meanwhile... half the time I hit block it doesn't actualy block, indications of how long to hold it might as well not exist, and all the other fun stuff...

meanwhile.. without any speed boosts pots or grouping or whatever, animation canceling as I have accidentally discovered is the only way do to Bergama Sprint holiday daily within the achievement time limits (but you have to time it just right - too early and you do cancel the action, too late and you take too long to get the achievement). sigh.. itsa mess.

I love this game for many reasons and I do love being able to move around at will and just actiony feel of it, but at the same time, the degree of precision, reflexes, practice, etc that is required to do it at a level needed for harder group content? its too much. its awful. but too many vocal people love it too much for ZoS to outright rework it, so they keep trying bandaid solutions that just make things worse.

[Tyris Flare]

For me personally, I play basically every ES game as a stealth archer sniping people (usually with the difficulty up so there's actually a benefit to it) almost like a Ghost Recon game, but bows in ESO just feel so awful and basically all the solo content is running in and melting entire packs with 2 abilities. Just so unsatisfying and unimmersive.

[Fencers]

meanwhile... half the time I hit block it doesn't actualy block, indications of how long to hold it might as well not exist, and all the other fun stuff...

This is a big reason as to what pissed me off about the combat over time. I always reached a point of frustration that the animation synching with input press essentially was based on internal logic mysterious to me. I only played as a melee tank and this type of thing made me frustrated all the time.

I thought the class builds/system was pretty lame too; so that didn't help any.

I loved adventuring in the world though. Felt more like what I consider to be Elder Scrolls (Arena through Morrowind) than the last two TES games. I enjoyed myself. But that combat really got on my nerves!

[Graeham]

There's so much about the game that I enjoy, yet it's always the combat system that puts me off and prevents ESO from ever becoming my primary MMO.

I went with a Nightblade simply because I knew I wanted to sneak around, pick locks and avoid unnecessary fights. The quests are generally well written, though it's annoying when an enemy is hyped up as a big threat but melts in a few seconds. I wish we had more options for scaling - I don't want to be able to kill most things in a couple of hits.

Other players also end up feeling more like a hindrance than a help. If they're around when I'm fighting an enemy, then it makes already trivial fights even more trivial than usual. Or they're competing for resource nodes/treasure chests that I myself want to pursue.

To say nothing of the annoying trading system. No, I don't want to join a guild specifically to do something that most MMO's let me do readily. >_>

[Fkiolaris]

you are not wrong. at least when it comes to dlc dungeons. normal dungeons can be done by not ignoring boss/trash mechanics. they will take you longer, but they are doable.

source - personaly soloing all of the part 1 dungeons and a bunch (though not all) unnumbered vanilla dungeons. I don't weave at ALL and my dps while in those dungeons usually hovers around 6k sometimes less if I have to move around more. I do self heal a lot.

Just to be clear, are you distinguishing between Normal dungeons that release with each expansion vs Normal dungeons that come with a dlc? Thanks for the clarification btw.

As to topic of fixing combat in this game, I am of the opinion that they wouldn't even have to do that (or to the required extend) had they made changes to various other systems in the game (that would be beneficial to the game in general), as well as their combat-changing habits as a dev team.

[Witchblade77]

Just to be clear, are you distinguishing between Normal dungeons that release with each expansion vs Normal dungeons that come with a dlc? Thanks for the clarification btw.

As to topic of fixing combat in this game, I am of the opinion that they wouldn't even have to do that (or to the required extend) had they made changes to various other systems in the game (that would be beneficial to the game in general), as well as their combat-changing habits as a dev team.

kinda both? a lot of vanilla (non DLC dungeons) can be soloed even by potato like me. it takes me a lot and I do mean a LOT longer, but its doable. DLC dungeons on normal can be done as long as you are not ignoring mechanics even with lower DPS. not as low as vanilla dungeons but nowhere near what some players are saying is needed. they are just going to take longer as well and you might see mechanics that are not mentioned by guides because guide makers tend to have the kind of dps that makes those mechanics not show up.

source - back when my SO was still playing (before release of companions incidentally), we used to duo DLC dungeons for story purposes. he played DPS, I played a tank with offheals hybrid (its a weird spec and I only ever used it when we duoed, but it worked for our purposes) our combined total damage was ..maaaaaybe 25kish? less on movement heavy fights. I haven't done any of the blackwood storyline dungeons - full admission there, so maybe something has changed? (I know you need 4 people for secret bosses, but that's mainly because of those stupid "must press buttons simultaneously types of mechanics" regular bosses do not require specific number of people), but we were able to do all the other dungeons. some took us much longer to figure out then others, but we did manage. companions are not as helpful as I wish they were, but they ARE still helpful.

that said, on vet... you have to be more then decent to succeed, especially with DLC dungeons.

[Fkiolaris]

kinda both? a lot of vanilla (non DLC dungeons) can be soloed even by potato like me. it takes me a lot and I do mean a LOT longer, but its doable. DLC dungeons on normal can be done as long as you are not ignoring mechanics even with lower DPS. not as low as vanilla dungeons but nowhere near what some players are saying is needed. they are just going to take longer as well and you might see mechanics that are not mentioned by guides because guide makers tend to have the kind of dps that makes those mechanics not show up.

source - back when my SO was still playing (before release of companions incidentally), we used to duo DLC dungeons for story purposes. he played DPS, I played a tank with offheals hybrid (its a weird spec and I only ever used it when we duoed, but it worked for our purposes) our combined total damage was ..maaaaaybe 25kish? less on movement heavy fights. I haven't done any of the blackwood storyline dungeons - full admission there, so maybe something has changed? (I know you need 4 people for secret bosses, but that's mainly because of those stupid "must press buttons simultaneously types of mechanics" regular bosses do not require specific number of people), but we were able to do all the other dungeons. some took us much longer to figure out then others, but we did manage. companions are not as helpful as I wish they were, but they ARE still helpful.

that said, on vet... you have to be more then decent to succeed, especially with DLC dungeons.

On the bold part, even when I stopped playing that was not always the case, if nothing else because some dungeons required at least 2 players for certain boss mechanics, even on normal. I don't remember the dungeon names on top of my head, but I can find examples if you want. Beyond that, there was a clear ramp-up in dps and expected level of play that included quite convoluted mechanics that would 1-shot people if not executed properly. Which is perfectly fine IMO, but not for normals.

Either way, you have answered my question so thanks for that, appreciated.

[Witchblade77]

On the bold part, even when I stopped playing that was not always the case, if nothing else because some dungeons required at least 2 players for certain boss mechanics, even on normal. I don't remember the dungeon names on top of my head, but I can find examples if you want. Beyond that, there was a clear ramp-up in dps and expected level of play that included quite convoluted mechanics that would 1-shot people if not executed properly. Which is perfectly fine IMO, but not for normals.

Either way, you have answered my question so thanks for that, appreciated.

oh for sure, but at the same time, I've seen people who are very good at this game - solo a lot of those as well (though it seems like changes have been made recently, but... this thread also refers to soloing on vet, not normal. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.co...to-everyone/p1 ). I know SO and I had serious issues with some of the bosses in moonhunter keep, even on normal so there is that, but I guess I failed to be clear in that I meant that DLC dungeons can be done with lower dps on normal as long as you don't ignore mechanics. so as long as the group is willing to work together - you don't need to have upper range. not even close.

it DOES suck that they seem to be adding more and more of the "you MUST be in a group to be able to do that" mechanics, whether its pressure plates, or being pinned by the boss and requiring interrupt or you are one shot that is NOT limited to aggro holder only (so you cannot negate it by having your companion do the tanking), but at the same time SO and I duoed all but the last 4 dungeons, so...


I guess what I'm trying to say is that ESO is no different from every other MMO where players want to have as easy of a time as possible so they are demanding only the highest skill/gear for their groups rather then being ok with the actual minimum that is needed to finish a run successfully.

P.S. I think they may have broken the way to cheese imperial prison and direfrost pressure plates, so those are not soloable regardless of your damage - you'll need at least 2 people. blackheart heaven final boss can be cheesed in a variety of ways.