Capital cities strength and defenses

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

How strong and defensible are each of the capital cities of the various nations and kingdoms of Azeroth ? What are the advantages and weaknesses of each city ? How hard would it be to attack and siege each of them ?

The capital cities in question are all heatlhy and with all their defenses and defenders at their disposal.

Which ones should be the easiest to attack and/or siege ? Which ones should be the most densible and hardest to take ?

[Feanoro]

As strong or weak as the latest twist in World of Sylvanas demands it.

Old lore wise:
Ironforge is by far the strongest, withstanding the Old Horde (possibly the Legion as well? I'm trying to recall a half-remembered lore nugget). Barring modern absurd cosmic powers and superweapons, the only real weak point is the Deeprun Tram station, though an attacker would have to get through Stormwind to really use that. Even then, it could be collapsed and blocked up if an attack was anticipated.

[Sondrelk]

As strong or weak as the latest twist in World of Sylvanas demands it.

Old lore wise:
Ironforge is by far the strongest, withstanding the Old Horde (possibly the Legion as well? I'm trying to recall a half-remembered lore nugget). Barring modern absurd cosmic powers and superweapons, the only real weak point is the Deeprun Tram station, though an attacker would have to get through Stormwind to really use that. Even then, it could be collapsed and blocked up if an attack was anticipated.

Don't forget that the Deeprun tram could in theory be connected to Gnomeregan as well, which is another equally defensible city with opportunities for indoor agriculture if it is ever retaken.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

As strong or weak as the latest twist in World of Sylvanas demands it.

Old lore wise:
Ironforge is by far the strongest, withstanding the Old Horde (possibly the Legion as well? I'm trying to recall a half-remembered lore nugget). Barring modern absurd cosmic powers and superweapons, the only real weak point is the Deeprun Tram station, though an attacker would have to get through Stormwind to really use that. Even then, it could be collapsed and blocked up if an attack was anticipated.

Well let's just use the real lore and act as if it isn't Danuser and modern writers' story.

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Don't forget that the Deeprun tram could in theory be connected to Gnomeregan as well, which is another equally defensible city with opportunities for indoor agriculture if it is ever retaken.

Yep Gnomeregan is a very formidable itself against an attacking army as the Horde found out the hard way during the Second War.

[Felthan]

we using wow logic or logic, because no city would be defendable with warlocks and mages being able to open up portals then having bombs or plagues dropped in to wipe out a city. WoW logic would be Dalran since it can move around.

[Lynnaroo]

Thunderbluff could be very difficult to siege on foot, but with the consideration of flying, probably one of the easiest to siege. The alliance could just theoretically fly an airship over and firebomb it. Literally everything would easily catch on fire.

Silvermoon could be difficult if they used magic to shield from outside threats again. Without that, I don't know how they would hold up.

[mysticx]

Thunderbluff could be very difficult to siege on foot, but with the consideration of flying, probably one of the easiest to siege. The alliance could just theoretically fly an airship over and firebomb it. Literally everything would easily catch on fire.

Silvermoon could be difficult if they used magic to shield from outside threats again. Without that, I don't know how they would hold up.

TB would be easy, airdrop a few elemental shaman and it’s beef patties all around the base of the place. :P

Ironforge seems most defensible, only two entrances (Deeprun tram and the main gate), which can be closed up fairly easily, you can’t airdrop people in there either because it’s underground.

But yeah, if the latest storyline demands it, any city can be walked into as easily as a public park…

[Aresk]

Darnassus, because you can only reach it through the powers of the Bronze dragon flight, and getting them to send forth a force strong enough to take it is even more ludicrous than the effort spent to destroy it the first time.

[Rhlor]

How strong and defensible are each of the capital cities of the various nations and kingdoms of Azeroth ? What are the advantages and weaknesses of each city ? How hard would it be to attack and siege each of them ?

The capital cities in question are all heatlhy and with all their defenses and defenders at their disposal.

Which ones should be the easiest to attack and/or siege ? Which ones should be the most densible and hardest to take ?

silvermoon should be impenetrable, now that the sunwell returned so did the magic shield

[Combatbutler]

With Azerite around, no capital should be save nor be defendable.

[loras]

How strong and defensible are each of the capital cities of the various nations and kingdoms of Azeroth ? What are the advantages and weaknesses of each city ? How hard would it be to attack and siege each of them ?

The capital cities in question are all heatlhy and with all their defenses and defenders at their disposal.

Which ones should be the easiest to attack and/or siege ? Which ones should be the most densible and hardest to take ?

Let's see what i can recall...

Ironforge has been mentioned plenty often now as the most defensible, and rightfully so i think, though people forget that it has an airport entrance as well, lorewise.

Silvermoon is prominently mentioned in lore, even the rampsging Scourge had issue breaking into it and likely would have rather left it alone if they didn't need the Sunwell.

Gilneas did succesfully keep out the Scourge, though having no Sunwell to draw attention is certainly a boon there.

Orgrimmar is mentioned as having been located in that crag precisely out of defensive considerations.

Teldrassil was no joke either, requiring literal betrayal by their goddess to fall.

Lordaeron was a ruin, a defendable ruin but a ruin nonetheless, and it fell as expected.

Thunderbluff is unassailable from short term ground assault, but otherwise poorly defensible.

Zuldazar and whatever the Kul Tiran city was killed were seen in game:
- Zuldazar required an at-that-point superior Alliance army and fell to it quite thoroughly, even if ut was quickly retaken this does not speak well of its defensibility
- Kul Tiras' capital required absence of own defensive forces in addition to betrayal, but fell as well

Mechagon is essentially a nuclear vault, rivalling if not surpassing Ironforge if it is locked off proper.

Suramar with its shield up is like Mechagon but yet stronger; withstanding the initial Legion invasion and the sundering easily puts it above all others - though like Mechagon at the cost of total isolation.

Thunder Totem is pretty much undefensible.

Shadowforge city required dragons and the old horde to take just the upper levels; i'd call that pretty defensible.

Gnomeregan is fairly defensible from outside assault as well.

Stormwind is decently defensible it would seem, being considered a very untasty ntarget by most after its upgrades in the wake of its sacking by the old Horde. Though Deathwing easily went in and stole back Onyxia's head, then again i doubt that even Suramar could have kept him out if he wanted in.

Dalaran is very defensible, mostly because of its magics.

Gadgetzan is isolated but not very defensible.

Shattrath is not very defensible, nor is Karabor / Black Temple.

Grim Batol seems like the least defensible of the Dwarven cities, though it has also been hit the hardest; forces of the old gods via Xal'atath's shadows, dragons enslaved to the old horde, the old horde and dark iron betrayal.

The Exodar, if considered a genuine capital, is not very defensible as we've seen.




I think that, if lockdowns á la Suramar, Dalaran (shielded) and Mechagon are disregarded, that the most defensible option is then Ironforge, follpwed shortly by the other dwarven cities.

Least defensible seem the Tauren cities, though the trolls do fairly poorly as well.

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silvermoon should be impenetrable, now that the sunwell returned so did the magic shield

It was not the Sunwell that made it so well defended, but rather the many magics woven into the lands around it, warding stones and such.

They remained partially intact and functional even after the Sunwell's destruction, so they do not depend on it for power.

And while a very defensible city the Scourge demonstrated that even at the height of their power it was never impenetrable; i would argue that it is still very far from that level of power even nowadays.

[Rhlor]

Let's see what i can recall...

Ironforge has been mentioned plenty often now as the most defensible, and rightfully so i think, though people forget that it has an airport entrance as well, lorewise.

Silvermoon is prominently mentioned in lore, even the rampsging Scourge had issue breaking into it and likely would have rather left it alone if they didn't need the Sunwell.

Gilneas did succesfully keep out the Scourge, though having no Sunwell to draw attention is certainly a boon there.

Orgrimmar is mentioned as having been located in that crag precisely out of defensive considerations.

Teldrassil was no joke either, requiring literal betrayal by their goddess to fall.

Lordaeron was a ruin, a defendable ruin but a ruin nonetheless, and it fell as expected.

Thunderbluff is unassailable from short term ground assault, but otherwise poorly defensible.

Zuldazar and whatever the Kul Tiran city was killed were seen in game:
- Zuldazar required an at-that-point superior Alliance army and fell to it quite thoroughly, even if ut was quickly retaken this does not speak well of its defensibility
- Kul Tiras' capital required absence of own defensive forces in addition to betrayal, but fell as well

Mechagon is essentially a nuclear vault, rivalling if not surpassing Ironforge if it is locked off proper.

Suramar with its shield up is like Mechagon but yet stronger; withstanding the initial Legion invasion and the sundering easily puts it above all others - though like Mechagon at the cost of total isolation.

Thunder Totem is pretty much undefensible.

Shadowforge city required dragons and the old horde to take just the upper levels; i'd call that pretty defensible.

Gnomeregan is fairly defensible from outside assault as well.

Stormwind is decently defensible it would seem, being considered a very untasty ntarget by most after its upgrades in the wake of its sacking by the old Horde. Though Deathwing easily went in and stole back Onyxia's head, then again i doubt that even Suramar could have kept him out if he wanted in.

Dalaran is very defensible, mostly because of its magics.

Gadgetzan is isolated but not very defensible.

Shattrath is not very defensible, nor is Karabor / Black Temple.

Grim Batol seems like the least defensible of the Dwarven cities, though it has also been hit the hardest; forces of the old gods via Xal'atath's shadows, dragons enslaved to the old horde, the old horde and dark iron betrayal.

The Exodar, if considered a genuine capital, is not very defensible as we've seen.




I think that, if lockdowns á la Suramar, Dalaran (shielded) and Mechagon are disregarded, that the most defensible option is then Ironforge, follpwed shortly by the other dwarven cities.

Least defensible seem the Tauren cities, though the trolls do fairly poorly as well.

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It was not the Sunwell that made it so well defended, but rather the many magics woven into the lands around it, warding stones and such.

They remained partially intact and functional even after the Sunwell's destruction, so they do not depend on it for power.

And while a very defensible city the Scourge demonstrated that even at the height of their power it was never impenetrable; i would argue that it is still very far from that level of power even nowadays.

actually the magisters could hold the magic shield themselves using the power of the sunwell that's why darkhan killed them

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Let's see what i can recall...

Ironforge has been mentioned plenty often now as the most defensible, and rightfully so i think, though people forget that it has an airport entrance as well, lorewise.

Silvermoon is prominently mentioned in lore, even the rampsging Scourge had issue breaking into it and likely would have rather left it alone if they didn't need the Sunwell.

Gilneas did succesfully keep out the Scourge, though having no Sunwell to draw attention is certainly a boon there.

Orgrimmar is mentioned as having been located in that crag precisely out of defensive considerations.

Teldrassil was no joke either, requiring literal betrayal by their goddess to fall.

Lordaeron was a ruin, a defendable ruin but a ruin nonetheless, and it fell as expected.

Thunderbluff is unassailable from short term ground assault, but otherwise poorly defensible.

Zuldazar and whatever the Kul Tiran city was killed were seen in game:
- Zuldazar required an at-that-point superior Alliance army and fell to it quite thoroughly, even if ut was quickly retaken this does not speak well of its defensibility
- Kul Tiras' capital required absence of own defensive forces in addition to betrayal, but fell as well

Mechagon is essentially a nuclear vault, rivalling if not surpassing Ironforge if it is locked off proper.

Suramar with its shield up is like Mechagon but yet stronger; withstanding the initial Legion invasion and the sundering easily puts it above all others - though like Mechagon at the cost of total isolation.

Thunder Totem is pretty much undefensible.

Shadowforge city required dragons and the old horde to take just the upper levels; i'd call that pretty defensible.

Gnomeregan is fairly defensible from outside assault as well.

Stormwind is decently defensible it would seem, being considered a very untasty ntarget by most after its upgrades in the wake of its sacking by the old Horde. Though Deathwing easily went in and stole back Onyxia's head, then again i doubt that even Suramar could have kept him out if he wanted in.

Dalaran is very defensible, mostly because of its magics.

Gadgetzan is isolated but not very defensible.

Shattrath is not very defensible, nor is Karabor / Black Temple.

Grim Batol seems like the least defensible of the Dwarven cities, though it has also been hit the hardest; forces of the old gods via Xal'atath's shadows, dragons enslaved to the old horde, the old horde and dark iron betrayal.

The Exodar, if considered a genuine capital, is not very defensible as we've seen.




I think that, if lockdowns á la Suramar, Dalaran (shielded) and Mechagon are disregarded, that the most defensible option is then Ironforge, follpwed shortly by the other dwarven cities.

Least defensible seem the Tauren cities, though the trolls do fairly poorly as well.

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It was not the Sunwell that made it so well defended, but rather the many magics woven into the lands around it, warding stones and such.

They remained partially intact and functional even after the Sunwell's destruction, so they do not depend on it for power.

And while a very defensible city the Scourge demonstrated that even at the height of their power it was never impenetrable; i would argue that it is still very far from that level of power even nowadays.

About Gilneas City, the city wasn't ever attacked by the Scourge it was Greymane Wall that was attacked.

Also Shadowforge City was never attacked by the Old Horde and dragons, it's Blackrock Spire the upper part of Blackrock Mountain that served as a base to the Horde and later black dragons. Blackrock Spire was given to the Shadow Council and then the Horde after Cho'gall negociated with the dark irons dwarves and Ragnaros' lieutnants and that the Old Gods told their followers to cede it to the orcs because they saw the Horde as a perfect tool to take out Azeroth's defenders and advance the Hour of Twilight.

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

Gilneas is decently defensive. Has a big ole wall to the north, a sea around it with little islands to stage invasions from aaand the city itself is partitioned into sectors with easily defensible bridge chokepoints with water between em.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Darnassus, because you can only reach it through the powers of the Bronze dragon flight, and getting them to send forth a force strong enough to take it is even more ludicrous than the effort spent to destroy it the first time.

In terms of silly imagination and nonsensical writing you mean, seriously as if a few siege engines could even send simple fire projectiles above several hundreds of meters in the sea and as fire projectiles can really damage or set on fire a titanic tree when living normal trees alone take a lot of efforts and special circumstances to be really set on fire, not counting all the water on and inside the tree and the druids, moon priestess and mages here.

[AcidicSyn]

Doesn't part of the Deeprun tram run under the ocean?

What would happen if a few depth charges were set off and that tunnel was cracked open? Would both Stormwind and Ironforge be flooded? Nor sure how physics works here.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Doesn't part of the Deeprun tram run under the ocean?

What would happen if a few depth charges were set off and that tunnel was cracked open? Would both Stormwind and Ironforge be flooded? Nor sure how physics works here.

It looks more like its one or several underground lakes, and both Stormwind and Ironforge are above the level of the ocean.

[AcidicSyn]

It looks more like its one or several underground lakes, and both Stormwind and Ironforge are above the level of the ocean.

Ironforge is above sea level but stormwind is at sea level no? I mean...its on the water lol

Also just checked a map and it does look like it runs under the ocean, not a few lakes. Unless thats been changed.

If if it doesn't flood (I still think it would at least impact stormwind) Still probably a better incursion point than the airfield or a frontal assault on either.

(Though if I were sieging ironforge. I would probably just blow up the tram tunnel to cut them off, cave in the entrances and just let them starve)

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Ironforge is above sea level but stormwind is at sea level no? I mean...its on the water lol

Also just checked a map and it does look like it runs under the ocean, not a few lakes. Unless thats been changed.

If if it doesn't flood (I still think it would at least impact stormwind) Still probably a better incursion point than the airfield or a frontal assault on either.

Ironforge is way above sea level and most of Stormwind is above it except the harbor. Besides I don't think that the gnomes who built Deeprun Tram dig this tunnel across a continent without having take some precautions against water to be honnest.

Also the maps tend to be inconsistent about the shape of the coasts between Ironforge and Stormwind .

[Val the Moofia Boss]

How strong and defensible are each of the capital cities of the various nations and kingdoms of Azeroth ? What are the advantages and weaknesses of each city ? How hard would it be to attack and siege each of them ?

For this question to work, you have to forget that the Alliance has humongous industry and the largest airforce in the world. The Alliance could perform bombing campaigns to level every single Horde city into oblivion and the Horde doesn't have anti-air on a large enough scale to defend against that.

Also bear in mind, that up until Legion, most Horde "cities" aren't actually cities as large as Alliance cities. The Orcs, Trolls, Tauren, Forsaken, and Blood Elves are either small hunter gatherer tribes, the 1% survivors of nations that were almost completely wiped out, or both. The Forsaken and the Blood Elves only inhabit a small fraction of Lordaeron and Quel'thelas, with the rest of the city being destroyed and uninhabitated. Contrast that with three Dwarven Kingdoms, or Stormwind, or Teldrassil, or Kul'tiras, where the cities are populated by hundreds of thousands of people, and many more thousands in the surrounding countryside. The only Horde cities with populations even remotely comparable to your average Alliance city is Zandalar. With Zandalar's population density, they are heavily dependent on food. If a bombing campaign doesn't wipe them out, then the Alliance could have their Gnomisn and Dwarven engineers, alchemists, and mages engineer agent orange and have gyrocopters or infiltrators or remote controlled gnomish robots distribute the blight across Zandalar farmland, Zandalar is wiped out by famine over the next several months. If that doesn't work, then the Alliance could just perform a frontal assault with their overwhelming industrial might and easily just level Zandalar from the sea with their huge ass artillery.

As for taking Alliance cities, honestly the Horde can't plausibly take any Alliance cities. Again, Alliance numbers dwarf the Horde's. Conventional wisdom says you need at least 3x as many attackers as defenders to win, a number the Horde has no hope of attaining. The Alliance has the industry, the agriculture, and advanced transportation networks to ship armies of thousands to anywhere in the world, and the logistics chain to sustain that army. The Horde can't build a fraction of that many ships, and every race except Zandalar doesn't even practice agriculture, so there is no way they can sustain a campaign for any length of time. Even if the Horde somehow, inexplicably could do that, the Alliance has total naval and aerial superiority so a Horde army would never reach any Alliance city in the first place. The Burning of Teldrassil was dogshit stupid. Anyone who has played Warcraft 3 knows that the Night Elf Empire alone was just as strong as the entire might of the Alliance COMBINED. They could have singlehandedly wiped out every Orc, Tauren, Troll, Goblin, and whatever beastman that waved the red flag on Kalimdor. As for the Exodar... you have to twist Warcraft's lore into some form of coherent headcanon to try to make a Horde conquest over it to make sense. In the old lore, the Horde's greatest achievement prior to the First War was... pillaging some small farming villages. Yay. How mighty is the Horde! And then TBC came along and retconned the Draenei into being the same race as the Eredar, and made the Draenei into a ridiculously powerful spacefaring race with giant shield generators and laser beams and robot armies, which makes it silly to think that stick wielding savages like the Orcs could have somehow wiped out the Draenei. The Vindicaar alone in 7.3 makes it abundantly clear just how outclassed the Horde are by just the Draenei.

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That is probably not the answer you were looking for. If you want a rational answer to your question, that ^^^ is it. If you want to headcanon some sort of bizzare medieval siege where the Alliance inexplicably doesn't make use of their vastly superior industry, technological capabilities, and numbers, to effortless crush the Horde, and just assume that they're going to stupidly assault Horde cities with armies of footmen, then the Horde's best so-called "city" is probably Thunder Bluff. Unlike Orgrimmar, where it would be possible for Alliance forces to scale the cliffs and bombard the puny orcs from above, there are no nearby cliffs looking down upon Thunder Bluff that an attacking army can scale. It would have to be a textbook siege where you surround the TB, dig in, and wait for the cows to starve and cannibalize each other. That will happen within a few days as the Tauren - like every other Horde race not named Zandalar - are hunter gatherers who don't practice agriculture.

Sorry. The Horde vs Alliance war is so imbalanced it's not even funny. This is a Japan vs the USA situation, where one side is outnumbers the other 30-to-1, has technology leagues ahead of the other, has far better actual combat experience, has an actual logistics chain, and so on. Even with a miraculous kill rate, the war is still physically impossible to win. The war was lost from the beginning.

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As for the best defended Alliance cities, there are too many to name. Teldrassil is freaking death trap where every single bear, bird, turtle, tree, and who knows what else is going to rip apart any incoming armies via attrition long before they reach the actual city atop the tree. Also good luck contending with the Night Elves, a faction unto themselves that rivals the entire Alliance combined. Also sieges won't work because they get all of their food at the top and will never be starved out.

For the Exodar, good luck getting past the shield generators, the robot armies, and the death star lasers.

The Dwarven cities are utterly unassailable. They have tunnel networks linking to everywhere so they can just bring in food, supplies, reinforcements, etc and the Horde doesn't have any way to stop it. Like Teldrassil, the Dwarven cities will never be starved out, and again a frontal assault is utterly futile.

Dalaran? Lol. The Horde doesn't have a large enough air force, and again doesn't have the logistics capability.

Stormwind and Kul'Tiras don't have the obscene fantasy defenses the other Alliance capitals do but again, there are so many factors you'd have to conveniently ignore for the Horde to have any chance whatsoever of actually assaulting those cities in the first place.

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Don't forget that the Deeprun tram could in theory be connected to Gnomeregan as well, which is another equally defensible city with opportunities for indoor agriculture if it is ever retaken.

That actually reminds me that the Gnomes have nuclear weapons (dirty bombs). Have an airship squadron drop one of those bad boys on each Horde city and go home and watch as the Horde dies and agonizing death from afar.

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silvermoon should be impenetrable, now that the sunwell returned so did the magic shield

The shield didn't encircle the entirety of Silvermoon. It is only seen blocking off approach by land. As seen in WC3, the shield can be disabled from the outside. It is less of a shield and more of a roadblock that slows an invading army's advance. Also the Alliance has a huge ass naval fleet so they could bypass it entirely, bombard whatever coastal fortifications Silvermoon might have, and then land at the harbor.

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In terms of silly imagination and nonsensical writing you mean, seriously as if a few siege engines could even send simple fire projectiles above several hundreds of meters in the sea and as fire projectiles can really damage or set on fire a titanic tree when living normal trees alone take a lot of efforts and special circumstances to be really set on fire, not counting all the water on and inside the tree and the druids, moon priestess and mages here.

This. Also, there is no way the Horde could have been able to set Teldrassil on fire just using mundane catapults. Here in California, we have the largest trees in the world: Giant Sequoia trees and Redwood trees. You know what we also have? Wildfires. Wildfires sweep through the forests multiple times a year. The underbrush is burned away but the trees still stand. The bark is too thick for the flames to pierce. In fact, wildfires is how Sequoia trees reproduce, as their pinecones only release seeds once they reach a very high temperature.



Teldrassil is that tree but 100,000x the size. The bark would be hundreds and hundreds of meters thick. Even if napalm was used to burn the rest of the forest at the base of Teldrassil, the giant tree itself would never burn.

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Doesn't part of the Deeprun tram run under the ocean?

What would happen if a few depth charges were set off and that tunnel was cracked open? Would both Stormwind and Ironforge be flooded? Nor sure how physics works here.

The only submarines seen in Warcraft are made by Gnomes, and the Horde is never seen using depth charges (lol. Yet another example of Alliance naval supremacy. Remember, during WW2, the overwhelming vast majority of ships were sunk not in conventional battles, but in surprise attacks by submarines, and the Horde has no counter against this). The only way the Horde could destroy the tunnel is they had their very best infiltrators sneak into Stormwind or Ironforge, spend who knows how many days walking down the tunnel, reach the section beneath the sea, and then detonate the biggest bomb they could carry. As far as the physics go, my understanding is that the water pressure would become less and less as the water approached sea level, ie approached the Ironforge/Stormwind tunnel entrances. Said entrances are above sea level. So Ironforge and Stormwind would never be flooded. They would just lose access to the tunnel as the gnomes repair it and pump out the water.