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  1. #21
    We don't need Titanforging back.

    We just need the ability upgrade gear to 259 using Valor.

  2. #22
    adding a lottery machine to bad game design won't suddenly make it fun.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post


    You know BFA had WF/TF too right?
    yes and who outside of dogtash players liked that sysem? i did not enjoy spaming keys as a raider, all the palyers i know in the range of wr 1 - 150 (and i know alot) did not lot like it. Keep your rng and leave the game for a cassino simulator raider want an equal playing field for parses and G ranking race, doing 90% parses cuz you dindt had a titanforeged diversfoly and Coral even if youre one of the best was not fun
    I.O BFA Season 3


  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Druid ist Op View Post
    yes and who outside of dogtash players liked that sysem? i did not enjoy spaming keys as a raider, all the palyers i know in the range of wr 1 - 150 (and i know alot) did not lot like it. Keep your rng and leave the game for a cassino simulator raider want an equal playing field for parses and G ranking race, doing 90% parses cuz you dindt had a titanforeged diversfoly and Coral even if youre one of the best was not fun
    Cap it at mythic ilvl and your issue is no longer an issue. Can be so simple..

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    Absolutely 100% agree. TF and Bonus rolls kept things interesting. Removing them because players who didn't understand probability couldn't control themselves was a bad change for the game overall. Loot in shadowlands is boring as shit.

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    By "competitive professional raider" you mean people who compete for world first right? Because I assure you even in top 50 guilds not everyone is running M+. Should they be with as faceroll as it is? Probably. But it also isn't fun.
    hmm, you should take a deep look at warcraftlogs and analyze there the players. because top 50 by far isnt enough….

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Isn't this what valor is for, though?

    I'd much rather upgrade items I know are BiS through valor that I can get in any dungeon, than run the same dungeon 500 times in a row hoping for a WF/TF drop of the right item.

    If you want a nice bonus reward, just have a valor blob drop on rare occasions that gives extra valor.
    Allow me to explain the true nature of Valor.........You only get so much a per week.... if you use ANY of it then it's gone forever. Been playing since the start of S2 and I have used valor on a trinket that finally dropped. Then after several weeks had enough to up my weapon. Both will get replaced if I get a lucky Vault.

    But this is where I saw the beauty of WF/TF. If you're a BIG key pusher (bigger than the majority of the people in your guild) then you are less likely to run a key with random people in your guild. There is nothing in there you need and unless you are just doing it from the goodness of your heart that's 45 mins that you could have spent on a bigger key. Now if there was a chance you could get you BiS at TF ilvls out of the instance you're more than likely to help the lesser geared.
    Me thinks Chromie has a whole lot of splaining to do!

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Cap it at mythic ilvl and your issue is no longer an issue. Can be so simple..
    its not, we talking about blizz you saw that with corruption i progressed up to mythic ilgynoth with 3 blue items fun right? and legion-bfa hard forgeing shit, they cant balance systems and will never do so.
    I.O BFA Season 3


  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    I'm not going to go in circles with you. There was a reason why it was removed from the game, and thats because the negatives far outweight the positives of the system. End of story.
    You make that sound like people complained about "noobs getting their BiS at super high level" was why Blizzard removed it. People were gearing too fast with it and the only thing it negatively impacted was the almighty time played metric!
    Me thinks Chromie has a whole lot of splaining to do!

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Druid ist Op View Post
    its not, we talking about blizz you saw that with corruption i progressed up to mythic ilgynoth with 3 blue items fun right? and legion-bfa hard forgeing shit, they cant balance systems and will never do so.
    But then the balance is your issue and not TF. If you play a wrong spec you won't see shit while progress raiding too. This has NOTHING to do with TF. TF in itself was fine, just the cap was too high. Items dropping better than mythic raid loot wasn't good, but again can be easily fixed.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    It's so boring without any chance to get an upgrade ever outside the waiting vault.

    I want to play the game to get upgrades, not sit and wait for my weekly welfare loot.

    Legion/first half of Bfa were the greatest. Every end of dungeon chest contained a potential big upgrade. Every dungeon was run in anticipation of great loot. Fun times.

    Blizzard always listens to the wrong people. Titanforging was the greatest. Loot and M+ are super boring in Shadowlands.
    nah man thats just lazy. The game would be the same as it is now, but more people would play it even though it sucks ass. TF/WF did nothing else than hook people in and not out of fun or enjoyment.

  11. #31
    The game doesn't need more RNG. It needs more determinism.
    Few simple solutions to this:

    Remove Valor Cap

    or

    Make the 10x M+ dungeons reward from GV to be an item that upgrades a M+ to a set ilvl depending on keys level completed.
    Example M+15 in 3rd slot would reward you with an item that upgrades your selected M+ gear to lvl 252.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Dzonathan View Post
    The game doesn't need more RNG. It needs more determinism.
    Few simple solutions to this:

    Remove Valor Cap

    or

    Make the 10x M+ dungeons reward from GV to be an item that upgrades a M+ to a set ilvl depending on keys level completed.
    Example M+15 in 3rd slot would reward you with an item that upgrades your selected M+ gear to lvl 252.
    see thats a good system i would agree with, same for the raid row, kill 9 mythic bosses and get an item that ups an raid item to 252/259 and we are good
    I.O BFA Season 3


  13. #33
    wf/tf is a bad system. id rather see upgrading to 252 unlocked at a score equal to +20 in all dungeons. and maybe slightly more gear drops.

  14. #34
    I agree we need better rewards for doing M+, but don't think RNG is the answer. We need more predictable loot that we can plan and aim for. Lift the VP cap and let us upgrade up to 252. Let 259 from the last 2 bosses be the raid-only gear to reward the top %.

  15. #35
    titanforging is fine if it's capped at mythic raid ilvl, then you can sometimes get lucky and thats cool.

    it only becomes stupid when stuff can titanforge above what is obtainable regularly, then it quickly turns into a recipe for burnout or apathy.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiffums View Post
    Now if there was a chance you could get you BiS at TF ilvls out of the instance you're more than likely to help the lesser geared.
    That's the GOOD side of WF/TF.

    But there's a BAD side to it as well, namely that you might run keys until you're blue in the face and never get a good WF/TF proc; while Nooby McCasual over there gets two insane pieces in a week.

    That's why valor is superior - yes it's slow, but it's also consistent. It's the difference between having a salary, and winning the lottery; yes one may make you rich instantly, but what if it doesn't and you spend your days living on the street?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Bee76 View Post
    I agree to this!
    I dont care for the whiners who want their Bis and then stop playing. M+ was fun with WF/TF. And the great frustration....uhm great vault situation gets even worse if you play m+ and do mythic raiding. Real low raiddrops, so you have to wait for the garbage vault to pick one item out of m+ and raiding, real fun yeah....

    "Go spend hours of time for 1 item of loot!" - thx Blizz....

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    Well more and more leaving players might disagree to your point. Nearly no gear progression outside of that great vault bullsh*t doesnt feel rewarding or like a funny way to spend your time filling that vault with options. The actual system feels way more toxic, and i would assume wow lost way more players to the "cool new great vault centred" gearing system than to the wf/tf/bonusroll system.
    Oh im sorry, i guess i forgot m+ and increased difficulties of raids exist. My bad. /s

    In all seriousness, the argument is a bad one and you should feel bad. They removed titanforging because it had much more negatives than positives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiffums View Post
    You make that sound like people complained about "noobs getting their BiS at super high level" was why Blizzard removed it. People were gearing too fast with it and the only thing it negatively impacted was the almighty time played metric!
    0 data supports your theory.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    0 data supports your theory.
    well, collation isn't causation and all, but they did reduce the amount of weekly boxes and they did cut raid loot drops by 25%.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    well, collation isn't causation and all, but they did reduce the amount of weekly boxes and they did cut raid loot drops by 25%.
    Yep, because there was too much loot in the game. Already explained by the devs.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    Oh im sorry, i guess i forgot m+ and increased difficulties of raids exist. My bad. /s

    In all seriousness, the argument is a bad one and you should feel bad. They removed titanforging because it had much more negatives than positives.

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    0 data supports your theory.
    They removed TF because certain players cried about it. The system was longer in place than not. Now they tried without it and people want it back. "End of Story."

    Your whole argument of "They removed titanforging because it had much more negatives than positives." is complete nonsense. You could make the exact same argument saying they introduced TF because it had much more positives than negatives.

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