Fate of Afghanistan, Taliban resurgence

[Shalcker]

Uh, no. The only "judging" being done is with your imagination.

Please try and find a source to back up your blatant fabrication.

"Information given above", as in

There's also this

Which is apparently interview with a guy who examined corpses in Kabul morgue.

Shots from above only, not below; 20 from bombs, the rest from bullets.

[uuuhname]

Attempting to demonize military for masking mistakes (and yes, that was a mistake, people make mistakes) is a fool's errand. Gonna remind that few days before someone blew up 200 people at the airport.

so much for "goodbye". and if you want an answer to the Taliban covering for AQ, I don't care. 9/11 happened and that was a tragedy, but it in no way justifies the 20+ years of the US losing it's collective mind over it. I don't care if you disagree with that, it didn't even happen to you.

this is more of your inability to know the difference between criticism and hatred. this isn't the 2000's where your appeals to emotions have even a fraction of the weight they did then, time and facts make your crying over it look pathetic. even more so considering YOU'RE NOT EVEN AN AMERICAN. sit down, shut up.

[PhaelixWW]

Which is apparently interview with a guy who examined corpses in Kabul morgue.

Actually....

Any evidence of actual substance, not just from some random claim on Twitter?

[Shadowferal]

As expected... dismiss anything that isn't spoon fed to you by CNN. .

And being spoon fed by random internet person is so much better.

[PhaelixWW]

As expected... dismiss anything that isn't spoon fed to you by CNN.

Lulz, no. You're choosing to believe an unsubstantiated account based on the word of a couple of guys interviewed in an area in which there are a decent number of people who have little reason to view the US in a good light.

That's not "evidence".

Multiple witnesses claiming same thing: don't count because they are not interviewed by western media. Even one in BBC interview doesn't count.

If I were in the habit of believing that something is true based solely on the word of a couple of street interviews, I'd be in full QAnon territory right now.

Guy working in morgue telling what he saw doesn't count.

Guy who claims to work in the morgue (and also claims to be in the military) being interviewed in the street by some guy with a Twitter account... None of that screams "inherently credible" enough to believe his wild claim without corroboration.

Probably because he's not from US military, so he can't tell difference between civilian and terrorist, also can't distinguish between people being killed by bullets and people receiving dose of freedom.

Yeah, now you're just full-on nation-bashing.

The point is, you have more in common with those who believe in conspiracy theories simply because you want to, rather than based on anything resembling actual evidence.

[Breccia]

Actually

That was already posted. Like, exactly the same thing. And I stand behind my decision to not treat "Kabul Lovers" as a trustworthy source of information.

Also the "the US won't investigate and they're covering up all the info which is why nobody will report it" sounds more and more like "REEE! REEEEEEEE!" every time I hear it. Lack of evidence, is not evidence. And you're not doing yourself any favors with "spoonfed from CNN" when you are going with the secondhand info from one or two randos and Some Guy On Twitter.

Also also, if the US is doing a big conspiracy cover-up...why is the BBC interview still up? Why didn't they kill the witnesses? Conspiracy theories tend to fall apart when you ask even the most basic questions. You have next to nothing, just like the magical 20/80 split Slacker created out of thin air.

Come back when there's something more solid than a couple of people talking to cameras. We can have that discussion again then. Conspiracy theories are not welcome on this forum.

[JohnBrown1917]

They de facto are not at war and have not been for decades. Ah, you know what? We can use the same argument in Middle East too... xD

Taiwan still has claims to all of mainland china + parts of Mongolia, but i'm good with not interfering in any Middle eastern wars.

Smartassing instead of providing some reasonable alternative to just ignoring AQ and their Taliban cower. Got it.
Also, nice stereotyping about Americans, good one, brah.
.

Doing nothing is far better than going out and bombing people for your own self-interest, yeah.


Its hardly a stereotype, act like a war monger get treated like one. Too anybody who is not naive(or profits from it) it is very obvious every single US war since WWII has been purely fought to project power and/or to profit its military industrial complex.

[Corvus]

Taiwan still has claims to all of mainland china + parts of Mongolia.

Fun fact, Taiwan isn't interested in those claims. They are a legacy of the civil war that they can't get rid of because China has said that getting rid of them is the same as declaring independence and will provoke an armed response.

[Gaidax]

Mistakes happen but this is how you make terrorists and get locals not willing to cooperate with you. The US equivalent is a PD coming into a neighorhood asking for help with the drug problem, meanwhile officers are hassling people for petty crimes, only respond to calls when they feel like it, and general misconduct is rampant. '

We only hear about a mistake and forget about it they next news cycle. They remember ever civilian life taken in crossfire, or being somewhere they had the right to be but someone made the wrong call. They remember their neighbor who became a interpretor but never made it home and now their kids don't have a parent, meanwhile their 'saviors' just leave. Releasing statements like "we had to make a split decision call right then and there" when the photos released are of some dude just walking to his car, a man driving home, some people are a wedding, only adds pain and frustration to those people.

Yeah it was a mistake but the US has a long history of mistakes in situations where US involvment was questionable from the start.

Sometimes the best apology is to just say, "hey I fucked up really bad and I'm sorry" without trying to give some excuse.

This is just some snowflake bullshit.

Why people cooperate with Taliban there? Because Taliban has bearded murderers who don't mind chopping down half the village of the troublemakers the moment they squeal too much.

It's as simple as that. It's not some bullshit like "oooh US did not say they are sorry", nobody gives a fuck in them villages about what US says and does - they don't even bloody know anything aside from word of mouth passed down 500 people and preached by their local religious asshole. The only think they know is if they don't do as they are told - guys with Kalashnikovs will pay them a visit and they will end up in a ditch at best and in a ditch and their families raped in the ditch at worst.

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And it's not only villages - take Kabul for example, next day after Taliban took over - everyone flipped to their burqas, local clothing and started growing beards. No, it's not because they love Taliban, it's because they know if they stand out - they will get a butt of a rifle in their face or much much worse.

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And by the way... having some coroner say some bullshit about "US bad, everyone killed by US gunshots" when Taliban is all over the place has about as much worth as Taliban's Twitter charm offensive where they promise to be good guys, law and order no vengeance and other BS.

[PACOX]

This is just some snowflake bullshit.

Why people cooperate with Taliban there? Because Taliban has bearded murderers who don't mind chopping down half the village of the troublemakers the moment they squeal too much.

It's as simple as that. It's not some bullshit like "oooh US did not say they are sorry", nobody gives a fuck in them villages about what US says and does - they don't even bloody know anything aside from word of mouth passed down 500 people and preached by their local religious asshole. The only think they know is if they don't do as they are told - guys with Kalashnikovs will pay them a visit and they will end up in a ditch at best and in a ditch and their families raped in the ditch at worst.

- - - Updated - - -

And it's not only villages - take Kabul for example, next day after Taliban took over - everyone flipped to their burqas, local clothing and started growing beards. No, it's not because they love Taliban, it's because they know if they stand out - they will get a butt of a rifle in their face or much much worse.

- - - Updated - - -

And by the way... having some coroner say some bullshit about "US bad, everyone killed by US gunshots" when Taliban is all over the place has about as much worth as Taliban's Twitter charm offensive where they promise to be good guys, law and order no vengeance and other BS.

Cooperate is a heavy word and what what I was converying at all (also think you use the word snowflake wrong too because that would imply I'm offended by something). IDK when I see 'cooperate' I think one party is working with another to advance an agenda, achieve a goal, whatever, and thats not what I think or said what the Afghan people at doing. I they are neutral, complacent, generally apathetic for reasons I stated. People often say, "well why wont the Afghan people just fight back! Didn't the US help them enough???" without seeing things from an Afghans perspective.

You said it, no one in the villages gives a fuck. US, Taliban, whoever, their lives really don't change either way so why would they take up arms to 'fight the noble fight' thats sold on airways in the West? US shows up, they do what they do so they don't get shot. Taliban shows up, they do what they do so they don't get shot.

Afghans aren't just going to pick up the fight where the US left off for a number of reasons, getting caught in the crossfire while the US is pulling out is one of them. Telling them they should and passing judgement only agitates people and pushes them to say 'to hell with anything from that side". Learning about your neighbor getting shot one day then having a reporter shove a camera in your face the next asking why you're not fighting with the same people who shot them, mistake or otherwise, is enough to push a stressed out already apathetic person away.

[Shalcker]

As expected... dismiss anything that isn't spoon fed to you by CNN.

Multiple witnesses claiming same thing: don't count because they are not interviewed by western media. Even one in BBC interview doesn't count.

Guy working in morgue telling what he saw doesn't count. Probably because he's not from US military, so he can't tell difference between civilian and terrorist, also can't distinguish between people being killed by bullets and people receiving dose of freedom.

Clearly they don't count because Western media haven't told they should be trusted.

...and even then, dismissing it as being too trusting to random Taliban supporters is still an option.

Even Pentagon didn't deny it could have happened there.

[JohnBrown1917]

Fun fact, Taiwan isn't interested in those claims. They are a legacy of the civil war that they can't get rid of because China has said that getting rid of them is the same as declaring independence and will provoke an armed response.

So its obvious the civil war has just gone cold and not ended yet.

[Mihalik]

Its hardly a stereotype, act like a war monger get treated like one. Too anybody who is not naive(or profits from it) it is very obvious every single US war since WWII has been purely fought to project power and/or to profit its military industrial complex.

Every war in history has been fought to project power.

War is politics by other means. It's inherent to its very nature. And that included WW2.

Japan attacked the US because the US and its other colonial partners in the UK, Netherlands, France managed to build an economic containment ring in the Pacific and South East Asia around Japan.

The Japanese constantly painted themselves as "poor little Japan being hounded by the big bad western Imperialists"....while running the most brutal Empire in Asian history stretching from Korea to Mongolia and from Siberia to East Indies.

Not all power projection is inherently bad. Sometimes you have to project power to oppose someone much worse.

Japan, Nazi Germany, North Korea, Slobodan Milosevic, Boko Haram, ISIS etc.

Even if, sometimes the thing that you're opposing is a byproduct of your own foreign policy or imperial ambitions.

[JohnBrown1917]

Every war in history has been fought to project power.

War is politics by other means. It's inherent to its very nature. And that included WW2.

Japan attacked the US because the US and its other colonial partners in the UK, Netherlands, France managed to build an economic containment ring in the Pacific and South East Asia around Japan.

The Japanese constantly painted themselves as "poor little Japan being hounded by the big bad western Imperialists"....while running the most brutal Empire in Asian history stretching from Korea to Mongolia and from Siberia to East Indies.

Not all power projection is inherently bad. Sometimes you have to project power to oppose someone much worse.

Japan, Nazi Germany, North Korea, Slobodan Milosevic, Boko Haram, ISIS etc.

Even if, sometimes the thing that you're opposing is a byproduct of your own foreign policy or imperial ambitions.

Which somehow never involves the US, strange huh? US purely uses its power projection to generate more profits for its elites.
Unless we are also now going to justify the Chinese invasion of Tibet because it got of a slave state.



It is still imperialism(or colonialism), and Afghanistan or Iraq did not benefit from the US invading them. It goes against everything your avatar stands for.

[Mihalik]

Which somehow never involves the US, strange huh? US purely uses its power projection to generate more profits for its elites.
Unless we are also now going to justify the Chinese invasion of Tibet because it got of a slave state.



It is still imperialism(or colonialism), and Afghanistan or Iraq did not benefit from the US invading them. It goes against everything your avatar stands for.

That's not what I said. I'm pointing out that reality is more complicated than the binary you reduced it to.

You said everything the US has done since WW2 was bad.

The thing is you yourself seem to understand that there is such a thing as a greater evil, which is why you gave the US a free pass for its involvement in WW2. Despite the fact that on a geopolitical scale, the US wasn't really a white knight back then either. It just that the opposition was so fucking horrible that they managed to make everyone from the US, through the British Empire to Joseph Stalin to seem like the fucking good guys.

The US benefitted massively from both WW1 and WW2. In the span of those 2 world wars it went from a second rate power to a great power to superpower. The super power.

But that doesn't change the fact that the Nazis needed killing, Imperial Japan needed killing.

And despite the epic fucking failures of this War on Terror bullshit, there are still people in the world that need killing. Osamas, Abu Bakrs, and company. They are monsters of our making, but they are still monsters.

For the Kurdish villager or Iraqi woman forced into sex slavery it doesn't really matter why the US chooses to bomb ISIS. What matters is that does.

It's really more complicated than just saying "American power projection bad".

[Easo]

Taliban doing more taliban things:

Stay home, female Kabul government workers told

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58614113

I fucking love their excuses that they need to ensure security of women, as if they weren't secure before, also - how to get accustomed to them. It basically means Taliban members are incapable of dealing with the opposite sex. Truly fascinating from a morbid point of view.

So its obvious the civil war has just gone cold and not ended yet.

Gotta be the strangest civil war ever, considering how many factories on mainland are Taiwanese, or how many tourists go from mainland to Taiwan.
There is no peace deal between Japan and Russia too. Should we assume WW2 did not end yet? xD

But that doesn't change the fact that the Nazis needed killing, Imperial Japan needed killing.

And despite the epic fucking failures of this War on Terror bullshit, there are still people in the world that need killing. Osamas, Abu Bakrs, and company. They are monsters of our making, but they are still monsters.

For the Kurdish villager or Iraqi woman forced into sex slavery it doesn't really matter why the US chooses to bomb ISIS. What matters is that does.

Careful now, calling for deaths is a no no on this forum. Even such "people" as ISIS.

[jonnysensible]

watching talibs getting ganked by insurgents is poetic justice.

the poverty level is skyrocketing and aid is being cut. Pretty cruel stuff.

[Orange Joe]

Well, I guess you have a bias.

I don't know. As an American myself I don't feel he is too far off the mark.

[Fugus]

Funny how CNN is seen by them as some big liar and pusher of false information when their stuff has a legal obligation to be honest in most of the stuff they push as they are news anchors and shows while Fox and OAN and the likes are the honest ones with no legal obligation for honesty using Commentators and the likes and who have even argued in court that they aren't news and have no obligation to be honest.

Kinda reminds me of a friend of mine, he ignores the CDC and official numbers on the virus because a friend of his works at a hospital and told him that the majority of the cases they have are from vaccinated people. Turns out, the friend he was listening to was the wife of the guy who told me that "Science goes against god" to defend his views, had zero issue desecrated the death of Cannon Hinton in an attempt to devalue the death of Floyd who died of completely dissimilar circumstances, and talked about Democrats and pedophiles while he cheered a potential serial rapist being put on the supreme court.

Ignoring facts, doesn't make them stop being facts, just makes you less prepared when the consequences of ignoring them come due, or just leaves a bigger mess for your children from where you just fucked up and lied to yourself about it.

Listening to people who have no requirement for honesty and have been sued for lying, doesn't make you informed, it makes you ignorant and gullible.

If you want to actually be informed, listened to people who have a history of honesty (Which basically takes out most conservative sources), even the places that are honest, you have to take into account the bias you are getting from them and need to double check on other sources (With histories of honesty) to see if they ignored any important information with their coverage.

But looking at Fox, NewsMax, or OANN and thinking you are informed is just pure stupid.

[Machismo]

Actually it is even worse. In that Kabul attack, according to witnesses, many a lot of casualties were caused by US military shooting in panic left and right, not by explosion.

US is the biggest terrorist organization in the world right now.

Can you back up this claim?