FFXIV Spoiler thread

[Drindorai]

In Final Fantasy games there's always the villain who ends up being just crazy by the end and wants to just kill everything because screw the universe, life sucks and is awful, and death for everything would be better.

Although it does seem like Fandaniel is doing SOMETHING more than just wanting to kill everyone.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

In Final Fantasy games there's always the villain who ends up being just crazy by the end and wants to just kill everything because screw the universe, life sucks and is awful, and death for everything would be better.

This gets memed a lot, but only the Cloud of Darkness and the final boss of FF11's epilogue expansion fit the bill. Almost everyone else is trying to take over the world, is trying to spite people they don't like, or has a really specific objective (Vayne).

• FF1: Chaos wants to take over the world.

• FF2: The Emperor wants to take over the world.

• FF3: Cloud of Darkness wants to destroy everything.

• FF4: Zemus wants to take over the world.

• FF5: Exdeath wants to take over the world.

• FF6: is bored and just wants to have fun. destroys the world for the lolz, and then just lounges around being bored again. The party hunts him down and kills him to exact justice.

• FF7: Sephiroth wanted to become a god.

• FF8: wants to become a god but is stuck in a time loop.

• FF9: Kuja was having an inferiority complex and an identity crisis and resented the people who created him. Tries to spite them by destroying the world they wanted to colonize.

• FF10: Yu Yevon was a wizard who made a last ditch effort to try to save his country in war. Wound up becoming braindead and the controller of an organic/magic summon that was running on autopilot that was set to automatically destroy anything that had a dense enough population or high enough tech (supposed to be targetting Bevelle, but the war is long over and nobody knows how to turn Sin off)

• FF11: the launch final boss just wanted to take over the world. The big bad of the original storyline was a chained up god that was trying to regain power. The final boss of the epilogue expansion was trying to destroy everything.

• FF12: Vayne was "doing what had to be done" so he could set up the board for Larsa, so Larsa wouldn't have to dirty his hands and would come out in the end looking like the ideal prince. Getting taken out before he could defeat Rozzaria was disappointing but he pretty much succeeded in his goal, as he eliminated the senate and got the dangerous folks like Ghis killed. Decides to go out in a blaze of glory.

• FF13: the villain is a part of a really convoluted plan to kill as many people as possible to try to force open the gates of hell so the angels can go be with their god again.

• FF15: Ardyn is a spiteful ass who wanted to ruin the Kingdom of Lucius and extinguish its royal family.

[Drindorai]

This gets memed a lot, but only the Cloud of Darkness and the final boss of FF11's epilogue expansion fit the bill.

Not really. You laid out exactly why Kefka at the end was just crazy and wanted to kill everything for the luls and then say he wasn't, you chose to pick Yu Yevon for FFX instead of Seymour, whose literal motivation is, "Kill everything to save everyone?" and then is crazy by the end and the characters literally say this. I never said the "final villain," I said there's always a villain.

ectectect.

Once again Val being dishonest here.

[ippollite]

Okay, you got me Lead Story writer of Shadowbringers, Natsuko Ishikawa. If id have just played for like an hour longer, my mini-tantrum would have been resolved. I did NOT see that coming. I just got to the cutest cut scene where lion-o swoops them up in his arms. I had no idea it was a fakeout. Im dumb. One day i will learn to be patient and wait and not just immediately react. That day isnt today, because this is also an immediate reaction. (: Also, Lanille, second best waifu (after sophia obvs).

[RampageBW1]

I am finally going through the MSQ of the post ShB plot and... HOW DARE ELIDIBUS POSSESS ARDBERT'S BODY!? I'll tear him limb from limb! Shame I have to wait for 5.3 content to see this story concluded.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Headcanon time:

So if there's the Source and 13 shards, and the Source represents the "Real" world and each shard is a "reflection" of the Source...

...then each shard represents one of the previous Final Fantasy games, and that explains why they all have a Cid and chocobos and so on.

Wonder what that says about the 13th just being made into a useless void.

We go to Norvrandt (the 1st) in Shadowbringers and it doesn't really represent any other FF game. It has like two FF1 references, a FFV reference, a couple FF8 references, and that's pretty much it.

Also FF13 wasn't a bad game. There are only really two notable problems with the game. Yes it didn't have towns to stop by along the way but that wasn't a dealbreaker. The story wasn't bad it was presented to the player makes it seem unnecessarily convoluted. The rest of the game was amazing. Amazing aesthetics, great music. It just had the misfortune of coming out at a time when the Western gaming media's burning hatred for JRPGs was at its height in the late 2000s, so they made it out to be the worst game ever. I'd dare say FF13 is underappreciated.

[Ludek]

We go to Norvrandt (the 1st) in Shadowbringers and it doesn't really represent any other FF game. It has like two FF1 references, a FFV reference, a couple FF8 references, and that's pretty much it.

The First in it's concept is very loosely based on Final Fantasy III (which is natural since we have continuation of the Crystal Tower story there)

Then I start to wonder if the trailer progression of Dark Knight is Shadowbringers going to a Paladin on the Moon in Endwalker is pure coincidence or a nice mirror of Cecil's story in FF4.

[Tojara]

The shards aren't really suppose to represent any individual FF game, the games themselves are just filled with references because every FF game borrows from one another basically.

Shadowbringers was really good and people hype it up like crazy, but I really don't think it's better than Heavensward. Heavensward really connected with me and had just as many characters that I actually cared about, and much like Shadowbringers, told a pretty tight story focusing on one entire region. Stormblood is fine, but the Ala Mhigo stuff didn't really capture me at all. The characters were far better on the Doman side of the story IMO.

One thing that bugs me is the characters ability to forgive and forget, or at least give people a chance for repentance. It just doesn't work if you do it with every character and for me anyway, some of the characters with redemption arcs (especially Stormblood) I still didn't care about care about after some of the sequences.

Emet-Selch and Vaughtry (especially Emet) were both really good characters though, some of the best antagonists in a FF series.

Maybe it will change once Endwalker comes out, but I think Zenos is pretty bad. He's like if Goku was in a FF game.

[Tenjen]

I do wonder if there are perhaps people around on the remaining stars who are shards of Hythlodaeus? Someone on the source who is?

[Twen]

I do wonder if there perhaps people around on the remaining stars who are shards of Hythlodaeus? Someone on the source who is?

I'd like to think it to be either G'raha or Haurchefant, but I could we way off and it's also quite possible he's not meant to be anyone we know.

[Tenjen]

One thing that bugs me is the characters ability to forgive and forget, or at least give people a chance for repentance. It just doesn't work if you do it with every character and for me anyway, some of the characters with redemption arcs (especially Stormblood) I still didn't care about care about after some of the sequences.

we dont really forgive or forget and dont do it for every character either way. Chances are sometimes given if circumstances permit, but the WoL has very little tolerance if that chance is not appreciated. (Which especially seems to be a thing for the WoL after that Gridenian traitor was given a chance in the crystal braves and then screwed that up too). Its handled pretty well.

For stormblood, we literally end up cutting one down (once its in our jurisdiction to do so. We weren't going to stop Hein from doing so if he had wanted) but sympathise with the horrible lifelong circumstances which created her and took away any chance of redemption until she decided to just suicide by cop.

For the other one, she's pretty much incarcerated any time she's not being thrown at the primals still being summoned while we're unavailable. We tolerate her presence at most because others vouch for her and she is willing to contribute with her special abilities. Her people won't forgive her and consider her a monster, which is presented as justified. The last we see of her, she is heavily motivated to keep fighting for more than vague redemption because all her past motivations and sacrifices for the empire were proven to be meaningless and by design would have ended in disaster even if her goals had worked out. She's not free and is heavily burdened by her actions, which are fully held against her.

Ishgardian society as a whole in HW can be considered this, but it was our connection to ishgardian citizens with the capacity for good (the Fortempts, Hilda, etc) that helped us realize it wasn't all just rapist temple guards and extremist inquisitionists throwing innocent people off cliffs willy nilly when it isn't busy commiting other attrocities against its own people or outsiders (like that Au Ra massacre). We did pretty much slaughtered the main instigators of the war on both sides along with a shitload of their supporters and more than once went around cutting down temple knights and top officials wholesale, often right in the city especially during the DRK quests.

Our actions pretty much set about massive societal change and rejection of the values which fostered the old system, but later on in a major sidequest chain we even help the clergy scholasticate and their students when they face prejudice and violence for being part of the old system and lies which we ourselves dismantled and revealed. We do this mainly because many of them are trying to actively revise their millenia-old dogma in light of the truth and most not only don't hold our actions agaisnt us, they support what we did despite how much harm it caused to their status and the public's trust in them.

As of ShB, the WoD/WoL stated they will first understand and try to reach out to reason to people to redeem them, and if not, they will remember them. The implication of that statement is pretty badass.

[Katchii]

I always thought of the WoL like Goku. Just out looking for a fight all the time, letting the people around them do all the big talking, and then inexplicably getting enemies to turn into friends sometimes.

Sounds like just about every shonen jump hero since...ever. Goku, Ichigo, Naruto, Luffy, Natsu, Deku, Soma, Edward, Tanjiro, etc....

It's a fair point though, lol. The parallels are pretty numerous.

[Tenjen]

WoL doesnt like being involved in the politics and negotiating. Though the Varus one was pretty critical so they made an exception.

Haven't really made any enemies into friends or recruited them into the actual circle though.

[Katchii]

WoL doesnt like being involved in the politics and negotiating. Though the Varus one was pretty critical so they made an exception.

Haven't really made any enemies into friends or recruited them into the actual circle though.

Not the big ones anyway, but at least a few examples throughout the story where doubters, minor villains and whatnot end up either changing sides or at least, deciding to no longer be complete a-holes because of the WoL.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I'd like to think it to be either G'raha or Haurchefant, but I could we way off and it's also quite possible he's not meant to be anyone we know.

Can't be G'raha because then he would have awakened his Echo at the sight of the artificial starshower in 5.2.

[Lane]

I do wonder if there are perhaps people around on the remaining stars who are shards of Hythlodaeus? Someone on the source who is?

I love Hythlodaeus. It'd be nice if we met our new, old friend again although I suspect it's going to be in flashbacks if anything.

Can't be G'raha because then he would have awakened his Echo at the sight of the artificial starshower in 5.2.

I don't believe getting the Echo is guaranteed and I'm under the impression that having a sundered soul at all means the person is an Ancient. As I understand it, they are the only ones who reincarnate 'whole' (as much as able) while every other living creature have their aether dispersed upon death to be reformed into something different. I think it was Alisaie who said she still felt an overwhelming sense of loss at the star shower, but also didn't get it. I don't know why anyone but an Ancient soul would feel that.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

we dont really forgive or forget and dont do it for every character either way.

I thought Laurentius was pretty good. He was a greedy, gullible kid who took a risk trying to sell out his people for money and got busted because he wasn't smart. You take a risk and give him a second chance, hoping he has legitimately changed (this happens when the WoL is still early in their career and hasn't fought in any wars yet)... and then he repeats the same mistake twice. And eventually gets caught and hanged.

I give Fordola a pass because from her perspective, what other choice did she have? Her country had been occupied for the past 25 years. By that point most of the able bodied men who were capable of resisting had either 1. given in and accepted reality, 2. died resisting, 3. fled across the border, or 4. joined one of those tiny resistance camps, hoping that someone was going to come save them because they don't have the manpower or the resources to liberate their country. Resistance was hopeless. Most resistance movements don't survive longer than a generation, as the new generation grows up domesticated/indoctrinated and accepting of the way things are, unwilling to risk the life they know for a glory age they had never seen, only told to them by a dwindling amount of old geezers.

Yotsuyuu I can't sympathize with. Yeah what happened to her during childhood was awful... but then she starts trying to kill off and torture her people and ruin her country?

To me, the real offender is Gaius. If you watch the 1.0 cutscenes on Youtube, apparently Gaius was so absolutely hated by the people of Ala Mhigo, that the resistance there crossed the border into Eorzea to hunt him down and kill him. And then in ARR he threatens to use the Ultima Weapon to nuke and cities that don't surrender to him. That's 100% unambiguously evil. But then Stormblood happens and starts bending over backwards trying to say "no no, Gaius was THE GOOD governor before the evil Zenos came along!", and the game starts trying to tell us "Gaius was an idealistic Garlean! He didn't know how evil the Empire was!". No. Gaius is... what? A 50+ year old man? And one of the highest ranking generals of the Empire? There is no way Gaius could have spent that long climbing up the ranks and attained his position without being aware of how overall evil the Empire was (this comes at a time when Stormblood and Shadowbringers were really eviling up the Empire, whereas in ARR and HW they weren't anywhere near as ridiculously evil). So his "sudden realization" feels stupid to me. It's also rather grating how he happens to be beloved by a province he brutally conquered and had their able bodied men rounded up and publicly executed. So beloved that by the end of that storyline, there is no one who hates him and they apparently all want him back to rule them. Bullocks.

As of ShB, the WoD/WoL stated they will first understand and try to reach out to reason to people to redeem them, and if not, they will remember them. The implication of that statement is pretty badass.

That statement would hold weight if the WoL was going around telling the story of Amaurot or wrote a short book about it and had it mass produced by marmets and distributed by post-moogles.

As for Emet and Elidibus... they're okay, though it starts to get grating when the writer pulls the same "monstrous villain has a sympathetic backstory reveal right before they die" stunt 5 times in a row. Really hoping that the writer doesn't pull it a 5th time in a row with Endwalker. This trope has become ubiquitous in modern entertainment and it's annoying and tiresome. People can be evil just because.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

"Just wanna destroy the world herkaderka" gets old much quicker, honestly.

Not every villain has to be trying to destroy the world. Maybe some just want to conquer a country. Maybe some just want to conduct horrific experiments to try to become stronger or attain godhood. Maybe some just want to had the most thrilling sword fight ever and want to antagonize as many people as possible in the hopes that they will become motivated to get strong and fight him. Etc. Many of the most memorable game villains in my mind were evil, hammy, and most importantly, executed well.

The Ascians pre-ShB weren't executed well. They weren't fun or memorable. They were just a bore.

[Lane]

As for Emet and Elidibus... they're okay, though it starts to get grating when the writer pulls the same "monstrous villain has a sympathetic backstory reveal right before they die" stunt 5 times in a row. Really hoping that the writer doesn't pull it a 5th time in a row with Endwalker. This trope has become ubiquitous in modern entertainment and it's annoying and tiresome. People can be evil just because.

I hate chaotic evil villains. I need there to be some kind of motivation that isn't stupidly or hypocritically bad. It's one of the reasons I don't like Sylvanas anymore. Everything she's done is within that stupid<->hypocritical realm.

Emet and Elidibus were more antagonists than villains. Frankly, every "evil" thing they get criticized for modern humanity does on a daily basis. I can't argue that ShB was a lore dump. It seemed like until then they had no idea what they were doing with the Ascians. It's one of my gripes with EW ushering in a whole new story. Yes, the Zodiark & Hydaelyn arc has been going on since at least 2.0, but it wasn't fleshed out until ShB. It doesn't feel like an 8 year long storyline when the major elements were side characters at best who weren't addressed in depth until recently.

Ardyn in FFXV is my favorite villain. First of all, that man deserved his revenge. However, he's executing it upon a generation and world that had nothing to do with the tragedy he experienced. Interestingly enough, he almost falls into the realm of the video you linked, Bahamut ends up being the actual big bad who condemned Ardyn to his fate.

[Deneios]

Moustache twirling villains with no proper motivation except just be evil are boring. MCU Thanos is a good villain because he has a goal but he goes about it in a twisted way.
Ascians have a goal of undo the sundering of their world. The problem is that it requires the current world to cease to exist. WoL and most people want to keep living in Eorzea thus the goals are on collision course. Both parties have a reason for their actions.