I feel optimistic about WoW

[darklogrus]

No, offense, but you are living in your own personal bubble, have you counted the reviews? I do it for you.

Its 32 critics review, 31 Positive(green), 1 yellow

31 of those reviews were done in the first 2 months of the release of shadowlands(before february 2021), basicly over half a year old by now. N_o_b_o_d_y cares about outdated reviews in a game that is constantly updated via content patches.

Compared to:

1456 user reviews!

543 positive reviews, 79 average, 834 bad.

The last positive review was on april 2021, almost half a year ago!

The last negative review was on september 16 2021, 2 days ago.

Explain what you don't undertand in simple statistics and whats positive here? Thats quite enough "Data" to prove this expansion is the worst we have ever seen and might be wows last nail in the coffin to put it mildly.

Critics talk about it too, just not on metacritic, but on their youtube channels, i am sure you can find a proper critic response to the current situation in regards to wow and blizzard, if thats important for you. So far, i found zero positivity no matter where i look, except of course, if i act its still 2020.

Critic reviews are worthless, even more so when it involves an MMO or a "payed service" game. All I see is a bunch of shilling and a bunch of reviews that come across like a 3rd grader was writing a book report on a book they really didn't bother to read.

Id love to see these critics stick with the game the full life span and report on the games progress every couple months and I guarantee their initial scores would not hold up.

[Jester Joe]

2) i always stated that, yes. so its nice and useless that you repeat what i already said and anticipating the obvious. and additionally, as i said too, you could analyze the data by your self. but i assume you are way too lazy or … for that.

Imagine having to sit down for a couple of hours to do some numbers crunching yourself, with data fresh from Blizzard's own API on top. Oh the horror

What a hot take on both of these.
If you're going to make a claim it is NEVER on the other side to prove it, it's on you who made the claim.

If you cannot back it up with evidence, then it's dismissed and rightfully so. To go "Well if you looked it up yourself..."
Why should I do your work to prove your claim?

and i disagree. your post is full of some „its like that“ statemebts. heck, you even started your post with that. and now you wanna turn this around and tell me, i am the one going „trust me bro“ ? lol. nice try.

Can you even point to a single one of these so called "it's like that" statements? Which mind you, that makes absolutely no sense and I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say by that. I point out it's hypocritical to think one side of reviews is unbias and that the other is bias, the situation being "critic reviews bad!" "user review good!".

They're both flawed in their own ways, but it's even less valuable to take user data because of kneejerk reactions causing polarized reviews to be either 0-2s or 9-10s.

At no point should SLs have a 0-2. Objectively that should be a genuinely unplayable game, as in bug ridden, crashes repeatedly, flawed beyond belief.

also stop putting words in my mouth. i not said „i have data“. i said „i analyzed the public available data and everyne can do too“. i dont know how ppl like you can be declared a mod. its a shame for that forum owners.

You literally claimed to have data and said you wouldn't release it here-

also we (some other sw developers and wow fans here) had done the same that Bellular did in his video. but way more smart and way more in deep. i will never release this analytics and their results anywhere in public, because i am sure Blizzards lawyers team would contact me very fast and i dont have the publicity bonus, as a safe shield, Bellular has.

Unless you genuinely did not know analytics is a form of data.

whatever… talking to ppls like you is not worth the time. so plz bring your „now you quckly aprupt, because you have no more arguments“ post, so i can quickly get out of this useless talk.

This is basically just admitting you have no argument if you have to constantly stooped to insults and belittling.

Back up your words next time.

No, offense, but you are living in your own personal bubble, have you counted the reviews? I do it for you.

Its 32 critics review, 31 Positive(green), 1 yellow

31 of those reviews were done in the first 2 months of the release of shadowlands(before february 2021), basicly over half a year old by now. N_o_b_o_d_y cares about outdated reviews in a game that is constantly updated via content patches.

Compared to:

1456 user reviews!

543 positive reviews, 79 average, 834 bad.

The last positive review was on april 2021, almost half a year ago!

The last negative review was on september 16 2021, 2 days ago.

Explain what you don't undertand in simple statistics and whats positive here? Thats quite enough "Data" to prove this expansion is the worst we have ever seen and might be wows last nail in the coffin to put it mildly.

Critics talk about it too, just not on metacritic, but on their youtube channels, i am sure you can find a proper critic response to the current situation in regards to wow and blizzard, if thats important for you. So far, i found zero positivity no matter where i look, except of course, if i act its still 2020.

I mean, I don't know how you're asking if I "live in my own bubble" when I also never claimed the critic reviews were good?

[Kalocy Jim]

There's nothing to be optimistic about. The game will continue to decline until eventually Blizzard will no longer be willing to deliver quality expansion packs and instead focus on simply selling as many micro transactions as possible, eventually they'll shut down the servers.

I'm optimistic because they are making good changes in 9.1.5, and it makes me positive for the future.

Even though some people have issues with the current direction of the game, im pretty certain it isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. They reported stronger user metrics and engagement in their last investor call, so I think they are doing something right.

I guess I like to be positive rather than negative. 9.2 should be a very interesting patch given the changes coming in 9.1.5. Only one can speculate what 9.2 content will be.

My guess is:

• New Raid (pretty much a no brainer)
• New Zone(s) - I think they might do a 2 zone thing here. Lots of possible portal locations on the compass in Oribos to still explore
• New Campaign storyline - This is where all the covenant campaigns align and everyone gets the same campaign for the rest of the expansion since all the Covenants are united
• New game system - This one is 100% pure speculation, and may or may not be likely, but they like to do this in their expansions. We saw it in Legion with the Argus ship, and getting those ship abilities to use on the ground.
• New toys, pets, mounts - almost goes without saying we will get more of this stuff.
• New Dungeon(s) - This one im less confident in for the 9.2 patch, but im thinking Blizzard will surprise us with dungeons similar to the 3 added at the end of WOTLK. Somehow they will be connected and have a small storyline associated with them like the Wrath ones.

Combined with the positive game system changes, it should make the content in 9.2 even that much more enjoyable.

[Paperfox]

Its 32 critics review, 31 Positive(green), 1 yellow

31 of those reviews were done in the first 2 months of the release of shadowlands(before february 2021), basicly over half a year old by now. N_o_b_o_d_y cares about outdated reviews in a game that is constantly updated via content patches.

Compared to:

1456 user reviews!

543 positive reviews, 79 average, 834 bad.

The last positive review was on april 2021, almost half a year ago!

The last negative review was on september 16 2021, 2 days ago.

snip.

This is quite an interesting way of looking at it, i like it. Whenever a jury trial is in the news the thing I think is important is how long the jury deliberated. As that, to me, is an indication of how strong or weak the evidence is.

I mean 57% of reviews are bad, whereas only 5.5% are good is quite telling.

[Kalocy Jim]

No, they're not. And it's extremely simple to see why.



That's just flat out being bias. Review bombing is a thing. Kneejerk reviews out of hate happen.
Yet to dismiss people's reviews on some claim that cannot be actually backed up or proven (That Blizzard paid for the review), while fully accepting the other flawed side as "proof" isn't a way to prove anything.

Hell, even reading through most of the "negative" reviews on metacritic, it's pretty easy to spot that it's people who are far off the mark about the game in general.

This is 100% correct.

People can't just assume a product is bad because it gets bad reviews. The agenda of the people doing the reviews comes into question. The only thing is to try the product or watch the show / movie and judge for yourself. Early on in my life, there were a lot of movies I didn't watch because of bad reviews, but when I finally decided to watch some of them, I was surprised that some of them I thought were really good.

[Toybox]

9.1.5 seems like a desperate cry from Blizzard to keep its players by giving them what many have been asking for for years, but I'm not sure that'll carry over to 10.0, so I can't say I'm hugely optimistic going forward. How much have they REALLY learned from these past few years? They can't have learned much from the shortcomings of Legion & BfA, otherwise Shadowlands wouldn't have happened.

Also, I don't like the idea of giving them any credit for finally changing things people have been complaining about for several years just because the sub numbers are plummeting - They should've listened years ago. Better late than never, sure, but it's so late & there's been so much damage done that it might as well have been never.

[Kalocy Jim]

9.1.5 seems like a desperate cry from Blizzard to keep its players by giving them what many have been asking for for years, but I'm not sure that'll carry over to 10.0, so I can't say I'm hugely optimistic going forward. How much have they REALLY learned from these past few years? They can't have learned much from the shortcomings of Legion & BfA, otherwise Shadowlands wouldn't have happened.

Also, I don't like the idea of giving them any credit for finally changing things people have been complaining about for several years just because the sub numbers are plummeting - They should've listened years ago. Better late than never, sure, but it's so late & there's been so much damage done that it might as well have been never.

What have they been asking for for years according to you? That they are giving them in 9.1.5?

Because the perceived problems people are talking about are specific to this expansion. So I don't have any idea where you get they are "finally giving players what they want after asking for them for years".

[KSM899]

I like wow as it is .. the only thing that I don't like is story telling ..

[ohwell]

And just because a group is vocal does not make them a minority.

Except they were. The numbers of the complaints were far fewer than the number of people playing the beta. Just because you SEE those complaints because they're being blasted out by people with influence(streamers etc) doesn't make them suddenly not a minority.

[Toybox]

What have they been asking for for years according to you? That they are giving them in 9.1.5?

Because the perceived problems people are talking about are specific to this expansion. So I don't have any idea where you get they are "finally giving players what they want after asking for them for years".

Reduced grind & system clutter mostly. Being able to swap freely without any penalty (like the stupid Azerite costs/Conduit energy/Covenants), being able to play alts without having to replay the campaign/regain reputation, etc. They've lessened the chore & allowed people to get to the good bits faster, which is fine and all, but it should've happened much earlier.

[arkanon]

Except they were. The numbers of the complaints were far fewer than the number of people playing the beta. Just because you SEE those complaints because they're being blasted out by people with influence(streamers etc) doesn't make them suddenly not a minority.

And just because those people are the only ones VOICING their concern in no way indicates others are not unhappy about the same things.

[Kalocy Jim]

Except they were. The numbers of the complaints were far fewer than the number of people playing the beta. Just because you SEE those complaints because they're being blasted out by people with influence(streamers etc) doesn't make them suddenly not a minority.

Very good point.

They somehow don't think that streamer influence is real. Its sad that these streamers influence so many people, but even though they influence a large amount of people, its still a minority compared to the amount of total players playing the game.

- - - Updated - - -

Reduced grind & system clutter mostly. Being able to swap freely without any penalty (like the stupid Azerite costs/Conduit energy/Covenants), being able to play alts without having to replay the campaign/regain reputation, etc. They've lessened the chore & allowed people to get to the good bits faster, which is fine and all, but it should've happened much earlier.

But they make the expansions more and more alt friendly as the expansion goes on in every expansion. Its not just now happening, its happened before, and we have seen them ease up on restrictions as the expansions go on.

[Toybox]

But they make the expansions more and more alt friendly as the expansion goes on in every expansion. Its not just now happening, its happened before, and we have seen them ease up on restrictions as the expansions go on.

Which is why I'm not hugely optimistic about 10.0. I don't want an expansion that begins to respect my time when x.3.5 hits, or even x.1.5 like is seemingly the case with Shadowlands - I don't want another expansion that is built around single-player busywork with no shared progression across my characters so I need to do a list of menial tasks across any alt I'd like to play at a remotely decent level.

If 10.0 launches with (optional) cross-character campaign progression & no system-soup I'll be excited, but until then, I'll be seeing 9.1.5 as just an early player-friendly patch, while expecting Blizzard to revert to type for 10.0.

(The new co-leader does give me a slither of hope, however...)

[Kalocy Jim]

Which is why I'm not hugely optimistic about 10.0. I don't want an expansion that begins to respect my time when x.3.5 hits, or even x.1.5 like is seemingly the case with Shadowlands - I don't want another expansion that is built around single-player busywork with no shared progression across my characters so I need to do a list of menial tasks across any alt I'd like to play at a remotely decent level.

If 10.0 launches with (optional) cross-character campaign progression & no system-soup I'll be excited, but until then, I'll be seeing 9.1.5 as just an early player-friendly patch, while expecting Blizzard to revert to type for 10.0.

(The new co-leader does give me a slither of hope, however...)

Hmm, I can't say that I agree with you, but I understand your point.

I didn't think the systems were too restrictive or disrespectful of my time in the least. I've had a lot of fun in this expansion so far.

Do you play like a ton of alts? Just so I can get some context to why you feel that way. When you say "busywork" what do you mean? Are you wanting the rewards with much less investment..? Like, do you feel a bit entitled to the rewards because you pay your subscription fee? Not sure what you really want without you giving some specific examples of the type of "respecting your time" you'd like to see.

[Toybox]

Hmm, I can't say that I agree with you, but I understand your point.

I didn't think the systems were too restrictive or disrespectful of my time in the least. I've had a lot of fun in this expansion so far.

Do you play like a ton of alts? Just so I can get some context to why you feel that way. When you say "busywork" what do you mean? Are you wanting the rewards with much less investment..? Like, do you feel a bit entitled to the rewards because you pay your subscription fee? Not sure what you really want without you giving some specific examples of the type of "respecting your time" you'd like to see.

I'm a (now formerly) decent level PvE guy. I raided top 250 in Legion & rejoined my old guild at the tail end of BfA, & raided with them right until the disband, which came a month or so after we got our Sire CE. I was contemplating finding a new guild for 9.1, but decided to take a break instead.

I like to play alts, but it's not been a case of just leveling up & getting gear anymore. There's so much nonsense in the way, & none of it is remotely challenging or engaging; It's low effort tedium that doesn't qualify as anything remotely RPG-like, and given that a lot of it is single-player, it goes against what WoW truly excels at - which is, in my opinion, being a damn good social MMO.

I don't want to have to re-do campaigns & grind out rep for things like essences for my alts to be on a similar level to my main, as that sort of stuff just isn't what WoW is good at. Anything that keeps me away from just having fun doing the content I enjoy (dungeons/raids/some PvP) without being a huge hinderance to those around me just isn't good.

All I want from 10.0 is a 36 well-designed & fun playing specs & cross-account progression like we're getting in 9.1.5. If the classes aren't good enough to stand on their own without borrowed power, then the class designers have failed.

[Paperfox]

This is 100% correct.

People can't just assume a product is bad because it gets bad reviews. The agenda of the people doing the reviews comes into question. The only thing is to try the product or watch the show / movie and judge for yourself. Early on in my life, there were a lot of movies I didn't watch because of bad reviews, but when I finally decided to watch some of them, I was surprised that some of them I thought were really good.

So neither can you assume a product is good because it gets good reviews.

Got it.

Here's my review of SL: I recently cancelled my sub.

[Kalocy Jim]

I'm a (now formerly) decent level PvE guy. I raided top 250 in Legion & rejoined my old guild at the tail end of BfA, & raided with them right until the disband, which came a month or so after we got our Sire CE. I was contemplating finding a new guild for 9.1, but decided to take a break instead.

I like to play alts, but it's not been a case of just leveling up & getting gear anymore. There's so much nonsense in the way, & none of it is remotely challenging or engaging; It's low effort tedium that doesn't qualify as anything remotely RPG-like, and given that a lot of it is single-player, it goes against what WoW truly excels at - which is, in my opinion, being a damn good social MMO.

I don't want to have to re-do campaigns & grind out rep for things like essences for my alts to be on a similar level to my main, as that sort of stuff just isn't what WoW is good at. Anything that keeps me away from just having fun doing the content I enjoy (dungeons/raids/some PvP) without being a huge hinderance to those around me just isn't good.

All I want from 10.0 is a 36 well-designed & fun playing specs & cross-account progression like we're getting in 9.1.5. If the classes aren't good enough to stand on their own without borrowed power, then the class designers have failed.

Makes sense. I suppose I agree with you on some level now that I understand the context. Maybe some of those systems can be eased up from the beginning of the next expansion. I guess I don't play a whole lot of alts that I really noticed much of the grind. I've always expected grind since its an MMO, but on my main, ive gotten basically everything I could want since i spend the majority of my time on that character.

At least 9.1.5 eases up earlier, and come 9.2 you can have a bunch of alts ready for the new raid content.

- - - Updated - - -

So neither can you assume a product is good because it gets good reviews.

Got it.

Here's my review of SL: I recently cancelled my sub.

Gotcha. You're 1 sub.

[Empower]

Except they were. The numbers of the complaints were far fewer than the number of people playing the beta. Just because you SEE those complaints because they're being blasted out by people with influence(streamers etc) doesn't make them suddenly not a minority.

Beta wasn't really that busy in shadowlands comparatively and people had thousands of replies posts warning them of how shit they systems were...

Hell they pushed back the expansion because even for the " let's just guess the values of corruption" blizzard the numbers where far to fucked.

[Echo of Soul]

Gotcha. You're 1 sub.

He's not alone Jay. According to Blizzard's own api millions of characters have stopped logging in during 2021.

[Toybox]

Makes sense. I suppose I agree with you on some level now that I understand the context. Maybe some of those systems can be eased up from the beginning of the next expansion. I guess I don't play a whole lot of alts that I really noticed much of the grind. I've always expected grind since its an MMO, but on my main, ive gotten basically everything I could want since i spend the majority of my time on that character.

At least 9.1.5 eases up earlier, and come 9.2 you can have a bunch of alts ready for the new raid content.

Aye that's something positive for Shadowlands at least, but for me to be positive about 10.0, I really hope they start off with that sort of player friendly system from the beginning. I'll be excited if they do, but I don't really expect it.