Fate of Afghanistan, Taliban resurgence

[Pann]

Kabul drone strike was a 'mistake'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Eg_zo4uVus

[uuuhname]

7 children murdered but hey, brown people in Afghanistan so shrug the shoulders and move on to the next "mistake".

[Draco-Onis]

7 children murdered but hey, brown people in Afghanistan so shrug the shoulders and move on to the next "mistake".

We killed and maimed more civilians per year than the Taliban for a lot of the occupation so it seems we ended it with a sad reminder of that.

[uuuhname]

We killed and maimed more civilians per year than the Taliban for a lot of the occupation so it seems we ended it with a sad reminder of that.

if only it were, we still have aircraft carriers and drone bases in the region. drone strikes are going to continue there and in Pakistan. China possibly moving in is going to be an issue with those assists in the not to far future.

[Draco-Onis]

if only it were, we still have aircraft carriers and drone bases in the region. drone strikes are going to continue there and in Pakistan. China possibly moving in is going to be an issue with those assists in the not to far future.

If I were the Taliban I would go as far as letting the Chinese establish a base in Afghanistan just to make drone strikes problematic for the US.

[uuuhname]

If I were the Taliban I would go as far as letting the Chinese establish a base in Afghanistan just to make drone strikes problematic for the US.

It's probably only a matter of time before China approaches the Taliban for resources like rare metals and other minerals so that alone is going to strain things. but yes from the Taliban's preceptive it would be the fastest way to at least give their regime money and access to a world super power. they don't even need China to officially recognize them to really solidify their control. super shitty situation but I see it as an inevitability considering China is emerging which is more subtle about seeing their geopolitical goals through and the West nor any foreign power can hope to make the region anything but a fiery quagmire.

[Ryom]

Kabul drone strike was a 'mistake'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Eg_zo4uVus

Just saw this on the news. Sickening.
ISIS terrorists attack the Kabul airport and kill over a hundred civilians, and in retaliation the US kill... another 10 civilians.

This is a prime example of everything wrong with this war, drone strikes, and the American approach to this type of conflicts in general.

I don't suppose there will be any real consequences for this either. The US military established a system where any person can just be declared a terrorist after a "thorough investigation" of like eight hours of aerial surveillance and consequently be remotely executed (along with their family). No justice, no responsibility, just an abhorrent disregard for human life and rights.

[PhaelixWW]

Actually it is even worse. In that Kabul attack, according to witnesses, many a lot of casualties were caused by US military shooting in panic left and right, not by explosion.

Nah, there's literally been no evidence produced to back up this wild claim. At this point, you're just spreading conspiracy theories.

US is the biggest terrorist organization in the world right now.

Well, I guess you have a bias.

[Specialka]

Actually it is even worse. In that Kabul attack, according to witnesses, many a lot of casualties were caused by US military shooting in panic left and right, not by explosion.

US is the biggest terrorist organization in the world right now.

And there is absolutely not a genocide ongoing in China /s

[Breccia]

Nah, there's literally been no evidence produced to back up this wild claim. At this point, you're just spreading conspiracy theories.

Before we get into the "the fact that there's no evidence is itself evidence" counter, I do have a question. The reports he's referring to all say that a BBC reporter talked to witnesses. Where's the BBC article? If it was a BBC reporter with credible information, I would have assumed it got published by the BBC. I can't seem to find a BBC article on the topic. Or Reuters. Or FOX News, even. And, this is the interesting part, some of the reports such as this one go on to say the whole thing was a false flag.

The Pentagon said there was firing from "ISIS gunmen" after the bombing, and called the gunfire at the airport gate "a complex attack." However, there were doubts about how the ISIS-K fighters could launch such a massive attack at the heavily-fortified airport area and why no dead bodies of the fighters have been found, as well as about the bullets' suspicious trajectories.

So I'm going to wait until the Afghan government issues...oh, right, they don't have one. Well, the Taliban then. Or, the UN? They still investigate war crimes, right?

Add to that, the US just admitted they bombed a house full of civilians -- yeah, ouch -- but has said nothing about panic fire. You'd think it's be easier to say "our soldiers were under attack during the bombing that killed 13 of them, and returned fire" than "we didn't confirm a target and incinerated a suburb with no terrorists in it".

I'm not saying the story is impossible, I am saying we have "witnesses say" from a bunch of sources I don't recognize but not the BBC who supposedly cracked it in the first place, and quite frankly soldiers losing their cool and firing into a crowd isn't a terrorist act anyhow so it seems like a nonsequitor, as one might do if they wanted to paint a disingenuous picture. I mean, "US bombs suburb" would be a lot closer to "the US is a terrorist" to me. Why pick the lesser option that hasn't been confirmed, when the worse action that has been is low-hanging fruit?

[Breccia]

However now I cannot find it or any links to it.

Hmm. How quaint. Well do let us know when you do find it.

[Secret Arcade]

Hmm. How quaint. Well do let us know when you do find it.

Pretty sure it's this BBC video that originated the story, or at least this reporter.

Around the 46 second mark and again at ~1:35

There's also this

[PACOX]

Kabul drone strike was a 'mistake'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Eg_zo4uVus

Mistakes happen but this is how you make terrorists and get locals not willing to cooperate with you. The US equivalent is a PD coming into a neighorhood asking for help with the drug problem, meanwhile officers are hassling people for petty crimes, only respond to calls when they feel like it, and general misconduct is rampant. '

We only hear about a mistake and forget about it they next news cycle. They remember ever civilian life taken in crossfire, or being somewhere they had the right to be but someone made the wrong call. They remember their neighbor who became a interpretor but never made it home and now their kids don't have a parent, meanwhile their 'saviors' just leave. Releasing statements like "we had to make a split decision call right then and there" when the photos released are of some dude just walking to his car, a man driving home, some people are a wedding, only adds pain and frustration to those people.

Yeah it was a mistake but the US has a long history of mistakes in situations where US involvment was questionable from the start.

Sometimes the best apology is to just say, "hey I fucked up really bad and I'm sorry" without trying to give some excuse.

[Shalcker]

Hmm. How quaint. Well do let us know when you do find it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/28/w...ke-isis-k.html
Pentagon officials publicly acknowledged the possibility that some of the people killed in the aftermath of the suicide bombing at Kabul airport may have died in gunfire coming from American service members after the suicide bomber detonated himself.

And judging by info given above it's ~20 from bomb blasts 80+ from gunfire.

[Breccia]

Pretty sure it's this BBC video that originated the story, or at least this reporter.

Around the 46 second mark and again at ~1:35

Okay, cool. Exactly what I was asking for, thanks for digging it out. Buried in a figurative page six story with an almost unrelated headline and not, for example, "Americans fired on unarmed civilians", which is why I didn't find it when I went looking. I think this counts as evidence even the BBC knew that a couple of people who said they were there weren't enough to run "Americans fired on unarmed civilians" as the front page story. And nothing at all like the claims we've seen on this thread, incluing "most" were killed by Americans, and more recently, "a lot" were killed by Americans.

Now, perhaps the BBC -- or anyone else reputable for that matter -- aren't running that story because they're still doing the research and getting official confirmation. Perhaps in a week or month we'll see a medical report or get an American serviceman on the record or something other than someone who claims he was in a crowded, chaotic situation and reciting the plot of the movie JFK. But I'm sure you'll understand why, for now at least, when even the reporter who found witnesses saying "Americans fired on unarmed civilians" treats that information with skepticism, and no other major/reputable organization is running with it -- seriously FOX News would take any chance they could find to sling accusations at Biden and they haven't touched this -- that I'm saying "I have my doubts, I'll wait for facts to come forward" before taking that report as strong enough evidence to say "America is the worst terrorist in the world".

I think you'll also forgive me for not taking a YouTube channel called "Kabul Lovers" as a serious, trustworthy news source in this context.

I'm sure we can come back and revisit this topic when the UN investigation is announced, or the BBC investigation -- or any other major international news organization, Al Jazeera leaps to mind -- is published. Until then, one or two Afghani citizens saying they saw Americans fire on civilians doesn't seem like enough to say "well America is the worst terrorist organization there is" Again, especially when "Americans bombed a surburb and killed seven children" is right there on the table, officially confirmed by US.

For the record, I would not in any way be surprised if Americans did, in fact, fire at ISIS gunmen as the Pentagon claimed, an in that firefight Afghani civilians were shot or even killed. It would not exactly be the first time a criminal used a hostage, or that ISIS used civilians as human shields, after all. But with the evidence we have, or more precisely the lack of evidence we have, claims that "a lot" of Afghani civilians at the time were shot by American troops and killed fall short, and calling it a terrorist act are undefendable.

Shooting back does not make you a terrorist. Self-defense is not a crime, either. It's actually one of the few times ending the life of another human being is globally acceptable.

Thinking you're shooting back when you're not isn't a terrorist act either, by the way, but it does fall under "dumb idea that gets your ass court-martialed and might be criminal and 100% should not have happened". It can be an inexcusable crime that should never have happened, and still not be a terrorist act, because it was no more designed to be threats or force or violence to change political viewpoints than knocking over a gas station for $25 and Funions.

And US soldiers panic firing into a crowd is "holy shit" levels of inexcusable...if it happened. But right now, the most credible reports are one guy who says he saw it, and one secondhand report. Even taking those reports as 100% factual and honest, that's nowhere near enough to defend "most" or "a lot", and it's nowhere near enough to say "the US is the worst terrorist".

Thanks for finding the video. I'm sure we'll revisit this topic when more information comes forth. Right now, there just really isn't that much.

[Secret Arcade]

-snip-

Yeah, I fully agree. Also, all the reporting I could find on this topic is using these videos as their source and, maybe not very surprisingly, seems to be done by websites in fun places like China and Iran. Except for the BBC, I can't find any serious news agency having either their own coverage or mentioning the BBC report.

[Breccia]

Except for the BBC, I can't find any serious news agency having either their own coverage or mentioning the BBC report.

Which again, it could be because they're investigating and aren't done. We'll have this discussion again when they report their findings. Right now, the available public evidence isn't a hill to die on.

[ati87]

If you mean their country it is false; France, for one, explicitly refused to recognize them and most governments withheld recognition.

Ah well, if some random country doesn't recognize the Taliban has the current rulers then that must mean they will just relinquish the control and give back to the previous government right?

[PhaelixWW]

And judging by info given above it's ~20 from bomb blasts 80+ from gunfire.

Uh, no. The only "judging" being done is with your imagination.

Please try and find a source to back up your blatant fabrication.

[Easo]

Girls excluded as Afghan secondary schools reopen

And "students" are back to their barbarian ways, of course.

P.S.
It is almost as if some people here think USA specifically attacks children and like doing that... You know, they just wanted to do it one last time. /s
Forum warriors are always funny.

so let's make those ongoing wars even worse, great idea, why didn't I think of that. why should we let the Taliban have all the fun when we can be the one's blowing up entire families with a drone strike.

P.S. there was a 9/11 happening every week in that country for over a decade and none of you cared, because again as long as it's dead brown people then that's just the cost of doing business.

P.S.S. this isn't your mind palace where the US is E V E R going to go to war with China.

You don't have crystal ball, you cannot know what will be worse. You can guess, even reasonably, but it still will be just a guess.
You also still have avoided answering about what, exactly, USA should have done after Taliban refused to give up AQ. Good talking with you and goodbye.
P.S.
Never say never.

Taiwan and the mainland are both still in a civil war, I have no idea how you think that is even comparable to the US invading whatever country they want.
Which, should be noted, is never done out of goodwill but for profit and/or power.

They de facto are not at war and have not been for decades. Ah, you know what? We can use the same argument in Middle East too... xD

That is not exactly a reason to invade, but its what Americans and those on their side do love.


Is it now a good idea to also liberate Guantanamo bay? Fair is fair right?

Smartassing instead of providing some reasonable alternative to just ignoring AQ and their Taliban cower. Got it.
Also, nice stereotyping about Americans, good one, brah.

7 children murdered but hey, brown people in Afghanistan so shrug the shoulders and move on to the next "mistake".

Attempting to demonize military for masking mistakes (and yes, that was a mistake, people make mistakes) is a fool's errand. Gonna remind that few days before someone blew up 200 people at the airport.