If the buck is passed to FFXIV...

[ati87]

Just compare the playerbase's different reactions to cash shops. While yes, there is a demographic difference between WoW's fandom and FFXIV's, I think WoW's fandom is more vocal about the cash shop because it is yet another bad on a huge stinking pile of bad. There are so many things Blizzard is doing wrong that when a new cash shop or 6 month sub mount is announced, for many people it's the straw that broke the camel's back. Whereas Square Enix does not antagonize their customers on anywhere near the same level Blizzard does, so when new cash shop stuff is added, it irks some people but they are overall having a pleasant time with FFXIV so it's not a dealbreaker.

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This. FFXIV could be so much more than it is, but it's not actively antagonizing like WoW is.



I've seen people throw the phrase "competition will improve the game!" around a lot, but I'm personally not seeing it. Other games have been putting WoW to shame in various departments for years now, but Blizzard has never gotten off their ass and implemented their own versions to compete. For instance, so many other MMOs have housing systems and yet WoW never bothered. We'll see if 10.0 is the wakeup call but I doubt it.



This is not the same situation. These are completely different circumstances.

First, WoW is no longer the king it used to be. People checked out Warhammer and Wildstar and SWTOR and Rift for a time, but those games weren't as good as WoW. WoW had 12 million subscribers for a reason. And there is a reason why WoW barely has 2 million subscribers or less today. To say that WoW is just as appealing to people today as it was 10 years ago is denial.

Second, FFXIV is not a new MMO launching. FFXIV has been out for several years. FFXIV's recent rise in popularity is not people getting hyped for a fad, but people waking up and realizing that there is a good alternative replacement. If WoW was still good enough to have 12 million subscribers and FFXIV was launching today, it'd just be the same story as all of the other supposed "WoW killers" that came before. Clearly that is not the case.

WoW has allot less players today then 15 years ago because it's a game that's been that's been released in Nov 2004. At some point people will move on.
FF on the other hand is the FOTM of the month because you have bunch of Twitch streamers playing the game and suddenly a entire new group of people decides to play it. Every few months you have a game like this from Valheim to something else.

[potis]

Legit question without trying to start an argument.

What exactly do you expect from something that you played for 5-10-15 years, vs a new storyline, especially with the mentality "I MUST PUNISH BLIZZARD AND PLAY SOMETHING ELSE".

What did you expect from a game thats literally 99% about a passive storyline, if thats what you are looking for?

And now a post from some magical 1st place award thats gonna "Carry on the legacy", wat?

You do know you can play other games and the whole gaming world of 2015 and after is literally how WoW has changed right? Small intervals of gameplay for 30m-1hr and you arent supposed to play 10 hours a day because everything is slowed down by irrelevant things like it was back in 2005?

Basically my question is, why do some of you need a mental confirmation that you are doing the right thing instead of simply playing whatever fills your needs for the month?

[Raven]

And we're getting less content each expansion in FF :S

Depends, do we count everything new which is added as content or just the stuff people like.

[Swnem]

You make it sound like a sickness, I've been conditioned by nothing. Some people want stuff to do in an MMO, FF14 has an abundance until you're caught up and then there is little to do. The devs have said this many times in the past. It's a fantastic game for what it is,but you just haven't played long enough if you truly believe there is a lot to do once all the mandatory stuff is done.

It is. You are saying that you need to log in every day for no reason but to do an ephemeral task that will lose it's meaning next patch or expansion. That is not content. That is conditioning.

I have all jobs at 80. I have everything unlocked. I still have plenty to do.
Tell me, have you gotten all relic weapons on all jobs? The crafting sky tools? Collected all the cards, all the minions, all the mounts? Cleared all the ultimates?
Sure, if i had played since the game came out constantly, perhaps i would have ran out of things to do. I've been playing pretty much everyday since ShB came out and i still got plenty to do. But, again that is not a bad thing. It's just a reward for my time. The game is not forcing me to do these things. But there are things for me to do if i want to.

[Dracullus]

FFXIV shows that there are other aspects to an mmoRPG that WoW is woefully lacking. I personally think that both games tend to complement one another. Some people will want to go back to farm the latest wow stuff, some will want to do stuff in FFXIV after everything settles. Neither game is perfect, and some people realizing that the same is true for WoW is alreaey a win for gaming in my book.

I don't get what this "FF is so much better" came from. Lot of people get burned out by WoW, lot of people are trying new thing that has ton of unexplored content. Question is what will happen where this coat of fresh pain will wear off. Let's say you completed everything like you did in WoW... what is so much better in FF14 now when you play from patch to patch?

And obviously WoW lacks in many aspects, nothing is perfect. Personally I think ESO fills holes from WoW even better, with B2P system, horizontal progression (doesn't mean I don't like vertical progression in WoW - you just can't have both), more action combat system, housing.

[Shillu]

And we're getting less content each expansion in FF :S

You have to remember the Covid Pandemic is still pretty rampant in japan, which will be affecting work speed among other things I'm not trying to defend anything here I just feel both blizzard and SE should be cut alittle bit a slack on the content release schedule for these expansions.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

You have to remember the Covid Pandemic is still pretty rampant in japan, which will be affecting work speed among other things I'm not trying to defend anything here I just feel both blizzard and SE should be cut alittle bit a slack on the content release schedule for these expansions.

Content cuts were clear before the pandemic even happened.

[Shillu]

Content cuts were clear before the pandemic even happened.

If you mean allied beast tribe quests / Hildibrand they were never intended to be in shadowbringers in the first place they even said as much as them self given how were on the first.

[Tyrannica]

Without most of its senior designers and how wow turned to a game that was wild fun into that clinic and controlled job-like routine that it is now its a far cry even to TBC Classic in terms of fun and this does not have anything to do with FFXIV. FFXIV is Final Fantasy first and MMORPG second and had as role model old wow classics including MoP that just happend to be a great game with content patches.

Today most of wow creators have founded their own studios, you certainly heard of dreamhaven, frost giant, bonefire, or joined riot. And it turns out that probably killed wow in the long term. It definately killed a possible Starcraft 3 instantly, when its core designers joined Frost Giant! When legion came out it wasn't as noticeable, but with BfA allready the game went downhill to what it once was pretty fast - and i might say, personally, i had MUCH more fun in BfA(turning warmode on doing faction assaults with alts, mythic raid and arena with main) than the really DULL and disconnected SL with its even worse story - not that the story in BfA was on par with ANY of the old FF titles i played back in the 90ies, but at least a faction war made a lot of sense in the "World of WARcraft" nowdays this game quickly turns into "World of Craft" As you see, any warlike rude or half naked stuff is going to be removed from the game due to reasions and factions probably will soon make love together.(censored of course, with flowers between them)

Wow killed itself. Its irreversible, too, because of what happend with blizzard, even if it didn go w...(you know the word) the senior designers are still gone and its showing. Senior game designers know one important thing - they know what it takes to make a game FUN. Something that fresh blood doesn't comprehend. Saw that in other games too. like the civilization, age of empire and C&C series, if certainy key developers with expierence aren't part the project the game probably isn't going to be fun and popular, despite its shinier graphics and more features. Another great example that comes to mind is Master of Orion 3.....some new studio tried to continue the great MoO2 and the result was a very unfun game hidden in checkboxes, with unnecessary real time combat and the tactical turn combat removed. Nobody liked it, and years later i am perhaps the only one speaking about it how bad it was.

FFXIV is just a miracle. It got a passionate game director that is why its good. Look at FFXIII and FFXV those are very mediocre FF games and latest installments in the main series, but done without Hironobu Sakaguchi his last FF game as game director was Final Fantasy X-2 and FFX is regarded as the last great final fantasy in the series, other than FFXIV, that had a rough start, but turned out good later.

I am sure, as long as Naoki Yoshida is game director of FFXIV it will do well, once he is out that game will be in jeopardy as wow, too.

Look at D3, most people think its worse than D2 - why? D3 wasn't developed by David Brevik or anyone else from Blizzard North.

Its a recurring theme throughout the history of game franchises, if the developers that made the games good leave the franchise it chances are it will turn to dust. Another perfect example are the Heroes of might and magic series, 5 did still well despite developed in the east and NWC going disfunct, but 6 and 7 are not well-received. In Homm terms SL-WoW is n the Homm7 phase.

[Rappy28]

the same gamers who complained about WoW are going to complain about Final Fantasy, right?

It depends, both games are different and cater to different people. FFXIV is obviously more on the casual solo and non-combat side while WoW has more competitive PVE and PVP content. Certainly as a solo queue player myself, I don't have the same complaints about FFXIV as I do about modern WoW...

What I wonder about though is all the "WoW refugees" who jumped ship this summer. If you managed to stick with WoW for so long, then surely you did and enjoyed at least M+? Enjoyable PVP? Neither of which FFXIV has. I don't think these people, once they're up to date with FFXIV, will be totally onboard with FFXIV's endgame and gearing system which is, by and large, a replica of ICC-era WoW (farming currency by AOEing and facerolling you way through dungeons) and MoP (LFR being a decent source of loot and Valor points, "legendary" questline is a long grindfest but can be done through purely casual content). Of course these were the best eras of WoW as far as I'm concerned.

If the WoW refugees that joined aren't the type that enjoys this content, then I foresee them only caring about new FFXIV Savage raid tiers/Ultimates and unsubscribing in-between.

[ati87]

I don't get what this "FF is so much better" came from. Lot of people get burned out by WoW, lot of people are trying new thing that has ton of unexplored content. Question is what will happen where this coat of fresh pain will wear off. Let's say you completed everything like you did in WoW... what is so much better in FF14 now when you play from patch to patch?

And obviously WoW lacks in many aspects, nothing is perfect. Personally I think ESO fills holes from WoW even better, with B2P system, horizontal progression (doesn't mean I don't like vertical progression in WoW - you just can't have both), more action combat system, housing.

Simple, some people on Twitch played FF and not other people play it because of the "hype" that followed.
Every few months there is a FOTM game that becomes populaire
https://steamcharts.com/app/892970#All (don't really trust the peak of this month)
https://steamcharts.com/app/945360
And now it's FF turn
https://steamcharts.com/app/39210

FF won't last really because the MMO market has always been a niche market and the 12M players of WoW was a historic outlier where on avg having between 1M to 2M active paying subs has been considered a success.

[Darththeo]

MMORPG market is just like the RTS market on its way out

Except it isn't. Neither is the RTS.

The market isn't what it was 20 years ago or even 10 years ago.

It is evolving.

[Shillu]

Simple, some people on Twitch played FF and not other people play it because of the "hype" that followed.
Every few months there is a FOTM game that becomes populaire
https://steamcharts.com/app/892970#All (don't really trust the peak of this month)
https://steamcharts.com/app/945360
And now it's FF turn
https://steamcharts.com/app/39210

FF won't last really because the MMO market has always been a niche market and the 12M players of WoW was a historic outlier where on avg having between 1M to 2M active paying subs has been considered a success.

FF won't last? Your talking about it as if it's a new game it's been out since 2013 In my book it already has lasted, thats a good 8 years and I'm sure it'll have another 8 years if FFXI is anything to go by.

Also about 3-5% play via steam client rest play via SE client.

[Nzx]

nor do they employee predatory frat-boys who harass their female co-workers.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Perscilal...66071811981315

Nah, you just don't pay attention because Blizzard bad, Square Enix good.

[Jtbrig7390]

FF on the other hand is the FOTM of the month.

How is a MMO that is nearly 10 years old a FOTM lol. Before the Activision-Blizzard stuff FF14 was already growing and and just got a big expansion announcement.

I don't think you quote know what FOTM is.

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FF won't last really because the MMO market has always been a niche market.

And yet its been around nearly 10 years.

Also using steam to judge FF14 is dumb because 98% of the playerbase plays the official client download.

[Dracullus]

FF won't last really because the MMO market has always been a niche market and the 12M players of WoW was a historic outlier where on avg having between 1M to 2M active paying subs has been considered a success.

Personally I think WoW playerbase was always ~5M after Vanilla and amount of people staying in game are similar to people quiting pernamently. 10-12M are either launch people (expacs from MoP onwards) and massive waves of people trying game first time during early WoW (between 2005 and 2013 ~100M accounts were created, while total number of subs at same time never went past 12M).

And huge FF hype (to be honest I hear about it a lot less after scandal, cause many people used FF just to bash Blizzard and they got much better weapon in July) won't last forever, but FF and ESO both have established playerbases and it's clear they both won't fade away like Wildstar or become more niche game like SWTOR. MMORPG players have choices and that's a good thing.

Also yeah, twitch is really focused on either FOTM, quick match PVP games or just personalities at this point. MMORPG have no place here beside launches or big competitions. WoW daily numbers were fake for years, cause big % of them was just guy who watch youtube about WoW and is popular for some reason.

[sam86]

Not that I have any doubts about the game's quality or the developers' integrity, but that doesn't change the fact that the same gamers who complained about WoW are going to complain about Final Fantasy, right?

wrong..
if u going to FF to find a 'better wow', u won't, it is a different game
this is like playing SF and complain about Tekken isn't SF, both are fighting games, but each is towards a different target, while SF is far more successful, Tekken isn't bad at all
If ppl complain about how FF isn't WoW, it isn't FF fault

[Al Gorefiend]

Final fantasy does not appeal to me. Never has, never will.

[Shillu]

Final fantasy does not appeal to me. Never has, never will.

Which is fine in it's self there both different games and there overall audiences tend to want different things out of the 2 games for me FFXIV is the more socially accessible content via hunt trains-old content (synced) gold saucer ect where as wow was more of the fast paced endgame where it was raiding or nothing which isn't wrong as that's what the people that play the game tend to want both games have pros and cons and both games will be around for many years to come it doesn't matter which you play hell you can play both so long as you as a person enjoy what your doing then it's irrelevant what others think of the game.

Personally I play and enjoy FFXIV for what it is a JRPG with MMO elements I collect glamor and mounts, craft and overall just enjoy the game but that's not to say it doesn't have it's faults If I could change one thing in FFXIV I would ask for savage 4 man's.

[Swnem]

Final fantasy does not appeal to me. Never has, never will.

This is the honest answer i can support.

I live with someone who plays WoW as well and FF is just not for them even though i love it. They don't stand around there inventing reasons why FF sucks or WoW is better. They know WoW is a worse game. They see me playing FF and they know. But, FF just doesn't appeal to them.
For example, New world doesn't appeal to me. It's not that i think it's bad. It's just not for me.

That level of honesty is commendable. I applaud you.

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Btw i'm not sure i adressed the OP.

That is copium talking.

As long as the game is good, it will get players support. It's that simple. It wasn't players complaining things weren't good that ruined WoW. The devs ruined WoW. It is very much a different situation.