Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Yarathir]

"Ren'dorei" being just another sect of elves in the same line as Sin'dorei or Quel'dorei would be cool actually. Because the Void Elf origin is such a unique occurance it doesnt make sense for their numbers to increase in the same way. A Sin'dorei isn't a fel mutated elf, and a Ren'dorei shouldnt have to be void mutated. Simply being an unaltered elf whos deep into void research or shadow magic sould mean they can call themselves Ren'dorei. Its about where you stand and identify, nothin else. Of course there are political distinctions, I don't believe a horde aligned elf would call themselves a High Elf, regardless of eye color, thats simply not how it works.

I'd be down for this


Its crazy how far the goalposts have moved huh

You will never have natural skin colors!

[elbleuet]

You will never have natural skin colors!

"because : "

*inserts headcanons*

[ravenmoon]

It's the actual gear itself, for the Mages and the "purple" stuff that goes with it.

https://www.wowhead.com/news/paladin...shots:324042:1

I mean, look at that - you could easily RP your Night Elf Mage as one of Xavius' most devoted during the WoTA.
Or you could go with a Shandaral Highborne, who was dealing with the stolen artifacts from the Blue Dragons.

It just looks so good.

I definitely think Night Elves and Void Elves were in mind when designing the new Mage set and Priest set, respectively.
At this point in time, I'm seriously considering using my last level 45 free boost on a Night Elf Mage. (She'd probably be Arcane and Frost, since my Blood Elf Mage is mainly Fire and Arcane.)

Night elf mage concepts:

Male heavy: While Azshara was the most famous night elf for being a mage, turns out it's a male dominated arena. Perhaps because blizzard generally put females in the traditional male roles for night elves and the other way round. We have far more male night elf mage famous people.

1. Illidan - greatest sorceror ever (even though Azshara is more notorsiouly prolific for great arcane accomplishments)
2. Xavius - pre-satyr Xavius, 2nd best magician in the realm during that time period ( long before Illidan matures)
3. Prince Farondis - while we only meet him in Legion, we see he packs a punch and was willing to go toe to toe with Queen herself - very powerful
4. Mordant Evensahde - a bit like Thalyssra, we don't really see him do much, but as the leader of the Highborne he is noteworthy figure
5. Lothrius Mooncaller - one of the 3 leaders of the Moonguard, this guy is BADASS, did you see him against Elisande's attack force, he humiliated them, despite the great number disparities, you don't want to cross him.

Most of the Moonguard who were with the resistance, and some Highborne turned to duridism as remember it was ll night elves who agreed with the ban, including Darth Remar, it as only 3,000 years into it that Darth Remar felt it was time to move on.. the druids were vastly male populated too, showing that most of the pre-sundering magister population were male. This is likely because the order of Elune, the other most influential caste in the entire realm was exclusively female at it's sisterhood. Whiles the lore tells us males had a a priestly order connected to it, which I suspect is where the likes of Star Augur Etraeus come from.. This huge female organisation - trained casters, warriors, hunters etc.

Pre-sundering, the real had it's army, so that gender segregation was not as obvious in the military forces.. the Moonguard was mostly male, but the sister hood, especially the Night warrior would have been female. Ground forces would have been mixed, but because of the sisterhood, it is likely that even pre-sundering, females were not shy of picking up bows and swords and were probably the more melee focused..

But post sundering, during the long vigil, they would be almost entirely female.


Nightborne Mage Concepts:
I personally prefer males, but then Elisande, Thalyssra, and Thalyssra's replacement were all females. WE did fight a few mage Lords to be fair, who seemed more male than female, but the Duskguard were pretty even.

High elves:
No gender disparity - i pick what i like, I am not going to do a high elf mage, I am tempted to do a male, but I already have a blood elf.. and I kinda feel the blood elf should be the mage. I haven't relaly felt the need to play a high elf since void elves beacme avialable, and tbh, I'm really gald theyd id void leves, if you already play blodo elves, even though I love high elves, from a playing perspective of a person who does both factions, it maeks high elves a bit redundant. But now they are here, all my blood elves are switching to ruddier more tanned skin options, and darker hair options, i do have a black void elf, but the rest would be very pale skin and pale hair.

Void elves:
No gender disparity - I did go for a a female, mage is the best class for a void elf, not priest nor hunter. Because of Alleria hunter is a very good choice. But there is no priest lore for void elves. It is full of mages, then you have seen the rogues, warriors and hunters.

Therefore I have a void elf mage, rogue, warrior, priest and death knight - but I will make the female hunter high elven for sure. I was figuring whether I should make her void, but nah she'd be high elf.

Blood Elves
gAgain here, no gender disparity for mages. I do have a male blood elf mage, I've had like forever, I will still keep him and play him. My main was a blood elf hunter for a while, male too, I'm keeping him too. He's my farstrider, got a female warlock, green eyes, and off course, the only elven paladins are Blood elves, just like the only Elven druids are night elves, which is a bit silly, they should all have access to druids and paladins, but with different names. I think night warriors should be the night elf and nightborne version of Paladin, yes, nightborne should have access to them, Elune should be a big part of the nightborne, but other facets to the order that weren't emphasized with the Darnassians because of the Long vigil and the ban can now come out, including hte other star facets of the Order. I think nightborne druids should be Valewalkers, and blood and High elven ones as Botanists, Void elves should have a unique name, like Void Harversters or Tenders. Void elves should be paladins as Void knights or light paladins because of the high elf options.

All my blood elves except my paladin are changing hair colour and skin colour. and I'm removing the ones I chagned to blue eyes and setting them to either green or gold (priest/pala) or where the gear makes sense

[FlubberPuddy]

Void Elf another race? Like fat humans is another race right? Kul Tiran is as Human as Stormwind Humans. Another race?

Lore says that Void Elves are originally Blood Elves. Its just differentiated as a race for gameplay purposes. Just like any other race split in a version of a race on the character screen.

This. Anyone mention to @Syegfryed yet that by his logic Dark Irons are a different race than Dwarves yet Moira had no issues birthing a Dark Iron Dwarf baby with 'another race'

[ravenmoon]

he thinks race is about what magic is inside of you, and that Thalassian races aren't just an ethnicity of elf that is split up between cultures... It's sort of like how There are many human ethnicities, lets say Thalassians are Europeans. You're going to have a hard time telling an englishman from a german because the difference does not matter, what makes them different is culture, and an ethnic anglo raised in Germany, or tries really hard to adopt German customs, is a German. It's the same with elves, only much less complicated because high/blood/void are just schools of thought, and can reasonably be switched between with little trouble with you likely wouldn't find protest in the Warcraft Universe.

Some people might turn their heads at a purple skinned, tentacle-faced void elf calling himself a high elf, but for the rest of them it's not a huge deal. Blood Elves look to Silvermoon for guidance and believe in building back the motherland and discarding traditions and becoming what they must to survive. High Elves believe in holding to previous convictions, old allegiances and believe in preserving what they were. Void Elves fall more in line with the former, only they do not strive for nationhood, but enlightenment.

It's way more interesting than 'durr you put void energy in body u no longer blood elf '. He'd call Demon Hunters a race too if they were simply called "Fel'dorei" or something, but they never gave themselves a name, so they are still blood elves and night elves I guess? :copium:


Viewing the lore from a gameplay perspective is so boring, instead of looking at the merit of what is designed through the lens of a world first.

Same argument for night elves and Nightborne, Nightborne are an ethnicity of night elf, though the nightwell made some changes, just like the void made some changes to purple void elves.. problem is it seems that people don't connect the nightborne as much to night elves... i kept thinking, it's literally a skinny night elf - both npc (old models) and player models, with upturned ears. Why do they struggle so much more? My only conclusion is because Suramar seems so different than wild forest life they associate night elves with.

Off course, I don't have such a problem, since most of my knowledge on night elves comes from the far more extensive coverage of them in the novels, than in game which has a lot to say about the pre-sundering era and Suramar too.. so I expect and associate Suramar with night elves, they associate it with a new elf race, and blood elves oblivious to the connection blood elves have with night elves.

what @Sygefryed is saying about void elves being a different race is just as invalid as those who say Nightborne are. They're just an ethnicity who's deviation is magically induced. That's the whole point of allied/sub -races. But he thinks they're something entirely different, not quite catching the nuance. It's an autism like problem, I can entirely sympthise with, but he is so stubborn sometimes, he can make it hard to be sympathetic

Highmountains: Cenarius magically alters the Tauren = Highmountain
Lightforged: Light ritual magically alters the Eredar draenei = Lightforged
Nightborne: Nightwell magically alters the night elves = Nightborne
Void elves: Void accident magically alters the blood elves = blood elves


Same story in every case. all these sub races are based on their main races. Problem with Nightborne is most of the populations unaware of the civilization of the kaldorei - so think it's new, but it's been there since WC3, yes since WC3, read the manual, and read War of the Ancients that was written when Warcraft 3, was been written even though it was released after TFT. It's just lore they're not aware of.

The culture, character oft he Highmountain is very Tauren - slightly different form the mulgore tauren but very Tauren
The Lightforged just have a different experience but are clearly draenei
The void elves are clearly Thalassians, blood elves with re-entering their loyalty on the alliance, but they have the blood elf tenacity, drive, and we know high elves are part of them too
The Nightborne are clearly kaldorei, civilization types from the time all kaldorei had a civilization as a major part of their culture - only now slowly returning after 10k years of vigil. But it is kaldorei culture - just a side that hasn't been seen. There is nothing in Suramar, and the culture you see in the quests that isn't an expansion on what you read in War of the ancients and an exploration. It's kaldorei through and through, just not much Elune speech and druidism.. but it has lots of gardens and plants, and it's full of moon symbols everywhere.

[Doffen]

This. Anyone mention to @Syegfryed yet that by his logic Dark Irons are a different race than Dwarves yet Moira had no issues birthing a Dark Iron Dwarf baby with 'another race'

Not to mention that the parents of those Void Elves in the lore are Blood Elves, they dont stop being same race just because they change color over night

Its just out of the blue(pun) argument to say that lore wise, Void Elves is another race. It makes no sense from a lore perspective. Using the argument with playable races would be scraping the butter on the bread, but better than using the lore argument.

[Tanaria]

Nightborne Mage Concepts:
I personally prefer males, but then Elisande, Thalyssra, and Thalyssra's replacement were all females. WE did fight a few mage Lords to be fair, who seemed more male than female, but the Duskguard were pretty even.

I'd argue that the Nightborne are more "Female Mage." Elisande, the leader was female. All of her "first arcanist's" were female. The best leyline researcher in Suramar was female.
Yes, we've got Oculeth, with his telemancy, but Thalyssra is also known to have great telemancy skills, such as being able to teleport the whole Horde Army to Zandalar.

- - - Updated - - -

Blood Elves
gAgain here, no gender disparity for mages. I do have a male blood elf mage, I've had like forever, I will still keep him and play him. My main was a blood elf hunter for a while, male too, I'm keeping him too. He's my farstrider, got a female warlock, green eyes, and off course, the only elven paladins are Blood elves, just like the only Elven druids are night elves, which is a bit silly, they should all have access to druids and paladins, but with different names. I think night warriors should be the night elf and nightborne version of Paladin, yes, nightborne should have access to them, Elune should be a big part of the nightborne, but other facets to the order that weren't emphasized with the Darnassians because of the Long vigil and the ban can now come out, including hte other star facets of the Order. I think nightborne druids should be Valewalkers, and blood and High elven ones as Botanists, Void elves should have a unique name, like Void Harversters or Tenders. Void elves should be paladins as Void knights or light paladins because of the high elf options.

All my blood elves except my paladin are changing hair colour and skin colour. and I'm removing the ones I chagned to blue eyes and setting them to either green or gold (priest/pala) or where the gear makes sense

Blood Elves are like Night Elf Mages, in some regard. Most common ones are males, but we've seen a lot of female blood elf mage npcs.
Also, the Sorceresses in W3 were all female high/blood elves, whilst the Priests were all male high/blood elves.

And I'm all for more classes, but it's got to be at a time when Blizzard can tell a decent story. Thus far, only Night Elf Paladins could fit the bill. Nightborne Paladins would be "Holy Light Acolytes", Blood Elf Druids would be "Tauren Druid Apprentices." Why? Because that's all Blizzard would muster.

If the story isn't going to be good, then I reckon it should be left unchanged.

[Echo of Soul]

It's pretty simple. If it doesn't say High Elf on the character creation screen when choosing a race you're not a High Elf.
You're free to create a Blood Elf or a Void Elf and RP as a High Elf though.

[FlubberPuddy]

It's pretty simple. If it doesn't say High Elf on the character creation screen when choosing a race you're not a High Elf.
You're free to create a Blood Elf or a Void Elf and RP as a High Elf though.

Should tell this to all the Blood Elf players who keep saying they're High Elves, these days I often see that more.

[Yarathir]

Should tell this to all the Blood Elf players who keep saying they're High Elves, these days I often see that more.

Pretty much this.

[Tanaria]

Pretty much this.

Don't forget to tell yourself that as well.

[Kyriani]

Ion says blood elves and void elves are high elves so...

[elbleuet]

Horde players are playing blue-eyed blood elves or a few high elves freshly returned to QT

Alliance players are playing most of the remaining High elves.

Period.

[Varodoc]

How is this so hard to understand?

"High elves" (like Silver Covenant/Highvale) = Pure High elves without any corruption of any kind;

Blood elves = High elves twisted by Fel;

Void elves: High elves twisted by Void.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

enoguh to use their racials, isn't rocket science.

Wonder how will age when/if we get new VE initiates made of High Elves then lol.

no im not? it is on the playable ones lore?
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Mechagnome_(playable)

its not just "remove their limbs and put a prostethic arm in the place" it is full reverse the curse of flesh in a limb, it is even highlight by their racials with then having organic light.

Okay so you basically didn't read the comic I literally linked to you. Come on, make an effort.

they experimented with ancient technology to reverse the Curse of Flesh and become living machines.

THAT'S LITERALLY WHAT HAPPENS IN THE COMIC AFTER ERAZMIN LEAVES, AND WE SEE IT BEING USED FOR THE FIRST TIME. THAT'S WHAT KING MECHAGON HAD BEEN WORKING ON AN TESTED ON THE GNOME EXPLORER.

im not dismissing im taking then in account, i talk about then several times, but again, that is another case as their are a class, trying to put them in the same bag is a false equivalence..

And that's why any critique you make is entirely surface. It's like you are unable to see the inconsistencies of treating Illidari as merely "another class" and completely dismiss how the lore itself might not be a one to one reflection of gameplay categorization. "Demon Hunters are a class" is the laziest read of the situation as you, again, completely dismiss how regardless of game mechanics, their biology has changed on a manner far more similar to LFD and VE than anything else. Death Knight's are also a class, but they are physiologically different and far more closer to forsaken than their original races.

Except i never said anything about personal immersion, you are attacking a point that i never made, i was talking about lore and the canon origins, while you stating the canon is wrong and to be a elf is a mere "self identity thing" when its not.

Lol and you say that when I literally replied this before? You gave up on actually reading what one is actually writing a long time ago lmao.

Race in WoW only works if it's understood as the interactions between biology, culture, identity and society of a group, because the absence of one of them by themselves does not preclude a race from being a "race". You can't reduce it to biology when we literally see the absence of that variable on mechagnomes, and yet we see it on Illidari DH

You dismiss what doesn't fit your argument (Illidari) and misread and misrepresent the lore (mechagnomes)

[Tanaria]

How is this so hard to understand?

"High elves" (like Silver Covenant/Highvale) = Pure High elves without any corruption of any kind;

Blood elves = High elves twisted by Fel;

Void elves: High elves twisted by Void.

Blood Elves are not "twisted" by fel.

Anyone who thinks this needs to revise the lore of one of the best races in Azeroth. Period.

[Varodoc]

Horde players are playing blue-eyed blood elves or a few high elves freshly returned to QT

Alliance players are playing most of the remaining High elves.

Period.

The former only. I doubt any High elf would return to Quel'Thalas. They left it in the first place because they wanted to remain pure, and not be twisted and mutated by Fel magic.

It could be a Blood elf who somehow never got mutated by Fel magic, and thus retains their blue eye. But how this is possibly, I do not know. Maybe they were away from Quel'Thalas in TBC.

[Tanaria]

The former only. I doubt any High elf would return to Quel'Thalas. They left it in the first place because they wanted to remain pure, and not be twisted and mutated by Fel magic.

Only fools think that blood elves are mutated by fel magic.

Clearly don't know the core lore for the main Thalassian race.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

This is true. "Race" is a social construct arbitrarily assigned by human minds. There is no physical reality behind it. This is because any physical differences between population groups gradually change across a gradient, and there are no hard and set boundaries with neat little boxes that separate demes. Clinal distribution is an accurate representation of populations and genetic differences, not "race." In fact, you can take a person from one country in Europe, profile their DNA, and they can be much closer related to someone from Africa than a neighboring European country.

Humans experienced a genetic bottleneck around 50,000 to 60,000 years ago that reduced genetic variability when compared to other animal species: most likely a pandemic that left only a few hundred human beings alive. This means we are all very closely related genetically, like one big extended family. And much like having siblings with different eye colors, hair colors, or blood types, we can look different even though we are very similar to each other in terms of genes.

Ethnicity is real, however, because ethnicity explicitly understands that it is a social construct from the outset. Ethnicity doesn't suggest a difference in species, like "race" does, as it is merely a description of an isolated cultural group. Culture is something we can discuss scientifically, whereas "race" was something invented to justify attitudes of "superiority" and colonial oppression of the Other. Exploitation is profitable, and a whole category of pseudoscience ("race") was invented to prop it up to keep the money train rolling along.

"There are no races, there are only clines." -Frank Livingston

(P.S. My bachelor's degree is in anthropology, so I know what I'm talking about.)

That's why it's so silly to define race in WoW solely by the biological component. If there is a valid conceptualization in WoW about race, it has to take into account both culture and society of the group. Biology alone does not a race make, nor is necessary according WoW itself. If Blood Elves and High Elves are the same race, so are Maghar and Orcs.

I do think most of the WoW "races" would fit more with the concept of ethnicity, but I would think that wouldn't apply to "races" that are afflicted by curses/cosmic forces, as you can't really change your ethnic group.

That's why "race" is a weird term in WoW, and really only makes sense as a more complex grouping that not only accounts for biology, but also society and culture.

- - - Updated - - -

he thinks race is about what magic is inside of you, and that Thalassian races aren't just an ethnicity of elf that is split up between cultures... It's sort of like how There are many human ethnicities, lets say Thalassians are Europeans. You're going to have a hard time telling an englishman from a german because the difference does not matter, what makes them different is culture, and an ethnic anglo raised in Germany, or tries really hard to adopt German customs, is a German. It's the same with elves, only much less complicated because high/blood/void are just schools of thought, and can reasonably be switched between with little trouble with you likely wouldn't find protest in the Warcraft Universe.

Some people might turn their heads at a purple skinned, tentacle-faced void elf calling himself a high elf, but for the rest of them it's not a huge deal. Blood Elves look to Silvermoon for guidance and believe in building back the motherland and discarding traditions and becoming what they must to survive. High Elves believe in holding to previous convictions, old allegiances and believe in preserving what they were. Void Elves fall more in line with the former, only they do not strive for nationhood, but enlightenment.

It's way more interesting than 'durr you put void energy in body u no longer blood elf '. He'd call Demon Hunters a race too if they were simply called "Fel'dorei" or something, but they never gave themselves a name, so they are still blood elves and night elves I guess? :copium:


Viewing the lore from a gameplay perspective is so boring, instead of looking at the merit of what is designed through the lens of a world first.

For me the issue is taking the gameplay distinctions as the sole prescriptive notion without considering the obvious existence of lore and gameplay segregation in a game. If everything that we see during gameplay is "lore" then the world really just doesn't make sense, you have to use at least a iota of critical thinking to see the overall context so you don't end up believing stuff that contradicts each other.

Saying Illidari wouldn't count as a race because they are a "class" is just putting a gameplay classification in a place where it does not make sense. Logically, Illidari are as distinct from thalassians as VE's are, they are utterly infused with a magical energy, yet the gameplay treats them as different things. So it's either that Illidari should be considered another race and gameplay=/=Lore, or biology alone does not make a race and if they still consider themselves Blood Elves no one is going to tell them "akshually you're a Fel Elf okay?"

[Tanaria]

Saying Illidari wouldn't count as a race because they are a "class" is just putting a gameplay classification in a place where it does not make sense. Logically, Illidari are as distinct from thalassians as VE's are, they are utterly infused with a magical energy, yet the gameplay treats them as different things. So it's either that Illidari should be considered another race and gameplay=/=Lore, or biology alone does not make a race and if they still consider themselves Blood Elves no one is going to tell them "akshually you're a Fel Elf okay?"

Illidari is a faction, not a race.

I mean we've got the Illidari Demon Hunters, but also the old Illidari Elite Blood Elven fighting force, just beyond the Den of Mortal Delights.