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  1. #21
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    WoW isn't dead.

    World of Warcraft has always been far more casual than the MMO's before it. It's been WoW's philosophy from day one, and it works. Catering to the largest overall group of players is how you make money.

    There haven't been any hardcore MMO's, certainly not on the level of Runescape or Everquest, for a long time.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Caprias1212 View Post
    And where exactly do they only accommodate casuals?

    The AoE cap removal?
    Opening up covenants?
    Removing conduit energy? (something most casuals never even interacted with)

    The great thing about most casual players is that they don't really care about the intricate systems of the game (because you know, they don't really inform themselves or think much about the game outside of just... playing it).

    So as long as you can't point out what changes are exactly just for that group of players and no one else you don't really have a point.
    Exactly. jesus. i hate seeing the big picture and everyone else has a tiny brain. its so frustrating.

    Casuals cry to be accommadated for when ultimately they dont even give a shit about anything in the game all they care about is filling that social void in there lives.

    So in a nutshell, nothing you can do will make them unsub. so why on earth do you think they should be accommadated for only?? and shaft the more hardcore players out of the door......since wotlk this has been happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    WoW isn't dead.

    World of Warcraft has always been far more casual than the MMO's before it. It's been WoW's philosophy from day one, and it works. Catering to the largest overall group of players is how you make money.

    There are no hardcore MMO's, certainly not on the level of Runescape or Everquest.
    yes it has, but why only accommadate them???? why not give a wider scope of playability for everyone instead of just squishing it down and simplifying it so everyone can have legendaries and everyone can be stacked with 252. its so dumb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deferionus View Post
    As someone who has been playing 15+ years, have been rated 3k in rated PvP, and have been a server top raider in a US top 50 guild you are wrong. The game is made more for the elite player base today and tons of work is done to accommodate that bunch. The lack of focus on casual gameplay has led to a decline.

    Anyway /thread.
    Respect your rating etc, but you do realise that its you the player thats creating that difficulty right? against other players? how hard is pve for you? tracking a 40sec timer is hard i bet.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    WoW isn't dead.

    World of Warcraft has always been far more casual than the MMO's before it. It's been WoW's philosophy from day one, and it works. Catering to the largest overall group of players is how you make money.

    There haven't been any hardcore MMO's, certainly not on the level of Runescape or Everquest, for a long time.
    This hasn't really ever been true... It was more "casual" then some of the market but wow never was everyone gets to win till arguably the end of cata. I also don't think wow caters to the largest amount of players it caters to players who are addicted to the feeling of being rewarded.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Caprias1212 View Post
    And where exactly do they only accommodate casuals?

    The AoE cap removal?
    Opening up covenants?
    Removing conduit energy? (something most casuals never even interacted with)

    The great thing about most casual players is that they don't really care about the intricate systems of the game (because you know, they don't really inform themselves or think much about the game outside of just... playing it).

    So as long as you can't point out what changes are exactly just for that group of players and no one else you don't really have a point.
    Funny thing - Conduit energy is something I have spendt zero effort on. I know its there, but I havent cared about it one bit all xpac.Found it weird people were upset about it, cause it was just there as a useless shit feature with bad implementing. But it was just there for me, did nothing.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Tertullian72 View Post
    The obvious solution is permadeath.
    its a bit drastic method, but it would stop people from making pointless troll threads

  6. #26
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by odamienskii View Post
    yes it has, but why only accommadate them???? why not give a wider scope of playability for everyone instead of just squishing it down and simplifying it so everyone can have legendaries and everyone can be stacked with 252. its so dumb.
    It's not dumb at all.

    World of Warcraft is a game where everyone can succeed through multiple paths. They can make it hardcore if they'd like (mythic, high M+ timing keys), or they can be casual about it, logging in when they can, relying on catch-up mechanics or crafted gear. They can be middle-of-the-road, like myself, who does some mid-range M+ when I can and raids two nights a week in heroic with my guild.

    There is no "hardcore vs casual" mentality, it's entirely made-up. WoW is what you want to make of it.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Funny thing - Conduit energy is something I have spendt zero effort on. I know its there, but I havent cared about it one bit all xpac.Found it weird people were upset about it, cause it was just there as a useless shit feature with bad implementing. But it was just there for me, did nothing.
    It didn't affect most players. Like covenants though it sucked ass if your pvp and pve talents differed drastically. Its the system designed only to annoy people who play multiple forms of content competitively.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Funny thing - Conduit energy is something I have spendt zero effort on. I know its there, but I havent cared about it one bit all xpac.Found it weird people were upset about it, cause it was just there as a useless shit feature with bad implementing. But it was just there for me, did nothing.
    It's irrelevant for the largest part of players but it legitimately irks some that want to mix-max every boss or multi spec a lot, so it's still good that they get rid of it imo. even though some players blew the problem way out of proportion.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    It's not dumb at all.

    World of Warcraft is a game where everyone can succeed through multiple paths. They can make it hardcore if they'd like (mythic, high M+ timing keys), or they can be casual about it, logging in when they can, relying on catch-up mechanics or crafted gear. They can be middle-of-the-road, like myself, who does some mid-range M+ when I can and raids two nights a week in heroic with my guild.

    There is no "hardcore vs casual" mentality, it's entirely made-up. WoW is what you want to make of it.
    Is that a positive thing?

    If you make a game mindlessly easy it usually isn't very popular. WoW being a sub game already means it is aiming for a more hardcore playerbase. I always felt that once wow moved to the korean grind model to try and draw out subscriptions it started to fall from grace.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by odamienskii View Post
    Exactly. jesus. i hate seeing the big picture and everyone else has a tiny brain. its so frustrating.

    Casuals cry to be accommadated for when ultimately they dont even give a shit about anything in the game all they care about is filling that social void in there lives.

    So in a nutshell, nothing you can do will make them unsub. so why on earth do you think they should be accommadated for only?? and shaft the more hardcore players out of the door......since wotlk this has been happening.

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    yes it has, but why only accommadate them???? why not give a wider scope of playability for everyone instead of just squishing it down and simplifying it so everyone can have legendaries and everyone can be stacked with 252. its so dumb.

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    Respect your rating etc, but you do realise that its you the player thats creating that difficulty right? against other players? how hard is pve for you? tracking a 40sec timer is hard i bet.
    I dont understand - do you want a harder game or just dont let most people get decent gear? Aint mythic raiding & high end pvp enough? Do most people clear mythic raids, 20+ keys & have 3k rating?

  11. #31
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sin of Pride View Post
    This hasn't really ever been true... It was more "casual" then some of the market but wow never was everyone gets to win till arguably the end of cata. I also don't think wow caters to the largest amount of players it caters to players who are addicted to the feeling of being rewarded.
    Hasn't been true?

    World of Warcraft was marketed as a casual MMO compared to its peers at release. Today, though, we'd argue that WoW was more hardcore in the past, but that's really just because the team was inexperienced with designing raid encounters, loot tables, and game mechanics. The game was harder not because it was a "hardcore" MMO, but because it was just new, breaking new ground and experimenting with new concepts that were only slightly more casual than the ones before them.

    All games play on our desire to be rewarded and to compete. All of them. WoW is no different there in any way. Every single game out there has some mechanic to reward the player, such as leveling up with xp, points or high scores, new weapons or shiny outfits, new areas to explore, achievements...you get the idea. That's gaming in a nutshell.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Sin of Pride View Post
    It didn't affect most players. Like covenants though it sucked ass if your pvp and pve talents differed drastically. Its the system designed only to annoy people who play multiple forms of content competitively.
    Yeah i've read up on it and I understand why people complained about. Seems like a no brainer for me. Should have been fixed before SL launched. I bet most people didnt give two shits about it(like me) and it did literally nothing for mye either good or bad, but it did hurt those that wanted to min-max. So in the end, it was useless and bad for everyone and should never have been a thing.

  13. #33
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    I dont understand - do you want a harder game or just dont let most people get decent gear? Aint mythic raiding & high end pvp enough? Do most people clear mythic raids, 20+ keys & have 3k rating?
    He or she doesn't want anyone else to be able to achieve what he or she thinks is the purpose of the game.

    Somehow someone else having 240-250 ilvl is just too much. How dare they? It really subtracts from the experience of the game if someone else has gear, too. :/

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Hasn't been true?

    World of Warcraft was marketed as a casual MMO compared to its peers at release. Today, though, we'd argue that WoW was more hardcore in the past, but that's really just because the team was inexperienced with designing raid encounters, loot tables, and game mechanics. The game was harder not because it was a "hardcore" MMO, but because it was just new, breaking new ground and experimenting with new concepts that were only slightly more casual than the ones before them.

    All games play on our desire to be rewarded and to compete. All of them. WoW is no different there in any way. Every single game out there has some mechanic to reward the player, such as leveling up with xp, points or high scores, new weapons or shiny outfits, new areas to explore, achievements...you get the idea. That's gaming in a nutshell.
    I think before I can really get into this I need to understand what you mean by casual. Do you mean time played or difficulty or a mix between the two?

    The issue wow is running into or perhaps its better put the problem I see is that the rewards are seen as hollow by a lot of the playerbase. No one celebrates the fact they get a max level legendary. They celebrate they don't have to do shitty torghast anymore. No one is happy they got rank 6 artifact research they are happy they don't have to do terrible world content.

    I think wow has moved way to far away from relying on multiplayer content in favor of trying to force players through timegated grind content.

  15. #35
    If you think the casuals are having a good time, I don't know what to tell you.

    They've got the same dogshit bare minimum effort content the rest of us have, only there's less of it.

    Korthia, there's like half an hour a day there of hunting the same "rares" and "treasures" that are up every single day, and for what? Some crap gear that can be replaced in any group content and a recolour of some mounts and transmogs you already don't use.

  16. #36
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by odamienskii View Post
    bullshit, ive been saying it since the simplifications in wotlk taking out certain stats because "hard to understand"

    HARD TO UNDERSTAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    so if they are hard to understand, tough luck that a player is dumb! you dont just feed him an easier game a shaft the players that enjoy it being a little more complex.

    A dumb player might never get to understand, or he may learn.
    An intelligent good player would have something to sink there teeth into.

    NOBODY LOSES BY THE GAME BEING MORE COMPLEX
    If nobody loses by the game being more complex, then nobody loses by the game being more simple.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Yeah i've read up on it and I understand why people complained about. Seems like a no brainer for me. Should have been fixed before SL launched. I bet most people didnt give two shits about it(like me) and it did literally nothing for mye either good or bad, but it did hurt those that wanted to min-max. So in the end, it was useless and bad for everyone and should never have been a thing.
    Everything about conduits can really be seen through this lens and was reported to blizzard during alpha. Sadly they wanted a timegated heavy grind system for high end players to do so they put it in the game regardless of the warnings.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmist View Post
    If you think the casuals are having a good time, I don't know what to tell you.

    They've got the same dogshit bare minimum effort content the rest of us have, only there's less of it.

    Korthia, there's like half an hour a day there of hunting the same "rares" and "treasures" that are up every single day, and for what? Some crap gear that can be replaced in any group content and a recolour of some mounts and transmogs you already don't use.
    Ah yes, the 10 years on mmoc with 5k+ posts ""casual"", a rare sight to behold!

    These discussions are always so pointless without some real data.

  19. #39
    I think it's time to straight up cater to the Altoholics. We've had casual and hardcore metas, it's time to embrace those that can't stick to one main for more than a month at a time.

  20. #40
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sin of Pride View Post
    Everything about conduits can really be seen through this lens and was reported to blizzard during alpha. Sadly they wanted a timegated heavy grind system for high end players to do so they put it in the game regardless of the warnings.
    Well, the OP wants complexity and more hardcore players, having the old conduit system would basically be what the OP wants.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

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