I feel optimistic about WoW

[Kalocy Jim]

Now, this is your opinion on that....

Most people already left the game. Why? Because Shadowlands content was bad + the terrible content + the terrible voice acting + terrible divided zones that create horrible experience moving from one area to another (wasted time). Etc.

How i know people left the game?. FF14 is crowded like it has never been before. ElderScrolls Online too.

What could improve the game? A new expansion.

Anecdotal evidence.

Do you have any subscription data to back up your claims?

[Empower]

Anecdotal evidence.

Do you have any subscription data to back up your claims?

We have armory activity and unless your a believer in everyone just quit an alt or two there has been some damage.

The feeling of if they fuck up again next expansion it's done is drifting through the higher end community.

[Kalocy Jim]

I have been here since vanilla.
Pretty obvious when developer is doing his best to make the game as fun as possible - and when he is drip feeding QOL and features atom by atom because management tells him to do so.

Blizzard "does not get to win" because they themselves chose to lose just to maximize $ at all costs, because they only care about draining out that tiny last cent possible even if it means every customer they got hates their guts and they are reviled.

In your opinion.

In my view, I still really enjoy the game. The features of the expansion, the theme, the dungeons, the raids, the game mechanics are all good things imo. Can they be better, certainly, which is what the 9.1.5 changes aim to improve. But to say that they are drip feeding QOL features because "management tells him to do so" is disingenuous at best. You don't know that. You don't work for Blizzard do you?

All I can say is that from my outside perspective (since you know, im not an employee of Blizzard and all), they are doing a good job with good features in their first "mid-tier" patch. They look positive.

Again, you seem to have been affected by the toxic streamer / youtuber negativity, because all you are doing is regurgitating their talking points.

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We have armory activity and unless your a believer in everyone just quit an alt or two there has been some damage.

The feeling of if they fuck up again next expansion it's done is drifting through the higher end community.

I didn't ask about armory activity. Do you have any subscription data to back up your claims?

[Aleksej89]

.

I dont watch youtube nor twitch about wow.
Actually just noticed your account is brand new, sorry but your overall stance reeks of troll/bait at worst and clueless newcomer at "best".
Nothing personal but i would rather just ignore you and save myself the time.

[Empower]

In your opinion.

In my view, I still really enjoy the game. The features of the expansion, the theme, the dungeons, the raids, the game mechanics are all good things imo. Can they be better, certainly, which is what the 9.1.5 changes aim to improve. But to say that they are drip feeding QOL features because "management tells him to do so" is disingenuous at best. You don't know that. You don't work for Blizzard do you?

All I can say is that from my outside perspective (since you know, im not an employee of Blizzard and all), they are doing a good job with good features in their first "mid-tier" patch. They look positive.

Again, you seem to have been affected by the toxic streamer / youtuber negativity, because all you are doing is regurgitating their talking points.

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I didn't ask about armory activity. Do you have any subscription data to back up your claims?

Why would that not be useful data? Its records every character that did anything as involved as checking a mission table over 60 days. It isnt sub numbers but it dropping by more then half means either this expansion has drastically changed player behavior rapidly or a lot of people quit.

[Kalocy Jim]

Why would that not be useful data? Its records every character that did anything as involved as checking a mission table over 60 days. It isnt sub numbers but it dropping by more then half means either this expansion has drastically changed player behavior rapidly or a lot of people quit.

Every expansion has had similar drop off since Cataclysm.

Expansion is released. High player activity.

Expansion hits summer / in between major content updates. Lower player activity.

Your "source" doesn't prove at all that subscriptions have dropped any more than they may or may not have normally dropped at this point in an expansion life cycle.

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I dont watch youtube nor twitch about wow.
Actually just noticed your account is brand new, sorry but your overall stance reeks of troll/bait at worst and clueless newcomer at "best".
Nothing personal but i would rather just ignore you and save myself the time.

Is that what you do in real life? Shut down and ignore people and points of view you disagree with? I feel like I was very cordial in my interaction with you, and thought it was a good discussion. But no problem, go ahead and ignore me. Save yourself the time with keeping an open mind and considering other points of view.

[gubasti]

Unsure, the story seems unreliable.

[Kalocy Jim]

FF14 YEARLY POPULATION CHART:
https://mmo-population.com/r/ffxiv

ElderScrolls Online YEARLY POPULATION CHART:
https://mmo-population.com/r/elderscrollsonline

Shadowlands release date: November 23, 2020

You can see how the numbers goes up for both games during Shadowland expansion (people leaving in higher numbers and moving into these two games). And since Activision/Blizzard doesn't dare to show their real numbers anymore, I'm afraid, i have to use the numbers of the other games to show the flow of players moving into these games. Other MMO's are missing from my numbers, because i don't play them, but i bet their numbers also went up.

Shadowlands has been the worst expansion since CATA:
https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/w...ft-shadowlands
User Score: 4.3.

Cata:
https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/w...raft-cataclysm
User Score: 5.8

Legion:
https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/w...arcraft-legion
User Score: 7.5

I mention the User Score, because is the real score based on the player base. Not payed critics.

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This is also a poor excuse to not see the reality of Activision/Blizzard World or Warcraft situation that this company is living today.
More news about it:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/video...-busting-nlrb/

Why the Lawsuit is important to this discussion? Because it affects the quality of what its being delivered to the players. August and September has been a "Damage Control" for Blizzard. They have started to make changes to the game, in a hurry to keep the players from leaving the game. These changes are not for being "the good devs that listen to the player base", its more like a desperate measure to reduce the damage done to the game popularity and the company reputation.

When you ask something like: Do you have any subscription data to back up your claims? You clearly know that we lack the subscription numbers, because Blizzard removed them the moment they started to lose subs and that started to look bad on their board presentations to the investors. So please, stop pretending that game is "doing great", because it isn't.

I have active subscriptions to multiple mmos. Again, you are presenting no conclusive data or evidence to suggest WoW subs have fallen.

Again, do you have any subscription data you can point me to, to back up your claim?

[Aggressive]

Every expansion has had similar drop off since Cataclysm.

Expansion is released. High player activity.

Expansion hits summer / in between major content updates. Lower player activity.

Your "source" doesn't prove at all that subscriptions have dropped any more than they may or may not have normally dropped at this point in an expansion life cycle.

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Is that what you do in real life? Shut down and ignore people and points of view you disagree with? I feel like I was very cordial in my interaction with you, and thought it was a good discussion. But no problem, go ahead and ignore me. Save yourself the time with keeping an open mind and considering other points of view.

Every time I hear stuff like "Show me Sources"where the subscriptions are low. "Link me websites" to prove yourself, I laugh my ass off. Cause WE ALL KNOW Blizzard does not show this kind of shit. But I always come back and say "Show me links" where it shows there are still HIGH subs in shitty WoW right now. "Show me links" where WoW is STILL #1. Yeah your statement is shit and just shows how much you are fanboy to Blizz right now. Which I get. It is people like you that they need right now. People who will love this shit expansion and just keep coming back for more shit systems and garbage.

[Osmeric]

Shadowlands has been the worst expansion since CATA:
https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/w...ft-shadowlands
User Score: 4.3.

Cata:
https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/w...raft-cataclysm
User Score: 5.8

Legion:
https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/w...arcraft-legion
User Score: 7.5

Battle for Azeroth:
https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/w...le-for-azeroth
User Score: 2.7

But give SL time, the User Score has fallen considerably since release.

[Garretdejiko]

I have active subscriptions to multiple mmos. Again, you are presenting no conclusive data or evidence to suggest WoW subs have fallen.

Again, do you have any subscription data you can point me to, to back up your claim?

The lack of it is a proof on its own. Blizzard stopped sharing numbers the moment the ship started sinking. Hasn't done ever since. The moment shareholders realize WoW is going down, they'll jump ship. The HS/WOW event is a transparent way to increase their MAU, the only number you'll hear about from them.

Funny to see as well how you ask for evidence, while saying "yeah i run a company thus i know stuff, positivity is the key of success, not possitive? to the streets you go".
For me you are just a poor excuse of a troll.

[Kalocy Jim]

I think the guy is a troll, just check his status on MMO Champ:
Kalocy Jim
Join Date: 2021-09-11

Some of his quotes so far:


This guy is just using an alt account to being toxic and behave like this.

--- snip ---

Is it a regular thing that people call other posters trolls on this site when they disagree with them?

I feel like I've been very cordial with people when responding to them here.

The guy you quoted completely took my posts out of context and made me sound like im a bad person for getting rid of negative employees. Thats not the case at all. How does that have anything to do with asking for subscription evidence to support their theory that there has been a WoW subscriber loss?

[Garretdejiko]

Is it a regular thing that people call other posters trolls on this site when they disagree with them?

I feel like I've been very cordial with people when responding to them here.

The guy you quoted completely took my posts out of context and made me sound like im a bad person for getting rid of negative employees. Thats not the case at all. How does that have anything to do with asking for subscription evidence to support their theory that there has been a WoW subscriber loss?

Since you seem to get your endorphin high with every quote notification, I'll do this.
You can't hide behind shallow cordiality and cry wolf whenever you crash into someone else's opinion.
To be completely real, you can be as optimistic as you want here. As much as you come out as obnoxious, it's your right to be so. What made things clear for me though, was the cash shop rare candy. Such a blantant horrible idea for a problem that stopped being a problem with the level squish, makes impossible to take your posts serious. Just a joke, a very unfunny one.

Plus, I love the inconsistency in your facade post by post. From "long time lurker" to "Is it a regular thing that people call other posters trolls on this site?". Come the fuck on lmao, at least make a script.

I think the guy is a troll, just check his status on MMO Champ:
Kalocy Jim
Join Date: 2021-09-11

Some of his quotes so far:
This guy is just using an alt account to being toxic and behave like this.

I wish, wholeheartedly, that he's a troll. People like these led blizzard into the comfort zone they had until 9.1

[Kalocy Jim]

Since you seem to get your endorphin high with every quote notification, I'll do this.
You can't hide behind shallow cordiality and cry wolf whenever you crash into someone else's opinion.
To be completely real, you can be as optimistic as you want here. As much as you come out as obnoxious, it's your right to be so. What made things clear for me though, was the cash shop rare candy. Such a blantant horrible idea for a problem that stopped being a problem with the level squish, makes impossible to take your posts serious. Just a joke, a very unfunny one.

Plus, I love the inconsistency in your facade post by post. From "long time lurker" to "Is it a regular thing that people call other posters trolls on this site?". Come the fuck on lmao, at least make a script.


I wish, wholeheartedly, that he's a troll. People like these led blizzard into the comfort zone they had until 9.1

Why are you attacking me? I'm simply trying to be optimistic about the game and spread that optimism to other people through positive posts. Thats it. No agenda. I'm not even trying to argue any points. I've said just be positive and optimistic and you will be happier in the short and the long run.

I guess it wasn't obvious to you that I was being a bit sarcastic about the "regular thing" comment of mine. It came off as very rude of the other poster to blatantly call me a troll for stating my opinion.

What do you gain out of attacking other posters on a fan site dedicated to a game? And being extremely negative and rude to others because they have a positive opinion and outlook on the game the fan site is about... its just strange. If you don't like the game, thats fine, just stop attacking other people for enjoying the game. Why post about a game you no longer enjoy and you no longer play? Its very strange behavior.

I don't care that you think the game lost subs, fine! You are free to that opinion! But I am also free to my opinion, and I choose to be positive and optimistic about the direction of the game, especially in the light of the great changes in 9.1.5.

Anyway, cheers mate. I hope you have a wonderful evening / day, wherever you may live!

[Garretdejiko]

Why are you attacking me? I'm simply trying to be optimistic about the game and spread that optimism to other people through positive posts. Thats it. No agenda. I'm not even trying to argue any points. I've said just be positive and optimistic and you will be happier in the short and the long run.

I guess it wasn't obvious to you that I was being a bit sarcastic about the "regular thing" comment of mine. It came off as very rude of the other poster to blatantly call me a troll for stating my opinion.

What do you gain out of attacking other posters on a fan site dedicated to a game? And being extremely negative and rude to others because they have a positive opinion and outlook on the game the fan site is about... its just strange. If you don't like the game, thats fine, just stop attacking other people for enjoying the game. Why post about a game you no longer enjoy and you no longer play? Its very strange behavior.

I don't care that you think the game lost subs, fine! You are free to that opinion! But I am also free to my opinion, and I choose to be positive and optimistic about the direction of the game, especially in the light of the great changes in 9.1.5.

Anyway, cheers mate. I hope you have a wonderful evening / day, wherever you may live!

If calling you out for you bs is attacking, fine, I'll take it.
I absolutely adore the way you try to frame IT as if I've been attacking multIple users, when I've been just replying to you. Kinda disingenuous after whinning about "made me sound like im a bad person".
Saddest part is, I've been baited for too long. Spew optimism and terrible cash shop ideas all you want, thankfully, your attempts won't make a difference, and won't mar further the experience to those that still play WoW.

[Ealyssa]

Ah, the duality of the WoW community.

Players: Blizzard, please make your game less shitty by allowing free Covenant swapping, removing Covenant energy, removing the AOE cap, making Torghast less of a chore and improving Legendary crafting

::Blizzard makes the game less shitty by doing all of these things::

Players: lol just doing it for the PR

Blizzard:

Forgot a key part there buddy, they "answered" ONE YEAR TOO LATE...
If you answer your wife/husband/OS one year after they ask you something, they will ditch you too. That's the problem. They already knew what was wrong, yet they still tried to get away with maximising player assle to boost whatever metric they feel they need.

9.1.5 is not an answer to what people asked, it's a "OH GOD OUR GAME IS ACTUALLY DYING WTF DO CAN WE DO !!!!"
That's what people are fed up with. 6+ years of beta feedback purposely never answered, ignored, before X.1.5 or X.2 when they "fix" what everybody already knew was flawed.
Way easier to sell something flawed and provide fixes as "content patch" than releasing something polished and creating actual good content for patches. They got away way too many times with that formula, and pushed the envelope a little further every time. Until it broke.

[Kalocy Jim]

Yep. I'm afraid that the comfort zone is more than over. And the strange thing is that it didn't came from the game itself or any patch. It came from the Lawsuit mixed with the bad reviews of the players about Shadowlands. Also add, that the past expansion was really bad, even Osmeric posted the User Score of 2.7 in Metacritics for BFA.
Like i said, Blizzard is on Damage Control right now, no wonder why we are reading so many news from them in here MMO Champ and WoWhead about new "features" they are working on. Shit hit the fan....

But sadly, the main reason that people was already leaving the game was because of the state of Shadowlands and its content. And also add the poor development for the story line that involves Shadowlands + the characters on it. Now i understand that this story line was written in a hurry just to fit expectations from Managers and CEOs. There is nothing good on it, just random text meant to make a "story" about Warcraft afterlife.

No next patch is going to fix Shadowland to make people return to the game. I have seen so many ex-WoW players on Final Fantasy 14, that i had the pleasure to help in the Novice Network and Taking some dungeons for them. All of them agree with the state of Shadowlands. Other players landed in ESO back at the beginning of Blackwood.

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Is clear that this guy is trolling. Just look at that answer:
Anyway, cheers mate. I hope you have a wonderful evening / day, wherever you may live!

An angry goodbye. We can't have a thread with people like that...

I thought my salutation was actually pretty nice. I really meant it that they have a wonderful evening / day. Its called decorum, and courtesy. We can disagree on things and still be kind to each other.

I disagree with you that they are in "damage control." I think the game is in a far better place than you and others think it is. I'll take Blizzards official press releases and investor reports over random youtuber "data" and negative hate anyday.

[deenman]

Bellular did a video about it if you care to know the truth. Data doesn't lie.

Sure you'll probably be able to spin it in a way where you can continue to believe what feels true to you. Everyone else knows that they lost half or more of their players so I don't think anyone cares whatever your personal delusion says.

they are in denial sadly,it wouldnt surprise me if people like him believe all these MILIONS of players just suddenly switched from doing endgame trackable content to doing random pet battles out in the wild

[nvaelz]

#Soloqueue

And keep all the old systems too.

[deenman]

I don't mind the action game direction of SL but they should make it less about MMO chores and more about ability then.

Blizzard has this philosophy: Make the player almost hate the game. Just keep it on the absolute edge of that and players won't know how to feel. How many weeks of Korthia is too much? make it a few more weeks. How many weeks of Torghast is too much? double it.

How long into the patch cycle before we reduce grind? not long enough.

If you wanna enjoy Shadowlands you either play it very... I mean pet battle casually, or you invest your life into it. Problem with that formula is there's just endless struggle and misery and people quit cuz of that, how do u even formulate it? it's all just a negative mess.

Sure, I can take a break and BRB a month later and enjoy leveling a character but the endgame reminds me of all that I didn't do the whole patch cycle and I'm not that casual(pet battles suck)

still not even close to how bad legion was with infinite ap grind,infinite m+ grind for that sweet titanforge proc that you had to repeat every patch,or the need to make multiple characters of the same class until you got the right legenderies,atleast today once a legendery gets nerfed or buffed....you can actualy get it without making a new character until you magicaly open it in a box