1. #10181
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Threatens? THREATENS?
    To be fair, they can't sue until he actually signs something.

  2. #10182
    Quote Originally Posted by Reyuna View Post
    My god the amount of disgusting people on here that are siding with this senile crazed lunatic, squatter in chief are beyond help.
    Funny, I didn't realize that Trump was still in office.

  3. #10183
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    RNC threatens to sue Biden.



    Wow. Imagine the Republican Party saying "How dare someone lie about what they'll do when they're elected!" after their 2020 platform of "Whatever Trump Wants". Or being upset about executive orders when, again, backing Trump on everything he ever did and said he would do but lied and went golfing instead.

    The RNC seems upset about small businesses who can't afford to pay Biden's fines when they have over 100 people but don't insist they get the free, safe vaccine or get tested. Which of course is 100% self-inflicted at this point.

    The RNC also seems to be upset because Biden hasn't ended COVID yet while red states are refusing to get the vaccine and Fuck Florida is leading the death march.

    EDIT: I guess I should add, maybe what Biden is proposing is out of his Constitutional ability, and if so, yeah that's a problem. But the hypocrisy is on full display here. Blaming Biden because he hasn't shut down the virus is like blaming the police because they didn't stop you from shooting your own car.
    Here's my thoughts;

    1> Threatening a lawsuit is admitting you don't have grounds for a lawsuit but are too much of a primadonna to just shut the fuck up and accept your lumps. If you had a case, you'd file. Edit: I see your "they can't sue until he signs something", but by that same token, they could keep their mouths shut until he signs something. Until we see the finalized text, how do they know they even have grounds to sue?

    2> What vaccine mandate? Biden isn't mandating everyone get vaccinated. Technically. He's mandating that companies over a certain size must ensure employees are either vaccinated or have had a COVID-19 test in the last week. Not only is there another option, but it doesn't apply to everyone anyway.

    3> If you've got 100 employees and fall within this purview, you're not a "small business". Get the fuck outta here.

    4> This doesn't hurt workers or their families in any way. The vaccine's available for free. If you mean shitheads who refuse the vaccine because they're morons, then the only "cost" is whatever the cost of weekly testing is, and that's a choice they're making for themselves; the free option's right there.

    5> If the vaccine is free, how any are of these people "paying the price"?


  4. #10184
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Here's my thoughts;

    1> Until we see the finalized text, how do they know they even have grounds to sue?
    As we've seen, they don't need grounds to sue. It's called "Powell of Attorney".

    Sorry. Not sorry. Yeah they can't sue until it's written so they can challenge what's written. To Be Continued.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    2> What vaccine mandate? Biden isn't mandating everyone get vaccinated. Technically.
    Well yeah, but it's a "not a mandate mandate". If you have to pay $14,000 every time you're found not complying, the exact name isn't really the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    3> If you've got 100 employees and fall within this purview, you're not a "small business". Get the fuck outta here.
    Agreed. "Small" business is what people say when they want a vague definition that sounds like it's affecting Mom and Pop stores when it's really Chik-Fil-A.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    4> This doesn't hurt workers or their families in any way.
    It's hurting what they feel are their rights which are violated. They're wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    5> If the vaccine is free, how any are of these people "paying the price"?
    They aren't.

  5. #10185
    Herald of the Titans D Luniz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Threatens? THREATENS?

    maybe they dont have lawyers to spare?
    "Law and Order", lots of places have had that, Russia, North Korea, Saddam's Iraq.
    Laws can be made to enforce order of cruelty and brutality.
    Equality and Justice, that is how you have peace and a society that benefits all.

  6. #10186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    1> Threatening a lawsuit is admitting you don't have grounds for a lawsuit but are too much of a primadonna to just shut the fuck up and accept your lumps.
    I'm sure you know this but any political body making noise about suing isn't actually looking at legal action - they are fundraising. I'm willing to bet you a billion dollars they have send a fundraising letter asking for contributions to help them with legal costs to fight this. The fact it isn't in play yet is irrelevant.

    I still think this is far too soft. People are being murderous fuckwads because they think not wearing a mask is a sign of freedom. Their ignorance doesn't change the fact that they are committing manslaughter.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  7. #10187
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    Biden has asked for businesses over 100 employees to mandate vaccination and testing.

    The GOP immediately said this was "unfair" to "small" businesses.

    The response from businesses, however, is basically "which forms and where do we submit them?" Several large business groups have already responded favorably.

    If anything, this is good for them. They can blame Biden and say "sorry y'all need to get vaccinated, my hands are tied" while thinking "this is great, now I won't have workers take month-long sick days or die just because Bubba Jo Bob Bubba showed up one day without a mask". Companies that were going to comply anyhow couldn't care less about the fine. Everyone else now has an excuse to comply, shrugging with a WOMP-WOMP sound effect, and getting a free win while pretending to be upset about it.

  8. #10188
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Biden has asked for businesses over 100 employees to mandate vaccination and testing.

    The GOP immediately said this was "unfair" to "small" businesses.

    The response from businesses, however, is basically "which forms and where do we submit them?" Several large business groups have already responded favorably.

    If anything, this is good for them. They can blame Biden and say "sorry y'all need to get vaccinated, my hands are tied" while thinking "this is great, now I won't have workers take month-long sick days or die just because Bubba Jo Bob Bubba showed up one day without a mask". Companies that were going to comply anyhow couldn't care less about the fine. Everyone else now has an excuse to comply, shrugging with a WOMP-WOMP sound effect, and getting a free win while pretending to be upset about it.
    Just one more example of President Biden coming up with a pretty creative solution to a difficult problem.

    And here is more good news. It's possible that voters will have his back.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/early-vot...001253554.html

    Title: Early voting indicates massive turnout in California recall election

    As of September 8, nearly 7 million voters have cast their ballots in California's governor recall election. The special election is generating an unusual turnout for off-year races. CBS News' deputy director of elections and data analytics Kabir Khanna joins CBSN's Lana Zak with his analysis.
    Maybe this is an oncoming train at the end of the tunnel and not a light of success. High turnouts in the upcoming elections could thwart republicans in a big way. It's possible!

  9. #10189
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    Maybe this is an oncoming train at the end of the tunnel and not a light of success. High turnouts in the upcoming elections could thwart republicans in a big way. It's possible!
    It could be an indication that the GOP has been so utterly vile for so long, that they're starting to move people off of their apathy. But it's definitely waaaaay to early to make any sort of guesses like that. It's more likely that CA voters would just prefer to keep the clown car on the road, rather than turn the keys over to someone who wants to drive it over a cliff.
    Last edited by s_bushido; 2021-09-11 at 01:57 AM.

  10. #10190
    Well this fucking sucks, some people need to lose their jobs.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/10/w...stan-isis.html Use incognito to bypass the paywall.
    KABUL, Afghanistan — It was the last known missile fired by the United States in its 20-year war in Afghanistan, and the military called it a “righteous strike” — a drone attack after hours of surveillance on Aug. 29 against a vehicle that American officials thought contained an ISIS bomb and posed an imminent threat to troops at Kabul’s airport.

    But a New York Times investigation of video evidence, along with interviews with more than a dozen of the driver’s co-workers and family members in Kabul, raises doubts about the U.S. version of events, including whether explosives were present in the vehicle, whether the driver had a connection to ISIS, and whether there was a second explosion after the missile struck the car.

    Military officials said they did not know the identity of the car’s driver when the drone fired, but deemed him suspicious because of how they interpreted his activities that day, saying that he possibly visited an ISIS safe house and, at one point, loaded what they thought could be explosives into the car.

    Times reporting has identified the driver as Zemari Ahmadi, a longtime worker for a U.S. aid group. The evidence suggests that his travels that day actually involved transporting colleagues to and from work. And an analysis of video feeds showed that what the military may have seen was Mr. Ahmadi and a colleague loading canisters of water into his trunk to bring home to his family.

    While the U.S. military said the drone strike might have killed three civilians, Times reporting shows that it killed 10, including seven children, in a dense residential block.

  11. #10191
    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    Well this fucking sucks, some people need to lose their jobs.
    "Accidentally" bombing civilians is our favorite pastime. We love Israel because they're so good at it too.

  12. #10192
    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    Well this fucking sucks, some people need to lose their jobs.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/10/w...stan-isis.html Use incognito to bypass the paywall.
    Yeah, int he past we used drone strikes on American citizens in the middle east so this may be a step up? Maybe?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Biden has asked for businesses over 100 employees to mandate vaccination and testing.

    The GOP immediately said this was "unfair" to "small" businesses.

    The response from businesses, however, is basically "which forms and where do we submit them?" Several large business groups have already responded favorably.

    If anything, this is good for them. They can blame Biden and say "sorry y'all need to get vaccinated, my hands are tied" while thinking "this is great, now I won't have workers take month-long sick days or die just because Bubba Jo Bob Bubba showed up one day without a mask". Companies that were going to comply anyhow couldn't care less about the fine. Everyone else now has an excuse to comply, shrugging with a WOMP-WOMP sound effect, and getting a free win while pretending to be upset about it.
    The administration considers this latest vaccine mandate for private sector companies to be a workaround for the federal government to require vaccines. Psaki basically said so since they can't mandate Americans do it, because , you know the constitution.

    Here's a question that Psaki dodged with gibberish, maybe you guys can answer:
    Business owners are already voicing concerns they aren't able to find applicants for jobs. There are a record 10.9 million job openings. Is the administration at all concerned that this new vaccine mandate that applies to businesses with 100 or more employees will cause further staffing shortages for businesses?
    If some health care workers will not get the vaccine, how do you convince people they have to get the vaccine to get a job?

  13. #10193
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    The administration considers this latest vaccine mandate for private sector companies to be a workaround for the federal government to require vaccines. Psaki basically said so since they can't mandate Americans do it, because , you know the constitution.
    Why exactly do you think the Constitution says that they can't?


    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    If some health care workers will not get the vaccine, how do you convince people they have to get the vaccine to get a job?
    I think there will be people who will actually feel more safe about going back to work with this policy in place.
    Last edited by PhaelixWW; 2021-09-11 at 06:25 AM. Reason: fixed quote


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  14. #10194
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Why exactly do you think the Constitution says that they can't?


    If some health care workers will not get the vaccine, how do you convince people they have to get the vaccine to get a job?
    I think there will be people who will actually feel more safe about going back to work with this policy in place.[/QUOTE]

    https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/sta...11554136788993
    Here's Dr Fauci talking about a national level of vaccine requirements
    Encroaching upon a person’s freedom to make their own choice
    Here's a nice pre election Biden:https://twitter.com/spransch/status/1436389838849183767

    Also CDC director: https://twitter.com/CDCDirector/stat...49671943569411
    .@BerkeleyJr
    To clarify: There will be no nationwide mandate. I was referring to mandates by private institutions and portions of the federal government. There will be no federal mandate.
    https://www.newsweek.com/video-nancy...rfaces-1627730
    Nancy Pelosi in April:
    The Speaker said: "So—so here is the thing. We are—we cannot require someone to be vaccinated. That's just not what we can do. It is a matter of privacy to know who is or who isn't."
    December of 2020 Biden said "I don’t think it [vaccines] should be mandatory, I wouldn’t demand it be mandatory” I guess he has decided that he wants to be dictatorial and changed his mind.
    Last edited by TexasRules; 2021-09-11 at 04:29 AM.

  15. #10195
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/sta...11554136788993
    Here's Dr Fauci talking about a national level of vaccine requirements
    Fauci is not President or Congress, nor is that "freedom to make their own choice" a right protected by the Constitution.

    In fact, SCOTUS has ruled on the Constitutionality of government vaccine mandates before.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    Here's the politifact factcheck article with full quotes (not just the bolded out-of-context portions) from Harris and Biden:
    Harris' Statements

    Harris was asked in a Sept. 6, 2020, interview whether she would take a vaccine if it was approved before the election. She replied:
    "Well, I think that's going to be an issue for all of us. I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump. And it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he's talking about. I will not take his word for it. He wants us to inject bleach. I — no, I will not take his word."
    Harris was asked in an Oct. 7, 2020, vice presidential debate if she would take a vaccine if the Trump administration approved one. Referring to the leading government epidemiologist Dr. Anthony Fauci, she said:
    "If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it. Absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I’m not taking it."

    Biden’s statements

    Biden’s statements on the campaign trail show that he was concerned that politics would influence the development and deployment of the vaccine, and that Trump could not be trusted.

    In an interview for a journalism conference Aug. 6, 2020, he said:
    "The way he (Trump) talks about the vaccine is not particularly rational. He’s talking about it being ready, he’s going to talk about moving it quicker than the scientists think it should be moved … . People don’t believe that he’s telling the truth, therefore they’re not at all certain they’re going to take the vaccine. And one more thing: If and when the vaccine comes, it’s not likely to go through all the tests that need to be done, and the trials that are needed to be done."
    In a Sept. 2, 2020 TV interview, Biden referred to political influence over two federal agencies leading the fight against the pandemic, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Food and Drug Administration. He said:
    "Look at what’s happened. Enormous pressure put on the CDC not to put out the detailed guidelines. The enormous pressure being put on the FDA to say they’re going, that the following protocol will in fact reduce, it will have a giant impact on COVID. All these things turn out not to be true, and when a president continues to mislead and lie, when we finally do, God willing, get a vaccine, who’s going to take the shot? Who’s going to take the shot? You going to be the first one to say, ‘Put me — sign me up, they now say it’s OK’? I’m not being facetious."
    In a July 28, 2020 campaign speech, Biden stressed the need for transparency in developing the vaccine. He said:
    "How are you going to distribute the vaccine when it arrives, when it arrives, when it’s there? And the question of whether it’s real, when it’s there, that requires enormous transparency. You’ve got to make all of it available to other experts across the nation, so they can look and see, so there’s consensus this is a safe vaccine. Because already you have, what percent is American people saying if the vaccine were there tomorrow, they wouldn’t take it? And it’s not the usual anti-vaccine crowd. It’s beyond that because people are losing faith in what the president says. Think about it."
    In campaign remarks on Sept. 7, 2020, Biden outlined steps he would take to address the pandemic, including masks and contact tracing, adding:
    "Charting a clear path of science-based vaccines, free from politics. I get asked the question: ‘If the president announced tomorrow we have a vaccine, would you take it?’ Only if it was completely transparent, that other experts in the country could look at it, only if we knew all of what went into it. Because so far, nothing he’s told us has been true."
    The following week, Biden restated his concern about politics intervening in vaccine development:
    "Americans have had to endure President Trump’s incompetence and dishonesty, when it comes to testing and personal protective equipment. We can’t afford to repeat those fiascos when it comes to a vaccine. … Let me be clear: I trust vaccines, I trust scientists, but I don’t trust Donald Trump, and at this moment, the American people can’t either. Last week, Senator Harris and I laid out three questions this administration’s going to have to answer to assure the American people that politics will not play a role whatsoever in the vaccine process. If Donald Trump can’t give answers and the administration can’t give answers to these three questions, the American people should not have confidence."

    Our ruling

    A video on social media suggests that Biden and Harris distrusted COVID-19 vaccines.

    The video was selectively edited to leave out the context of their statements. Their full statements show they were raising doubts about Trump’s trustworthiness, his ability to roll out the vaccines safely and the risk of political influence over vaccine development.

    We rate the video False.
    Regardless, none of this has anything to do with the fact that it's not unConstitutional.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    December of 2020 Biden said "I don’t think it [vaccines] should be mandatory, I wouldn’t demand it be mandatory”
    And yet... they're not mandatory.


    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    I guess he has decided that he wants to be dictatorial and changed his mind.
    Only in your imaginary world. Nobody with any real sense thinks it's "dictatorial".

    Is it dictatorial for firefighters to evacuate a building that's on fire?

    (Narrator: No, it is not.)


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

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  16. #10196
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Fauci is not President or Congress, nor is that "freedom to make their own choice" a right protected by the Constitution.

    In fact, SCOTUS has ruled on the Constitutionality of government vaccine mandates before.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Here's the politifact factcheck article with full quotes (not just the bolded out-of-context portions) from Harris and Biden:


    Regardless, none of this has anything to do with the fact that it's not unConstitutional.
    Right but both the speaker of the house and the President's press secretary have said they can not legally mandate vaccines for the American people.....so that's the congress and the President? What changed before the election and now? Before the election Biden and Harris both said they would not trust a non thoroughly tested vaccine....why should we do it now? The President and his party always complain about looking at the science and his Director of NIAID and the director of the cdc both say there should be no mandate. So is their science now bad?

  17. #10197
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    Right but both the speaker of the house and the President's press secretary have said they can not legally mandate vaccines for the American people.....so that's the congress and the President? What changed before the election and now?
    Nothing.

    They're not legally mandating the vaccine with their proposed plan, here. You're misrepresenting the facts, on purpose.

    Before the election Biden and Harris both said they would not trust a non thoroughly tested vaccine....why should we do it now?
    That's just an already-debunked lie.

    You really can't tell the truth, can you?


  18. #10198
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Fauci is not President or Congress, nor is that "freedom to make their own choice" a right protected by the Constitution.

    In fact, SCOTUS has ruled on the Constitutionality of government vaccine mandates before.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Here's the politifact factcheck article with full quotes (not just the bolded out-of-context portions) from Harris and Biden:


    Regardless, none of this has anything to do with the fact that it's not unConstitutional.

    - - - Updated - - -


    And yet... they're not mandatory.



    Only in your imaginary world. Nobody with any real sense thinks it's "dictatorial".

    Is it dictatorial for firefighters to evacuate a building that's on fire?

    (Narrator: No, it is not.)
    I know you didn't bother to look at what Psaki said, why would you, but she all but admitted they were trying to do an end around because they cannot legally mandate the vaccine. And a lot of those quotes he said about Trump and the vaccine can be applied right now. The trust in Biden is low, look at his polls. Not just for Afghanistan, but his handling of covid. So if Trump came out and demanded that businesses get the vaccine before the election, everybody on this forum woudl claim he's a dictator and he's hitler. They did it for everything he did anyways. You can pretend that forcing workers to get a vaccine they may not want is not dictatorial. It's like when he said he couldn't extend the evictions and then did and then the supreme court said he couldn't do it.

  19. #10199
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    Right but both the speaker of the house and the President's press secretary have said they can not legally mandate vaccines for the American people....
    Where exactly did they say that there were legal grounds that prevented it?


    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    Before the election Biden and Harris both said they would not trust a non thoroughly tested vaccine....why should we do it now?
    No, as answered previously, they said that they would trust a tested vaccine, they just wouldn't trust Trump's word that it was tested properly. And we didn't have to take Trump's word for it. The trials were conducted just fine and their results were proven by scientists. So we took the scientists' word for it.

    And guess what, Biden and Harris both received some of the first doses of the vaccine. Why are you still willfully spreading false information?


    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    The President and his party always complain about looking at the science and his Director of NIAID and the director of the cdc both say there should be no mandate. So is their science now bad?
    That's a policy question, not a medical question. They're not saying that there's a medical reason that there shouldn't be a vaccine mandate. The science is still fine, but Biden isn't somehow required to follow Fauci and Wallensky's advice on matters of policy. Both Fauci and Wallensky would agree that we want as many people vaccinated as possible to help save lives during this ongoing pandemic.

    And I'll reiterate: this is not a vaccine mandate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    I know you didn't bother to look at what Psaki said, why would you, but she all but admitted they were trying to do an end around because they cannot legally mandate the vaccine.
    You're reading far too much into her statement.

    I mean, the proof is in the pudding. If there's a legal reason why it can't be done, surely you can point to the law in question? Go on, take a look and come back with the law or SCOTUS ruling that says it can't be done.


    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    So if Trump came out and demanded that businesses get the vaccine before the election, everybody on this forum woudl claim he's a dictator and he's hitler.
    Sure, but, like... before the election the vaccine trials weren't sufficiently advanced enough to get an EUA. So yeah, it would have been wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    You can pretend that forcing workers to get a vaccine they may not want is not dictatorial.
    Except that it's still not a mandate. There's the option for non-vaccination. To be honest, I personally would mandate them, but that's not what Biden did. But there's no legal reason why they couldn't.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

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  20. #10200
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    I know you didn't bother to look at what Psaki said, why would you, but she all but admitted they were trying to do an end around because they cannot legally mandate the vaccine. And a lot of those quotes he said about Trump and the vaccine can be applied right now.
    It's cute that you admit this isn't a mandate while trying to push the claim that it's a mandate.

    The trust in Biden is low, look at his polls.
    1> "Trust" is not "approval".
    2> He's currently dipped to a low of 45.8% approval. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...proval-rating/
    That's irrelevant; plenty of Presidents have had lowish ratings. Every single President back to Kennedy has had lower ratings than this at some point. His approval rating simply isn't as low as you claim.

    So if Trump came out and demanded that businesses get the vaccine before the election, everybody on this forum woudl claim he's a dictator and he's hitler. They did it for everything he did anyways.
    This is you projecting your own bad faith onto everyone else. It has no basis in reality.

    You can pretend that forcing workers to get a vaccine they may not want is not dictatorial.
    They're not being forced to vaccinate.

    That's a plain fact. You're lying.

    And unlike the issue with the eviction notices, an actual mandate is well within constitutionality, and there's plenty of precedent backing that up. And it wouldn't be "dictatorial". You're just ranting and throwing a petty tantrum.


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