Class Skins would add many new classes and be a major draw for a new expansion

[Alanar]

Because Blizzard is not making the game for free so the only chance we have, is to make this kind of "customization" profitable so they can actually do it in the right way.

So not free 100% but not 100% behind shop, that is why it should be like skins system in LoL where you can get some for "free" playing the game or buying them (LoL system is different i know but is as example)

Look how all the datamined Legion Allied Race xmog weapons are still not for players until they got rape lawsuit 2 exp later, so blizzard will never do this for free.

Oke, but the shop is still a realy bad idea for skin like that.
I rather see it being unlockable through quests and such.
You know content in game.. adding stuff like that to an already hated shop would not be a very good idea, for obvious reasons.

[jellmoo]

Then, name a Priest ability that works like Starfall.

Shadow Crash or Holy Star would work.

Bow are usually faster than Wands. Not to mention that Wands don't fire off spells like Bows fire off abilities.

Wands are a 2.0 attack speed and I believe that bows are currently 3.0 attack speed, so the wand would actually be faster. And the second point is purely a visual. Remember, we're transmogging the wand into a bow, so the bow is actually firing off abilities.

Depends. The arrow that Tyrande shot at Nathanos wasn't magical, for example.

And Anduin, the Priest, wears plate and carries a sword. NPCs aren't 1 to 1 with player characters. Presenting a magic moon priestess that uses a bow and saying that she fires magic arrows is both on brand and easily accepted by players.

[username993720]

Shadow Crash or Holy Star would work.

No, they wouldn't.
They don't operate the same as Starfall.
And, you've got to decide on a spec, really, since mixing spec-exclusive abilities with others would upset balance.

And Anduin, the Priest, wears plate and carries a sword. NPCs aren't 1 to 1 with player characters. Presenting a magic moon priestess that uses a bow and saying that she fires magic arrows is both on brand and easily accepted by players.

Yes, but which kind of magical arrows? because wands cover all kind of magic types.

[jellmoo]

No, they wouldn't.
They don't operate the same as Starfall.
And, you've got to decide on a spec, really, since mixing spec-exclusive abilities with others would upset balance.

Sure they would. All I need is to change the art and animation to look like Starfall. That's literally it. They don't need to operate the same as Starfall. They just need to do damage to multiple enemies.

And why do I have to decide on a spec? I can have Starfall be wherever I want it to be. Not every spec of Monk can use Storm, Earth and Fire. Not every spec of this class needs to be able to use Starfall.

Yes, but which kind of magical arrows? because wands cover all kind of magic types.

And? What difference does it make? This is purely for flavour since nobody would ever actually care about the autoshot anyway as it would be a DPS loss to use it.

At this point you are realllly bending over backwards to find something that 'disproves' the idea.

[Lodreh]

...It's a parallel of Allied Races providing options for Races that would otherwise not be fully featured as 'New Race of the Expansion', like Mag'har, Dark Iron or Void Elves. And it's a simple enough system where they could throw a bunch of em at us at a time rather than pouring all their resources to just making *ONE* option.

Even Allied Races have unique racial abilities that are not just prettier versions of the same ability we've been using for years. I suppose I'm saying that 'Class Skins' would never do their Class justice by being a recolor of an existing class. It is a bare minimum, cheap, lazy way to 'add' new classes... but it doesn't really though... it's a shame, mockery of what we should get. A Necromancer should 'feel' different than playing a Warlock... not just names of abilities but what they are doing. The rotations (priorities) in casting should be alien to one another. It deserves to be it's own class not just a glyphed version.

[TBCCLOL]

Oke, but the shop is still a realy bad idea for skin like that.
I rather see it being unlockable through quests and such.
You know content in game.. adding stuff like that to an already hated shop would not be a very good idea, for obvious reasons.

Ye I know the shop is bad but this isn't FF14 sadly and we have to be realistic about Blizzard putting more effort into the shop rather than the game in terms of xmog/mount quality.

So since we cannot hope for a " class skin 100% from the game " I rather prefer a midway
Some skin in the game tied to Achiv/soloQ challenge like Tower Mage etc etc

And other "generic" on the shop

So player will enjoy unlocking those in the game and Blizzard will enjoy whales buying skin on the shop.

Shop is a terrible.idea from players pov but is a great idea from shareholders/manager pov

[Triceron]

Even Allied Races have unique racial abilities that are not just prettier versions of the same ability we've been using for years. I suppose I'm saying that 'Class Skins' would never do their Class justice by being a recolor of an existing class. It is a bare minimum, cheap, lazy way to 'add' new classes... but it doesn't really though... it's a shame, mockery of what we should get. A Necromancer should 'feel' different than playing a Warlock... not just names of abilities but what they are doing. The rotations (priorities) in casting should be alien to one another. It deserves to be it's own class not just a glyphed version.

Fair enough.

But what if Blizzard never intends it to be given what it deserves? Would you rather it never be represented in the game at all and have people left waiting for a class that will never be made because the gameplay is already so similar to classes or specs that already exist?

Class skins are the worst-case scenario option to still get to play a class that has little chance of getting a new playable class out of it, even if it deserves it. We're at a point where every new class added provides diminishing returns chances for every other class concept. The choices of a new class competes with every other option for that same spot, and spots are becoming rampantly limited. Theres no ideal situation where we can have a Necromancer, Dark Ranger, Blademaster, Warden and Shadow Hunter all deserving their own classes given enough time. The cumulative build up of too many specs to balance needs to be considered.

Personally, I say we have room for 2 new classes, which brings us to 42 specs in the game. That's being absolutely liberal, squeezing it tight. 36 right now is already quite overwhelming, and I doubt it will progress past 42.

Class skins are the alternative option that adds zero new specs to worry about. No bloat, no balance headaches, just new visuals that get carried over into every expansion moving forward. It's adding new classes out of convenience and practicality, where as the alternative is all-or-nothing for two more New Classes.

[Lodreh]

Fair enough.

But what if Blizzard never intends it to be given what it deserves? Would you rather it never be represented in the game at all...

Exactly, never half-ass something… either do it right or not at all.

[Triceron]

Exactly, never half-ass something… either do it right or not at all.

Does that include expansions? Cuz.... *points at the elephant in the room that is Shadowlands*

[username993720]

Sure they would. All I need is to change the art and animation to look like Starfall. That's literally it. They don't need to operate the same as Starfall. They just need to do damage to multiple enemies.

Then, it isn't Starfall. Starfall is categorized as either a targeted or self, continuous AoE, more in line with abilities like Blizzard and Rain of Fire.

And? What difference does it make? This is purely for flavour since nobody would ever actually care about the autoshot anyway as it would be a DPS loss to use it.

Because certain magic schools have various advantages/disadvantages.

At this point you are realllly bending over backwards to find something that 'disproves' the idea.

I don't have to disprove anything. It doesn't work. You just think it does. When a Priest can actually, mechanically, mimic a Balance Druid-like Ranger or a melee glaive combatant, then you'd have a point.

A Necromancer should 'feel' different than playing a Warlock... not just names of abilities but what they are doing. The rotations (priorities) in casting should be alien to one another. It deserves to be it's own class not just a glyphed version.

Why? it is already the clothed, staff-wielding spell caster like the Warlock and it already shares Shadow Bolt, and used to share Death Coil (now Mortal Coil), with the Warlock.

Personally, I say we have room for 2 new classes, which brings us to 42 specs in the game. That's being absolutely liberal, squeezing it tight. 36 right now is already quite overwhelming, and I doubt it will progress past 42.

I say there are at least 4.

[Triceron]

I say there are at least 4.

Then we're talking about 2035 by the time we see that 4th class.

[username993720]

Then we're talking about 2035 by the time we see that 4th class.

Probably.
Does the game have an expiration date?

[Aradur]

Or...you know...just get rid of all existing specializations (To be honest: Who the fuck needs Arms AND Fury Warrior? Who needs 3 different Rogues Speccs? Who needs Tank, DH and DK Tanks? Who needs 2 DK DD Speccs? Etc. etc.), make Classes without speccs and let every character have all classes and switch them like it successfully works in FFXIV. You could add new Classes every AddOn and add something new and fresh without the existing Nightmare of balancing all speccs as good as possible (which never works anyway...i don't even blame Blizzard...)

[Lodreh]

...Why?...

Otherwise what's the point... just play the Warlock.

[jellmoo]

Then, it isn't Starfall. Starfall is categorized as either a targeted or self, continuous AoE, more in line with abilities like Blizzard and Rain of Fire.

It's Starfall if it looks like Starfall and the tooltip says Starfall. Is Blizzard not Blizzard because it doesn't function the same as the RTS version? Spirit Wolves? Animate Dead? Abilities from the RTS have changed when transfered to WoW. I don't see why Starfall therefore has to be exactly the same.

Because certain magic schools have various advantages/disadvantages.

Again... So? How does this actually impact anything? Autoshot is pure flavour. You can do it if you want to, but you're killing your dps to do it anyway. If the damage is arcane or fire, there's no real difference here.

I don't have to disprove anything. It doesn't work. You just think it does. When a Priest can actually, mechanically, mimic a Balance Druid-like Ranger or a melee glaive combatant, then you'd have a point.

Saying that it 'doesn't work' does not just magically make it the case. If you want to say 'it doesn't work for me' that's perfectly fine. We can absolutely discuss why you don't like it or how it could possibly be done better. But you are trying to disprove something you don't like with really weird nitpicky things about wands and autoshot and how for some particular ability it has to function exactly like a 17 year old game in a different genre... You seem to have this super specific idea of what such a class absolutely has to be, so sure, if that's the case you should probably ignore the idea of a Class Skin since it won't satisfy you. But that's just the rub. It won't satisfy you.

- - - Updated - - -

Probably.
Does the game have an expiration date?

We do though. I'll be nearing 60 and been playing WoW for 30 years. I will possibly be nearing retirement, having been playing WoW for half my life, and still waiting to play a character concept I've wanted to since the beginning.

[Triceron]

Probably.
Does the game have an expiration date?

When players lose interest and it is deemed unprofitable.

I mean do you need to mind the expiration date of milk that's been left next to the radiator for the past 3 days? It will expire far sooner than any date.

[username993720]

Otherwise what's the point... just play the Warlock.

For the fantasy.

It's Starfall if it looks like Starfall and the tooltip says Starfall. Is Blizzard not Blizzard because it doesn't function the same as the RTS version? Spirit Wolves? Animate Dead? Abilities from the RTS have changed when transfered to WoW. I don't see why Starfall therefore has to be exactly the same.

Because we know how Starfall works in game. It is a continuous rain of stars. None of the Priest abilities do that.

Again... So? How does this actually impact anything? Autoshot is pure flavour. You can do it if you want to, but you're killing your dps to do it anyway. If the damage is arcane or fire, there's no real difference here.

There is, because certain encounters are still affected by damage type (like Viscidus) and there are the Resistance racials of races.

Saying that it 'doesn't work' does not just magically make it the case. If you want to say 'it doesn't work for me' that's perfectly fine. We can absolutely discuss why you don't like it or how it could possibly be done better. But you are trying to disprove something you don't like with really weird nitpicky things about wands and autoshot and how for some particular ability it has to function exactly like a 17 year old game in a different genre... You seem to have this super specific idea of what such a class absolutely has to be, so sure, if that's the case you should probably ignore the idea of a Class Skin since it won't satisfy you. But that's just the rub. It won't satisfy you.

That's not the case.
Tell me if a Priest can truly cover these:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zenp66w8i7c
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HmR6zlRwGQQ
https://heroesofthestorm.fandom.com/wiki/Tyrande
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Pri...(Warcraft_III)

It can't. No matter how you twist it.

We do though. I'll be nearing 60 and been playing WoW for 30 years. I will possibly be nearing retirement, having been playing WoW for half my life, and still waiting to play a character concept I've wanted to since the beginning.

You expiration date, not the game's.

When players lose interest and it is deemed unprofitable.

I mean do you need to mind the expiration date of milk that's been left next to the radiator for the past 3 days? It will expire far sooner than any date.

So, it is about to end soon?

[Triceron]

So, it is about to end soon?

Soon is relative.

Just like asking when the 4th new class would be added to the game. What time frame do you see? Honest question.

[username993720]

Soon is relative.

Just like asking when the 4th new class would be added to the game. What time frame do you see? Honest question.

Can't tell. I don't know what their plans are.

[Triceron]

Can't tell. I don't know what their plans are.

So you have to know what their plans are in order to know when the 4th class would be added? No predictions?