I feel optimistic about WoW

[Ihavewaffles]

Op just created his account here, not at all suspect..insults people here n outright lies about everyone loving bfa amongst other things.

As for this guy Relapses, his last thread is asking for cross faction...yeah, pretty obvious he should never be listened to.

[Xykotic]

Not even a little.

[Ekis]

"No bias" says the dude who willfully slops up anything that supports a predisposition of negativity.

Well, unless you have information that could potentially change his predisposition, what seems to be wrong with the stance he's taken? Doesn't that mean you're biased if you refuse to see Blizzard in any light other than altruistic/good?

I'm not really sure what this post meant to be other than an ad hominem attack. Right or wrong, he stated what he stated and gave his evidence to it.

[Kaver]

Again, why are you "enduring" anything? You either enjoy the game or you don't. If you honestly feel like the game is a chore then maybe it's time for you to use a bit of introspection and realize maybe WoW just isn't for you any more.

Again, I’m enduring the bad parts of the game because the good parts are still worth it. It’s pretty simple.

The good still outweighs the bad. Does that mean we should just lean back and accept the bad? No of course not!

WoW is definitely still the game for me! You seem to think I dislike the game as a whole and that’s definitely not true. I don’t understand why we have to view the topic with this “either or” mentality. A game like WoW is not either good or bad. It’s very nuanced. Some parts of WoW are awesome and some parts of WoW are horrible. And we want Blizzard to reduce the horrible part of it.

The core of WoW is great. M+ and raiding is great. But Blizzard keep adding restrictive systems on top of that which makes it much less enjoyable than it potentially could be. And these restrictive systems seem pointless most of the time since they don’t add any tangible improvements to gameplay.

In the end: I love wow and I just want it to be as good as it can be.

[Mendzia]

Ah, the duality of the WoW community.

Players: Blizzard, please make your game less shitty by allowing free Covenant swapping, removing Covenant energy, removing the AOE cap, making Torghast less of a chore and improving Legendary crafting

::Blizzard makes the game less shitty by doing all of these things::

Players: lol just doing it for the PR

Blizzard:

Generally speaking 9.1.5 brings many good changes but...
They had feedback from players since 1st alpha that most of these stupid systems are just aritificial gatings and time consuming pointless grind.
IT IS just PR move to remove these and push them as patch feature... which many people expected.
Stop pretending that they suddenly listen to community now.

[Flaim]

• Not all players achieve AOTC
• Not all players run M+
• Not all players participate in Arena/RBGs

Congratulations, your entire argument has been defeated.

so, for pre-election trends to be valid they'd need to ask literally every single person who's allowed to vote? your bait attempts are as see-through as water. i'm just replying for the fun of argueing.
i mean, if you were interested in an honest discussion, you'd counter the data with your own evidence instead of going for ad-hominems. except, you're not doing anything besides attacking people.

[Sin of Pride]

"Trend extrapolations" based on unverifiable third party data (in itself based on unknown assumptions) are not facts. There's a universe of assumptions in there and you should not pretend as if there aren't. Only Blizzard knows for a certainty what its subscribers are and precisely where revenue is coming from as well as player churn. There's also the matter of where you anchor your data poles and what exactly you're looking at. I can easily look at some retail chain during the 4th quarter of the year and compare it to the second or third quarter of the next year and "trend extrapolations" would appear to be catastrophic. Examination of stuff like raid participation to draw general conclusions is very questionable as there is no special consistent baseline. A drop-off in participation in any one part of the game does not automatically lead to the conclusion that the entire game is experiencing the same drop-off. It may be, it may not. It's not data that leads to generalization except in the special case of that one area of the game.

I spent the time to watch Bellular's video and he's not being honest where he draws factual conclusions based on trends and assumptions. There is no such animal as a factual conclusion under those conditions. This is why forecasting about customer behavior generally is often quite wrong even when their base data is public and recognized as such. Christmas is a busy time. Late spring and summer are not.

We do have some data though and to pretend we don't isn't useful either. What we do have is armory info now that isn't exact by any means something as simple as someone logging onto an alt to do a mission table will trigger it as a active character. Even with that info being entered wow isn't doing as well as it has in the past.

[Aggressive]

Gearing and itemization was almost perfect at the end of BFA. The randomness, and cool effects from the corrupted gear, and changing Azerite armor was almost universally praised by the players. Nyalotha was extremely well done, and the quest daily content was engaging for almost the entire patch life. Also soloable content from the Stormwind and Orgrimmar scenarios was a ton of fun, especially when you did the max.

- - - Updated - - -



If they implemented all the changes that players have "wanted" over the years, the game would be a complete disaster and would have lost much more players earlier on.

NOT implementing changes that players want is working out just fine for the game....../sarcasm. These changes is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy toooooooooooooooo late coming for the game. A great majority of the players want to see Boringlands gone and over. As you can see when Blizzard doesn't listen to the player base sooner you end up having a shit fest of not enough MAU's

- - - Updated - - -

Generally speaking 9.1.5 brings many good changes but...
They had feedback from players since 1st alpha that most of these stupid systems are just aritificial gatings and time consuming pointless grind.
IT IS just PR move to remove these and push them as patch feature... which many people expected.
Stop pretending that they suddenly listen to community now.

This....We all know Blizzard does a poor poor poor job of listening to the gaming community. You are right in saying this is nothing but a PR move, and I would add by saying it is a move to cover their ass during this whole sexual harassment thing to keep MAU's in the game cause no one can tell me right now that the MAU's are at a all time high.

[Sin of Pride]

NOT implementing changes that players want is working out just fine for the game....../sarcasm. These changes is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy toooooooooooooooo late coming for the game. A great majority of the players want to see Boringlands gone and over. As you can see when Blizzard doesn't listen to the player base sooner you end up having a shit fest of not enough MAU's

- - - Updated - - -



This....We all know Blizzard does a poor poor poor job of listening to the gaming community. You are right in saying this is nothing but a PR move, and I would add by saying it is a move to cover their ass during this whole sexual harassment thing to keep MAU's in the game cause no one can tell me right now that the MAU's are at a all time high.

I mean a company doing what its customers want is how every successful business not based directly on a vice should work. I am not going to fault blizzard on finally getting their ego checked and doing so.

That said next expansion they need to show there isn't any unfriendly systems to players. I see another choreghast, renowned, or conduits im done. If they are dumb enough to add another stupid system to 9.2 im done as well.

It feels like things are tenuous at best right now the weird part is it seems to feel that way to blizzard now to.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I literally went to the links in the video to get all that info for you. Sorry if he's not spoon-feeding it enough for you.

There are literally no links, just listing sites with no URL's are not links.

Yes, Bellular never gave exact number of subscribers or even characters and mentions this very issue. The point is that the under-reporting remains consistent over time (as your quote of their disclaimer points out) which still shows that activity is dropping precipitously over that time. In fact, that disclaimer makes the drop in characters even more severe, given that they specifically say the percentages remain the same so when it was reporting higher numbers there were even higher numbers left out.

He does give exact character number's here's the time tamp. https://youtu.be/ToaLY0DF2gY?t=369 And If under reporting remains consistent that could very well mean that the % stays the same but a rise In the EU would be off set by a fall in NA with no way of knowing it ever even existed as most of the data is lost.

So you're calling him a liar, with no evidence, all while claiming he provides no evidence, which he has done. The links are in the video, it's not his fault if you don't want to bother to go to them (which you clearly did anyway, so not sure what your complaint really is) and the "missing" data is thoroughly explained and accounted for, if you take the time to actually listen or think it through.

I mean he's a proven Liar showcased by his video's about 8.3 And the QA department, rather he's lying about this is more questionable but Id lead towards he is atleast a bit if wowranksio is any thing to go off of and given the fact that he site's the investor reports and total blizzard MAU to say wow's doing poorly even though the total MAU has been dropping for multiple quarters while wow it self reported rises in MAU which he leaves out.


If you want evidence of him being a liar though here's a link to another thread about his statement's to about the QA team and the actual info.
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...W-content-quot
https://www.mmo-champion.com/showthr...3#post52056283

[Delever]

The reason why people are now blaming blizzard and calling this a PR move is because this is the 3rd expansion in a row where this fiasco happened and the fact that the ripcord is being pulled at the same time as their reputation is getting tarnished is no coincidence. If they were not going through the sexual assault fiasco they would have likely not acted so fast just like the last 2 expansions.

[Syegfryed]

i will only feel optimistic if Danuser and his team are fired and Ion is moved back into raid design

[TyrannicalPuppy]

With all the positive changes to the game coming in 9.1.5, I can't help feel optimistic about the game and the direction they are heading in with it.

I'm excited to see what 9.2 brings, and 9.3, and eventually a new expansion in 10.0. I bet they will plan some massive expansion for 10.0 to celebrate 20 years of WoW.

Do you feel optimistic about WoW and where its headed?

This is literally just part of the cycle of "release expansion with a bunch of shit players don't like, then retroactively fix it after multiple patches"

So no. And you shouldn't either

[Empower]

This is literally just part of the cycle of "release expansion with a bunch of shit players don't like, then retroactively fix it after multiple patches"

So no. And you shouldn't either

It is slightly different with most of the fixes being in the mid patch rather then last so that shows improvement at least...

Blizzard seems genuinely worried and uncertain of their future this time though. I hope the feeling sticks.

[Woobels]

I'm not very hopeful after 3 expansions that basically followed the same trajectory each time, with people warning Blizzard each of those times too. I hope the beating Blizzard/WoW took recently bodes well for the next expansion but I'm not naive enough to be hopeful.

[Nootz]

It is slightly different with most of the fixes being in the mid patch rather then last so that shows improvement at least...

Blizzard seems genuinely worried and uncertain of their future this time though. I hope the feeling sticks.

What should worry you is how quickly they were able to implement all of these good changes. If they have this stuff loaded just waiting for subs to tank to release it and generate revenue, why can't they just make the game good from the start with these features in from the beginning? It shows a terrible game design philosophy most likely from Activision wanting the game to generate good quarterly reports or axe the game for being a loss. So to save their own asses they do content pacing like this.

And this isn't stuff that took them long to do because a lot of these changes are based on feedback they heard in alpha/beta. They definitely had this stuff pre-planned.


And Bellular should not be taken seriously. The guy shits all over wow in his podcast show and then releases a video on how good some things are and things you should be doing in the game you're missing out on. He's a clickbait machine and only follows the trends to keep making money on his channel. You can't blame him, he's gaming the system, but you shouldn't take his advice/thoughts as genuine.

[Empower]

What should worry you is how quickly they were able to implement all of these good changes. If they have this stuff loaded just waiting for subs to tank to release it and generate revenue, why can't they just make the game good from the start with these features in from the beginning? It shows a terrible game design philosophy most likely from Activision wanting the game to generate good quarterly reports or axe the game for being a loss. So to save their own asses they do content pacing like this.

And this isn't stuff that took them long to do because a lot of these changes are based on feedback they heard in alpha/beta. They definitely had this stuff pre-planned.


And Bellular should not be taken seriously. The guy shits all over wow in his podcast show and then releases a video on how good some things are and things you should be doing in the game you're missing out on. He's a clickbait machine and only follows the trends to keep making money on his channel. You can't blame him, he's gaming the system, but you shouldn't take his advice/thoughts as genuine.

Gotta stop blaming Activision bobby doesn't know anything about wow.

A lot of it is unskilled untalented devs pushing pet projects. The playerbase knows more about the game then most devs do at this point.

WoW has suffered brain drain for years hiring bottom of the barrel devs with rock bottom wages riding off their reputation.

[Kaver]

A lot of it is unskilled untalented devs pushing pet projects. The playerbase knows more about the game then most devs do at this point.

Unfortunately this is probably the truth. By name, Blizzard is still the same company, but it’s not the same people.

It’s the same with any sport team: you can be the biggest club in the world but if you got shit players then you’re not going to win anything.

[Nootz]

Gotta stop blaming Activision bobby doesn't know anything about wow.

A lot of it is unskilled untalented devs pushing pet projects. The playerbase knows more about the game then most devs do at this point.

WoW has suffered brain drain for years hiring bottom of the barrel devs with rock bottom wages riding off their reputation.

He doesn't know about wow but he does know about quarterly earnings. You're delusional if you think he's not making Blizz do what they can to make each quarter look good.

[Draco-Onis]

It is slightly different with most of the fixes being in the mid patch rather then last so that shows improvement at least...

Blizzard seems genuinely worried and uncertain of their future this time though. I hope the feeling sticks.

The next expansion will be the real marker if things have truly changed, we've been through this before you can you cynically say that the scandals are the reason this is coming earlier than expected. I do not see any apology, acknowledgement that these systems were badly designed or the thinking behind this sudden change. You cannot expect different results with the same people in charge, the same attitude still remains at Blizzard that they know better than the whining players.