Should raid difficulties and LFR be retuned and consolidated?

[Niwes]

ma man i work with custom alps and sims since 2014 dont try that bs on me the diff btwn frost and unhonly is 600 dps on lvl 5, my frost shards are lvl2 so its even more than that, and yes my alt only has the helmet with the bonus on it

why you get so agressive? i was just asking, cheesus christ. yeah, ok, its fine. obviously this can happen. just didnt know that.

sometimes i get that feeling everyone here is 12 years old, regardless how old.

omfg…

[Lunareste]

I think LFR needs to be removed personally. It creates a lot of problems with the game such as removing the need for socialization and guilds, providing free gear for no effort (people intentionally soaking gear and not contributing), and ilvl inflation. They keep squishing the game because they have to keep raising the rewards and LFR is a part of that.

[Elias1337]

It is too many, but pruning any is going to have a negative effect on the game.

You can't un-pour the molasses. You can't re-lamp the genie. Making these modes made them the mode for someone playing the game - Taking them away removes yet another person's reason to play. And for what? What is gained by removing any difficulty?

You will get healthier game thats what is gained. And removing lfe do not remove reasons to play. It actualy add reasons to play more.

[Advent]

You will get healthier game thats what is gained. And removing lfe do not remove reasons to play. It actualy add reasons to play more.

So the person whose only recourse is LFR stops playing raids altogether. What does that person (Or group of people) do now? They're not going to go do normal en masse, so that's out. Are they supposed to now be content with watching youtube videos and rep grinding?

[Deadite]

So the person whose only recourse is LFR stops playing raids altogether. What does that person (Or group of people) do now? They're not going to go do normal en masse, so that's out. Are they supposed to now be content with watching youtube videos and rep grinding?

They don't care what they do. They want them to leave the game. They must think the game can survive with the tiny percentage of people that do organized raiding.

[Lochton]

Having a "story mode" is needed. LFR isn't needed. There are multiple better ways to do it.

LFR IS story mode, everyone can complete it if they want to. At the current mindset, not everyone can complete Heroic even if they want to, for there are higher demands, even with Normal groups has more demands than LFR. And sadly, there ARE most likely more people using LFR than Mythic I would believe.

[Usernameforforums]

They moved away from that for a damned good reason: Friends and Family guilds either did LFR, or didn't raid. And that sucked for those guilds.

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The advance in ilvl from one difficulty mode to the same difficulty mode in the next tier can be independent of how many difficulty modes there are, so I don't understand this argument.

Old lfr was along the lines of normal now in terms of difficulty so nothing has really changed. Well besides stacks of determination doesn’t apply to normal but thats about it

[RemasteredClassic]

I would make LFR playable with 4 NPC’s as a 5 man or with 4 other players. LFR focuses on quests that tell a story...etc.
Normal becomes queueable (i.e the new LFR but retains its current tuning and difficulty). Heroic is the new normal and mythic stays as is.

All previous expansion raids become part of the new 5 man LFR mode.

[Local Skinwalker]

I vote we remove raids completely.

Or make them obligatory 40 man groups, like the good old days. If you can't take 1 difficulty properly, you don't need 4!

There are literally dozens of bad takes you can find on this website any given day, this is one of them

[CalamityHeart]

Gonna just quote myself from a year ago on a similar topic, since it seems largely relevant given the direction of the thread, and this is something that my mind really hasn't changed on all that much:

Some of the recent replies in this thread make me think that the people who think they hate LFR don't actually hate LFR. They just hate other players who use it. It's a community issue. And their solution to the "problem" of LFR is to make it less social, and the loot you get from it even more free.

Say what you will about the fraction of the playerbase who uses it, but LFR is as close to true raiding as queued content can get, and any solution like this "Cinematic Mode" or "Solo Mode" shit that dilutes that and brings players who have to use LFR further away from the true raiding experience, is not an ideal solution. That doesn't fix LFR. That destroys a part of the raiding community.

People see bad players and want them to suffer, purely for the sake of them being bad. People see that a large number of these bad players flock to LFR, and obviously they would, because LFR is amazingly accessible, and any system that's amazingly accessible is going to attract a larger number of players below the average skill level. And so to these toxic people, the solution is clear: destroy LFR, or find some sneaky way to suggest destroying it without actually suggesting to destroy it, in order to not appear toxic.

The real solution is that there is no solution. You can't cut out the bottom of the barrel, and in terms of raiding, LFR is as bottom as it gets. But that's not a bad thing, because LFR made raiding a much bigger barrel than it used to be. Any problem you currently have with LFR's community can be solved by just rising above them. I think I said this in a previous post, but gutting LFR isn't going to make people get better and move up. You get better and move up. Or find some way to move away. But stop worrying about LFR. It's a toxic waste of your time.

[Accendor]

You should read what you wrote again, but slowly.

I did and now?

[Runicblood]

There are literally dozens of bad takes you can find on this website any given day, this is one of them

I think my suggesstion fixes like 120% of the issues brought up in every-single-thread on this site.

[Beefhammer]

I've seen some suggestions from people that the 3 raid difficulties and the 1 tourist mode that we have right now is too many.

Do you agree? If so, how should Blizzard go about retuning and possibly reducing the amount of difficulties in the game?

Yeah, LFR, Normal, and Heroic. Remove Mythic.

[Twdft]

I think LFR needs to be removed personally. It creates a lot of problems with the game such as removing the need for socialization and guilds, providing free gear for no effort (people intentionally soaking gear and not contributing), and ilvl inflation. They keep squishing the game because they have to keep raising the rewards and LFR is a part of that.

Nope. If you think all those people who only do lfr would come knocking on your guilds door to do normal/heroic you're greatly mistaken. They could have done it before but didn't. They got lfr. If lfr is gone they will not raid anymore, at all.

[MiiiMiii]

I don't like LFR but the truth is that the WoW community in Classic/TBC/WotLK had quite simple and low expectations to join a guild. I, for one, never looked up how to beat any boss while raiding until Cataclysm, and noone really expected me to (raid leader would explain fights in voice). Today you have parses and expectations to do M+ farm your Artifact Weapon etc. making the barrier to start raiding way higher than it used to be. Today leaders expect you to know every fight before the raid is even released.

I, personally, refuse to farm M+ and it just sucks being outgeared all raid progression. So to me the choices are:
1. I start fully enchant my gear, farm M+, make sure my Renown stuff is perfect and I get a raiding guild with a schedule
2. I just do LFR when I feel like it.

I don't think I will ever choose 1 this expansion.

[Ticj]

You did not successfully read for comprehension.

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Experience in the past has shown that autoqueue content has to be extremely easy (and lacking in mechanics where an individual can troll by wiping the raid). LFR in MoP (hello, Garalon!) makes this clear.

No, you missed my entire point. It's impossible to have ilvl gaps independent of the amount of difficulties you have without changing the entire gear system.

Just because you state something and bold it, does not make it true lol

[Progenitor Aquarius]

LFR is sometimes way more difficult than mythic. I seriously couldn't kill Sylvanas on LFR, I had to go heroic mode to finally do it. Then I was so surprised how easy that was.

[Sapphire2712]

I don't think there is a problem with having multiple difficulties. But they should tune LFR close to normal difficulty. Just make it normal but queueable. Things shouldn't just fall over.

[nekobaka]

LFR, Heroic, Mythic. Remove Normal.

LFR justifies the resources put into raid content, and that's that.

Sigh. This false fact keeps getting spread. It justifies larger raids. AKA more resources than otherwise would have been spent.
https://twitter.com/WatcherDev/statu...03230542442496

Q:I have read posts that claim you have said LFR saved raiding from bean counters and the chopping block. I cant find this. T/F?
A:There are no "bean counters" -- just us prioritizing. Can justify larger raids, more art, when it's not just a few seeing it.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Sigh. This false fact keeps getting spread. It justifies larger raids. AKA more resources than otherwise would have been spent.
https://twitter.com/WatcherDev/statu...03230542442496

Q:I have read posts that claim you have said LFR saved raiding from bean counters and the chopping block. I cant find this. T/F?
A:There are no "bean counters" -- just us prioritizing. Can justify larger raids, more art, when it's not just a few seeing it.

... How is that in any way different? They can justify resources put into raid content thanks to LFR's existence, period.

From Ion himself:

"The existence of LFR justifies the creation of more raid content for casual and hardcore players alike."

https://www.engadget.com/2012-08-23-...cezDaP-Cf5BIKr

Like, hello...? No "false fact" to be found in my original post.