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  1. #781
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    I think the main problem from FF14, the one i faced with my main character, is that there is not much things to do at Shadowbringers endgame. Other than collect currency and buy armor styles. Other than that, i havent been able to check what else it has to offer. I got tired fast of Shadowbringers for some reason....But i returned to older content to play alt jobs.
    While yes there is a lack of meaningful content to do, I am glad that there is minimal padding. It's not like WoW or GW2 where your progression through the content is heavily padded by timegating and grinds. FFXIV respects my time. I just do the content and then I'm done. Maybe I stick around and do Gold Saucer and PvP when I feel like it. The only real grind is levelling up alt jobs or doing the relic weapons.

  2. #782
    go for it, will be good

  3. #783
    Well I played for 6 months, but I’m quitting til Endwalker as of tomorrow.

    It’s a good game, but the terrible engine, wonky servers, and many of the limitations they cause are the big things that wore me down.

    Hopefully they either do an overhaul to their back end or move the bulk of their resources onto a next gen FF MMO after Endwalker.

    Preferably a next gen MMO.

  4. #784
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    Hopefully they either do an overhaul to their back end or move onto a next gen FF MMO after Endwalker.

    Preferably a next gen MMO.
    Firstly, I doubt we will get another big budget MMO again. MMOs are quite possibly the #1 most expensive genre of game to develop and to maintain. You need to employ an army of artists and animators to make your world and hundreds of monsters and to animate all of them and give players their hundreds of different animations required. Those artists usually live in a place with a very high cost of living (Silicon Valley or LA in California, or Austin Texas, or Tokyo, etc). So the upfront costs are very high. And then you have the standard marketing strategy of sinking hundreds of millions of dollars into advertising.

    FFXIV began development in 2005... right when WoW and was an unprecedented smash success for the video games industry. Everyone wanted their own WoW clone to double dip in that "sell players a $60 game AND charge them $15 a month!" and rake in the cash. When the game finally released in 2010 and flopped, it was still in a climate in which the big developers still hadn't given up on the themepark MMO yet. WoW was still on it's meteoric rise in subscribers and the titans, SWTOR and GW2, were still just around the corner, so from a business perspective a FF themepark MMO still had a chance to be a success. That and Japanese pride to salvage the tarnished name of the FF franchise (the 2000s were pretty bad for Square, with the movie flopping so they had to merge. And FFXII, FFXIII, and Versus XIII had legendarily troubled development cycles).

    Nowadays, MMOs are pretty much a near dead genre. All of the true, oldschool MMOs like Ultima Online or Ragnarok or SWG are either dead or have servers with only a few hundred players, most only currently existing as private servers. The mobile port (and remaster or remake?) of FFXI was cancelled a couple years ago. Every themepark MMO that isn't named WoW, GW2, or ESO are in sorry shapes and are in a very late term milking phase, soon to go on life support if not shut down entirely (SWTOR, STO, LOTRO, Rift, Camelot Unchained, Crowfall, Shroud of the Avatar, etc). WoW is a hollow shell of its former shelf, and being eclipsed by FFXIV isn't much to write home about when FFXIV still lives in the shadow of golden age WoW from over a decade ago, still towering over it with at least 5x as many subscribers at its height. The rest have been dead for years. The biggest MMO coming out in years, the new Lord of the Rings MMO by Amazon, has been cancelled. Apparently not even they think that the new TV show will give enough of a bump of interest in the IP to make a new LoTR MMO successful.

    Rockstar gaming culture has died. You no longer have companies like oldschool Blizzard or ArenaNet that passionately make games - not to make the most money possible - but because they want to have fun, and were okay making high production quality masterpieces aimed at niche audiences. They've all been converged and have become soulless companies that chase after as wide of a market as possible and making as much money as possible. MMOs ceased being the most profitable trend to chase a decade ago. LoL happened and the craze became MOBAs. Then battle royals became the trend, but now they're no longer very trendy. Current conventional wisdom says to just make shitty mobile games.

    Unless SAO's FullDive Gear becomes a reality, we will likely never get a high budget MMO again. Looking at the abysmal state of the Western AAA industry (and just look at the decline of the Japanese games' industry. Many studios and IPs did not survive the transition to HD), we're quite lucky we're even getting FF16 at all.
    Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss; 2021-09-10 at 04:09 AM.

  5. #785
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Firstly, I doubt we will get another big budget MMO again. MMOs are quite possibly the #1 most expensive genre of game to develop and to maintain. You need to employ an army of artists and animators to make your world and hundreds of monsters and to animate all of them and give players their hundreds of different animations required. Those artists usually live in a place with a very high cost of living (Silicon Valley or LA in California, or Austin Texas, or Tokyo, etc). So the upfront costs are very high. And then you have the standard marketing strategy of sinking hundreds of millions of dollars into advertising.

    FFXIV began development in 2005... right when WoW and was an unprecedented smash success for the video games industry. Everyone wanted their own WoW clone to double dip in that "sell players a $60 game AND charge them $15 a month!" and rake in the cash. When the game finally released in 2010 and flopped, it was still in a climate in which the big developers still hadn't given up on the themepark MMO yet. WoW was still on it's meteoric rise in subscribers and the titans, SWTOR and GW2, were still just around the corner, so from a business perspective a FF themepark MMO still had a chance to be a success. That and Japanese pride to salvage the tarnished name of the FF franchise (the 2000s were pretty bad for Square, with the movie flopping so they had to merge. And FFXII, FFXIII, and Versus XIII had legendarily troubled development cycles).

    Nowadays, MMOs are pretty much a near dead genre. All of the true, oldschool MMOs like Ultima Online or Ragnarok or SWG are either dead or have servers with only a few hundred players, most only currently existing as private servers. The mobile port (and remaster or remake?) of FFXI was cancelled a couple years ago. Every themepark MMO that isn't named WoW, GW2, or ESO are in sorry shapes and are in a very late term milking phase, soon to go on life support if not shut down entirely (SWTOR, STO, LOTRO, Rift, Camelot Unchained, Crowfall, Shroud of the Avatar, etc). WoW is a hollow shell of its former shelf, and being eclipsed by FFXIV isn't much to write home about when FFXIV still lives in the shadow of golden age WoW from over a decade ago, still towering over it with at least 5x as many subscribers at its height. The rest have been dead for years. The biggest MMO coming out in years, the new Lord of the Rings MMO by Amazon, has been cancelled. Apparently not even they think that the new TV show will give enough of a bump of interest in the IP to make a new LoTR MMO successful.

    Rockstar gaming culture has died. You no longer have companies like oldschool Blizzard or ArenaNet that passionately make games - not to make the most money possible - but because they want to have fun, and were okay making high production quality masterpieces aimed at niche audiences. They've all been converged and have become soulless companies that chase after as wide of a market as possible and making as much money as possible. MMOs ceased being the most profitable trend to chase a decade ago. LoL happened and the craze became MOBAs. Then battle royals became the trend, but now they're no longer very trendy. Current conventional wisdom says to just make shitty mobile games.

    Unless SAO's FullDive Gear becomes a reality, we will likely never get a high budget MMO again. Looking at the abysmal state of the Western AAA industry (and just look at the decline of the Japanese games' industry. Many studios and IPs did not survive the transition to HD), we're quite lucky we're even getting FF16 at all.
    I mean, there are at least 2 new high budget MMO’s in development right now that I’m aware of - AOC and Riots unannounced MMO.

    So there are definitely major western MMOs on the horizon, though I hear what you’re saying about the current climate being not what it was.

    I don’t think the future is the quest to dungeon to raid MMO formula EQ and then WoW popularized, I think the future is going to be more metaverse esque where there will be dungeons/raids that are more of just another side thing you can do, rather than the primary. I see the future of MMOs leaning more into social lifestyle aspects like second life than grind and raid games like EQ.

    FF has tons of nostalgia and characters and worlds that would be a great foundation for something like that. Itd be smart of them to lean on nostalgia and make a next gen FF MMO as something more like “FF online” where they could make use of all their FF characters and worlds if they wanted rather than a FF17 or whatever that would essentially be like FF14 with a new coat of paint.

    I think future MMOs will be fundamentally different and built to last decades with current tech being as good as it is, unlike FF14, which has a much more finite shelf life. I personally dont see it having much appeal to the masses beyond Endwalker without major back end revamps.

    They did a great job patching the game up, but it’s innately bad in a lot of ways because of bad decisions made with 1.0 that seemingly can’t really be fixed and will always turn people off the game.

    A new FF MMO has the potential of real mass appeal and why I think it’s plausible.
    Last edited by Mojo03; 2021-09-10 at 06:53 AM.

  6. #786
    Idk about unplayable but I did not enjoy that last raid of ARR like, at all it was at least 80% super wordy cutscenes and that's not remotely hyperbole.

    Kind of hated it actually.

  7. #787
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyrinx View Post
    Idk about unplayable but I did not enjoy that last raid of ARR like, at all it was at least 80% super wordy cutscenes and that's not remotely hyperbole.

    Kind of hated it actually.
    Ya, the Praetorium is a well known bad spot in the game in the community.

    Everyone hates it.

    Good news is it's the only instance like that in the whole game.

  8. #788
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    Well I played for 6 months, but I’m quitting til Endwalker as of tomorrow.

    It’s a good game, but the terrible engine, wonky servers, and many of the limitations they cause are the big things that wore me down.

    Hopefully they either do an overhaul to their back end or move the bulk of their resources onto a next gen FF MMO after Endwalker.

    Preferably a next gen MMO.
    What's wrong with the servers?

  9. #789
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    What's wrong with the servers?
    Server ticks and things like improving the glamour system to be like WoW's transmog and collection system, for example, aren't possible because of limitations of their servers (from what I've heard).

  10. #790
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    Ya, the Praetorium is a well known bad spot in the game in the community.

    Everyone hates it.

    Good news is it's the only instance like that in the whole game.
    Oh well that's good, because man it REALLY sucked lol. Had family aggro, needed to be done and it took 20 mins of dialogue and 2 mins of fighting to get thru that final fight....

  11. #791
    I am Murloc!
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    Luckily they never do anything like the Praetorium again. Pretty sure it takes 45-50 minutes total, where it's like 35 minutes of dialogue and 10 minutes of actually fighting. The other scenario is by contrast a lot faster.

    Unless you somehow wipe a lot, most dungeons are like 20 minutes and each individual trial or raid boss (not savage or extreme) is 3-8 minutes long typically. I pretty much only died in dungeons half a dozen times from 1-80, with probably a dozen wipes total in all of the raid/trial content I did. One of the trials I wiped to three times simply because the action sequence event half way through the battle requires everybody to do it successfully, to which we failed it three times.

    I hate action sequence button prompt things in games. I disliked them before they popped up in FF14 and wiping several times because somebody couldn't spam their keyboard or controller was really annoying. Had we just wiped cause a lot of people fell off the side or got hit by mechanics I would've been fine with.

  12. #792
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    Server ticks and things like improving the glamour system to be like WoW's transmog and collection system, for example, aren't possible because of limitations of their servers (from what I've heard).
    I've heard it had to do with the PS3 hardware limitations. Could be BS as I haven't seen any dev explanation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    Ya, the Praetorium is a well known bad spot in the game in the community.

    Everyone hates it.

    Good news is it's the only instance like that in the whole game.
    They should completely scrap it as a raid, make it a lengthy cinematic that it practically is or a solo duty.
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  13. #793
    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    I've heard it had to do with the PS3 hardware limitations. Could be BS as I haven't seen any dev explanation.

    - - - Updated - - -.
    I know that for sure created a lot of limitations, such an why it's not an actual open world, and many many other things.

    I'm not sure the glamour system update is one of them. I remember someone saying Yoshi-P said it was a server thing, but I could be wrong.

  14. #794
    I think the reason we don't have the WoW style transmog system is because it'd require a big overhaul to all of the glam stuff. They also don't have a good way of letting you pick one of the models or see which ones you don't have.

    They don't need to store the HQ models since the appearance of NQ and HQ are the same, but they do need an index of all appearances for each slot, then to store a blob of bits for which ones you have collected. If there are 400 unique appearances per slot, that's 400 bits * 12 per character, or 4.6 KB per character, which isn't a lot of storage, but you'd have to process that and create an interface to let you browse them, and opcodes that will retrieve a page of bits. Once a glam is applied, it can just reference the item ID like it does today, though I'm assuming it just refers to the item ID and not the specific item ID you have, which would be really weird (but hey it was 1.0, they did weird shit like that).

    Importantly, they'd have to do things like a one-time sweep of your inventories for the migration, and append to this list every patch, while also ripping out all the old glam stuff. And the selection would have to work in the dresser which would become less a dresser and more just for setting up plates.

    I feel like they could probably get a few people to work on this for a few months and get it done, and it should help with the storage issues because people could finally just get rid of all the items they're holding onto for glam only, and all that space in the dresser goes away, which is probably more space than is used by the bit fields.

  15. #795
    the main hold back for the glam system is that its covered in spagetti code, any changes to improve it bring the whole system down and it will take time to figure out and change it into something different.

    Its like the default bag slot from WoW. so much built ontop of a jenga tower.

  16. #796
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    Oh come on....You havent seen the code, you dont work for SQUARE ENIX. None of us do.

    There is no way for you to see that code...
    I get what you're saying, but Yoshi has done interviews where he's like "Yeah the glammer code is spaghetti as fuck, it's caused us heaps of problems"
    Quote Originally Posted by Addiena
    Whats the saying .. You have two brain cells and they are both fighting for third place !

  17. #797
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    I gave up about a month ago in Stormblood. The Doma storyline was so boring and I was way more invested in Ala Mhigo than The Far East sections. Also the not-Vashji'r zone ended up being a massive dissapointment compared to Vashji'r which is probably still my favourite zone in wow. Combat was still equal parts boring and frustrating (SAM the best of what I've played but heavily carried by great animations) with every melee dps feeling quite samey because of the combo system. Generally speaking boss trials were fun, although the story surrounding them became increasingly tiring as as soon as I met a beast tribe I knew what was coming. Outside of combat I have to complain about the zones too. Outside of cities the world is so flat and drab compared to WoW or even other MMOs like swtor. Just a miasma of low-res textures reminscent of the ps2 era. Unfortunately the dungeons suffer from bland areas aswell. A shame because the MSQ had some really great moments and the characterisation was improving drastically up to Stormblood. I'll probably come back and play some more because Shadowbringers has such a great reputation but wow the middle of Stormblood blows. Still think my favourite thing in the whole game is the bard instruments, they do such an amazing job of making cities feel alive with other players.

  18. #798
    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    I've heard it had to do with the PS3 hardware limitations. Could be BS as I haven't seen any dev explanation.

    - - - Updated - - -



    They should completely scrap it as a raid, make it a lengthy cinematic that it practically is or a solo duty.
    I wonder if they ever drop PS3 support.

    My honest wish for this game would to have a sequel but like with everything that XIV has, literally everything BUT written for newer platforms and with some code rewritten. Mostly UI and net code.
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  19. #799
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    I wonder if they ever drop PS3 support.
    They did, years ago

  20. #800
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosaro123 View Post
    Oh come on....You havent seen the code, you dont work for SQUARE ENIX. None of us do.

    There is no way for you to see that code...
    The devs are very open about this and the odd circumstances surrounding the limitations point in that direction. Like how glam chests are specifically limited to certain rooms only. The only exception is the GC squad room but if you look at it, its just a bigger inn room.
    Last edited by Tenjen; 2021-09-15 at 06:08 AM.

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