Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Tanaria]

Great, so why are we still agueing? I even said mult. times that silvermoon is fine as it is. No one wants to take your precious blood elves from the stinky tends of derpimarr. I don't understand why you seem to be so defensiv about BEs all the time. There is stuff that is just fact and why we ended up where we are.

Silvermoon is not fine the way it is. Silvermoon needs updating for Horde Blood Elves.
The city looks like a poor-man's GTA Vice City from the PS2 era. The Exodar is the same.

I mean why are we arguing? You've got your High Elves in Stormwind...? A decent and fitting city, all things considered..? Horde have Blood Elves with an unfinished Silvermoon.

[Pheraz]

Silvermoon is not fine the way it is. Silvermoon needs updating for Horde Blood Elves.
The city looks like a poor-man's GTA Vice City from the PS2 era. The Exodar is the same.

I mean why are we arguing? You've got your High Elves in Stormwind...? A decent and fitting city, all things considered..? Horde have Blood Elves with an unfinished Silvermoon.

What I meant but poorly expressed was, that Silvermoon for the horde is fine as it is. The visuals are horrible

[Tanaria]

What I meant but poorly expressed was, that Silvermoon for the horde is fine as it is. The visuals are horrible

Ah I see.
Yes, I agree that it's fine with it being on the Horde.

Exodar is perfect for the Alliance, but both need a serious update along with Quel'Thalas and the Draenei Isles.

And yes, I am a Blood Elf fan - but do I believe the Blood Elves are the masters of everything? No. Do they make good Warlocks? Yes, I guess so. Are they the best Warlocks/Felweavers? No - not by any stretch of the imagination. Until they do what the Eredar and Orcs have done, Blood Elves will never be the best Warlocks.
Can Blood Elves lose the Sunwell, so Silvermoon is changed in a way which emphasizes their mastery of arcane magical practices? Yes. Should they lose the Sunwell? Honestly, I believe so - Silvermoon could be changed in a way where it's still the Blood Elf, but has more Blood Crystals and Fel Crystals dotted around.

[Mace]

Silvermoon is not fine the way it is. Silvermoon needs updating for Horde Blood Elves.
The city looks like a poor-man's GTA Vice City from the PS2 era. The Exodar is the same.

I mean why are we arguing? You've got your High Elves in Stormwind...? A decent and fitting city, all things considered..? Horde have Blood Elves with an unfinished Silvermoon.

I definitely agree on the updating part for Silvermoon. And it should be incredibly beautiful, which all elf cities should be, whether htey're on the horde or alliance. The problem is horde fans are okay with only having hte pretty cities and seem to want alliance elves to have worse.

And definitely disagreeing that Stormwind is suitable for any elf race - void/high or night elf - when Silvermoon and Suramar are sitting there, and you have the likes of Zin'Azshari as options for night elves, Skyhold for high elves or a void adapted version of Silvermoon as a separate city.

Alliance fans covet the horde cities because they are actually perfectly represent what the high elves and night elven homes should be like properly, just like the blood elves were what should have been playable on the alliance as high elves.

This is why, blizzard either need to give them their own equally or more stunning cities, or make them share. Or remove both. The last option serves no one and does no favours to fan love.

[Tanaria]

I definitely agree on the updating part for Silvermoon. And it should be incredibly beautiful, which all elf cities should be, whether htey're on the horde or alliance. The problem is horde fans are okay with only having hte pretty cities and seem to want alliance elves to have worse.

And definitely disagreeing that Stormwind is suitable for any elf race - void/high or night elf - when Silvermoon and Suramar are sitting there, and you have the likes of Zin'Azshari as options for night elves, Skyhold for high elves or a void adapted version of Silvermoon as a separate city.

Alliance fans covet the horde cities because they are actually perfectly represent what the high elves and night elven homes should be like properly, just like the blood elves were what should have been playable on the alliance as high elves.

This is why, blizzard either need to give them their own equally or more stunning cities, or make them share. Or remove both. The last option serves no one and does no favours to fan love.

Stormwind is fairly suitable for the High Elves, considering they love working with Humans and many live between Stormwind and Dalaran.

Night Elves will likely get something on Hyjal/Nordrassil.
Forsaken will likely return to Lordaeron.

[elbleuet]

Your just ignoring the racism behind why the Blood Elves left the alliance.

again, it's taking features you like to the faction you don't like. Its not my fault your Alliance has crap writing which makes everything about the Humans. Honestly, I'm all for deleting the alliance races, barring Humans, at this point, because it wouldn't actually impact on the Alliance story.

Get over the Sin'dorei, Quel'Thalas and Silvermoon already.

Aww... Bad bad humans.

That's why the Blood Elves returned to Dalaran twice I suppose... Because humans are really bad and racist.


Anyways... Quel'Thalas and Silvermoon are part of Alliance Lore more than ever now. So no I don't get over it.

Also your comment about how the Alliance is all about humans and its history so bad is really funny considering what the blood elves have become in the Horde since Wotlk... Humans with long ears having faith in the light.

[Kyriani]

Very well done with the middle one, it's how I would imagine a Ren'dorei paladin. Did you base it on that concept?

Thanks! I didn't base the warlock design on a paladin. I just really like the voidheart warlock set, but wanted to envision it without the robe. I wish we could get a "skirt toggle" for robes in the transmog UI so I could have non-robed versions of robe sets. I also prefer seeing my character's face and hair so I went with that crown instead of the set hood.

If I were to put together void-themed paladin looks for a void elf, they'd probably be outfits like this:



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We can't confirm that's true tho; like yeah, we can make a pretty good Guess that High Elves could have been an alliance race, but Quel'thalas and the blood elves themselves? I think we were actually closer to them being enemies on a future expansion rather than Silvermoon being alliance.

Considering the ended up splitting the BE into "good" and "bad" ones, I think it is the far more likely scenario.

Want to know what makes me believe that draenei were originally supposed to be horde and blood elves alliance? It's the fact that the Exodar has an easily accessible back entrance right to the racial leader, while silvermoon doesn't lol!

All of these are without considering flying in mind cause there wasn't any flying in vanilla zones until cata:

Orgrimmar - side entrance to thrall
Undercity - tunnel to sylvanas
Thunderbluff - a road behind most of the structures, away from the npc's leading right to cairne/baine

vs.

Stormwind - have to go through the front gate, several choke points, and lots of npcs (prior to the docks exposing the other side but even then it's probably a longer road to Varian/Anduin).
Teldrassil - have to go through auberdine, to get to boat, to get to base of teldrassil, to use teleporter up to main city, then ride through all the npcs.
Ironforge - have to go through the front gate, ride through several choke points and npcs, before you get to the target.

It's probably just my own personal conspiracy theory but damn if it doesn't just make sense to me.

[Ardenaso]

I am not sure how night elves are enveloped into human potential. We had at least three expansions heavily centered around night elves. So this is obv. not an argument
Apart from this, blood elves did never fit into the horde because the whole aestetics is completly different.

never forget the supreme high priestess of the 10,000 year old amazons had to be taught by a 40 year old human about patience, and how the humans are almost always on the spotlight despite having 25,000 year old space aliens who are supposed to be the true masters of arcane, or tough and strong dwarves, or whatnot

the Horde is properly diversified at least and it's not always orcs

[Tanaria]

Aww... Bad bad humans.

That's why the Blood Elves returned to Dalaran twice I suppose... Because humans are really bad and racist.


Anyways... Quel'Thalas and Silvermoon are part of Alliance Lore more than ever now. So no I don't get over it.

Also your comment about how the Alliance is all about humans and its history so bad is really funny considering what the blood elves have become in the Horde since Wotlk... Humans with long ears having faith in the light.

You have to get over it. Draenei Isles is Alliance content.
Sin'dorei content is Horde content.

You've just got to look forward to a new Night Elf home and an updated Draenei isles. That will be Alliance content, whilst the Horde will see Forsaken returning to Lordaeron and an updated Quel'Thalas.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Want to know what makes me believe that draenei were originally supposed to be horde and blood elves alliance? It's the fact that the Exodar has an easily accessible back entrance right to the racial leader, while silvermoon doesn't lol!

All of these are without considering flying in mind cause there wasn't any flying in vanilla zones until cata:

Orgrimmar - side entrance to thrall
Undercity - tunnel to sylvanas
Thunderbluff - a road behind most of the structures, away from the npc's leading right to cairne/baine

vs.

Stormwind - have to go through the front gate, several choke points, and lots of npcs (prior to the docks exposing the other side but even then it's probably a longer road to Varian/Anduin).
Teldrassil - have to go through auberdine, to get to boat, to get to base of teldrassil, to use teleporter up to main city, then ride through all the npcs.
Ironforge - have to go through the front gate, ride through several choke points and npcs, before you get to the target.

It's probably just my own personal conspiracy theory but damn if it doesn't just make sense to me.

Mind. Blown.

[Amaterasu65]

And stereotyping the Horde is what makes me not like the Alliance fanbase. I don't know what it is with people like you who thinks they can dictate what each faction should be, but the Alliance is allowed to be a bit darker, but the Horde...NO! Must be only ORCS AND MONSTERS!!!!! RAWWWRR!

If you want the Horde to be "Sauron: LOTR Army" sort of thing, just play LOTRO. Azeroth is NOT Middle Earth. Sorry, but it's just fact.

I'm sorry that the alliance has crap writing with everything being about Humans. That's not the Horde fanbase's problem.

You're funny saying Alliance has bad writing and it's only about humans, when your faction butchered all of its leaders back to back. Thrall? Yeeted after Cata with no powers. Vol'jin? Becomes WC and dies. Garrosh? No comment. Baine? Alliance enthusiast. Sylvanas? Doesn't give a f about Horde except for her human boyfriend. Lor'themar? Irrelevant since the start until Azshara patch, then back to being irrelevant.

Btw we always had HE, we had their mount, their tabards and faction. We had zones with them being friendly only to the Alliance. And we had them in our cities since 2004, while your Horde leader Sylvanas still used the NE model. So don't be salty the Alliance got what was rightfully theirs. And this is the beginning. More customizations will come. Put it in your pipe and smoke it. Lemme go off on my Quel'dorei Steed while you run away on your hen (which VE also have the best version of).

xxx

[Ardenaso]

Jaina's High Elves in the Kalimdor Expedition had no problem working with the Horde in Warcraft 3, why shouldn't Quel'thalas proper? surely there would also be some Theramore High Elves who would reconnect with their Blood Elven kin and reaffirm to them that the Horde is good now since Archimonde's defeat

[elbleuet]

You have to get over it. Draenei Isles is Alliance content.
Sin'dorei content is Horde content.

You've just got to look forward to a new Night Elf home and an updated Draenei isles. That will be Alliance content, whilst the Horde will see Forsaken returning to Lordaeron and an updated Quel'Thalas.

Tanaria, Blizzard's principal narrative designer.

Thanks Tanaria, but this is about High elves we're talking here, not about your wishes and headcanons.

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Jaina's High Elves in the Kalimdor Expedition had no problem working with the Horde in Warcraft 3, why shouldn't Quel'thalas proper? surely there would also be some Theramore High Elves who would reconnect with their Blood Elven kin and reaffirm to them that the Horde is good now since Archimonde's defeat

There's a difference between working and being part of.

[confety]

You're funny saying Alliance has bad writing and it's only about humans, when your faction butchered all of its leaders back to back. Thrall? Yeeted after Cata with no powers. Vol'jin? Becomes WC and dies. Garrosh? No comment. Baine? Alliance enthusiast. Sylvanas? Doesn't give a f about Horde except for her human boyfriend. Lor'themar? Irrelevant since the start until Azshara patch, then back to being irrelevant.

Btw we always had HE, we had their mount, their tabards and faction. We had zones with them being friendly only to the Alliance. And we had them in our cities since 2004, while your Horde leader Sylvanas still used the NE model. So don't be salty the Alliance got what was rightfully theirs. And this is the beginning. More customizations will come. Put it in your pipe and smoke it. Lemme go off on my Quel'dorei Steed while you run away on your hen (which VE also have the best version of).

xxx

The high elves were part of the alliance of lordaeron for like ONE year, which do not exist anymore, also as long as i know, blood elves are literally high elves, as there is not a difference between them, and void elves are tainted by the void.

Yeah, true high elves are in the horde, as they are the ones that can be truly made without any "infusion" or corruption, aka purified blue eyed belfs with no light eyes

[Varodoc]

Thanks! I didn't base the warlock design on a paladin. I just really like the voidheart warlock set, but wanted to envision it without the robe. I wish we could get a "skirt toggle" for robes in the transmog UI so I could have non-robed versions of robe sets. I also prefer seeing my character's face and hair so I went with that crown instead of the set hood.

I see, I thought it was supposed to be a Paladin because of the crown and purple colour scheme (it reminds me of the purple Judgement set).

By the way that left transmog looks great, that would totally pass as a dark fanatic of N'Zoth.

[elbleuet]

The high elves were part of the alliance of lordaeron for like ONE year, which do not exist anymore, also as long as i know, blood elves are literally high elves, as there is not a difference between them, and void elves are tainted by the void.

Yeah, true high elves are in the horde, as they are the ones that can be truly made without any "infusion" or corruption, aka purified blue eyed belfs with no light eyes

High elves are for everyone but :

In the Horde they are called blood elves.
In the Alliance they're still called High elves.

[Vaedan]

And when I see something that is bad story, I say it. Alliance story is bad. It's a meme at this point.

The Horde has Blood Elves because the story was set up from W3. They left the alliance because of racism.
You just don't like that story set up because it took things you like, to the faction you don't like. Not my problem, I'm afraid.

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Your just ignoring the racism behind why the Blood Elves left the alliance.

again, it's taking features you like to the faction you don't like. Its not my fault your Alliance has crap writing which makes everything about the Humans. Honestly, I'm all for deleting the alliance races, barring Humans, at this point, because it wouldn't actually impact on the Alliance story.

Get over the Sin'dorei, Quel'Thalas and Silvermoon already.

I agree with you that W3 established lore for blood elves alienating from the Alliance. The weird thing is that these events (Garithos' racism) is not reflected in their intro at all.

It is perfectly understandable that blood elves joined the Horde at the time they did. They want to use the Horde to reach Outlands and be done with it. At that point, they did not want to make great friends with Horde races. It changed in the moment they learned about Kael's betrayal and decided to put him down. That made sense.

What does not make sense is for blood elves staying part of the Horde afterwards. It stopped making sense with Lich King's defeat. With Sunwell restored and Scourge weakened, they had no reason to stay within the Horde. With their history of leaving faction after they find their partnership not benefitial, it seems quite weird. Garrosh's reign was also based on racism and orc supremacy, needs of other Horde nations were not needed. Blood elves had to contribute their resources and precious lives to Horde's warmongering, leaving their own boarders poorly defended. They even had to invite Silver Covenant for help during Amani crisis, because Farstriders were few and likely fought elsewhere. Besides Forsaken and handful of Darkspears, Horde never provided any significant help to blood elves, they mostly drained them. For that reason, I really don't like blood elves yelling Lok'tar ogar. It paints them in submissive light, it feels that they do what they are told. It just don't feel right.

I don't mean they should rejoin the Alliance. They shouldn't. Alliance had their thalassian population from exiles. What would be most organic decision for sin'dorei is to establish themselves as sovereign neutral nation, focusing on securing their homeland, clearing Ghostlands of the Scourge and restoring their kingdom's glory. Horde Warchiefs did not allowed them to do so. They demanded to die for them in a conflicts with little importance for blood elves. If there is any faction that could provide meaningful help for blood elves, it's Argent Crusade. They have holdings close to their lands, they showed interest in cleansing Plaguelands and fighting Scourge, which is one of the main threats to Quel'thalas.

Given the narrative, the only thing the Horde did for blood elves was allowing them enter Outland alongside them. Sunwell was restored by Velen (Alliance leader) with help of Shattered Sun Offensive (neutral faction) and help of heroes (both H&A), Lich King was defeated by united effort of both factions, Argent Crusade and Ebon Blade. Horde never bother to secure Quel'thalas. Horde never bothered to help cleanse Quel'thalas. My question is, why should be blood elves interested in being part of the faction which did so little for them?

[Tanaria]

Tanaria, Blizzard's principal narrative designer.

Thanks Tanaria, but this is about High elves we're talking here, not about your wishes and headcanons.

Fair is fair. You'll get an Elf city and will probably look better than Silvermoon.
It'll just be a Night Elf and/or Highborne-like city with kaldorei assets.

Plus an updated Azuremyst and Bloodmyst Isle in comparison to the Blood Elves and Horde, getting a new Quel'Thalas storyline.

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I agree with you that W3 established lore for blood elves alienating from the Alliance. The weird thing is that these events (Garithos' racism) is not reflected in their intro at all.

It's not reflected, because it didn't specifically happen to the Blood Elves in Silvermoon. I mean, they were aware of it, because they didn't trust the Alliance as per the quests with the Blood Hawk Farstriders.
It was the Sunfury, who later joined the Legion, who bore the brunt of the racism.

Rommath was part of that and was very influence is not joining forces with the Alliance.

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What does not make sense is for blood elves staying part of the Horde afterwards. It stopped making sense with Lich King's defeat. With Sunwell restored and Scourge weakened, they had no reason to stay within the Horde. With their history of leaving faction after they find their partnership not benefitial, it seems quite weird. Garrosh's reign was also based on racism and orc supremacy, needs of other Horde nations were not needed. Blood elves had to contribute their resources and precious lives to Horde's warmongering, leaving their own boarders poorly defended. They even had to invite Silver Covenant for help during Amani crisis, because Farstriders were few and likely fought elsewhere. Besides Forsaken and handful of Darkspears, Horde never provided any significant help to blood elves, they mostly drained them. For that reason, I really don't like blood elves yelling Lok'tar ogar. It paints them in submissive light, it feels that they do what they are told. It just don't feel right.

I don't mean they should rejoin the Alliance. They shouldn't. Alliance had their thalassian population from exiles. What would be most organic decision for sin'dorei is to establish themselves as sovereign neutral nation, focusing on securing their homeland, clearing Ghostlands of the Scourge and restoring their kingdom's glory. Horde Warchiefs did not allowed them to do so. They demanded to die for them in a conflicts with little importance for blood elves. If there is any faction that could provide meaningful help for blood elves, it's Argent Crusade. They have holdings close to their lands, they showed interest in cleansing Plaguelands and fighting Scourge, which is one of the main threats to Quel'thalas.

Given the narrative, the only thing the Horde did for blood elves was allowing them enter Outland alongside them. Sunwell was restored by Velen (Alliance leader) with help of Shattered Sun Offensive (neutral faction) and help of heroes (both H&A), Lich King was defeated by united effort of both factions, Argent Crusade and Ebon Blade. Horde never bother to secure Quel'thalas. Horde never bothered to help cleanse Quel'thalas. My question is, why should be blood elves interested in being part of the faction which did so little for them?

Did it make sense for the Night Elves and Forsaken to choose their respective factions?

However bad it was, Blizzard went with it and the Blood Elves, mainly through their link with Sylvanas, sided with the Horde.
The Draenei, through their immediate meeting with the Night Elves and through a small Alliance expedition, where a night elf priestess held a position of authority - joined the Alliance. Plus, they were attacked by Sunfury Blood Elves - so relations were already sour between them and the Sin'dorei - even though Silvermoon had no true idea on what Sunstrider was doing.

Kael'thas and Rommath, having knowledge on the Mag'har Orcs who weren't corrupted by fel - that isn't really referenced. Silvermoon didn't know them, but it certainly knew Sylvanas.

[Vaedan]

Did it make sense for the Night Elves and Forsaken to choose their respective factions?

However bad it was, Blizzard went with it and the Blood Elves, mainly through their link with Sylvanas, sided with the Horde.
The Draenei, through their immediate meeting with the Night Elves and through a small Alliance expedition, where a night elf priestess held a position of authority - joined the Alliance. Plus, they were attacked by Sunfury Blood Elves - so relations were already sour between them and the Sin'dorei - even though Silvermoon had no true idea on what Sunstrider was doing.

Kael'thas and Rommath, having knowledge on the Mag'har Orcs who weren't corrupted by fel - that isn't really referenced. Silvermoon didn't know them, but it certainly knew Sylvanas.

Again, I'm not arguing against blood elves joining the Horde. I'm actually fine with blood elves joining the Horde and staying there until the end of WotLK. My point was about them not actually having enough motivations to stay afterwards, because the Horde only drags them to conflicts unrelated to them, costing them resources and lives of their people, leaving them unable to fully defend their homeland when Amani prepares to attack Silvermoon, or even fully retake Ghostlands and restore the land. Elves also faced mistrust and prejudice from other Horde races since they joined the faction and later even racism (hello Garrosh). They left Alliance for way less then that. Also, I'm not saying they should join the Alliance. They shouldn't.

It has also nothing to do with night elves, forsaken or draenei joining their perspective factions too.

[ravenmoon]

Blood Elves stopped being Alliance after the 2nd War.
It clearly states that Anasterian did not feel that the Alliance had his people's interests at heart and then we had Garithos afterwards.

The Blood Elves and Lor'themar especially, had a clear link with Sylvanas, which in turn, brought them closer to the Horde. Kael'thas was aware of this allegiance and he pushed for it through Rommath.
Lor'themar had no links to the Alliance, so joining the Horde was (and still remains) the better option.

If they were alliance, they'd be enveloped into "Human Potential" and we see how well that works for the Night Elves. It's part of the reason why I am such a Blood Elf fan - they would have 0 charm being Alliance. So bland and boring and just LOTR - I mean, if you want to play a race, that is allied to Humans and looks like Blood Elves (without the void stuff), play LOTRO.

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Well, it's not about letting the elf haters get to me, it's all about what's fair. I mean, elves have 4 playable races at the moment. We're not exactly bleeding for options.

And, I remember how I felt when I saw WoD for the first time:
"Great...more Orcs!"
I don't want that same feeling to happen, about Elves. Yes, Elves will take a big stage in WoW because they are a large species, but just like Orcs in 2014, you can have far too much of a good thing.

I'd love more Blood Elf options, but I'm a realist and the fact is, we aren't starved for options. We can play as 4 different elves and RP 5 different elves. Sometimes, we have to take a step back and let the other races have their time. I mean, we're all still waiting for the Draenei and Darkspear Heritage armors.

Maybe San'layn/Dark Ranger options come available in 11.0 or something? Maybe "Rommath/Magister" tattoos come then as well?

Nah, we are talking about more elves, not more of other races. Presumably more elves means more other sub races.

but night elf worgen are worgen, why should humans be favoured as the humanoid version of those worgens givign them yet another race? why can't it be night elves who only have 1 allied race, even though elves have 2.

We want more elves, but that's not to say we want them without other races.

Your WoD scenario is when Blizzard just focused on orcs.. , no other races.

If we get naga, you can't avoid elves, they are an elf based race, whether as n allied race or full race. And an elf for them would be cool. Optional transofmation means if you hate elves you can just stay in serpent form, if you love elves you have a choice. Haters would say, give us serpent form and remove elf mode totally, the reason they say that even though they have a choice to be in serpent form all the times, is because they hate elves, and don't like you playing them.. so whether blizzard gave no elf improvements, they'd complain..because you play it, and theys ee many elves around.

The elven subraces have not increased the elf fans or elven popularity, what's happened is that the elf players have used other elf options. mostly. I think only human n umbers suffered from void elves really, but then humans are still very poppular.